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Posted by: Arcady Dec 20th 2005, 11:50 PM

Season 2, Episode 16 - The Long Goodbye

Air Dates:
CA: Jan. 2, 8 PM (TMN)
US: Feb. 10, 9 PM (Sci Fi Channel)
UK: Feb. 15, 8 PM (Sky One)

Alien combatants look to settle an ancient score by using Weir and Sheppard as pawns.

http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s2.shtml#216 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=13318 | http://www.sg1archive.com/teasers/a216.html

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jan 2nd 2006, 8:54 PM

This was a good episode. Was not based on any previous SG-1 episodes which is where the series seems to have drawn most of its ideals lately so that was a nice ideal.

It did not turn out how I thought either so it was good.
Nice to see Weir take on and kick 5 SF in the ass. Caldwell seems to have come back from his little episode with the Goa'uld well. His ego seems to have been knocked down a peg or two as well. Nice. He is a bit short sighted and cannot see two many steps in the future. I guess that is in keeping with his character.

Teyla is looking good. Both physically and with her character. Getting more depth. I believe she was about to kill Shep. Though, I thought she would have just hit a nonvital area than let Beckett fix him. Than there is poor Ronan. Poor, poor Ronan. What else can I say. Such a big strong man to be shot like that by Weir. Oh well. Not much else to say. It was a good episode.

Posted by: Radagast Jan 2nd 2006, 10:01 PM

I thought this was a pretty good episode. The one big problem I have is this: Stargate has a huge history of people getting taken over in various ways by various things. Why was it not already standard procedure in any such case that their command codes were not already deactivated?

Especially after already encountering such a problem so recently.

Ronan only got shot because he was told (and believed) that Weir was not in the room.

Also they might want to think about some Kevlar or something around important consoles (like where the ZPM is!) they keep getting shot up...

Posted by: rkenshin Jan 3rd 2006, 2:47 AM

Great ep.. Always nice to see bullets flying..

Of course I'm imagining McKay being possessed by the guy and taking down a crapload of marines.. Now that would've made my day..

Or maybe even Beckett, hehe ^_-

Posted by: Carter-Hot Jan 3rd 2006, 12:18 PM

I enjoyed this episode. It was exciting, packed with suspense, love and hatred, comedy (from Beckett). Truly a classical tale.

This has got to be the best Weir & Sheppard episode so far Higginson performed fantastically - she opened a big can of whoop ass!


9/10

Favorite bits --



- Ooh... lol




- The realization of the "kiss", poor embarassed Weir




- Go Weir! Go Weir!



- Bound and busted! lol


Also, love the bit when Beckett says,

"Go get torches..."

*S.O looks confused*

"Flashlights!"

lol

Posted by: JaffaKree Jan 3rd 2006, 12:34 PM

I'm with you Radagast.

I'm kind of surprised that Caldwell was the only one to voice his disapproval with Sheppard taking on the new consciousness. Maybe it's just too hard for anyone else to say no to Dr. Weir.

Posted by: squall27 Jan 3rd 2006, 3:28 PM

It was a nice episode, when we don't have enemies at bay, we fight with each other
Two things though:
1. Radagast wrote

I forgot about this, but I wanted to ask wasn't there a procedure that requires that all major commands have to be approved (by codes) by two senior officers? I mean, "lockdown" and "release of halon" are "major" commands, aren't they?
2. The use of Halon Fire Suppression Systems for living quarters...I think they said (in the script) they have it installed just to give "Weir" something to threat, something to convince them to do her way...I know that this kind of system is not use (anymore) in spaces with people activities. Any thoughts on this?

Posted by: Cons Jan 3rd 2006, 3:51 PM

good episode in general, seeing weir take down those sf's was amazing.
i also thought that the bullet that got pulled out of ronan was just a fragment, and a P90 at that range would just go through someone leaving a nasty exit wound aswell.

dave

Posted by: Raxor Jan 3rd 2006, 6:35 PM

good ep, who wrote it this week, i didnt bother to check

***

Posted by: rkenshin Jan 3rd 2006, 8:40 PM

Written by Damian Kindler

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jan 3rd 2006, 9:04 PM

I agree with the minor plot holes:

1. The Halon fire suppression system. Ah, no! They are surrounded by water and they install a life snuffing system? Why bother, it would kill the persons the fire suppression system is suppose to save!

2. The security codes for Weir should have immediately been locked out as soon as they knew she was compromised

3. Sheps codes should have been locked out before they let him be occupied.

4. Ronan would have been WAY more injured and from the location of the shot maybe a bladder injury, bowel resection would have been needed with possible a colostomy bag being applied, and maybe a spinal injury as well.

However, all those aside I thought it was an excellent episode. Really enjoyed it and and did not feel bored like that last episode!

Posted by: Painkiller Jan 4th 2006, 2:17 AM

Sorry to ask this here, but does anyone know why this episode didn't come out on torrent websites ? Its already been 2 days and i can't find it. I live in new zealand so this the only way i get to see stargate.

Posted by: Cha'Lok Jan 4th 2006, 3:08 AM

About the Halon; I don't think they were installed in the living quarters but Weir connected the Halon system to lifesupport so I guess it would spread through airconditioning ducts or something like that.

