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Posted by: Arcady Jul 4th 2006, 6:35 PM

Episode 1 - No Man's Land Air Date: July 14, 2006 The team desperately attempts to stop two Wraith hive ships from reaching Earth. Sheppard must rely on an old foe to rescue McKay and Ronon. More info:  Episode Guide  Spoilers  Screencaps

Posted by: Linz Jul 14th 2006, 10:07 PM

Personally this whole stuff on the SGC with Weir made me want to fall asleep. I guess Beau Bridges needed some more screentime so they stuck him on Atlantis. They could have used that show time for much better scenes in my opinion. But then again, this episode felt pretty weak for Atlantis.

Another TBC... wonderful. *note the sarcasm*

Highlight was Ronan getting the "told you" face from Sheppard and McKay shooting a P-90.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 14th 2006, 10:09 PM

It was perhaps a little weak, but good battle, and its setting up for something better in upcoming eps. I seem to remember someone saying that there is no way they get a hive ship... you know who you are...

Why was the Orion so weak? And why didn't the drones split up like they normally do? I more I think about it, the more upset I get. The Orion's sheilds were crappier than the Deadelus. They lost it after one fight, after so much build up. This aspect was very disapointing, but the ep was still entertaining.

Posted by: rica0011 Jul 14th 2006, 10:25 PM

The sheilds weren't weaker they just didn't have everything working when they got into the fight. When they got to the fight they couldn't get the drones to work so they had to divert power from the sheilds to the drones and thats why the sheilds weren't up and it got blown up ... .... I am a bit sad though that we didn't have the ship for longer but I guess it's better this way because now things are back to a level playing field.

Posted by: Romestar Jul 14th 2006, 10:28 PM

I couldn't agree more.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 14th 2006, 10:30 PM

You're absolutly right, they did say that they had to divert power. I will have to pay close attention when I watch it again.

How is it a level playing field? We have one city and one ship (not ready to count the hive ship yet).

Posted by: SmashFX Jul 14th 2006, 10:30 PM

I have been a reader of this site starting when episode downloads were still available. I have never felt a need to post before, but there was something about this episode that was sloppy, it almost seems as if the writers overextended themselves between the two series.

1) We get it, Weir is a strong woman. She doesnt have to storm off, a little ass kissing would've helped her and required nothing. But, why doesn't she cover her own ass with the IOA by confronting them, and demanding a response, or at least saying, I'm going to do what I'm doing if you don't give me a response.

2) We get it, Teyla is a strong woman. Why in the hell would Weir give her the instructions instead of the next in command military officer?

3) How can the leader of any such base just simply walk through, knowing she will not be back in weeks. Considering there are no ships, and chaos on Atlantis, she just left without leaving much instructions. They don't know if she could have ever gotten back.

4.) Shouldn't Caldwell have kept a nuke in reserve?

EDIT - Addition: 5.) Considering the fact that Earth with the exception of a few drones is defenseless, wouldn't the Ori be considered the bigger threat? Shouldn't they have had both ships return to Earth? It seemed stupid to sacrifice the new ship, which considering its origins, might be able to stand toe-to-toe with the Ori?

The battles were cool, but watching this almost made me angry.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 14th 2006, 10:47 PM

2) Well, The top 4 people in command were gone, and Teyla is considered a leader. Similar to when Hammond Jack Sam and Daniel weren't around, people started taking orders from Teal'c.

3)I agree, but there wasn't much for her to do in this ep if she stayed on Atlantis... if you're paying her, you might as well make her act.

4) Why did Caldwell start off using the nukes in the first place... when did that ever work against their shields before.

5) Why does earth only have a few drones. Why didn't Atlantis gate a few thousand back to earth when there took them from the Tower?


**6) Why can the Orian launch drones without a chair, and yet they couldn't figure out a way to do it on Atlantis?

Posted by: Gate Jumper Jul 14th 2006, 11:00 PM

Caldwell was sending out nukes to take out Wraith Darts, they knew the ships would send them out and it was a way to take out a whole bunch of them.

Earth has a few drones b/c Oneill used the lot of them up whening defending Earth against Anubis. Atlantis didnt send any over from ones recovered from the Tower b/c they need them to defend the city, plus they most likely dont have a few thousand, maybe a few hundred which again they need.

The Orion doesnt need a chair b/c its a ship and its easier in the middle of a battle to push a button rather than have someone trying to concentrate on shooting off drones.

What do you mean they couldnt figure it out on Atlantis? the Drone storage on Atlantis is controlled by the chair platform so thats the only way to do it on Atlantis.

But yea good episode, out of both season premieres at least one enemy ship was destroyed! 1 out of 6(counting Ori and Wraith ships), we're good!

Posted by: SmashFX Jul 14th 2006, 11:08 PM

Surely, Earth has priority?

Posted by: Aquila Jul 14th 2006, 11:12 PM

If it weren't for the loss of Orion, this episode would have been a lot better, that just ruined it for me. Sheesh, you get an Ancient ship with all that capability and info that they could use to make other ships (hopefully they already downloaded the specs) and they blow it on its first run in how many thousands of years!?

With that exception, NO MAN'S LAND was pretty good, except for the 'to be continued' part.

Posted by: Ares Jul 14th 2006, 11:20 PM

That wouldn't happen in the real world. Teyla and Teal'c have no authority over military or civilian personnel. Just because the top 4(or whatever) people were gone doesn't mean Teyla(or Teal'c) all the sudden are the leaders. Then again, this is sci fi so whatever.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 14th 2006, 11:34 PM

Why would Nukes be required to take our darts when the air to air missles (not sure if they should worked in space) were working just fine. As a matter of fact, they were working better than fine... Sheppard did major damage with two missles.

Oneill used those drones before Atlantis was even discovered. I was asking why Atlantis didn't share when their drone stores were replenished. They do have thousands of drones. It is mentioned that the stores are replenished... they hold thousands. Caldwell says, "...the chair on earth controlled thousands of drones..." Mckay says that they were used up the first time around.

If it's easier to press a button on a ship, why wouldn't it be easier to push a button on Atlantis? I would assume that they wouldn't only be firing drone from Atlantis while they were in battle. (FYI, with vessels that large, the person or persons controlling the weapons usually don't have much else to concentrate on)

What I meant was that on Atlantis, they didn't even know how many drones they had, until they powered up the chair. Mckay even says, "there was no way to know until we got the chair powered up". The only way to fire the drones was from the chair. On the ship all they had to do was "push a button" as you put it. If the ship didn't require the chair, I think they sould have been able to figured out a way to control the drones from another console on atlantis. The chair actually controlled more aspects of the city besides the drones, and those other aspects have other control consoles. As a matter of fact, in The Tower, McKay just went into the drone storage room and pulled up the info on the control panel down there, despite the fact they there was also a chair that controlled the drones.



You're right it wouldn't have happen in the real world, but it's television. No one knows more about the enemy then Teyla or Teal'c respectively, and she they are the best leadership authority. Remember that Teyla is the leader of her people, and Teal'C was the first prime of Apophis. They have leadership ability, and once you start dropping down below the top four or so military ranks on the show you would have a bunch of poeple with the same rank probably arguing over who is in charge. So naturally the people with the knowledge and leadership experiance step in and take control.

Posted by: J&S4Ever Jul 14th 2006, 11:38 PM

1) She did tell them what she planned to do and that they were going to contact her when the ships were ready to go, if they wanted to countermand her orders they could do so at that time but if they did they would have to fire her first.

2) Teyla is they leader of her people and she is quite capable of making decisions. Besides, most of the senior military and scientific staff is onboard the Deadalus and Orion, so I'm guessing Teyla had stayed behind to help Weir in the capacity that she did.

