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Posted by: Arcady Nov 29th 2006, 8:07 PM

Season 3, Episode 11 - The Return (Part Two)
Air date: March 2007

The Atlantis team must rescue General O'Neill and Richard Woolsey when they are taken captive by the Asurans.

http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s3.shtml#311 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=14557

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)

Posted by: Raxor Nov 30th 2006, 3:26 AM

Let me be the first to say i enjoyed this episode, plenty of laughs in it and i felt like the old O'neill was back with us.

Sfx are good as always with some awesome shots of the city - Liked the drones chasing them through it.

And this showed how good mkay is with his completely false plan to mislead the replicators. I wasnt too sure about the rewind thing but it was different.

So how long is the city going to keep the 3 zpms they have now, or will they stop working for no reason

Good episode, ***1/2

Posted by: Rogue Ashrak Nov 30th 2006, 4:29 AM

What can I say? GREAT Episode. RDA was at his absolute sarcastic best, and McKay's plan was brilliant, even if "the fast rewind" bit was a little cheesy. Too bad none of the Ancients survived, although they did get a new ZPM out of it.

Small possible nitpick though. When the Daedalus embarked on its mission to destory Atlantis, it got there pretty fast. (Perhaps less than a day after Sheppard & Co left Earth). What was it doing anywhere near the Pegasus Galaxy? I assume O'Neill travelled there by the Gatebridge, so there would be no reason for the Daedalus to be in Pegasus. I would have assumed it would have been recalled back to the Milky Way to help against the Ori....

*EDIT: 3 ZPM's Rax? I thought the Ancients only brought one?

Posted by: fan_83 Nov 30th 2006, 8:05 AM

teh ancients only got one but the replicators have 2 onboard their ship which was then dismantled thus giving atlantis all 3..
but the next episode will tell you what happen to all 3

ps: thanks to arcady for opening the thread

Posted by: Revan Nov 30th 2006, 2:01 PM

Superb episode. RDA did a great job in this episode... sweet underwater work!

Well that main problem with having ZPM's has been resolved... no more stardrive, so the city is permanently stationary.

I wonder if they are going to use the underwater jumper bay ever again, because that was pretty cool.

Awww poor Woolsey got tricked into helping them.

The shots of the jumper weaving between the buildings of the city was amazing.

Posted by: magnavox Nov 30th 2006, 4:11 PM

This would have to be one of the best Atlantis episodes ever! Loved the whole team working together and Shep 'Gibbs slapping' McKay Loved pissy Woolsey, but RDA certainly stole the show, Jack was brilliant, closer to the old Jack than the past few years. The underwater scenes were fantasic *wet Jack*

I assume the Replicators bought their own, they certainly had enough.

Posted by: Revan Nov 30th 2006, 4:42 PM

The Replicators brought 3 fully charged ZPM's. We know they had them because they were preparing to lift off, that is why Carson destroyed the stardrive. You cannot fly the city with the 3 ZPM's, says McKAy, which makes in canon.

SGA 312 spoiler:

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Nov 30th 2006, 11:05 PM

Actually, it's

Posted by: Rogue Ashrak Dec 1st 2006, 2:42 AM

Well the writers COULD have kept at least one or two of the Ancients alive. With such small numberes they'd hardly be in the position to deny the Atlantis team access to the city again.AND we could have had a new Ancient character or two for the writers to play around with. Could have been interesting. A missed opportunity....

Posted by: TheCordler Dec 1st 2006, 2:48 AM

well, i was thinking that with the star drive destroyed, they can always go back to the tower and get that one. with the asguard beaming tech it'l be easy getting it out of there ^^.

Posted by: Revan Dec 1st 2006, 3:10 AM

Oh damn.... my bad...



TPTB probably knew what they were doing. There was no reason for the Asurans to leave any Ancient alive, given their intention is now to eradicate them and all their descendants from the face of the galaxy. TPTB even put it in, how the Captain of the Tria tried to resist the mind probe.



The stardrive is a highly integrated system. It would be nearly impossible to simply 'beam' it out. Also, the city-ship on that planet was buried under a lot of earth, the sections with the stardrive in them might have collapsed by this time.



I do wonder.... what happened to the Tria?

Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Dec 2nd 2006, 1:11 PM

Good question, where is that other Ancient ship.

I guess we can presume it got destroyed, but they didn't say anything in the episode.

Posted by: Pitry Dec 2nd 2006, 4:44 PM

Hooray! Excellent episode. I need to stop beign shocked at how good Atlantis episodes should be, but two years of habit...

The arrogant Ancients... well, they've been shown to be really arrogant, bnoth on SGA and SG1. Did I mention it's no wonder that race got extinct? Twice?... But TBH, it can bring in some interesting results. Pegasus Project

The same in Return part 1 - Jack's commetn about Elizabeth not being able to let go, etc., her own reaction when the Ancients came to Atlantis...