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Jan 4th 2006, 3:23 AM

Well, water doesn't nessicarily snuff out all fires (ie electrical) so it makes sense to have some other form of fire-retardent system.

But I totally agree on the command-code thingy. Still, this episode was fairly well written, and acted I must say. I was impressed :)

Now its only a few more days until BSG and new SG-1!


If I were you, I would avoid that sort of question here. The whole downloading thing is sort of looked down upon on this site.

Posted by: Atlantians Jan 4th 2006, 3:25 AM

Radagast! The Brown!!

You did not leave with Gandalf?

What do you think about your bud Sarumen getting knifed?!!!



Anyway: I hope to see this episode soon.(blasted Sci-Fi channel and their annoying waiting period.)

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Jan 4th 2006, 3:34 AM

congrats?

I'm confused as to the point of this post ... I feel it would be better suited as a PM

Posted by: Ilzy Jan 4th 2006, 4:38 AM

The few plot holes ignored (yes, the code system was odd, two people should be needed to give the commands) this episode was really good.

At first it seemed that we'll get lots of sentiment: Shep and Weir calling each other 'hopeless romantic', talks about the last farewell kiss... and then it all suddenly changed and the episode took an unpredictable turn. The acting was really good, I especially liked the nice interplay between Shep and Weir, the way Ronan and Teyla (!!!) acted out their loyalities, and why hasn't anyone mentioned the wonderful fights between col. Coldwell and McKay yet?

This really is a 9/10 episode, another one in the row that made me like Atlantis more than I did before. And yes, I forgot to mention some other humour bits - the story of TV and the look on Weir's face at the very end

Posted by: samandjackforever Jan 4th 2006, 5:21 AM

hey guys, what hapepned with the kiss between Sheppard & Weir? i live in the UK and won't get to see this episode for ages! Why did they kiss? I can't wait to see this episode, for the kiss alone, he he!

Posted by: TH0r's_Hammer Jan 4th 2006, 5:39 AM

They ware taken over by two aliens which ware husband and wife, but also enemies.

So this was like a last goodbye kiss, before they started killing each other.

Posted by: samandjackforever Jan 4th 2006, 5:57 AM

aww crap i thought it would be something like that! oh well, maybe now it could promt them to get together.... he he!

Posted by: Ilzy Jan 4th 2006, 5:59 AM

They weren't married! That was just what the woman who was embodied in Weir said to make them revive the other guy! She claimed that it's her husband and that she just wants to say goodbye to him before she fades away forever but as it turned out the guy was her deadliest enemy. They were both the last people of two planets who had fought each other til death and all the woman wanted was to be the last one standing so her planet would be the winner. The kiss was just a distraction and the guy in Shep was too surprised to even respond to the kiss.

Posted by: Wolverine PL Jan 4th 2006, 3:43 PM

That was worst episode.
Ronan was fired but got only one bullet.
And why Coldwell didnt contacted with Dedalus and use transport beam to catch Weir and Sheppard.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jan 4th 2006, 7:02 PM

They tried to contact the Big D! However, they could not.

Posted by: Shepweir_Shipper Jan 5th 2006, 2:10 AM

I really loved this episode. I think it my be my favorite one this season so far.

Weir kicking totally butt in this episoded was awesome . I've been waiting for them to do something that would allow Torri to do something out of the norm for Weir. It was refreshing to see Weir not her normal composed self. There's just something about her.. I mean when phebus(spelling?) was supposedly letting her talk, you can tell it was an act.

I wasn't that happy with Sheppard's part in this. Thalan(again spelling?) played just like Sheppard, I could understand why Ronan would really think it was Sheppard. The only thing Thalan did different then Shep was run away from a fight.

And about them doing something about Weir's Command Codes, I totally agree with everyone that should have been the first thing done. Nut Caldwell was incharge, what else can be said? Besides I think it was actualy Rodney that pointed it out to him that'd have been the first thing he (Rodeny) would have done if Caldwell had allowed him to take charge.

Posted by: Carter-Hot Jan 5th 2006, 9:58 AM

Possessed Sheppard took his P90 headed off to Power Room, incapacitated 2 marines, deactivated power and shot at the control panel where the ZPM was located. Not only did it cut off main power but it will buy more time for Sheppard to hunt Weir down, and also disrupt primary and secondary systems.

Hours later, McKay managed to get internal primary systems back online. Hence, they weren't able to contact the Daedalus.

Posted by: Ilzy Jan 5th 2006, 12:29 PM

What did you want? That Ronan gets killed? And is it so impossible that only one bullet hits a moving target?

Posted by: Zoidman Jan 5th 2006, 1:21 PM

Nowadays they use water mist systems, works kind of like sprinklers, but are more effective and doesn't damage the building as much.

In places they can't use water, they use INERGEN fire supression systems, which you can breathe in. We use it in the server rooms in the Joint Warfare Center mountain complex where I work.

Posted by: squall27 Jan 5th 2006, 2:27 PM

I want to make a correction to my original post, they didn't installed the Halon system in their quarters, but in their hazmat storage, and "dr Weir" found a way to link this system to the life support one...so, my (little) mistake

Posted by: Cons Jan 5th 2006, 3:57 PM

given that the P90 fire 15 rounds a second that one bullet would be followed by 3-4 more

Posted by: Atlantians Jan 5th 2006, 8:13 PM

It is very hard to hit a moving target.

