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Stargate Information Archive _ SG-1 Season 7 _ 719 - Resurrection

Posted by: Arcady Feb 17th 2004, 4:18 PM

Episode 19 - Resurrection
Air Date: (UK) February 17, 2004
Air Date: (US) Feburary 27, 2004

SG-1 investigates when the NID becomes involved in genetic research.

http://www.sg1archive.com/s7credits.shtml#719 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=4954 | http://www.sg1archive.com/teasers/719.html

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)

Posted by: Aesir Feb 17th 2004, 4:32 PM

I thought this episode was pretty good (better than the last two at least), with a lot of the usual stuff that makes a Stargate SG-1 episode good for me. There were a lot of ethical questions raised in this episode, as well as a lot of past events addressed and of course suspense.

We had Daniel playing the moral role for most of the episode and I thought Michael Shanks did a decent job. Jack was very absent and they were obviously using his injury as yet another excuse to let him have less air time. What I thought was missing most however was for Sam to be the one messing with the bomb rather than Dr. Lee.

Before seeing this episode I thought that it was going to be just yet another episode where they find another Goa'uld on Earth, but it had a major twist and I always like the scientific ones I found it really interesting how they were experimenting with the genetic memory and it gives hope in other areas, like doing the same with the Tok'ra to preserve them, or maybe even altering the genetic memories to "fix" Goa'ulds further down the line.

I think they did well casting for Anna as she did look very innocent as intended and played the role really well. I did however have a problem with the "evil scientist" character. I think they really over did this to the point where it was kind of like a cliche/stereotype. Okay, he had to be very twisted to do what he did, but I just thought they could have made him less eerie/evil and achieved a better effect by focusing more on his dedication to his work and the ultimate goal of defending Earth. I know they tried to imply that he was doing it to save the Earth, but his character just made it seem like he was enjoying it too much for this to be the main reason.

A few nitpicks... How was Anna able to overpower all those people? She also overpowered Daniel and the guards. Okay, she has the Goa'uld genetic memory but she shouldn't be any stronger. The only explanation I can think of is that it was a result of the cloning, but I see no reason why they would give her enhanced strength. Also, that fire started flaring up way too quickly for me. We see a shot of her lighting one bit and then a second later the entire thing is up in flames.... did she have alcohol in there to pass the time or something?

Overall, quite good and I'd give it 7/10.

Posted by: stargatesweetie Feb 17th 2004, 4:33 PM

I quite enjoyed this episode though I thought that it borrowed heavily from the X-files genre-not that that is a bad thing
As usual though Teal'c seemed to spend what little time he was in the episode saying "Indeed" and basically having very little to do. As I feared in another thread, RDA was only in the opening credits-this does not bode well for next season.
Anyhoo, the story was good and not too much of an anti- climax after last weeks events. Daniel bonded with her (Anna) and Sam managed to pull! (Sam, love, you chose the wrong fella!)

Posted by: lord yu Feb 17th 2004, 4:34 PM

good episode but was it me or did it seem a little too quick to end ?

Posted by: PinkPeril Feb 17th 2004, 5:14 PM

Hmmm. Was that The X-Files without Mulder and Scully or Stargate without the Stargate?!?! Felt like a hybrid episode of the two shows about a human/alien hybrid. Whatever next? Near indestructible super-soldiers? - hang on a minute!!!!!!!!

P!$$ take aside - AT did a cracking job directing, and as a fan of both shows it of worked for me and I enjoyed the suspense and drama - but wasn't Stargate.

Kudos to them all for making us look like idiots, wetting our pants over the SC/DJ kiss!!! It would have really messed up the direction of the show, glad it didn't happen.

I think this episode has left us with addition fears about the Gou'ald and they can crop up anywhere, plus the rouge NID and what trouble their prattish behaviour could get us into. Also, it has opened up a lot of possibilities for the future.

Best line:

SC: It's just, I'm seeing someone
AB (surprised): Really, you?
SC (indignantly): You asked me out!

Now that's SC attitude! Bring it back!

Posted by: Raxor Feb 17th 2004, 5:28 PM

much better than the last two
*** for me

liked the story, i enjoyed smoke an mirrors last season, and i like the way it ended, without much warning. love the nid stories, and i hate them even more.
and the reprocussions of absolute power was good to see

a very good episode
and only 3 left. lets hope they are better!

Posted by: Albion Feb 17th 2004, 5:47 PM

Well.

I've been saying all week that I wasn't expecting much from this episode, but you know it didn't totally suck. It was...okay.