But now on to part 2, as there were no Anceints there
Jack and Woolsey, who would have guessed they can be such a pair! "I'm not very good at this", bwahahaha. And Jakc's initial comment about him being good for something
Okay, I really didn't see the whole "Plan B/C/F" coming. The whole "That's how we did it", while re-hashed to death on television, was done really really well. Entertaining plan, too.

So, Repliactors are super-fast at reconstructing Atlantis? I have to say tho, it's pretty entertaining - someone mentioned in an interview how the conference room is way too small and they're having a hell of a time shooting there, I guess they decided to seize up the opportunity and change it...

McKay was wonderful He's been down-played this year, which while necessary and a decision I agree with is a tad bit sad cos he's my favourite character. But they got him jsut enough this time - and McKay and Jack were extermely entertaining, too. I don't think these two ever had the chance to work so much together before? I don't recall they had a lot of scenes together in Redemption.

Jack on the whole - I really, really missed him. All the scenes he had - and how much Jack he was, felt better than several episods of seaosn 8 when he was a regular. Oh, yeah, and the "workoholic" line... that was a hoot.

Weir didn't have too much to do.... btu what she did was lovely. And I love hopw Weir and Jack work together. I did get mutual respect and a sort of friendship. They;ve worked together in the past, not just in Elizabeth's head - there's an unacountable period of time between New ORder and Rising, when she was heading the Antarctica research and him the SGC. I think after Lost City ("I sense there's hope for you") and the ending of New ORder - and then that - they did develop some sort of a friendship.
I've really grown to love her - and that scene in the end was really sweet. Carson.... not so much to do, and again, Teyla and Ronon.... but that's repeating myself ad infinitum, so I'll stop.

So, excellent. More, please?

Posted by: replicant Dec 4th 2006, 7:09 AM

I thought this ep was awesome. Iloved the flying through the city being chased by drones. I'm hoping that in later epsiodes they find the ancient leader in statis somewhere in the city. they never said that they'd killed her. Lots of ZPMs now thats a good thing.

Posted by: SG-15 Dec 4th 2006, 1:29 PM

Man what a great episode!! But first thanks Canada!! We couldn't have seen this without you!!!

Now loved the episode. I was a little surprised at them blowing up the gateroom, but the SFX of the jumper breaking through the glass was awesome!! Speaking of SFX of the Jumper, the chase through the city was awesome! Much better than the chase back in Brotherhood. If you noticed you could see through the windows of buildings with lights on. Very cool, makes it feel much more like a city. And that line "Then I'll try to hit the buildings we like the least!" haha I love it.

The underwater Jumper Bay was a neat idea. Makes you woder though if that was added on after the ancients came to Pegasus since their would be no need for it if they were on the ground. Or maybe it was intended as an alternate to the other bay when flying so jumpers wouldn't have to fly to the other side. Also makes you wonder if their are other jumper bays...hmmmm maybe but I doubt it. Anyway I loved the entire underwater sequence, esspecially with a RDA cameo! So I guess though that the flooded areas of the city were the sections that flooded during the super hurricane back in season one. AH I'm probably overthinking it.

Now brief moment, when they mentioned the Tria crew I started to wonder, what happened to the Tria? Did we just beam the crew to the Deadalus and left the Tria in the Void between our galaxies, did we tow it back, or the ancients somehow bring it back to Atlantis. If so did the Replicators destroy it, take it back to their homeworld, or something else to it. The Replicators never mentioned it, in fact they didn't even acknowlege the Lanteans as Tria's crew. Which mean we may have left it out in the Void, if so we should use it! I mean come on we've lost enough ships, we could use an ancient warship which it's only damage is the hyperdrive. We could easily fix that and the other systems should work, which means unlike the Orion working sheilds and weapons at the same time! I think the writers need to explore that option.

Let's see we've had 2 goa'uld ships. One crashed killing Apophis and thousands of Replicators, another blew up under the Pacific ocean. We've had several gliders one in which is drifting towards the Kuiper belt as we speak, several other unaccouted for. A cargo ship we may still have but no confirmation probably gone since it disappeard after season 5, another cargo ship got sucked up by a black hole. We had an Al'kesh which we stripped so Prometheus could have a hyperdrive, Baal crashed one more recently but it may never fly again. An Orii ship but the Orici stole it back (curses). The Aurora, although damaged majorily it was still a shame to have it blow up, then the Orion which also blew up thanks to the Wraith (I'm seeing a patter here), We have many PJs but they keep crashing...a lot! Then we had a hive ship but it also blew up! (I don't like were this is going), There's the Wrait cruise ship on the other planet in the Lantean star system but we seem to be leaving it alone. A Wraith Dart from season two that we seemed to have forgotten (probably blew up as well). The Prometheus blew up, as well as the Korlev. You know someone needs to teach these people how to drive. We haven't lost the Odyssey or the Deadalus yet but they do get serious damage in many episodes.