Posted by: Nnahrino Jan 5th 2006, 9:14 PM

Yea i enjoyed the episode but only once i ignored the manyplot holes. The comedy aspect was a nice relief from the action but another plot hole was surely when Weir said something along the lines of "I want to take care of sheppard myself", surely that would raise some alarms with the Guards?

It was a nice plot twist having them at war with one another, really wasnt expecting that would like to see more of that kind of writing in future episodes.

But again, why didnt Ronan just take Sheppard back to the gate room, he said he was just trying to stay alive and surely they could of protected him?

Posted by: Carter-Hot Jan 6th 2006, 8:33 AM

Maybe in that surgery scene, Beckett actually removed3 other bullets but the last one was a little more difficult to locate.

Posted by: Sibylle Jan 6th 2006, 10:43 AM

My first idea was to shut out Sheppard and Weird from the computer and then do a lockdown, and use the scanners to see where they where.........

stupid episode, these should be the elite o the human race, well i could do better.

Posted by: GoodMorningCampers Jan 6th 2006, 2:54 PM

I found this episode really good for what it was, even though it had quite alot of technical gaps in it. The undeactivated codes, Ronan trusting Sheppard....all of these just seemed like they were blatantly needed for plot reasons, and had no real bearing on what would have acctually happend.
I thought Teyla did really well, and one of my favorite parts had to be when Weir was telling her to kill him. I really thought she was going to have to do it, but she most likely would have just shot him in an unfatal posistion and he would have played dead or something.

Posted by: dr lee Jan 6th 2006, 8:31 PM

i enjoyed this episode. Season two is turning out to be more exciting than season 1.

Thalen was too much like Sheppard for my liking, but it was cool to see wier kicking butt. Good acting on TH's part. Hardly anyones mentioned the second war so far. Mackay and Caldwell were at it hammer and tongs throughout the episode, The best bit being Mackays 'humph' at seeing Caldwell.

Did anyone else think that Caldwell showed a rather cruel sense of humour at the end by revealing 'the kiss'incident, i laughed at the reactions of the rest of the room and their uncomfortableness (is that a word??).

Posted by: Atlantians Jan 6th 2006, 10:39 PM

Three bullets would have killed him. The 5.56 x45mmNATO that most military arms today use functions similarly to the 5.7x28mm that the FN-P90 uses.

The bullets would shatter when they hit the body... one bullet could have killed Ronan easily.
Three from a P90 in the same area... he aint living unless they were very minor wounds.

Blood loss, tissue trauma, shock, ect ect ect would all easily have killed him.

Auntie Em could go into more detail because of her medical familiarity.

Posted by: Ilzy Jan 7th 2006, 5:06 AM

I wouldn't call it cruel... That's just his style of joking and suited the moment perfectly. Caldwell has the tough military guy persona, this joke was the only way he could have said anything about the kiss (and the end of episode just screamed that someone says it out loud ).

Posted by: kettricken Jan 7th 2006, 5:39 AM

forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but does anyone else have a problem with

also colour me stupid but where did the little stun guns come from? i remember the big wraith stunners but i dont remember the little ones

Posted by: Abra Jan 8th 2006, 1:56 PM

I'm surprised to read that so many people liked this episode. It was among the worst Stargate episodes. Then again, it might just be me. I'll keep watching SGA, but I have to steel myself to stand Weir's leadership style, and Sheppard's one liners (Jack O'Neill, he is not).

The main thing that bothered me about the episode is that they allowed their highest ranking officer be taken over by an alien entity. I'm quite happy to see some action between John and Elizabeth, but come on, have some common sense!

At least Carson got it right and the imprinting was only temporary. Now we can go back to John and Elizabeth's usual irrational decisions.

Posted by: cvvrede Jan 8th 2006, 2:28 PM

I believe they were married, it just wasn't going very well. Weir says somewhere: Is that any way to talk to your wife? But I guess that too can be interpreted two ways.



Actually, the P90 has a three-position rotary selector with which you can can fire one round each time.

I thought it was a very good episode, I think the neighbors heared me "woohoo" when "the kiss" occured.

Posted by: haikon Jan 8th 2006, 6:33 PM

This episode was pathetic. I mean again take overs. They are consttantly repeating themselves.
How about Ronan trusting Shepard. I mean how dumb can you get? He could at least have stunned him or something to make sure it was him.
Teyla is just plain boring, empty character. She's got a nice ass and all but she lacks character, substance.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jan 8th 2006, 7:16 PM

They were NOT married! Please. She said that so they would imprint someone so she could kill her sworn enemy. Did you even watch the episode?

Posted by: JaffaKree Jan 8th 2006, 9:20 PM

Wraith stun pistols were introduced at the beginning of this season. Ford also had one in the episode where he was holding McKay hostage. I think the Wraith stun rifles are ugly anyways, and this just brings the Atlantis team one step closer to using zats (which we all know they brought and hid away somewhere for a rainy day).

Posted by: linda_lol Jan 8th 2006, 10:01 PM

Holy crap, what is with all the negative feedback?

I liked this episode a lot. McKay was hilarious, especially with the scene with him and Carson. It was really good and I actually for once considered taping it. Anyway, I'm giving this episode a solid 9. I loved it.