On the whole though for me it was pretty...bland. A nothing episode. I got no sense of jeopardy from the bomb scenario (how many dangerous bombs about to explode is that they've stopped at the last minute now?), I never felt any tension or drama as events unfolded, my emotions weren't engaged enough to feel very sorry or much concern for Anna, there were a couple of mildly amusing lines of dialogue, but they made me smile rather than chuckle...it was just pretty mediocre. I didn't hate it, but I didn't love it either. I thought it was rather slow all the way through then ended with a sudden burst as though someone had realised they had five minutes left to tie up all the loose ends.

I thought the girl playing Anna was pretty poor in the acting stakes. I think. It occurs to me that it might not have been that she acted the part like a snail on valium but that this was a deliberate choice by TPTB to make her that low key. So I might be judging her unfairly there. Whatever it was, acting or direction, the differences in Anna and the Goa'ould barely registered and I got absolutely no real sense of menace from the Goa'ould half of the personality at all.

Agent Barrett deserved everything he got. Doesn't he know that if you go down the cellar stairs in the dark while hunting the bad guy, said bad guy will snag your ankle and pitch you down them head first? Eeesh. Hasn't he watched that movie? And he's joined in the Agent Idiot awards - joint first prize winner - by the guard. That was the easiest escape since Tanith killed three Tok'ra while two of them were several feet away. (Apparently they just stood there watching him choke their colleague to death and then go after them one by one...)

One thing I was very impressed with on this one was Amanda Tapping's direction. There were some very interesting direction choices in the episode which really stood out.

I liked the 'well you asked me out' scene - even if it did remind me that Pete's still hovering in the background.

I agree with the posters noting the XF connection. There were times when I did wonder which show I was watching. And that made me realise something. It seems to me that this season we've had more episodes based almost entirely at the SGC or on Earth than any other season ever had. I'm not one of those who demands that they go through the Stargate every single episode and some of those SGC/Earth episodes have been among my very favourites at times. But even so, I'm starting to get rather tired of them not being offworld. Some more variety please, TPTB!

Sure there were other things which will occur to me later.

Albion

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 17th 2004, 6:43 PM

What did I learn from watching Stargate tonight?

Well for starters I learnt that Michael Shanks has not only seen Silence of the Lambs but that he was a big X Files fan too! It's the only explanation. Not that there's anything wrong with that. If you're going to pay homage to something it might as well be one of the best ever TV series of all time.

I also learnt that Amanda Tapping is pretty damn handy behind the camera. The direction certainly seemed top notch to me, and even lifted the plot in several places where it might otherwise have been a little too talky. I partuclarly liked the long opening shot where the camera pans down and inside to building. I know she mentioned it in an interview but it really was a lovely shot. I remember her mentioning that she was trying to get a sense of movement too and I think she probably suceeded there. I quite liked the way it occasionally cut between slow movement shots to still shots too as this created interest. Ok, I'll stop with the arty farty AT sucking up now!

Plotwise this is probably not everyones cup of tea. No real action, no people shooting people with big guns, no Stargate, not a great deal of humour...but from a story point of view it was pretty good and solid. It had a great sci fi base concept to build on and previous events featured nicely and in context within the story, which is always nice to see. Also, you can see potential development of the story line for the future too.
If I had to pick a nit then it would be that Teal'c kind of faded into the background. I know he was helping out with the bomb thing but he really just stood around and said "Indeed." MS must suffer Teal'c Wallpaper Syndrome just like all those lovely fanfic authors out there!
The other nit would be the whole bomb part of the plot itself. Not to be insensitive but who really cares if hundreds of people are going to die if it goes off? I mean our guys, we know, will be ok because you stick in a throwaway comment about a helicopter on standby. Basically I care about them being in peril, not countless masses I've never met. Might have been more exciting if they'd let the bomb actually go off...maybe the budget couldn't quite make it to several square miles of prime real estate being blown to smithereens though.

And all that speculation over that snog...heh! What snog. Sorry Daniel/Sam shippers. Not even a hug

So all in all I thought it was a pretty good episode, pretty well written on the whole and a very good first directorial attempt by AT.

Posted by: Albion Feb 17th 2004, 7:53 PM

QUOTE

I partuclarly liked the long opening shot where the camera pans down and inside to building.

I really enjoyed the quirky little moments. The reflection of Anna in Daniel's glasses and the sudden focus shift onto his eye when he's watching the tape and the moment where he's talking to Anna in her cell and we don't see her but see her reactions through her reflection in the glass next to him as though they're standing side by side, just to mention two. All very, very stylish! Our Amanda's obviously very talented in this department.