So it would be really nice if we can keep the Tria!

Now back to the episode, I'm guessing that since the city was about to fly that the Replicators brought some ZPMs meaning we have 3 ZPMs nice, too bad Bekket destroyed the Stardrive though. I would love to have a flying city, would solve a lot of problems. BUt I bet Earth will take one for itself so that the Antartic outpost can protect our planet. Hopefully we don't fully drain any of the ZPMs as quickliy as we did with previous ones we got our hands on.

Now the using the shield as a giant ARG was a great idea. I was thinking that they should have done something similar to that before the episode. Though makes me sad I was able to predict how they would retake the city. I hate being able to do that. Well great episode in all can't wait for the completion of the midway space station. It may come useful in the future so I'm intrigued by it still.

9/10

Posted by: Revan Dec 5th 2006, 5:12 PM

The seeming leader of the Asurans was talking about how they killed all the Lantians...

Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Dec 5th 2006, 8:35 PM

Yes, Canada is indeed awesome! But I have no idea what you are talking about, you must have traveled to Canada or something, because the alternative is to do 'something that must not be mentioned', ever.

Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 7th 2006, 1:11 PM

This was indeed an ingeniously made episode IMO. The plan they made to take back Atlantis was simply a writer's heaven. McKay of course devised the best part of the plan, and I was simply expecting that. O'Neill rocked the episode, along with Woolsey.

If the writers could have done a perfect episode, this is the one... Great action, great strategy, great acting, great writing. All in all, ummm... the best episode of Atlantis ever made...

Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 17th 2006, 5:21 PM

I thought this ep was great. Jack was great, The plan was brilliant, I actually didn't see it coming. I absolutly loved seeing a jumper bay full of jumpers. It looks like RDA lost weight between his earlier cameos and this one. All and All, I think this was a great ep.

Posted by: baggers1982 Dec 17th 2006, 6:38 PM

i just thought RDA looked like he was getting on a bit. how old is he now anyways, jacks character that is, not Anderson,

As for the episode, it was quality. i loved the action scenes and especially the twist with the way they used the shields. a gem of an episode!!

Posted by: StarFighter Dec 19th 2006, 8:02 AM

I feel that The Return Part 1 was very rushed, very. And The Return Part 2 wasn't that good either. I could tell how Part 2 was going to end before I was even finished watching Part 1.



I am a huge fan of both SG-1 and Atlantis but I feel that after such a long run the shows have finally run out of good cliffhangers. In my opinion the best cliffhanger was Stargate Atlantis' The Siege (parts 1,2,3). The story was very exciting and kept you on the edge of your seat. Unfortunately I don't think they will ever come close to topping The Siege.

Posted by: magnavox Dec 19th 2006, 4:54 PM

There's been a few conflicting dates as to Jack's age. In Brief Candle he said he was 40 years old, which would make him 50 now. In Entity there's another date on his service record that conflicts, but I couldn't find a screencap with the res to read it. And, in Fragile Balance, his ID card states his birthday as 20/10/52 which would mean he is 54 years old. RDA is 56, and lookin' damn fine.

As for the underwater scenes, I read an article on Hugh Jackman where he was immensely praised for doing underwater stunts for X men 3 (I can't if they were similar or not, as I haven't seen it yet), and he's only in his 30's. It's a real credit to RDA to be doing the same thing at his age.

Posted by: Revan Dec 19th 2006, 5:28 PM

RDA did a damn fine job with his underwater work in this episode. I do not think I would be able to do that sort of stuff, it looks quite difficult.

When was Hugh Jackman underwater in X3?

Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 19th 2006, 9:51 PM

I've been trying to figure that out all day. I don't remember seeing it at all. I will have to fast forward through the DVD.

Posted by: baggers1982 Dec 20th 2006, 10:30 AM

Having trained as a life guard, i can honestly say that what RDA did isn't easy. especially at his age. hats off to him!!

so jack o'neil could be anywhere between 50 and 56 years old then,shouldn't he be retiring sometime soon, again!!

I cant remember any underwater scene in X3 either.

Posted by: magnavox Dec 23rd 2006, 12:42 AM

Whoops! Sorry guys, I ment The Fountain...don't know why I was thinking of X Men 3.

I would think Jack would want to be in the air force as long as he possibly could be, he's still got his wits about him (dispite the mind fart that was season 8 ), and he's obviously still pretty physically fit, why wouldn't they want to keep him around?