3) It wasn't a request. It was an order from the CIVILIAN oversight committee and she is a CIVILIAN leader. Remember she told Landry that she "can't just leave." But Landry makes it clear that they are there to call her on the carpet and that she's going to listen to them whether she wants to or not. You can see it in her eyes and his expression when she says "understood." Although you're right and they should not have recalled her when there is clearly a need for her in Pegasus.

4) He could have, but what for? He thinks the battle is about to be lost and he doesn't realize that he's got help in the form of Shepard and Michael on the hive ship.

5) They know that the Orii will probably tackle the rest of the Galaxy before heading for Earth, since Earth is a much bigger threat. Once they have the rest of the Galaxy in line they won't even need their ships from whatever galaxy they are from to wage war on Earth.


I agree with Linz that the whole Oversight committee thing was not a good subplot for this episode. It's just stupid for them to remove the leader of a facility when there is clearly a crisis going on. I think TPTB just needed a filler subplot and could not think of a better one.

Overall, a OK beginning to the season. I wonder how they are going to get along in Pegasus when there will clearly not be any help from the Milky Way and now they have destroyed the Orion before they could even fix her up. Could there be another surprise discovery of Ancient warships in the horizon??? I believe so.

And Michael? Is he really accessing some vestige of humanity that remained after his conversion and if so, could this be the real weapon to use against the wraith. Don't slaughter them, but quite literally convert them to our point of view?

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 14th 2006, 11:48 PM

He decided to use all the war heads before he dropped out of Hyperspace... the battle wasn't lost yet, and it wouldn't have been lost later if he had that nuke to beam onboard.

Michael wasn't accessing any vestige of humanity. He was trying to stay alive. He knew that the queen was probably going to kill him. He said it himself.

Posted by: Natoma Jul 15th 2006, 12:27 AM

Wow. Lots of bitching and moaning and so much lack of understanding.

I thought this was a great start to season 3. SG-1 and Atlantis couldn't have kicked off any better imo.

Anyway,

Again, he had no way of knowing Sheppard, McKay, and Ronan were on board. He also had no way of knowing Michael would've disabled the beaming jamming technology to even allow that plan of action.

Caldwell made the right decision.

Posted by: tybert7 Jul 15th 2006, 3:19 AM

Level playing field my ass. This absolutely KILLED the episode for me. The SECOND they got the ancient ship semi running, they Lose it! This is BEYOND a letdown. To top it off it looks like they just lost the Daedelus in exchange for a wraith ship. I LIKE the daedelus. And now it is a rotting hulk.

I am disgusted, do you know how much I would have LOVED seeing them give the new ancient ship a test run, discovering the extent of its abilities, and the writers, they.... Butchers! Dream destroyers, buzz killers. I mean for gods sakes, WHAT do they think will be more interesting to watch

A. Hive Ship
B. Ancient Battleship


I guess in their world it's A!!!!!! Insanity. This is as bad as when the writers killed off the Tollans, and left us with mindless jafaa, bah!!!!!!!

On a side note, I was not exactly thrilled with look of the ancient ship when we got a full view of it. It was kind of ugly, the Daedelus looked better. When they find another ancient ship, and they had BETTER! I hope it is a different class, with better looks.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 15th 2006, 4:09 AM

My only comment about this episode is that it was a crossover, and they did not handle it well. I mean Weir was going to send Caldwell out there with the Odyssey, and they would probably die, along with Lorne and the Orion. Weir stated, we cannot allow the hive ships to reach Earth. Why didn't she say, "because they are fighting an invasion of their own of the Ori, they don't need someone else." Then once at the SGC, Landy seemed "ho-hum" about everything. Why didn't Landry mention the Ori to Weir once she was there. "This is why the president recalled you to answer because we are dealing with another enemy and we don't need the Wraith too." It would have made so much more sense.

They knew that this would be the season 3 opener and they decided to make it a crossover, so why didn't they handle it better? Why didn't they tie it in better to SG1? I know that they want Atlantis to stand on it's own, but then do not do crossovers at a very highly sensitive time on the other show.

I will say the battle scenes were good. I also loved Shep's one line about how he hid on the hive ship, "I hitched a ride, saw it in a movie one time."

Posted by: Christy Jul 15th 2006, 8:30 AM

Erm...Seriously though when did people on SG-1 take orders from Teal'c? at one stage they wanted to use him for experimentation.
But i guess Teyla has built up the respect from Weir and so they thought she could handle it...though other Military officers should have been more responsible than Teyla...but then again its not exactly a military base so yeah.

I don't mind the crossover eps...except each of them has lacked something...there's not a lot of passion in the eps.

But i for one am glad to see Atlantis back for another season.

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 15th 2006, 10:12 AM

There have been a number of occasions where we have seen soldiers at the SGC taking orders from Teal'c. While he's not a soldier he is given the status and respect of an NCO due to his position on SG-1 and expertise.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 15th 2006, 10:21 AM

Now didn't I say they would get their hands on a hive ship? I did, didn't I...

The episode had great positive points, but also had some negative points. I would say that Weir on Earth at that specific moment was not a good idea (1. I just hate the IOA; 2. She left teyla in charge... ).

Someone else also said that the Orion was going to get blown up in this episode, seems he was right. But did it look somehow to anyone else that the Orion had more than one shield? It looked that there were several shields surrounding key components of the ship. And to make matters worse, their shields looked as weak as the Ha'tak shields, how dissapointing; they would have had no chance against the Ori.

Hey, don't they have a limited time until those humans rebecome Wraith again?

Waiting for next week (not another three-parter)...

Posted by: jetsetter Jul 15th 2006, 10:35 AM

Some of the space battles are starting to remind me of the"Battlestar Galactica". Especially when the Daedalus fires all of its missiles and later when the Daedalus is firing into the Dart bays. This is not a bad thing however.

The Orion wouldn't have lasted long anyways. It was just too convenient. If it was not destroyed the ship would have most likely been repaired and then Atlantis would have had two full functioning ships.

Posted by: Romestar Jul 15th 2006, 10:45 AM

They also use a ton of lines from Star Wars, through out the series. Like how Shepard landed his ship on the side of the Wraith ship - the Falcon did that to a star destoryer in Star Wars - and Shepard even said "I saw that in a move."

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 15th 2006, 10:46 AM

Yes, but first when he did this, he said: "This is new."

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 15th 2006, 10:48 AM

Lack of understanding? Just because someone's opinion differs from your doesn't mean they don't understand. When someone thinks that way, intelligent people usually refer to them as ignorant.

What do you mean he had no way of knowing that they were onboard? It was part of their plan before they were betrayed for them to be on board. He may not have know if they free or alive, but he definitly knew that Mckay and Ronin were on one of those ships. Sheppard on the other hand is a different story. IMO Caldwell shouldn't have been depending on the getting through the shield. He had superior weaponry in the drones on Orion which were going to blow right through the shields. Now he did not know if Orion's drone firing capability was going to fail, but it seems like he wasted all of his nukes before Orion even got out of hyperspance.

Its not about him making the right or wrong decision... there was more than one possible course of action, some people are disagreeing with the course that he took. I would have waited on Orion. I mean, with the tech that they had, they disabled the wrait ship with rail gun fire? It seems a little anticlimatic to me. Usually the drones target multiple enemies at once, and the writers conveniantly forgot about this for the purpose of their story line. I think one drone could have disabled their hyperdrive, and that would have kept them from getting to earth. As a matter of fact, they only had to disable the hyperdrive of one ship because Shepard did half the work.

All that said, I still think it was a good episode. I was just so excited about the Aurora and they lost it, so then they teased me again with the Orion and now thats gone to. It leaves a sour taste in my mouth. Thats why I'm not counting the Wrait ship as part of their fleet. Its just like in SG1 how they never really got to keep any glider or Goauld ship they got their hands on. I guess I shouldn't be suprised.