Just wondering, is there an episode that you actually do like? I mean, it sounds like you hate the show altogether.

Posted by: Sibylle Jan 9th 2006, 3:22 AM

This episodes undermines the realistic side of the series, the side that the poducers try to hold on to.


Why oh why would the two highest ranking officers decide to let some alien control them with a technoligy they are not familair with.....
They didn't even deactivated there control over the whole city.... omg.....


Another thing that irritates me: these kind of problems are just to simple.......i mean come on everyone here on the forum could have handled the problem better than they did, if anyone would have let it come so far that is........



btw, they have beaming tch. on the deadulus, and nothing in atlantis....how come?
The first thing i would do is to install it there.......whole lot easier to explore the city of to arrest intruders.
And the very best thing about that is that stupid episodes like this on can be put into the intro of a good on....
(caused and solved within 2minutes...beam them into jail and wait)...

Posted by: tinydancer Jan 9th 2006, 3:40 AM

Why do so many people come on here and just bitch about the writing, characters and effects? I mean, if you are finding so much fault, why are you even bothering watching the show?

I enjoyed this episode. I thought Torri Higginson was very good and I like the natural dynamic between her and Joe Flannigan ... even though I am a Sheppard/Teyla shipper, I can admit she was cool in this episode. McKay was my favourite, though. He's so witty.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jan 9th 2006, 5:07 AM

Whoooow

Tiny this is episode discussion, not post your positive criticisms of the episode. If people do not like the episode they have every right to say so. Liking it is not a prerequisite of posting.

Posted by: Pitry Jan 9th 2006, 11:48 AM

T'was a lvoely episode. Silly, but lovely.

I think the Weir-alien and Sheppard-alien were married - she kept on referring to him as her husband even when she was hunting for him. Maybe they were married and then the war broke loose?

I don't have a problem with Ronan gfetting shot and Teyla staying well.. un-shot. First, Ronan needs to bed a tad bit more human. Going down (and actually, going down with less than a full cartridge) is more human than he was til now. Plus, it allowed for the "torches" comment. Ha! ;) (cheers Beckett in the background). Second, Ronan was taken by surprise, he wasn't expecting Weir there - or was also paying attention to Sheppard. Teyla had only Sheppard to look for.
Oh yeah, and "he screams like hell in my head!" that was a lovely comment.

Also, the episode really wasn't as predictable as it could have been. Yes, it was obvious from the moment Weir woke up she's setting them up, but the rest of the episode was a bit nicer. It was nice to see Evil Weir. I went back to liking her after getting annoyed with Critical Mass. ;)

Coldwell... they dwellt on the Goa'uld issue - which was fantastic, they usually don't with people who aren't show regulars. And McKay trying to get command! Ha! And TBH I wasn't expecting to see Coldwell again, I thought he was done after Critical Mass. Yay, he definitely adds to the show. Nice episode, all in all. As for plot holes... I'm not even gonna try and comment. There were many. Let's leave it at that.

Posted by: GoodMorningCampers Jan 9th 2006, 5:26 PM

Wow. Heated. Arn't forums fun? As for the they were married vs. they wernt, im going to have to agree with the latter. I think that when Weir was spouting out all of the " thats not a way to treat your wife" comments it was simply for ironic purposes only. Why would two people who are obivously from feuding communities get married? and they just blantently hate each other. In my opinion it was just as a brilliant sarcastic piece, that perhaps only they would acctually appreciate.
I liked this episode myself, not so much for the acctuall accurate stargate episode, but more for the comical, space filler type. Yea, there were some major gaps in the whole sci fi reality factor, but it was appealing from a different standpoint i think. maybe? no?
Also the pod thing, really reminded me of Lifeboat of season 7...did anyone else find them at least..relitively similar?

Posted by: Atlantians Jan 9th 2006, 7:13 PM

It has three selections on the switch: Safe, Semi-Auto, and Full-Auto.

In this episode it was set to Full-Auto. Ronan should have been hit more then once.
That bullet hit him in the dead center of his stomach... he mos likely would have been hit several more times.

And that bullet wound was a major wound. He should be dead. Or in need of a long recovery time.

PS: That bullet did not look right. It should have fragmented. It looked way to strait and pointy.

Posted by: Cindy Jan 9th 2006, 8:56 PM

First of all the Asgard installed the beaming tech on the Big D and It would be too much to ask them them to come to Atlantis to install them. I mean they could stuff up the systems and who knows block the team out of the mainframe completely. And if this episode got solved in two minutes what would be the point in that.

Big Shep/Weir shipper talking: Loved the kiss

Posted by: kettricken Jan 10th 2006, 7:59 AM

thanks sweetie, i had a feeling they had been in before and i just didn't remember, now i know why - i was too busy repressing Ford to retain the memory of them

as far as the episode goes, i liked it for the comedy value but there are several major flaws in the plot - firstly after dealing with the Goa'uld for so long, especially with cauldwell back as a timely reminder i can NOT believe they fell for the 'would you like to talk to Elizabeth' line, especially when it was blatantly obviouse when she started talking that it wasn't her

i also have a problem with Ronan trusting Shephard as someone else already mentioned - he's a very un-trusting person, no way would he be dumb enough to fall for that crap

thirdly i don't buy Teyla saving the day or them having enough faith in her abilities to actually send her off on her own and believe she could be of any use

fourth i don't think Ronan would have gotten shot so easily

and my main problem s WHY THE FRELL DID THAT DOOR NOT CRUSH HER HEAD???????? come on i wasn't the only one thinking 'just lie there a tiny bit longer' i know i wasn't

Posted by: haikon Jan 10th 2006, 8:04 AM

Don't get me wrong I like SGA. I just hate it when they waste episodes like that. I mean who cares about 2 members of 2 races we don't know anything about trying to kill each other. They have more then explored the possibility of taking over somebodies mind in season 2, so I think it's about time they think of something else.