Posted by: dr lee Dec 26th 2006, 10:34 PM

Top-notch return (no pun intended) for the season.

RDA was on top form here, reminding me of him back before S6, his quips were great (i won't be surprised to find out that, during the mind reading scene the Asuran actors smile wasn't in the script). Loved the underwater sequence.

Woolsey cracked me up from his 'I can do this' chant, to the fact that they used him for dis-infomation.

LOVED the initial attack on the control room, especially the 'blink-and-you'll-miss-it' squashing of two or three Asurans with the PJ. The scenes of the PJ flying through the city were spectacular, along with the night time shots of the city.

for a second i did think that there was a problem when the 'rewind' started and i do think that was a little bit cheesy. Also the acting of the two main Asurans was wooden to say the least.

Over all i'd give it a 9.99/10.

Posted by: Lagger Jan 10th 2007, 6:25 AM

asurans dont act, they're robots, so thats why their acting sucked

as for the episode, i thought it was alright, no where near as good as last cliff hanger, the seige..

nice to see replicators being outsmarted though
Luv the RDA

Posted by: Joonas Jan 10th 2007, 9:27 AM

Wasn't it strange that the puddle jumper could take a hit of a drone with just minor damage? Shouldn't one drone be enough to punch through the shield (must be pretty weak since it's a modified cloaking shield) and pretty much vaporize the entire backside of the jumper?

Also, why did the drones not follow the jumper into the water?

Posted by: baggers1982 Jan 10th 2007, 9:41 AM

From what i can remember, the drone only clipped the PJ's shield rather than hit it straight on, so that probably why it wasn't as effective. It has been speculated that there might be some kind of built in system that makes ancients shields more effective against drones but there's no way to prove that.

As for the drones not going into the water, i guess they're not waterproof!!

Posted by: Joonas Jan 10th 2007, 3:12 PM

And still they fired drones into the water to shoot at the stardrive later in the ep ;)

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 10th 2007, 4:10 PM

The drones would have lost speed and momentum as they entered the water, the Jumper would have gotten away anyway.

I loved this episode, it was so much better than it's SG-1 counterpart, even though the events that took place at the conclusion weren't all that difficult to figure out. I'm glad that TPTB actually did something with RDA this time because his other appearances in season 9 and 10 of SG-1 were pointless.
I'd like to know where the underwater Jumper bay suddenly appeared from. As far as I know, it's the first time it has ever been mentioned.

Posted by: JC1 Jan 10th 2007, 4:35 PM

While I did enjoy the episode, I felt some things were resolved a bit too easily.

It started off well with Shepard blowing up the control tower, evading the drones and then O'Neill having to drain the jumper bay. I knew the plan Mckay was telling Woolsey and O'Neill was a decoy. The actual plan was little conveniant but I suppose it's how they've dealt with replcators in the past.

I wasn't overly impressed with the Pegasus Replicators. The original replicators seemed smarter and more dangerous.

I expected the rest of the team to get away with disobeying orders as their not military, but surely Shepard has done this once too often. Landry has already tried to get Shepard taken off the Atlantis expedition and promised to end his career in the previous episode. It all seems a bit easy that O'Neill can overrule and pretty much undermine Landry's authority. It would have been nice if Shepard had to face some sort of consequences for his actions.

And did they actually destroy the gatebridge?

Posted by: Revan Jan 10th 2007, 11:14 PM

Well RDA wanted to be back, and it is much less time overall, so he can put a lot more into each individual episode he does.

Well they said that they didn't know it existed... and just kinda found it. Rodney was able to access its remote door operation from his computer.



Not that we know of.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 11th 2007, 12:36 AM

Well, the asurans were roughly 11000 years old, I don't remember for sure, but I though the human form replicators had more time to advance because of the time dialation device.



It's called rank. O'Neill outranks Landry, so he's not undermining it.... he's overruling it.

EDIT: TYPO... thanks Marv

Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 11th 2007, 1:26 AM

How can the Asurans be only 1100 years old, when the Ancients were the ones to create them more than 10,000 years ago?

Also, there is no need to compare the Asurans with the human form replicators, because civilizations can always be separated by their goal... The Replicators were solely interested in multiplying and in conquest, while the Asurans are more calculated in their decisions, and in finding the right moment, they want to take revenge, and to be an advanced society at the same time copying what the Ancients once were.



That is not true. It is not the rank that overrules Landry, it is the position O'Neill has in connection to Washington. Otherwise, take note that O'Neill and Landry are the same rank.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 11th 2007, 1:49 AM

They hold the same military rank/title, but what I meant is that Jack is in a higher position than Landry. He gets the final say when it's down to the two of them. When two military officers have the same rank, but one has been made the superior for whatever reason, the term outrank is still valid.