Posted by: Revan Jul 15th 2006, 11:07 AM

Well I very much liked this episode.

1) Told ya so. I knew the Orion was going to get destroyed, it gave them too much of an advantage. The special effects were very good though. I really liked the drone weapons tearing the Hive to bits.

2) I liked Michael's part in this episode. And I see that Connor Trineer is back.


Why didn't the retrovirus affect the queen?

Posted by: jetsetter Jul 15th 2006, 11:38 AM

It's a give an take situation. Atlantis gives up the Orion and the Daedalus is damaged but a few Hives are destroyed and Atlantis gets a Hive.

Posted by: rkenshin Jul 15th 2006, 12:03 PM

Well he also had no way of knowing if Orion could fire a single shot once it exited hyperspace, so if he waited for it and that actually happened, they lost the element of surprise as the bulk of the darts would now be defending the closest hive ship..

And the rail gun fire directly at the dart bay when the darts were coming out, you've got to remember that would cause secondary explosions (from mid season 2 eps) so it wasn't just the Daedulus dealing all the damage, the wraith ended up helping them too

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 15th 2006, 12:13 PM

I understand that, my point was that the rail guns shouldn't have been able to penetrate the shields so easily, even without the cipher.

Posted by: rkenshin Jul 15th 2006, 12:19 PM

When did any Wraith ship have shields?

Everytime I see something (be it a ship or weapons fire) impact a hive, it actually hits the ship itself and not impacting some sort of barrier

Posted by: Natoma Jul 15th 2006, 12:32 PM

You can have a difference of opinion and I wouldn't say you don't understand. I'd say you have a difference of opinion. However, some of the things you and others have stated clearly show a lack of understanding.

See the next section as an example:



1) Wraith ships don't have shields.

2) If McKay and Ronan were eaten by the wraith, they wouldn't have been on board. They'd be dead.

3) Their objective was to stop the wraith ships by any means necessary.

What did Caldwell know?

1) The wraith ships would only be "resting" for another hour or so, and then they'd be unreachable until they got to earth. They had to be stopped by any means necessary. Again, their objective was to do as much damage as quickly as possible. The 15hr rest stop was an estimate, but for all they knew the wraith could've jumped to hyperspace as soon as they were detected. They needed to take them out immediately by all available force.

2) Loading every nuke onto the missiles was their best attempt to take out the hive ship as quickly as possible. Remember, they were not functioning at full capacity either and needed to make sure they used their element of suprise.

3) They had no way of knowing Sheppard would've attacked one of the hives and taken out its hyperdrive, thus leaving the wraith darts out in formation ready to absorb some of the fire.

4) He was gambling that the Orion would be able to fire its drones and take out the other hive, which it was indeed able to do. And even if the Orion couldn't fire, they could've set the Orion on a collision course with the other hive ship and taken it out that way.



1) Daedalus disabled the wraith ship by concentrating all of their railgun fire on the dart bays. And it still took a significant chunk of time for the dart bays to go up and cause the secondary explosions that disabled the ship.

2) The Orion didn't have nearly the # of drones that Atlantis or the Ancient Outpost had. They used some of their ordinance on taking out one of the ships.

However, if you recall, the Orion was trying to fire again and couldn't. They blew out their capability to fire in the first salvo. Had they had the capability to fire again they would have.



The Orion was barely functioning as it was. You expect miracles. Frankly I would've thought it completely unrealistic for them to have fully repaired the Orion in such a short amount of time.

Real world doesn't tie everything up in the neat bow you seem to have wanted it to be.

Posted by: Revan Jul 15th 2006, 1:50 PM

Wraith ships do not have shields. They use a form of interference to stop us locking on and beaming bombs aboard their ships.





The Orion had sustained too much damage to fire again. Their shields went down the moment they fired the drones. They had to divert power to weapons to fire, thus disabling their own shields.

They had over a month to repair that ship. They only reason it was not in 100% working order was their lack of knowledge.

This is a TV show, not reality. Things are done for the sake of storylines.

Posted by: Natoma Jul 15th 2006, 2:34 PM

I distinctly remember the conversation on the Orion between Major Lorne and Dr. Zelenka where Zelenka stated that they blew out their capability to fire again after the first salvo, and they couldn't raise shields anymore either. That's why they had to abandon ship.

Does someone have a link to a transcript?

Btw, where did you get the idea that they'd had the Orion for a month? Just curious.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 15th 2006, 3:47 PM

Here, Natoma, the conversation:

LORNE: Just one more shot, Zelenka, that's all I'm asking...
ZELENKA: I just cannot give you what I do not have.
...
ZELENKA: There's too much damage. We have to abandon ship.
LORNE: Hey, Doc! Listen to me...
ZELENKA: We've lost our shield capabilities with our first salvo. The ship is going to blow any moment, Major.

There isn't mentioned anywhere about losing fire capability, just shield capability.

Posted by: Natoma Jul 15th 2006, 3:51 PM

I remembered incorrectly then. Thanks for the transcript.

Posted by: ziostilon Jul 15th 2006, 4:04 PM

Correct me if i'm wrong. i remember that sheppard or somebody said they already got a month to get the Orion working. I think it was at the beginning of the season 2 finale- Allies.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 15th 2006, 4:39 PM

All I can say is YAWN! Oh please this is the best they could come up with? This!

BARF. This is why SG1 is going to out live SGA. The writing sucked. The story lines SUCKED!

People bitch and whine that Weir is weak and never makes a decision and so apparently the TPTB heard and responded. That is the only strong part of the show. Here we find out Weir does in fact have a set of steel balls inside her pants. About freakin time too. Good for her!

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 15th 2006, 5:09 PM

Well, Auntie, you're kind of right. It doesn't seem like one of Gero's best idea... Still it had some pretty well done visual effects. It seemed to me that everything happened just too fast. In only 10 minutes the Orion gets blown (not before it blows a hive), the Daedalus uses stupidly all their nukes, they lose their shield, they damage the hive, the are left without air, they transform the Wraith into humans, they kill the queen and take over the ship. This could have easily been stretched a bit more, it would have made much more sense as Michael proved to be the key of the episode.

Posted by: UltimateW Jul 15th 2006, 6:24 PM

I like this episode, though it seemed a bit slow. Good figthing and wondering what they will do with the wraith humans and was the Orion destoryed ? seems to me SGC is loosing ships left and right atm.

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 15th 2006, 6:29 PM

Orion gave them a distinct advantage over the Wraith if it has been fully repaired. TPTB destroyed it so the balance can be shifted back.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 15th 2006, 6:32 PM

Which makes me wonder... Will we ever get our hands on an Ancient ship again? The answer probably is "Not any time soon... Or maybe never", but still...

The episode seemed slow at the beginning, but the last 10 minutes were devastatingly fast. Boom here, Boom there, get that, destroy that, convert that, kill that, and here we go... cliff-hanger.

Posted by: StarMaven Jul 15th 2006, 8:33 PM

I thought the ep was weak I mean come on we get the Orion and then we blow it up. How many ships is that now? I mean I know if would be boring if we had the ship and used it in as tactical advantage all the time but come on...one ep...why bother to even name the ship? I did love the scene with Rodney and Ronan in the cocoons. I was cracking up

Posted by: dr lee Jul 15th 2006, 8:44 PM

Best thing for me in this episode:

The CG

i mean we had some new shots of the battle at the end of S2 (what was the point of that anyway?) and some of the shots of the Deadalus were great. The bit where the camera is stuck to the underside of the ship as it moves away from the wraith ship was amazing. Also is it me or is the image quality of SG1 and SGA different form the last seasons?

Shame about the Orion, it would have been nice to have it a bit longer though it's good that Lorne and Zelenka got off.

I'd heard that this was a TBC episode and i was expecting a twist at the end and i was surprised when it failed to appear.