I agree with you on McKay. It's him and Shepard that keep the comedy alive in the show otherwise it would
be preety boring if you ask me.

Posted by: kettricken Jan 10th 2006, 12:22 PM

i have to agree with you on that count, some of the recent episodes are becoming very repetetive, i dont understand it, there are some amazing writers working on the show you would think they would manage to think outside the box occasionally if they dont come up with some truely original ideas soon even the comedy value of the show won't be enough to keep it alive.

Posted by: linda_lol Jan 10th 2006, 8:19 PM

Ah, okay, I understand. Sorry, I was just really surprised and was up for a good discussion for the positive aspects of things. I knew that much of the conflict was simple, but I really didn't give much of a care for it. It's tv, tv does that all the time.

Yeah, I love McKay, this is the funniest I've seen him. And the comment about the chicks between him and Carson, priceless. I love McKay. Shepard is pretty good too with the whole "clown" thing. This episode kinda reminded me of Window of Opportunity. It wasn't much of a serious episode, even though this one was supposed to. But still, I find some similarities.

Posted by: MYOB Feb 10th 2006, 9:46 PM

Worst stargate episode EVER!
I was so totally beyond suspension of disbelief after watching Doctor Weir turn into the one and physically overcome all those wimpy male soldiers with just a few swings of her musclebound bodybuilder wrists I kept waiting for Keanu Reeves to pop out and talk about the Matrix.

What a complete waste of time.

My score -5 out of 10.

Fire the writers!

MYOB'
.

Posted by: PokeThePuddle Feb 10th 2006, 10:39 PM

funny episode... but where did weir get all that weapons and tactics training?

ok now imagine this episode except with cadman and mckay instead of weir and shep...

...
mckay: (fires wildly) EXPLOSIVES expert, eh!?
(more weapons exchange)
cadman: (fires) high temperature and energetic materials technologist you dim wit!
...
and so forth.. hehe
and for the coupe de grace:

cadman: hey rodney come **** (sleep with) me.
mckay: (smiles & suprised) really?
(mckay walk towards cadman)
(cadman smiles)
(they embrace)
(cadman breaks mckay's neck)
cadman: (at mckay's dead corpse) oh yea, my alternative was law school. (some female gesture)
SCENE ENDS

hehe

Posted by: linda_lol Feb 11th 2006, 1:48 AM

WTF, I did it again damn it! Agh, I keep posting the wrong reviews in the wrong episodes. I'm an idiot.

Well, I hope I'm posting in the right episode.

A posessed Shepard and Weir right? Kinda like Lifeboat? I liked this episode a lot, very funny, and tense. Wow, and what's with the tensities between McKay and the X-Goa'uld. They're always fighting, though, I love it. And as for the kiss, ah, I want more.

If the writers are reading then please, can we have more episodes like this? I'm craving them bad right now.

Posted by: Ziu Feb 11th 2006, 1:54 AM

Auntie Em, the plot about the aliens was a rip-off of one of the last episodes from the original Star Trek series.
I can't remember the title, but it was about the two half black half white aliens who fought for almost eternity while their planet had been destroyed.
The SGA only added the possesion to make it slightly different.

Posted by: Trudi~ Feb 11th 2006, 8:37 AM

Great episode! The writing was good, the acting was superb, especially on Torri's part. It was funny. and serious at the same time. Mckay fighting with Caldwell was great, I still don't like him, even without the gh'ould.


Sheppard did act a little too much like Sheppard, I guess it mainly was because unlike Weir, the alien possesing him wanted to make everyone believe that he was still Sheppard...Weir didn't care anymore, her alien had enough confidence to think she could take him out on her own. The end was funny, where Weir started to remember the things she had done, and said. And the kiss was great!


9/10

Posted by: Auntie Em! Feb 11th 2006, 9:07 AM

Oh yeah that is right. How could one forget the half white, half black men! Thanks Ziu!

Posted by: chasealpha1 Feb 11th 2006, 12:35 PM

Star Trek Did It! http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/series/DS9/episode/68118.html
First Season of Deep Space Nine, Kira and Sisko taken over by alien's and fighting each other. I hate these episodes that dont help with much character development or main story lines, filler episodes that are almost worse than watching a re-run.
As far as Ronan (sp?) the Military uses a full metal jacket, so the bullet would have passes through with out exploding or mushrooming like hunting rounds do, this is from the Genevia Convention I belive, so I can belive that he was still alive, maybe there was a fragment, but it wouldnt have exploded.