Posted by: Otaku_Smeghead Jan 11th 2007, 2:40 AM

Okay Im confued I thought the return was shown on Sky a few days ago when did you guys watch this back in december and where did you watch it?

Posted by: dr lee Jan 11th 2007, 4:46 AM

It was aired in Canada a few weeks ago and i can't talk about how i watched the episode on this site

Posted by: JC1 Jan 11th 2007, 10:02 AM

I know O'Neill, as head of homeworld security, holds a higher position than Landry.

But Landry outranks Shepard, and he told Shepard if didn't turn around he'd finish his military career. Shepard acted against Landry's and O'Neills orders.

For O'Neill to turn around and just overrule Landry, undermines Landry's authority. Shepard was in the wrong, the least Landry could expect is for O'Neill to back him. In a military organization, disobeying a direct order is a serious offence, isn't it.

And, for Shepard, to continually disobey orders and never face any consequences is a bit unrealistic.

Posted by: glom Jan 11th 2007, 2:24 PM

Yes, it's the return of the Cynic's Copycat's reviews!

85% Damn fine work.

NOSTALGIA OF THE WEEK: RDA appearances in Atlantis have been more genuine than probably anything he did in his final two seasons on SG1. In this episode, his appearance was at full glory.

RESET BUTTON OF THE WEEK: It sure is convenient that the replicators are around when you start blowing up large parts of the city. They can repair it and make it as good as new.

NEW BALLISTICS OF THE WEEK: So what happened to the gate, which was at the epicentre of the explosion? It logically should have been blown across the city. That would have been funny... and potentially tactically interesting.

GENIUS OF THE WEEK: McKay knew his way around the bowels of the city awfully well given he hadn't been there before.

WHITEWASH OF THE WEEK: Someone should have some 'splaining to do about stealing a jumper, disobeying orders and all those other bad things.

ATLANTIS UNINTELLIGENCE OF THE WEEK: Leaving McKay alone with the Replicator was asking for trouble. Fortunately, he's improved somewhat and was able to avoid dying, but some backup would have been adviseable, even if it was only Beckett.

GOOD ENGINEERING OF THE WEEK: That science fiction writers have knowledge of the concept of a dead man's switch is a major step above average.

Posted by: Pegasus Angel Jan 11th 2007, 3:03 PM

Apparently if you disobey an order but risk your life, hold back a real threat and save the life of your superior at the same time, thats okay...

I'm taking it that in the real world you would still get pulled up on the disobeying bit??? Thats no fun...

Posted by: unseen_shadow Jan 14th 2007, 3:18 PM

First to explain the drones:

They drones were being controlled by sight, since the sensors were not operational.
Once the jumper went underwater it could not be followed.

Nitpick: why didn't one of the geniuses on earth, McKay at the time, Dr lee, Sam(if
not somewhere fighting Ori); think to have the Asgard send one ship to hit the whole
city at once with their super sized "ARG". That way nobody would be in trouble for
disobeying orders, and there would be a working star drive to relocate Atlantis; or...
use it to kick some major Lucian/Ori/Wraith... ass.

and with the speed of Asgard ships they may have even saved some Ancients

But I suppose this would have all been to easy so the writers had to have them do things like morons the hard way.

Oh the sacrifices we make to keep the story going

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 14th 2007, 3:51 PM

From a plot point of view because the Asgard have their own things to deal with, namely rebuilding their civilisation. How often have we seen them since season 8? Not much. They could only spare one ship to help defend against the Ori in 'Crusade'.
From an outside point of view because it would be too easy. There would have been no fun if all the team had to do was wait for Thor to drop by and use the ARG on the city.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 14th 2007, 4:25 PM

I don't know... The Asgard and the Ancients have been in an alliance for who knows how much. I bet the Asgard would be willing to have one of their ships available to save an Ancient city from occupation. And they did spare one of their ships for a simple delegation transport to Atlantis (Weir and Woolsey).

I say, these plot devices are starting to backfire a little.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 14th 2007, 5:12 PM

If the main character got fired for disobeying orders, then the show wouldn't be fun. Jack has been disobeying orders since before COTG.

Posted by: JC1 Jan 14th 2007, 7:32 PM

The main character doesn't have to be fired for disobeying orders, there are plenty of alternatives. Demotion, reassignment, releived of command, even it is just for a few episodes.


I don't remember Jack disobeying orders before COTG, but when he has disobeyed orders, he has usually done so to save Earth. When Sheppard has disobeyed orders in the past, it didn't work out so well, in fact it turned out pretty badly. But Sheppard has never been punished for disobeying orders, despite making a career of doing so.