Big spoiler for later S3 episode

Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Jul 15th 2006, 11:03 PM

I liked this story, liked it plenty. No yawns from me!


And Weir has a set of balls? Not really, she bitched about the bureaucrats behind their backs. She should have called them on their bullsh*t, only she pussed out. I think the writers should have had her call the diplocrats out on their idiocy, right to their faces. But maybe that's just me.

Posted by: Subfer Jul 16th 2006, 3:38 AM

Well the ep was average, not the best story but very good s. effects.

Dont u all think that nukes are a little weak in the show i mean they should do a little more damage.
Caldwell did the wright think in launching all of the nukes but unfortunatly the timing was bad since alot darts were outside because they were chasing Shepard if they would be in bays probably a lot of nukes would hit the hive and destroy it.

It realy sucked that they destroyed Orion writers really f***** up there if u ask me.

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Jul 16th 2006, 7:36 AM

I'm sorry, but did anyone else catch Zelenka using the term "FTL"?? Since when did they start using that as a term for "hyperspace drives" ..... everybody knows that the term FTL now belongs to BSG

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jul 16th 2006, 8:15 AM

I think the EP was fine... But it did make that Ancient war ship look patheticly weak...

I know it was damaged and not 100% working and all and they had to turn off their
shieds in order to use their weapons and thats why the Wraiths were able to destroy
it so easily... But what really made it look poor was its weapons... Drones ?

Sure the drones can tear apart the enemy ship if you shoot out everything you got
but but even if they do tear it apart it takes time and then you have to run because
you are out of ammo...

Why didn't they install some big powerfull beam weapons like in those satelites and
use them to take out big hives and such and use those drones for darts and such...

But anyway... The WORST part of the episode was: To be continued...

Posted by: Major Gordon Sumner Jul 16th 2006, 10:01 AM

I think the episode was excellent ! A really good kick-off. Maybe the only bad point about Atlantis is that they begin to repeat themselves a lot.. Except the part where Shepard is on the ship in hypersapce, really surprising. But for the other things, it's again : them trapped in the Hive ships, the doctor complaining and a rescue. I mean, al right; they're doing it really well but we have been through that process really often...

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 16th 2006, 10:05 AM

TPTB had to destroy it to redress the balance. If Orion had survived, the team could have fully repaired it and used it to attack the Wraith. It wouldn't have been realistic if they hadn't destroyed it and not have taken the fight to the Wraith.

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jul 16th 2006, 10:38 AM

I think its fine that the Orion was destroyed... It propably wouldn't have been
so usefull anyway... (It would have been just a big unarmed transport ship...)

Posted by: Aticus Jul 16th 2006, 11:20 AM

i love when McKay was bashing DOS lol

"look at this console, it's a mess. good thing i still remember how to use DOS. trust me Ronan, that was VERY funny""

Posted by: Major Gordon Sumner Jul 16th 2006, 2:38 PM

I've missed that one... I'm from Belgium and the word "Dos" I couldn't translate it, I was wondering was it was... No thanks to you I understand... It's really too much funny

Posted by: That Chevron Guy Jul 16th 2006, 2:58 PM

Well, the Orion is gone! That was a huge letdown, but then again, she was already somewhat damaged. You can't blame the Atlantis Expedition for that. She did, however, at least take out one Wraith hiveship. Plus what will become of the Daedalus? Are they going to repair her?

And I don't know why everyone is complaining about the to be continued part. Would you rather have both ep's crammed into one? I wouldn't. I hate it when ep's are rushed.

Posted by: Revan Jul 16th 2006, 3:22 PM

They could have started out with a 90 minute episode. This episode was still a bit rushed.

Posted by: tauri129 Jul 16th 2006, 5:26 PM

i really liked this ep. great special effects. i liked that they actually had weir make a decision without shepperd. maybe there's hope for her yet...though probably not. i think theres a lot of hope for this season.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 16th 2006, 6:00 PM

I must be wondering what will they do with Michael... I mean, he's still a Wraith, he will need to feed soon. Will they allow him to return to his fellow Wraith, or transform him into a human again, by his agreement?

Posted by: Major Gordon Sumner Jul 16th 2006, 6:43 PM

I agree ! Weir did a really good job, I mean as an actress. She was the only one actress who gave an energy to all the episode. She was playing on the edge. Kind of tired person, exhausted byu the work and the stress of the events. Her responsability and all. That was a good interpretation. really good for the episode. The others are taking the whole war too much for a joke...

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 16th 2006, 8:51 PM

Hobo I soooo missed that. How funny is that! An Hommage to BSG I guess.

Why the hell is the USA getting SGA before Canada does? We always get it first. I just realized it. DUH to me but still it is just so not right!

Posted by: kingpet Jul 16th 2006, 9:01 PM

HEYYY.....

i just finished watching this eps and start watching the sg1 eps.


ISNT the guy on the bridge with caldwell the SAME person as the guy on the bridge with the captain on the odyssey?!

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 16th 2006, 9:19 PM

Major Lorne?

They beamed him over just before it blew up.

Posted by: kingpet Jul 16th 2006, 11:02 PM

nono, i mean he was in the sg1 10x01 eps as well as the atlantis 3x01 eps. like recycled actors?

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Jul 17th 2006, 12:30 AM

I'm pretty sure it's within the first like 5-10 mins of the episode

Posted by: Pitry Jul 17th 2006, 3:06 AM

Yay! Crossovers! No, really. I love them, I do. I already do see both shows as one with two episodes every week, and I would have liked the notion of "the characters in the episode are detemrined by location, not cast", so yay! Crossovers!

I really really really hope Weir becomes more hte Weir we saw in No Man's Land and the second half of season 1 than the Weir in the rest of hte show. That's the Weir that should be - a strong woman that goes with the "I don't give a damn what you're thinking, I'm doing what I think is right, I know I make huge mistakes and I'm going to take responsibility for them." That's the Weir I always imagined. So, hooray! Woolsey is becoming quite a bit more of a "good guy", tho, and I'm not sure if that's such a good thing, TBH. Portraying the rest of the IOA as idiots just to make Woolsey seem better so we can relate to him - I dunno, kind of ruins the dynamics they achieved in Heroes, Inaugration and Prototype.

.. Ha! The Orii are mentioned in Atlantis. I wondered how long that'll take. Flesh and Blood spoilers!

So the Orion is destroyed. Good, it was too big a technology to have at any rate. They shouldn't have Aurora class ships - definitely not this early in the show. (...however, what is it with the writer's need to destroy spaceships? Not just SG1 and the Orion - but the Daedalus?! They need the Daedalus! The Oddyssey can't go on the Daedalus route! Meh. And just as I was starting to like Caldwell... nah, they need to get him a ship. However! There shall be no more magical, "oh, we just ended up building this new, shiny, ship." Please?)

So Wraith Queens aren't like the rest of the Wraith- in the genetic make up, no less, methinks? I wonder if we're going to see more about that - I certainly hope so. Maybe some of the riddles of the Wraith's existance would finally be solved?

And Michael turned too fast. And I mean, way too fast. So he's having a bit of problems at home and all of a sudden he forget all about how he wanted to go back to being a Wraith when he was human? Yes, I know that experience changed him. But that still should have been a slower process. And what's with the queen calling him "Michael"? Are we ever going to learn the Wraith's real names?
Loads of amusing quotes from Sheppard, not as many from McKay - quite a McKay light episode, TBH. A shame. All in all, excellent. Let's hope the rest of the season looks like that and not like the first half of season 2! But can the Wraith please stop being so theatrical? Please? Pretty please?... :|

Kingpet: I suspect you mean Major Marks on SG1 and whoever it is on SGA - no, they're not the same person; However they do seem alike. Er, cough, limited gene pool?