Posted by: PokeThePuddle Feb 11th 2006, 12:53 PM

but the p90s 5.7mm round was designed to not overpenetrate its target. That info was from p90 promo from FNh website, so it could be propaganda

Posted by: startreksuite Feb 11th 2006, 3:30 PM

Interesting, all the while I was thinking of another Classic Trek episode where Spock and Kirk were taken over by an entity, or STNG where Data, Worf, and O'Brien were taken over by an entity, and both episodes the entities took over the ship, if memory serves me well. I was thinking while watching the beginning of the episode, oh, a romance story, how different! But when they grabbed weapons and tried shooting at each other, I was thinking, how stupid! To come back to life in another's body just to kill someone else in a chamber! She could have just destroyed the chamber her enemy was in, and be done with it! Oh well, I hope next weeks is better!

Posted by: IndyJan Feb 11th 2006, 10:25 PM

I enjoyed this episode.

I enjoyed seeing Caldwell return and be a bit more humble. I can also see how both he and Mckay could appreciate what was happening with Weir and Sheppard.

First off, I knew as soon as they asked to speak to Weir, that was not Weir. This "Weir" was too peppy, too happy, too mushy. This was not the Weir that we have known. Thie was Phoebus interpretation of what Weir would be like. That was obvious to me.

Second, Phoebus and Thalan were not married. That was also quite obvious to me. They were enemies, plain and simple. Phoebus was being sarcastic when she was speaking of "her husband."

Does everyone remember the Star Trek Episode starring Frank Gorshin? The one about two people with half white and half black faces? The only difference was that their faces was colored different on each side. They were the last of their races, and one of them had to win. All of their people had been killed off. This was the same story, but the different take was the imprinting of their person onto someone else to finish the fighting. Both of their people were all dead, but one race had to win.

One thing that should have happened, and I have read the posts, both Weir's and Shep's access codes should have been locked out for everything on Atlantis as soon as they took off. They had already attacked Beckett, Mckay and Caldwell. that should have been enough for them to lockout their codes. Huge mistake by the writers. Maybe it will be a protocol now. I mean, once something like this happened on SG, a new protocol went into practice, Foothold, the Iris, IDC, etc. So maybe this mistake was done on purpose so that they will make some changes.

Posted by: Zenobia Feb 12th 2006, 9:53 PM

Hmm... I didn't think the kiss was that convincing actually. Maybe I'd have to watch it again. The kiss between McKay and Sam seemed way more intimate. I dunno. I guess I had the same reaction as Rodney: "huh".


You were definitely not the only one wishing she was out cold for just a little bit longer. You really think those doors could decaptiate? Though, this episode is probably the first one where she actually seems useful.

Aside from being somewhat of a "filler" story, I can see potential for new stories that feed off of this one in the future. Consider that the ailens were able to access all of Weir and Sheppard's knowledge, why should it not work in the reverse? Weir and Sheppard should now be uniquely aware of the civilization these feuding aliens came from and be able to mount an expedition to the planet they habitated to find out what happened and wether or not they still exist, or at least, if there is any technology they can salvage. Afterall, as a "living blackbox" you'd expect the possessed to get more out of the interaction than just an invader right?

Overall, I enjoyed this episode, but then, I've been enjoying all of season 2.

I loved the McKay/ Caldwell bickering. Caldwell talked down to Rodney, and he's not used to that treatment. And Caldwell reminding McKay that he didn't approve of the whole thing to begin with... Ah, it was funny.

Posted by: blackbelt83 Feb 12th 2006, 10:57 PM

I thought it was interesting that the person controlling Shepard used the term stalemate, they where supposed to be aliens then how did he know that term?

Posted by: Auntie Em! Feb 12th 2006, 11:06 PM

I think it is even more ironic that they knew how to speak and understand English yet you pick one word out of everything they said and are shocked!

It's the old everyone is speaking English question.

Who wants to spend the first 20 minutes of every episode learning how to understand each other.

Posted by: Parmenides Feb 15th 2006, 3:58 PM

Just because I'm lazy, and I'm a true cynic at heart, I'm going to rip-off glom (and essentially the Cynic) with a little bit of OF THE WEEK, just for the fun of it. You can tar and feather me later!

APATHY OF THE WEEK: So Ronon got shot, big woop. I found myself really not caring. His character is stereotyped and underdeveloped. Boo. Was it tension they were going for, because putting your lead characters in deadly situations week after week gets somewhat stale after a while, and not only because you know they're not actually going to die...

SLAPSTICK OF THE WEEK: Teyla's head almost getting crushed in the door! The look on her face, and the general situation made me laugh, though it did seem a bit out of place. Interesting how later on Sheppard was able to be propped between the doors quite nicely, without being crushed, though I suppose that could be explained away with saying the power was down...*rationalises*

NEW PROP OF THE WEEK: Where the frick did they get those fancy new phase-pistol doohickies? Are they Ancient?

EUNUCH OF THE WEEK: Caldwell - "I'm not going to tell you what to do." - here's an idea Caldwell: grow a freakin' pair! You're the commanding officer, and you're leaving the fate of Atlantis in the hands of an underling? Sure, it was probably supposed to show how difficult the situation was, and to perhaps add some humanity to Caldwell's character, but it didn't wash.

NAUSEA OF THE WEEK: Once again, we have the hideous panning/zooming shots between different sections of the city, like we saw in The Siege; at least they weren't flashed up on the screen every five seconds, like last time. Still, I felt my stomach turn...