Posted by: Revan Jan 14th 2007, 7:49 PM

That's right, we know Sheppard has been disobeying orders when he feels it is necessary since before the show even started. They made a point of mentioning it bluntly in Rising.

Shep didn't do so bad when he nuked that Hive ship...

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 14th 2007, 11:17 PM

Jack was supposed to nuke the Abydos gate. He did not. Then he lied about it to his superiors.

Posted by: JC1 Jan 15th 2007, 11:07 AM

Jack was supposed to use the nuke, only if he felt there was a threat from the otherside of the gate. And he did use the nuke to eliminate the threat, so he didn't really blatantly disobey any orders.

The only issue was that he somewhat lied about what actually happened.

Posted by: unseen_shadow Jan 15th 2007, 12:26 PM

Jack also retired right after, and they never found out until they needed him back.
Which would obviously be the worst time to fire him.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 15th 2007, 12:45 PM

OK, you are rationalizing what Jack did, because he saved the day, and they needed him.

Well, that's the same rationale that they used for Sheppard.

Posted by: unseen_shadow Jan 15th 2007, 12:47 PM

I'm just pointing out that they never had a chance to reprimand Jack even if they wanted to.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 15th 2007, 12:54 PM

The US government has no problems pressing charges against officers that are retired. The fact of the matter is, that they needed Jack, and we wouldn't be watching the show is Jack was around to be the main character. If Sheppard got demoted or fired, or transferred, then he would be able to remain LT. Col Sheppard, chief military officer of Atlantis.

Posted by: JC1 Jan 15th 2007, 1:35 PM

In " The Return" he disobeyed direct orders, stole Air Force property and assualted Air Force personel.

While O'Neill has been somewhat insubordinate in his career, he hasn't been nearly as insubordinate as Sheppard


Sheppard was chief military officer of Atlantis for a year as a Major. They could demote him back to major. Or they could leave him as Lt.Col and in command of his team and give command of Atlantis to Caldwell, as they originally planned.

Posted by: Lagger Jan 15th 2007, 7:44 PM

yeah they could demote him, give it to caldwell, and then a few episodes later, shepard does something amazing gets promted again, and becomes #1 once again...

Posted by: Revan Jan 15th 2007, 8:41 PM

Why would they do that?

Everybod ywould think it was pointless and irrelevent if they just promoted him again. It isn't something done arbitrarily or lightly.

Posted by: unseen_shadow Jan 15th 2007, 9:10 PM

True, I figure they will end up just putting it in a nice thick folder for Weir to pull out and throw at him in later sodes

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 16th 2007, 12:04 AM

I don't understand why you want him to be punished. It's the conviction of the character to do what he believes is right despite what others (including his/her superiors) think that makes us love characters like that. That's one reason why I love Jack Bauer. Besides the fact that he is so gangster that no one can stop him.


EDIT: I just had to bring up 24, it's so good...

Posted by: JC1 Jan 16th 2007, 8:34 AM

Don't get me wrong, I am a Sheppard fan, and a big Jack Bauer/24 fan, but Jack Bauer has had to face the consequences for a lot of the decisions he's made and there's been some pretty harsh consequences for Jack.

For Sheppard to continually break the rules and everybody pretend like it never happened just isn't as realistic, and I think would develop Sheppards character a bit more, if he did have to face some consequences.

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 16th 2007, 8:42 AM

There's also Sheppard's background to consider too. He was supposed to have been involved in a black market at some point in his career. If his record was clean up to the point where he joined the Atlantis expedition, I could understand how his actions could be disregarded to a certain extent but given his past isn't clean, I don't see how his superiors could just ignore his actions. The only person that has ever reprimanded him was Weir after the events of 'Hot Zone', where he once again disobeyed orders of his commander.
Caldwell seems to be the only Air Force officer who sees what Sheppard is really like.

Posted by: Revan Jan 16th 2007, 3:43 PM

When did we learn that?

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 16th 2007, 5:41 PM

It was in 'Rising' part 1:
O'Neill: You know I checked into his record.
Weir: I know about the whole supposed Black Market in Afghanistan he was trying to save the lives of three servicemen.
O'Neill: Disobeying a direct order in the process.

Posted by: JC1 Jan 16th 2007, 5:45 PM

Weir actually said "I know about the whole supposed Black Mark in Afghanistan he was trying to save the lives of three servicemen."

Meaning, I suppose, a black mark on his record.

Posted by: Revan Jan 16th 2007, 6:08 PM

Thats what I heard... he had a black mark on his record... because he disobeyed a direct order or something...

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 16th 2007, 6:16 PM

I heard black market and both Neoseeker and Gatenoise have transcripts with Wier saying "black market".