Posted by: ancient01 Jul 17th 2006, 6:39 AM

As much as I wanted to see more of the Orion, for the sake of the storyline, I do think they needed to lose that piece of tech. I wonder if they'll even ackowledge the fact that it wasn't their ship. The people they got it from are going to be pretty upset when they find out. It was supposed to be on loan until they got re-settled on their new world, wasn't it?

Overall, I'd say this was a passable episode. I loved the space battles, but the story left a little to be desired, in my opinion. Teyla had no role in this one, and yes, I agree with many of you who say she should have had even less. She has no place in the chain of command, so she shouldn't have even been in the control room, let alone run the place. My $.02...

Posted by: dr lee Jul 17th 2006, 6:47 AM

they've done this before with teyla.

In Intruder when all the main earth Atlantis people were returning on the Deadalus Teyla was left in charge of Atlantis.

So the fact that she is the leader of the Athosians means she has no experience of leading people?

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 17th 2006, 7:59 AM

Yes it was supposed to be but it is unlikely they will go back to that part of the story. Orion belonged, for all intents and purposes, to Atlantis. The people who they got it from couldn't do anything about the destruction of Orion so there is no real point in including them again.

Posted by: J&S4Ever Jul 17th 2006, 8:37 AM

Over a month... and you expect, in just over a month, for them to get a derelict spaceship that has been sitting in a hanger for 10,000 years working perfectly???

Yes it is a TV show, but the people who watch it are also very intelligent and we KNOW that we can barely repair a badly damaged CAR in a little over a month and that's because we have access to the manuals, parts, and blueprints. Imagine trying to get all of that for a ship that's been sitting there for longer than there has been civilization on Earth??? Come on!!! It wasn't just their lack of knowledge, personnel, etc. but that fact that they really do need more than a month to fix something the size and scope of the Orion.\

Although you're right about the storyline part in the sense that if Orion had been in working order, we would have kicked Wraith ass and well...there goes the show!

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jul 17th 2006, 10:52 AM

Even if Orion would have survived it wouldn't have been so big advantage against the Wraiths
because it was armed only with drones...

Posted by: Revan Jul 17th 2006, 11:50 AM

Certainly not perfectly. But enough that it could use shields and weapons simultaneously. Given how fast Rodney was able to get the hyperdrive and shields working, I would think they would be able to do something about the rest of the systems. Course, they may have attempted an entire overhaul...

BTW, are you saying I am unintelligent?

Posted by: ancient01 Jul 17th 2006, 12:51 PM

It's not a question of her leadership abilities. It's an "Earth base" with a strong military presence. There is presumably a clear chain of command. We've never seen Teyla placed in that chain of command. She has not really been anything more than an advisor to Sheppard, Weir, and Caldwell. Teal'c really faces the same situation in the SGC. We never see him giving orders other than something like "Get out of the way." In those situations, though, he is usually carrying a very large weapon, so rank or not, people tend to listen. There is, I admit, though, always the possibility that she was given an official position behind the scenes. We just haven't seen it.

Posted by: J&S4Ever Jul 17th 2006, 1:32 PM

But Rodney was otherwise occupied with the whole Wraith thing, and if he had time and fixed it then we would not have lost it and we would be beating the Wraith and that would not be good.

Of course I'm not saying that. That why I said "WE" which includes you. I think TPTB know we're going to sit here and discuss and dissect every part of the episode so they throw in some stuff for us to chew on that we have to sit and think through. I read the posts and then think about them for a while before I reply (most of the time). And sometime they just don't know what to write to fill in the episode and we get crappy TV!

Posted by: Opher Jul 17th 2006, 1:40 PM

I'm not sure she would be the best to lead even if she did have some official position. This is an Earth base, as you said, she would have to have Earth "knowledge". Most of the problems she would have to face would be simple, like "X" lost his passaport (just an exemple ;)), and she would have to know what that is in order to solve the problem She would have a lot of similar problems to deal with and she might just lack the understanding of earth tech and habits to handle them all (i think anyone responsable for more than 30 or so people would agree that most of the work they do is maintainance related).

Posted by: Saffron Jul 17th 2006, 1:48 PM

Perhaps if they would develop her character a bit more we would not have such a problem with her. Alien or human, Teyla, as a character, is weak. I agree that she was a poor choice to be left in command and if Weir were in charge and not the writers it would not have happened. Did that make sense?

What I'm trying to say is, in a real world situation Weir would not have left her in charge. It only happened on the show to give her something to do other than splits in her bed.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 17th 2006, 3:59 PM

does anyone know the timeline between atlantis and sg1..i mean surely earth woulnd;t have called weir back in the middle of a crisis with an earth ship destroyed nad anothe crippled..

also isn;t the deadalus jsut crippled and is repairable? i mean surely its not scrap yet

Posted by: Opher Jul 17th 2006, 4:46 PM

I wouldn't be that surprised to find they didn't think about that, keep in mind they recalled Wier when she was needed in Atlantis, so they're no strangers to stupidity. I believe the time-lines differ at most by a few hours, personal oppinion.

The daedalus's engines should be fine, they didn't say they were crippeled in the attack, the only serios problems were shield depleation and life support failure, both can be dealt with once they begin repairs. I'm sure we'll see the Daedalus again.

Btw, their hive was struck by at least one nuck when they first opened fire, aren't radiations a concern now? Also, the damage done seamed severe, will the engines work?
Now that Michael is abord the hive, will he not be affected by the retro-virus? Maybe the effects wore off...

Posted by: jacksworld Jul 17th 2006, 5:04 PM

I couldnt agree even more....The first thing i thought to myself that it must have been the 5th time shepard was captured and brought in a wraith ship

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 17th 2006, 5:09 PM

She gave orders to Major Lorne in 'The Long Goodbye'. She is clearly in the command structure and given that Atlantis is under civilian command, command does not automatically pass to the military if Weir is not present. Command would pass on to anyone Weir said it would.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 17th 2006, 5:26 PM

Neah, it was for the third time: First time in Rising, second time in The Lost Boys, and of course this third time in No Man's Land.

Posted by: rica0011 Jul 17th 2006, 6:07 PM

I just wanted to say that in my opinion losing the Orion was bound to happen anywaze ... one on one against a wraith ship it could win as we saw BUT with 2 ships or even more the orion would be no match. This we know because the Ancients lost the war because no matter how many ships they had they were out numbered by the wraith. If the Daedalus was more powerful then the Orion may have lasted longer.

Another point is that this is only the 3rd season and the beginning of it at that and if this show lasts for anywhere near as long as sg1 then it is safe to say that we'll see more ancient ships or even new earth ships in atlantis. It was sad to see it go but hopefully they downloaded the specs of it and can have earth make a copy of it, maybe not exactly the same but something like it would be cool. Again I don't expect for this to happen this season.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 17th 2006, 9:04 PM

Why don't people think that Teal'c and Teyla a part of the leadership. They re both on the #1 team, and whenever they is a meeting between leadership, they are included. They biggest threat in Atlantis would be the wraith, and Teyla would be best person to deal with that threat (considering who is left on base).

If by now you still haven't send people take orders from Teal'c, you should watch more sg1. It definitly happens, and I think enough people have mentioned it for you to take our words for it.

In 'The Siege 3' the Daedalus took on 12 Wraith Ships at once, with the element of suprise. Now The Daedalus and the Orion are outnumbered by two Hive ships?

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 17th 2006, 9:19 PM

No JTM not out numbered. If you watched the episode you see that they said that the two hive ships must have used the information they stole from Atlantis computer to update them. That is how they got the hyperdrive working better than their own.

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Jul 17th 2006, 10:28 PM

By definition, that is not possible

I think the word you are looking for is "outgunned"

Posted by: Thors Puppeteer Jul 18th 2006, 2:16 AM

Maybe he was counting the darts as well?