(don't worry glom, this is just a one off, I'm not stealing your thang! )

That being said, I did enjoy the interaction between Not-Weir and Not-Sheppard - it was nice to see them in roles that were so different from their norms!

*flees*

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 15th 2006, 4:04 PM

I didnt overly enjoy this episode. I found it to be quite boring with barely any story. I actually preferred 'The Tower' over this episode.

Posted by: JC1 Feb 15th 2006, 4:21 PM

How stupid are the Atlantis team ? Why would they trust Weir when she was admitteldy under the control of an alien influence. And then to allow Shepard have the other alien conscienceness downloaded into him. Have they learned nothing from the SG mission reports? Really, I think the writers could have done a this a bit better.

And what happened to Shepard? He used to be a fairly intelligent person, with good judgement. Yet in the last 2 epsiodes alone he has displayed a disturbing lack of judgement and a surprising amount of trust in alien strangers.

Apart from that, the epsiode was alright. Shepard vs Weir battle had some action. Ronon got shot, for a change, and at least now we know what happened to Caldwell. I guess he wasn't orignally working for the Trust. It was intresting to see him in charge of Atlantis and having to fight Mckay for it. Although, I don't know why Mckay thought he'd be better in charge.

Posted by: puseyuk Feb 15th 2006, 4:31 PM

Hurray, another chance to get a sample of the lockdown alarm sound. This time I got a perfectly crystal clear copy of it that now loops at the correct interval. If anyone wants a copy, let me know.

Posted by: glom Feb 15th 2006, 4:33 PM

69% I think, once again the phrase "undeveloped ideas" applies and prevents this episode from rising any higher, missing out on a first and having to settle for a high 2:1, but there was a lot that was cool. Weir kicking some redshirt ass. Beckett showing us why he's a true hero of the expedition. Caldwell being the mostly sensible one. And we saw lots of the city.

FLIPFLOP OF THE WEEK: Atlantis is having a better second half season than SG1 in contrast to the first half season, where SG1 was the winner. Actually, while Atlantis is doing better than at the beginning of the season, it is in fact mostly due to SG1 that plummetted from a high point of the series to a serious low.

PORTSMOUTH OF THE WEEK: I know what Atlantis really was. It was a commercial space port, hence why most of the rooms in the city are loaded up with cargo and why there is little else of interest. Where are the cultural areas of the city? What did the Ancients do for entertainment? They could watch Christians being eaten in the amphitheatre for all I care, just make it something. What about sport? Where did they socialise? What of the arts? We're nearly two years into the series and we have no insight whatsoever into their culture, despite having seen live Ancients twice! Remember how rich with culture Tolkein made Middle-Earth. Come on Wright/Cooper. Do some work for your living. Those aliens from 'Scorched Earth' got more depth than this and they were an alien-of-the-week!

ATLANTIS UNINTELLIGENCE OF THE WEEK: The leader of expedition is already possessed. Don't compound things by willingly allowing the same thing to happen to the head of military operations.

ATLANTIS UNINTELLIGENCE OF THE WEEK RUNNER-UP: Why is it that whenever a dangerous criminal is being arrested, all the guard stand within slapping distance? Guns work at long ranges. Stand at the other side of the room.

TREKKISM OF THE WEEK: The all-seeing Big Brother computer. And how does fire suppressant for one section get rerouted to a completely different section simply by tapping buttons on a computer? To be fair, this was continuity from 'Critical Mass', but it was still bad.

BAD ENGINEERING OF THE WEEK: The control tower is a critical facility in the city. It should have its own power source that is independent of the rest of the city, including the all-seeing computer.

EVOCATION OF THE WEEK: At first, this episode reminded me of 'Return to Tomorrow' [TOS], with the bit about the husband and wife living on by inhabiting the bodies of our heros for a short time.

PREDICABILITY OF THE WEEK: I knew they'd be husband and wife, for the simple reason that there is no point is having the leading actor and actress not acting like themselves if they can't have a kiss.

UNDERDEVELOPMENT OF THE WEEK: It would have been nice to have more backstory to these people so they didn't just come across psychotic Brad & Angelina wannabes.

SHAKE IT OFF SPARKY OF THE WEEK: Caldwell is hard as nails. A couple of weeks after being possessed by a Goa'uld, he back on the job like nothing but a curiosity happened.

Posted by: Goa'uld Feb 15th 2006, 5:50 PM

The aliens got all of Sheppard's knowledge when he took over him, so he would know what that means. That's also how the alien in Weir got her command codes.

Posted by: blackbelt83 Feb 16th 2006, 3:57 AM

even knowing that you think they would use a term more comon to them. I dont know this ep. did nothing for me.

Posted by: Travellin_to_P2X-555 Mar 8th 2006, 1:51 AM

For me this was the alltime worst episode of Atlantis to date. There was potential, a lot of it, in the concept, and the old series trek episode that others have mentioned with the half black half white faces is a PERFECT example of the concept of a perpetual feud being well played because, as I recall, it was towards the end that we found out that their hatred stemmed simply from being opposite in appearance. That was a beautiful episode...

the long goodbye however was an episode in which, try as I might, I could not conceive of a single motive for not-weir or not-shep. I mean really, your consciousness is going to get another 6 hours of existence before you die... so you determine to kill the body the other conscious has landed in.