Posted by: JC1 Jan 16th 2007, 6:44 PM

The Gateworld transcript says "black mark."

Looking at it logically though, surely if Sheppard, an Air Force Major, was caught buying or selling things on the black market, he'd not only be kicked out of the Air Force, he'd be looking at jail time.

Also, I thought Sheppards flashback in "Phantoms" was the supposed "black mark" in Afghanistan.

Either way, Sheppard has had a rocky career in the Air Force. It's kind of surprising he has reached the rank of Lt.Col. when compared to Mitchell, who has an impeccable record.

Posted by: Revan Jan 16th 2007, 6:48 PM

I watched the episode a few weeks ago, and I remember hearing "supposed black mark in afghanistan"...

He disobeyed orders to go back and save the lives of three servicemen.

Posted by: Jade Jan 23rd 2007, 6:24 AM

What made this espisode good, Jack, Jack and a little bit a Woolsey. it was entertaining, and good way to round off the ZPM story, so they are not totally screwed.

RDA was so good in here (missed him so much ) and not the liitle guest scenes we had been watching in all the other apperances. Some real action and dialogues. I laughed in so many bits!

Posted by: kordone Jan 28th 2007, 11:07 PM

I was just wondering if the Asurans were able to rebuild Stargate Operations in a matter of hours and all that, how is it that they were not able to notice that the little blue anti-replicator crystals in the shield emitters?

Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 29th 2007, 12:22 AM

They weren't looking for them. They read Woosley's mind, and so they thought they knew exactly what they were looking for.

Posted by: kordone Jan 29th 2007, 12:29 AM

I understand that, but you would think they they would notice that something is there, that really shouldn't be.

Posted by: Revan Jan 29th 2007, 12:01 PM

They didn't look out of place.

Posted by: Gotanks Jan 29th 2007, 12:09 PM

Yeah, they were only looking for the C4 and probably just didn't notice the crystals.

Posted by: Space_butterfly Apr 13th 2007, 10:08 PM

Ah, how I've missed Jack All in all I thought it was a good episode. I was getting kinda tired of the city being blown to pieces (if the fights continue like this what will be LEFT of Atlantis) so it was comforting that the Replicators had repaired some of the damage.

I love Beckett (Jack's quip when he found out Beckett was with the others was great).

Loved how they used Woolsey (sp?) to expose the plan!

About next week's episode/trailer:

Posted by: soma_momma Apr 14th 2007, 12:00 AM

Jack looked like he was McGyver in the underwater scenes.
And Weir looked like a school girl hugging her TV idol in the last scene.

I don't understand how the replicators' repairs didn't disolve.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Apr 14th 2007, 12:12 AM

Jack is McGyver

The Asurans don't actually use their own parts to build things. They actually use raw materials.

Posted by: IndyJan Apr 14th 2007, 12:51 AM

Oh, be still my heart, my Jack is back! Finally after all these months the show returns. Darn that sci-fi channel.

I loved this episode. It had everything. RDA was not just a cameo appearance. Jack was back in action. He did look like MacGyver under that water, didn't he?

Shep did some pretty good flying around those drones. I do like to see the jumper in action at times.

Poor Woolsey, gets no respect, LOL! I loved the plan and how they ended up showing it to the audience. Plan A, B, C, D, I think that might be an "F," LOL!

Beckett got to show his ability with the ancient gene. He didn't hesitate, just did it.

Jack had his comic moments, but his serious moments as well. I did like his last scene with Weir. Then when Jack spoke to Caldwell, "general O'neill here, is that good enough?"

Posted by: Kate Apr 14th 2007, 1:54 AM

Good ep. Loved Jack's reaction to Beckett! Yeah, Woolsey got the short end of the stick on that one. LOL Jack's comment to Woolsey after they got out of the cell......too funny. Rodney's such a wimp......it cracks me up! I don't know about next week's ep though.

Posted by: Sylver Apr 14th 2007, 6:19 AM

If this sets the tone for the rest of the season, I'm in! Man, I can't believe how much I enjoyed that episode. Or how much I laughed throughout. I adore Jack, and was thrilled to see the irreverent Col. I love back. The faults I found with the ep was my lack of memory on how they explained the Assurians vs our galazy replicators, but I'll have to read through the original ep's messages, and Weir's outright dismissal of Ronan's plan. He did offer her an option, which she completely ignored and then asked for options. Truly hysterical when he snipped, 'I just gave you one'.

All in all, I'm mad that SciFi waited to damn long to show us these episodes, but I'd say it's been worth the wait.

Posted by: Dafmeister Apr 14th 2007, 6:39 AM

They used parts of their own ship to repair the control tower of Atlantis.


They haven't explained it yet. People have speculated on how the Milky Way/Ida Replicators came out but there is no official explanation yet.