Posted by: Jade Jul 18th 2006, 8:04 AM

I have to say Atlantis is acquiring their new technology as fast as they destroying it, come on, one battle, thats it for the Orion! It seems so many lives taken in these two season openings than all the years combine!
hate those IOA or whatever those ppl from Scourge (SG1 seaon 9), they are really pissing me off, so I think Weir did well handling those idiots, but I think she should never gone back, she should of stay as where she was mostly needed.

Also think there is something weird between Caldwell and Weir, just the way they talk and look at each other!

Mackay is as annoying as ever, but that is just what I expect he should act under the circumstance

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 18th 2006, 11:09 AM

If Orion had survived, it would have been repaired and TPTB would have had no excuse but to use it. They couldn't let it survive and then not use it. Having the Orion would mean they could wipe out a significant amount of the Wraith Hive ships in Pegasus, now it has gone TPTB don't have to worry about that.
Look at the list of five addresses Weir recieved in 'Before I Sleep'. The team could have gained 5 possible ZPMs but we have not heard anything about the list since that episode. Ignoring things like that doesn't make sense. They learned their lesson with the list now TPTB are making sure things that give the team a distinct advantage are removed from the show.

Posted by: Ty_dA_maNn58 Jul 18th 2006, 1:12 PM

It's just a respect thing, who would you rather take orders from an alien who has helped kill alot of your enemies or walter? (the guy who opens the iris) and as it was mentioned before, once u get down to a certain level you will have too many people with the same rank bickering



Well thats just common sense, take it down a level and say you are a soldier fighting against about 20 guys, you have a grenade (nuke) and machine gun (rail gun) you can use the machine gun fine, but the grenade would kill mostly all of them quicker without giving them much of a chance

Id say this episode was ok. not good enough for a season premier, but good for a middle episode of the season. I was really hoping that The wraith would get to earth just in time to stop the Ori (in the opening scene of Flesh and Blood). (I really think it would be sweet to do a MAJOR cross over between the two shows. Like show all members of SG-1 with Atlantis and make no difference between the two different shows..But doubt that will happen)

YA it did suck to see the Orion blow up, and it did look ugly. (Maybe the Atlateans have different taste, maybe to them a LE CAR is like a ferrari) I was hoping it would of stayed, cuz they lost the Aurora (I think,,,I cant remember) But I read a fw posts (not much cuz there is way too many to read) and some people talk about the Deadelus as if it was blown up, They can repair it. And then they got the Deadelus AND a Hive ship (assuming Micheal doesn't take it and run off, which im sure will happen cuz it seems that we have bad luck with alien ships)

But one thing I don't get: Why didn't the Deadelus just transport their people down to the planet when they were losin air (or gaining CO2 or whatever was wrong) I dont seem to recall seeing a planet around there but isn;t that why the wraith dropped out of hyperspace?? To feed? And although it didn't seem they needed to, Why not just send every person on board the Deadelus (that wasn't re-pairing stuff) with a gun over on board the Hive ship? Or just keep transporting them back and forth between the two ships (leaving a person at the Deadelus controls with one of those scuba-space-breathing-things.

And I too was board when they showed Weir on Earth. SO it was a good episode, but not worthy of season premier, and we shouldn't of lost the Orion

Posted by: Athgar Jul 18th 2006, 7:43 PM

They had to stop because :

"their ships are organic in nature. They will need to make brief pauses to recover from the effects of hyperspace radiation" - Zelenka

So no planet



As Michael pointed out they would be greatly outnumbered. They would also be in unfamiliar surroundings



I thought the episode was pretty good generally

Good points
Zelenka and Lorne featuring, 'secondary' characters bring great depth to a series - look at Bra'tac and Jacob
New tactics from Caldwell
Battle done nicely, especially liked the Orion blowing up in the background as Sheppard and co left the hive on the transport
I was glad that Teyla wasn't dragged along on one of the ships just because she's a main character
Interesting to learn slightly more about the wraith Queens

Bad points
The IOA debacle, why exactly would they have a problem with an attempt to stop the wraith reaching earth? Neither of the atlantis ships were in great condition to make a full trip to Earth and given the lack of other defensive options and the possible disaster of the wraith getting loose on earth it seems odd that they would have any issue with an effort to halt them. The IOA having their own agenda and trying to increase their influence is one thing but portraying them as ignorant and foolish is poor writing
Weir is probably my least favourite character which may blight my views but I thought she was being petulant and arrogant when refusing to meet with the IOA again. It hardly seems a good example to be setting as a leader when you suggest that you can pick and choose which parts of the job you will go along with and will ignore your bosses (however indirect they might be) when you don't feel like doing what they tell you to


Questions

Why did Sheppard have no co-pilot in the 302 at the start? In fact, why does Sheppard fly a 302 at all, don't they have full time pilots for them? (I know fine well that it's generally a plot device to get him somewhere so that he can do something more useful later on or just get in the action but it's a pretty poor and repetitive one)

Landry 'orders' Weir to come to Earth, is there any formal chain of command here or is he purely relaying orders from the IOA?

Posted by: Lagger Jul 18th 2006, 7:56 PM

i reckon the dadealus could've taken both hives.. all it would ahve to do is get really close launch 1/2 one way and launch 1/2 the other way...

Also what about beaming the nukes next to the hives then launching em from there?? this episode showed the nukes dont ahve to be beamed inside ...

i woulda though orion, being a ship would've had some sort of energy weapon.... just goes to show how stupid the ancients are tactically...

i can imagine a fleet of atlantian ships...they get into a fight, and waste all their drones, then get hammered and destroyed... when you have a finite arsenal, and what seems like infinite number of enemies would'nt it have made sense to use energy weapons??

this wasnt a very good episode.. the seige was much better in factm i reckon the seige was by far teh best episode so far...

i reckon michael got frustrated cause at least as a human... he got a bit more respect/freedom... and as a wraith, he has lost all his power, and no one wanted to talk to him... + he thought they were going to kill him soon....

so it was either die, or take your chances with the humans who mightnt kill me.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 18th 2006, 8:19 PM

I was trying to invalidate the commit from Rica who was the one saying that they were no match 1 on 2. It was just rhetorical question.



Given what has transpired Deadulus was more powerful than the Orion, or at least it was in better shape than Orion.




She is doing exactly what Jack has done for the past 10 years. The people making who are supposed to make the decisions have absolutly no idea what is going on, nor any experiance dealing with the problems that the sgc are facing. They are making blind decisions which cause trouble. Look at all of the interaction between Kinsey and Jack and Hammond and Weir and the list goes on. Even Thor (in a much earlier ep) went as far as to say that he doesn't care what those people have to say, and that Jack was the one that he respected (not in so many words of course). Why should Weir listen to them? They only know what they've read in reports. She is one they appointed, and she is the one with the only experiance running things on Atlantis. If they don't like the way she is doing things, let them go to Atlantis and deal with the Wraith. I think she made a great point to them.

There are regular pilots, but in Sheppard is a "great" pilot, and he is the highest ranking person on Daedelus that is not essential to it's operation. I love seeing him out there flying. People are saying the samy thing about Mitchell flying the Oddyssey. I personally think it's great that they still get to fly afterall it is the airforce and they are decorated pilots.

Landry did tell Weir that he was just the messenger, and that they weren't his orders.

Posted by: startreksuite Jul 18th 2006, 9:09 PM

Awesome episode! I almost forgot what was going on, that the wraiths tricked us and captured McKay and Ronan on the ship. But they turned it around with the help of Michael, an unwitting ally who was outcast by his own people! The WTF moment was when they brought out the Orion to help the Daedalus out, only to be blown apart about 5 minutes after coming through the gate! I really like the fact that they were able to use their wraith regression technology, so that they could use their ship! Can't wait until the next episode!