Weir and Shep are innocents, and NOTHING in your war will be effected or helped by killing them! The consciousness is your enemy and it has a time limit.

I almost wonder how different the episode would have been if each had set out to "persuade" others on atlantis to their side of the conflict, and tried to get our heroes to take up the battle... I can just picture not-Weir telling one and all that her enemy was full of people who tossed innocents to the wraith without hesitation!

And they had access to the Atlantis computers and never ONCE checked to see how their side was doing in the war. I mean really! It was mindless killing.

In the end the lack of motive for the actions that everything in the ep was a reaction to left me hating this ep.

Okay, rant over... I promise, just noticed that this peeve of mine hadn't been touched on much in this thread.

I do like Atlantis, a lot, and the Tower was a fun ep, a take on ren. england coming face to face with Ancient technology, and the gene being what sets the servants apart from the lords, it reminded me of what Stargate started out as... exploring how a culture from earth could have evolved under different pressures.

Oh, and I have to say that MacKay is the FUNNIEST character on the show... there are weeks I tune in just for him, which surprises me as I had originally thought he was a weak choice of someone from the original shows universe to be the one real carryover to the new series.

Posted by: I'm a janitor at the SGC 715 Mar 8th 2006, 2:05 AM

I can understand why some people thought this was a stupid episode, but I really enjoyed it. The back and forth between MacKay and Cadwell was funny. I love how MacKay wanted to be in charge I mean how scary is that. You know I first started out hating MacKay but somehow he has grown on me. I liked the placement of the music in this episode. I loved it when Beckett said "Well they're headed straight for divorce."
I love episodes where there is just 15min. of bordom and 45min. of action like this one was. I hate it when its 45min. of bordom and 15 min. of action like SG-1 Stronghold was.
Simply put this was a fun shoot em up episode.

Posted by: Aticus Mar 8th 2006, 8:20 PM

It was funny when McKay realized that this situation was close to the one he had
It was a little different though. They shouldn't have listened to that woman in the first place. They basically offered themselves to be guinea pigs in a science experiment

Posted by: Alley Mar 16th 2006, 5:07 PM

Dude i love the pictures and she did open up a can of whoop ass, i hope this brings them closer together

Posted by: Christy Mar 31st 2006, 8:29 AM

It was so fantastic to see Weir so active and it was good to see her in this light where the storyline is mostly around her and a situation which she forced into.
Sheppard was cute and everyone looked amazing in this episode and Weir...she looked so cute and Shep..well perfection as always.
I think the characters are becoming more itneresting and are working so well together that they now captivate the audience. The storylines are also being pieced together and we see so much culture and it was good to see Atlantis being used and seeing the battle which was going on inside the complex and it being between Shep and Weir.
It also paves the way for Romance...which i think a lot of shippers were looking for.
I wonder if the writers know which girl they want Shep to get with because at this stage he's going to breaking a lot of hearts! The little devil!

Something else i was going to say which i can't remember...*browses page*
Glom...they werent husband and wife.
If you actually watched the episode properly you'd actually listen to them saying how they were from different worlds, they were in a big battle both trying to alienate each other.
If they were husband and wife...wow someone either get them a marriage counsellor or suggest a divorce.

Posted by: blackbelt83 Apr 6th 2006, 1:40 AM

i think this ep had some good parts but I have to agree with travelin It was the worst ep. of atlantis it just dint tell us any thing new about the anciants or the pegesus galaxy or the wraith it dint itroduce any new charchters that effect atlantis it was just filler i think in its self it was ok but it gave nothing to the series, wich is why I was disapointed in it

Posted by: thefirstone Apr 11th 2006, 12:15 PM

I didn't really like this epi because its a pointless filler.

Posted by: kordone May 24th 2006, 12:06 PM

fillers sometimes can be very good episodes, eg Duet

Posted by: KillerMarv May 24th 2006, 12:18 PM

Duet was a very good filler...
As he said, this was a 'pointless filler', still a filler, but not such a good filler

Posted by: Dafmeister May 24th 2006, 1:18 PM

I think it depends on the way you look at it. In a way, it was a good episode because ti gave Weir some much needed screen time but then again, the episode was boring. The episode has it's good and bad points, unfortunately the bad points seem to considerably outnumber the good points.

Posted by: dr lee Jun 7th 2006, 8:06 PM

what this episode did was show us everyones reaction to Cauldwell returning after being de-Goa'ulded. had he just returned and nothing had been said then we'd all be in uproar.

though i don't think that they should have made a whole episode to do this in

Posted by: Gruber Jul 23rd 2006, 2:45 PM

What striked me is that they don't want to use lethal force but they run around with a p90 ???
Ok by now they have enough guns that can stun (from wraith) . Why didn't they use this it isn't lethal at all and they would be great for capturing people.

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 23rd 2006, 3:14 PM

The two people that took over their bodies did want to kill each other though. They were trying to use lethal force, they just didn't manage to hit each other. They were pilots on different sides in a war and each wanted to kill the other so their race would win the war.

Posted by: Gruber Jul 23rd 2006, 3:20 PM

I mean the security teams of atlantis they where running around with the p90 and there mission was to capture weir or sheppard