Posted by: Sylver Apr 14th 2007, 8:56 AM

And that explains why I couldn't remember. I much prefer them not saying than me forgetting. Thanks!

Also need to add that I found Woosey as hilarious in this as when I'm mocking him in other episodes. I know he tries to be serious, but he's so far out of his element it's just too funny. His being used aside, he knew his own weakness and did a pretty good job overall.



Am just now reading through all the other posts. And I have to agree. Sheppard doesn't seem like a Lt. Col. candidate, or even a promotional candidate, let alone someone to send on such a top secret mission. Caldwell is a great colonel, maybe not for actually leading a SG Team, but he's extremely good at what he does, otherwise why give him command of the Daedalus? Of course, I could be biased. I freely admit to not liking Sheppard, but given the evidence he's far from the person I'd want leading a team who continually make contact with other cultures.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Apr 14th 2007, 10:52 AM

Yeah, why would you want someone brave, cunning, highly intelligent, with good morals and integrity?

Posted by: JC1 Apr 14th 2007, 12:18 PM

Well I do like Shepard, but find it hard to accept the Military continulally letting him get away with disobeying orders and commiting some serious offences. It doesn't seem realistic.

But he was only sent on the Atlantis mission because of his natural proficiency with Ancient tech. And the military weren't originally going to promote him Lt.Col. It was only after Weir, who was backed ny the Presidient and the IOA, insisted on it, that Sheppard was promoted.

Posted by: Sylver Apr 14th 2007, 1:08 PM

I never said he wasn't, and I agree that he does possess those qualities. I just said that he isn't Lt. Col. material. Weir's backing of him aside, you can like someone, respect them for the characteristics they possess which you do not, but that doesn't make it the right choice. In my opinion, Sheppard isn't the right choice for this job. I know a lot of people with those same characteristics, but they wouldn't make good military leaders such as this job requires.



And therein lies my issues with him. Then again, this is a TV show, and how realistic are they, really?

Posted by: JTMAG1 Apr 14th 2007, 4:55 PM

I was responding specifically to

I'm not sure how you can say that he wasn't Lt. Col material. He did a fantastic job, and he was promoted one rank.

Posted by: Dafmeister Apr 14th 2007, 5:33 PM

In 'Intruder' he wasn't going to be promoted. Another officer was in line to take command of Atlantis' military but Weir insisted Sheppard got the job. The military clearly didn't have faith in him and without Weir's support he may not have remained in the city.

Posted by: soma_momma Apr 14th 2007, 7:28 PM

But isn't the replicators' ship made of replicators too? I recall seeing replicator ships dissolving with Daniel Jackson onboard when Carter got the disruptor to work in a previous SG ep.

Posted by: ancient01 Apr 15th 2007, 9:18 AM

Jack made this episode work. It made me realize how much he's missed. It set up some cool opportunities for the rest of the season. I'm excited. Thumbs up!!

Posted by: startreksuite Apr 19th 2007, 8:37 PM

Great episode, loved the O'Neill/Wolsey team. That plan the Atlantis team executed was awesome! I didn't see a way the replicators could be fooled, nor did I think Jack would be able to hold his breath long enough to open the hatch. Awesome episode!

P.S. If anyone is concerned about misspelling here, check out ieSpell! I know some members have been criticized for spelling mistakes, and it gives you piece of mind that your spelling is correct!

Posted by: thefirstone Apr 20th 2007, 9:51 AM

I just watched this episode againg and I think that RDA was alot better than was(not including Seasons 1-5), he put that little bit more effrot into scene and it shines through. Hated the Ancients though, their arrogance really pisses me off, we saved their city and they kicked us out. It didn't seem that they were all that grateful.

Posted by: Dafmeister Apr 20th 2007, 10:20 AM

A lot of people have noticed the same thing. To me, it looked like he was actually enjoying himself while filming this episode. In seasons 9 and 10 of SG-1 he didn't look happy with what he was given.

Posted by: IndyJan Apr 21st 2007, 9:23 PM

I agree that RDA was back in form for this episode. In season 9 they only used him in a cameo appearance and that just did not work. But, unlike some, I loved him in Seasons 6 & 8. As far as season 7, that was a hit and miss for me in all regards.

Posted by: cosmos Jun 13th 2007, 5:00 AM

I am so glad to how this episode played out and RDA was very good. Just like the old times.

I agree with putting on more effort into the work and how relaxed he was with being O'Neill again.

The thing he said about being retired and not being workaholic or anything but he liked coming back to work from time to time (paraphrasing) was hilarious and I wondered if that was adlibed and he was talking for himself and not O'Neill.

Very happy with it.
I so hope he will be back in Season 4 too.