Posted by: Athgar Jul 18th 2006, 9:28 PM

Sheppard may be a "great pilot" but since he wasn't aware of the Stargate before 'Rising', and was isolated in Pegasus for all of season 1, surely he can't be as good in a 302 as the pilots who are experienced in their use? My objection is that it's quite similar to the Captain beaming down first in star trek, it doesn't make any sense. Presumably the Daedalus has enough pilots to operate its fighters, why would one of them get benched because Sheppard feels like flying? I don't see any reasonable way of justifying it. At the same time I realise the aim is entertainment rather than logic or accuracy (and rightly so) but the two are not mutually exclusive.


Landry did indeed tell Weir that he was just the messenger but the way they spoke seemed to imply that he had some vague seniority

"I need you to step through that gate"
"I considered disobeying your order"

Posted by: Gate Jumper Jul 18th 2006, 10:07 PM

The part where he hooked onto the back of the Wraith ship was cool. I think Sheppard is making Star Wars his joke thing like RDA did with Wizard of Oz, thats like the second time he joked a Star Wars crack, first being "R2, shut down the autopilot" something like that.

Posted by: tuna Jul 19th 2006, 12:21 AM

The Orion is the sh*t!!!
Those drones are amazing

To bad its gone

Posted by: Revan Jul 19th 2006, 1:02 AM

I am hoping for some character devlopment at some point. Otherwise, I am going to get very bored very fast.

I liked Sheppard saying, 'man, I should isten to those guys more often...'

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 19th 2006, 2:25 AM

Yes, he was poking fun at himself for always giving more attention to the ladies.

Posted by: Cha'Lok Jul 19th 2006, 6:48 AM

I think the special effects on the drones destroying the Hive were pretty lame. From the distance you couldn't even have seen the drones, remember; you can hold one in your arms. And, if I remember correctly, they went through the bottom and out on the top of the hive ships in a way that all the drones went through the same hole. How stupid is that. After that they did split up but damn, pretty stupid.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 19th 2006, 10:22 AM

Well, the 302 is an Alien human hybrid. All of the control inside from what I can tell seem to be extremly similar to already existing airforce jets. We have seen a number of pilots jump into the 302s and easily control them. Sam Jack Mitchell, that that guy was trying to expose the stargate program (no time to look up his name), and now Sheppard.

EDIT: The guy's name is Colsen and it's ep 808 Covenant. Sam Lets him take the stick and she doesn't give a single pointer. I think Mitchell and Sheppard are supposed to be the best two pilots in the SG world, so why wouldn't they get to fly 302s when needed.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 20th 2006, 7:24 AM

err JTMAG - it was inferred to in the show that sam and jack was involved heavily in the developement of the 302 adn thus have training in it.. mitchell was trained to be a 302 pilot

also shepard has training as a helicopter pilot and i don;t think it was referred to in any case where he has prior training in a fighter plane..

colsen has his own personal jet which he flew, i believe in that episode and his company also designed parts of the 302..

shepard was not aware of the stargate until sga 101, and then hes off to atlantis and don;t see a 302 until 201 (i think) perhaps he may have gotten the training while they were on the 3 weeks flight from earth to atlantis onboard the d

Posted by: Athgar Jul 20th 2006, 9:49 AM

The trip would be in hyperspace wouldn't it? Unless I'm wrong they can't (or haven't tried) launching in hyperspace

I still want to know why he would get to jump in ahead of the pilots who's job it is to do the flying


Also, on the issue of the Orion. Even if one accepts that keeping it indefinitely would be too unbalancing, there could have been better ways to see it off. As people have pointed out diminishing drone stocks would come into play (limited resources in general should really play a bigger role in atlantis). The genius of having the Orion around would be the problems created by the possibilities it opens. For instance imagine the Wraith feeding on a defenceless but heavily populated world, with the Orion fully repaired they could mount a defence of the world but at the cost of depleting drones, poor Caldwell would end up having the 'wrong side of the argument' line as usual "I hate to point this out but every drone we fire in defence of them we can't defend ourselves with". With a bit of imagination (something no sci fi show should lack) there was a lot of potential there which I think they didn't really take advantage of

Posted by: Ancient Kane Jul 20th 2006, 6:00 PM

i swear the orion got destroyed.

That episode was amazing. I didnt like Micheal they should just kill him and atempt to fly home with Ronon at the wheel. That would be interesting. They should just have Shepeard and Weir doing it this season to really liven things up ;)

I cant wait for the next episodes on Friday.

Posted by: Coca2Cola Jul 20th 2006, 8:29 PM

It might be possible to fly in hyperspace as zelinka had mentioned in this episode. "I am simply talking about manuvering within the field not passing through it"-Zalinka

well put, but isnt that what flight simulators are for? and i dont think he got any jump on any other pilots. If your refering to him being the one going after the hyperdrive on the wraith ships then i would say its because the other 302 was damaged and the rest were dogfighting with the darts.

ow ya that is a cool idea for the drones to attack our ships, it would be interesting to watch.

Posted by: dr lee Jul 21st 2006, 5:13 AM

Haven't you read any of the posts in here? The Orion was destroyed


Why kill him? he is the only reason for Shep being able to get Ronon and McKay off the ship alive. There is also the fact that he was tricked into doing this by the wraith bitch... i mean queen


Why should Shep and Wier funk eachother this season? What is the point?


These were the only bits of your post that i agree with.

Posted by: Christy Jul 21st 2006, 9:10 AM

I actually think that this episode was better than season 2's opener.
And it was so good to see Michael again (I have a thing for Conner) and the way the Wraith wouldn't accept him back as one of their own because of the way he's sort of human now.

And um...do any of us actually want to see...well one of our fave guys with Weir? He's a fly boy...has one on every world...

Posted by: Ancient Kane Jul 22nd 2006, 4:03 PM

ARGH THATS DISGUSTING.!!! I HATE HIM AS MUCH AS RONON I HOPE THAT THAT RANDOM FIRING HIT HIM IN THE HEAD

Posted by: dr lee Jul 22nd 2006, 4:12 PM

You do know that it is considered rude to respond in only captial letters?

Posted by: Christy Jul 23rd 2006, 3:16 AM

I guess we are all entitled to our own opinions...but ancient kane i'm having a little bit of trouble are you saying you hate michael? and um...what random firing? he was alive at the end of the episode.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 23rd 2006, 4:22 AM

WTF?

You hate Michael, you hate Ronon? I agree maybe with Michael, but Ronon? Who can hate Ronon?

BTW, wrong episode, the Misbegotten thread is in this forum, but this thread is about No Man's Land, no random firing over here... Do I need spoiler tags for this?

Posted by: Christy Jul 23rd 2006, 8:41 AM

I agree...Ronan is so cute and has this manliness about him which i cant understand why anyone would or could hate him.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 24th 2006, 12:07 AM

Ronon was a great replacement for Ford. He is much better to look at, plus he is interesting, whereas Ford was not in season 1.

Posted by: Forest Jul 25th 2006, 7:28 PM

I enjoyed this opener.

It was sad to see the Orion destroyed, but it was probably a good idea in terms of future story lines.

Posted by: Pearce1340 Aug 8th 2006, 10:17 AM

Damn I can't wait to see this ep, but I'm from england so I will have to wait until Oct! Boo Hoo

Posted by: Revan Aug 8th 2006, 4:34 PM

STOP SPAMMING!

You would think our ship would have some sort of backup air filtration systems...

Posted by: dr lee Aug 8th 2006, 5:15 PM

Or more of the emergancy air tanks

Posted by: Revan Aug 8th 2006, 5:48 PM

Yeah.... why would they have only 20 emergency air tanks when they are in outer space?

We are humans, we are supposed to be big on safety and contingency plans!

Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 8th 2006, 11:12 PM

Yes, thank you. A 747 has more than enough life vests and emergency air masks for everyone on bored, and we send a ship into space with 20 air tanks. Unless the rest were in compartments that were not accessible, just like the space suits.

I was reminded of this thread when I watched 'The Storm' a couple of days ago. When they wanted to fly off of the mainland, Beckett said something to the effect of "Are you kidding me... Even Major Sheppard would have a hard time flying in this", which woudl suggest that he is much better than the average pilot.

Posted by: startreksuite Aug 9th 2006, 7:05 AM

How is this person spamming?

Posted by: Revan Aug 9th 2006, 3:09 PM

Hmmm... That seems more likely. Only 20 were salvageable. Though, if I worked on a space ship, I'd have them laying all over.

Well Beckett doesn't like having the Ancient gene. Poor guy. Well O'Neill did say that Sheppard did excellent flying.



Repeated insubstantial posting. It may not be deliberate. I just want to see them actually say something that can contribute to the discussion.

Also, I am fairly certain, that in the board rules, it says not to do exactly what he did...

Anymore questions?

Posted by: Auntie Em! Aug 14th 2006, 3:35 AM

Nice bitch-slap Revan!

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 18th 2006, 4:10 PM

Judging by the first episodes of both shows, it is clear where the writing talents are being focused, this was so much better than 'Flesh and Blood'. My only complaints were McKay's moaning when he was in the cocoon and Ronon trying to kill Michael right away. On the subject of Michael, he was a brilliant addition to the episode. He outshone the rest of the characters in my opinion and deserves to be a recurring character.
Why did the retrovirus only affect the males? McKay said that Beckett (where was he?) theorised that was possible but on what did he base that theory?

Posted by: Parmenides Oct 20th 2006, 12:25 PM

Me. He's a tediously predictable ass.

All in all, I really liked the ep - far better than SG-1's opener; it didn't lack purpose as much as FaB did. And now to complain...

They destroyed the Orion!? A ballsy move for sure, and I completely didn't see it coming, although they've been awfully casual when it comes to destroying ships lately. Poor Lorne; his first command, and he cocks it up! The drones were a huge nitpick - why did they all need to be fired at one ship? Why did they all need to be fired at all?

I like Weir, contrary to most people...but she's the most conflicting character in the show. She's supposed to be a master diplomat, no? Why can't she handle a room of three dignataries without exploding with emotion? She seems to lack tact, so much so I have a hard time believing she could be much of a negotiator. That being said, I do think she is the most realistic character; her actions aren't cliched or stereotyped, I see her reacting as I think a real, normal person would.

How was Shep's 302 able to remain in hyperspace? Don't you need to continue to use your hyperdrive in order to stay in hyperspace, or is that just fan conjecture? Aren't the 302 hyperdrives still unstable, as they always were?

Why would the Wraith leave Ronon's knife with him? That was just stupid...from the point of view of the Wraith and the writers.

I'm glad that I was taken by surprise by the plan to use the retro virus gas to empty the hive ship - I'm so rarely surprised by Stargate these days. All in all, quite clever.

Given both season openers, and the destruction featured therein, humanity is screwed!

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 20th 2006, 12:42 PM

Going by what happened in 'Grace' a ship needs the hyperdrive online to remain in hyperspace. Sheppard could have been about to destroy the hyperdrive when the ships went into hyperspace and some how got dragged in and was able to latch on to the ship in time.


From the perspective of the story, we've seen that Ronon has a lot of knives hidden about his person so it is likely one of those. From the perspective of the writers, the only way they could have escaped (at that point) was if one of them could free himself. Since McKay isn't the type to do that, it had to be Ronon. The knife was just a convenient plot device.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Oct 21st 2006, 12:12 AM

Shep actually attcahed his 302 to the hive ship, so it was was one unit.

Ronan's philosophy is "One for them to find, one for me to keep".

Posted by: JC1 Oct 21st 2006, 10:19 AM

Another strong season opener for Atlantis.

Although, I did feel the Wraith threat to Earth was a bit exagerrated. First off, there was only 2 wraith hive ships heading for Earth, not exactly a fleet. And second they were weeks, possibly over a month away with all the hyperspace pauses. More than enough time to mount some sort of defence. They could have even fully repaired the Daedalus and Orion and then send them to intercept the Wraith in the Milky Way.

Still, the battles were great. Caldwell did a good job in command of the Daedalus. I knew the Orion wouldn't last long, but I was hoping to see a bit more of it in action.

And now they have a Wraith hive ship full of de-Wraithed humans. It will be intresting to see what they are going to do with the ship and the people.

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 21st 2006, 10:24 AM

Sooner or later they will turn into a Wraith similar to Michael so the chances are that they will be put on a planet and be led by Michael.

Posted by: Parmenides Oct 21st 2006, 11:18 AM

Ahh, I was under the impression that he was still in hyperspace when he was flying about, destroying their hyperdrives, but now I realise they weren't. All is well.

That's all well and good about Ronon, but are the Wraith really that stupid to assume he would only have one knife? Wouldn't they have some sort of security scan available anyway, just to be sure? It just seemed a bit weak, plot-wise...

Posted by: JTMAG1 Oct 21st 2006, 4:52 PM

Without convenient little plot devices like that, we would never get to see the main character captured, because without a means of escape, they would all be killed.

Posted by: Parmenides Oct 21st 2006, 5:13 PM

I refuse to suspend my disbelief! Nevah!

That wasn't the only way out of the situation; in fact, Shep and Michael had every intention of rescuing them, they had just already done so with the flimsy knife plot device.

That's all I'm saying.

Posted by: kordone Oct 21st 2006, 8:59 PM

You have to remember that Ronan has more knives on him than the kitchen section of a K-mart




I'm pretty sure that Ford said that on 'The Hive'.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Oct 22nd 2006, 10:46 AM

I thought it was Ronan that said it, because he had like 10 knives on him. But it could have been Ford... I think everyone had at least one back up knife but Shep

Posted by: cdpage Mar 6th 2007, 8:05 PM

I truely enjoyed this EP. It has me hyped up to watch the rest of the season already


I Truely hope they don';t just leave those two ships sitting there between earth and atlantis. Repairing them would give us 3 Mother ships...Each very differant from the other. This alone would provide a story line, or at least leave Earth or Atlantis a ship or two... but i digress.

The graphics were pretty darned good and the tension was great.

again, looking foward to the rest of the season.

Posted by: Revan Mar 19th 2009, 2:31 PM

Three MotherShips?

Posted by: SKATO Jul 23rd 2009, 10:19 AM

How come when The Daedalus fired all of its nukes and the Darts intercepted them, there weren't lots of nuclear explosions? There only seemed to be one and that's when a nuke hit one of the Hives.

I've seen this happen a few times before. Are the nukes on timers or are they set to go off when they reach the intended destination?

Sorry if this has been asked and answered before.

Posted by: Dafmeister Jul 23rd 2009, 5:10 PM

Nukes have to be detonated electronically don't they? Blowing them up will destroy them but won't make them go nuclear.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 23rd 2009, 6:18 PM

I have no idea, but Daf is probably correct. I don't pay attention to the whys, I just enjoy.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jul 23rd 2009, 6:23 PM

Yeah, I believe the idea is that they don't fully arm until they get very close to the intended target, and blowing them up will not cause the nuclear reaction.

If I remember anything from physics (which I probably don't...) the nuclear matrial is surronded by a spherical arrangement of explosives. These exploses are set up so that when activated, they are blow at precisely the same time, forcing the explosive energy in toward the center. Since the explosion comes from all sides, the unstable atoms are forced toward each other and collide on an atomic level. This collision is what releases the incredible force of an "atomic bomb".

If the bomb is just destroyed by collision or weapons fire, the intricate timing device usually doesn't have a chance to cause the nuclear explosion.

If Marv is around, I'm sure he has a much better explanation.