One other thing I did love and forgot to mention earlier was Daniel rushing into the interrogation room. Growly Daniel! Now I could do with seeing more of him. <g>

Albion

Posted by: kitsune Feb 17th 2004, 8:48 PM

enh,
At least it started out well.
I wasn't real impressed with the guard thing, or the bomb either, or the whole end for that matter. I can't think of a better way to end the Anna thing, but it was very unsatisfying.
So can we "interface with crystals" by wrapping a little wire around them? Didn?t it look more high tech in the past? And I distinctly remember carter saying something to the effect of it being hard.
4/10

Posted by: Mike Feb 18th 2004, 1:23 AM

First off I want to say that Amanda Tapping did a great job in directing the episode. Pretty good for a first time run.

The episode was very interesting and unique. It seemed like there were influences from other shows and movies such as Species, Silence Of The Lambs and The X-Files. It definitely had an X-Files feel to it. The chemistry between Carter and Barrett reminded me of Mulder and Scully. Not dead ringers, just bell ringers.

Daniel trying to get through to Anna is vintage Daniel. Just like the time he tried to get through to Reese and the narcesis (sp) child. Alot of references to past episodes to remind us of who they are and what they do best. Very well written.

This was more the 'digging to get to the truth' type of episode and explores the evils that humanity will do in order to fulfill a good intention. A theme very similar to that of 2010, 2001 and The Other Side. My favorite type of episode.

And to those who thought Anna should have lived, it was best that the character was killed off. Both the mad scientist nor Anna could not be part of a positive outcome had they lived.

Posted by: Raz Feb 18th 2004, 1:45 AM

I didn't think the episode was up to scratch. Wasn't really impressed at all.

"OOh look a bomb..."
"I think they are deactivation codes"
"OOh its off!"

It wasn't tense in the slightest!
The fact that the goa'uld clone Anna set fire to her cell was obvioudly a tactic to get out, and what happened...they let her! Shouldn't they have been a little cautious pointing a gun at her or something?
The scientist guy was no better, I thought it was crap acting to be quite honest.
I thought it was a good storyline though, and good directing from AT. If it had been developed a lot more, it could have been better.

Episode gets a 4/10 for me.
Inauguration next week...another 'looking back into the past' episode...
I enjoyed disclosure so I'll have to wait and see....

Posted by: Aesir Feb 18th 2004, 4:21 AM

QUOTE (Majikthize @ Feb 17 2004, 11:43 PM)

The other nit would be the whole bomb part of the plot itself. Not to be insensitive but who really cares if hundreds of people are going to die if it goes off? I mean our guys, we know, will be ok because you stick in a throwaway comment about a helicopter on standby. Basically I care about them being in peril, not countless masses I've never met.

This is a pretty good point. The mention of the helicopter pretty much removed a lot of the tension and suspense from the episode, although clearly there were still people in danger so it wasn't too bad. I kind of agree that the episode would have been better off without this comment and making us think that SG-1 were in danger too. Then again, writing like that can be be a little counter-productive because in the end, we usually know that SG-1 aren't going to die. With how Michael Shanks wrote it, it was at least more plausible that the bomb might have gone off.

Posted by: Arcady Feb 18th 2004, 4:54 AM

The episode starts off saying "Los Angeles" and later the guy says "how many people are in Orange County?"

Excuse me, but Los Angeles is not in Orange County. This error is more stupid than the "no zoo in Colorado Springs" error. What is so hard about looking up facts for these writers?

If I wanted to watch the X-files, I would. At least they could figure out what county a city is in.

Posted by: The Doctor Feb 18th 2004, 5:25 AM

I didnt like it either. Where DID that photo come from (someone faking it to put off the shippers, no doubt).
Thought Anna was crap. Scientist was a half mold of Drama characters (particulary Salazar in 24). Only good bits were Teal'c and the other guy with the bomb.

Overall, good ideas poorly used. Michael-strike 1

Posted by: Aesir Feb 18th 2004, 6:35 AM

QUOTE (The Doctor @ Feb 18 2004, 10:25 AM)

I didnt like it either. Where DID that photo come from (someone faking it to put off the shippers, no doubt).

No, I think it was real, just not part of any episode. I recall that Amanda Tapping stated in a live chat that it was just her and Michael Shanks fooling around on set. I guess they thought that it would be a good fake teaser for the fans too (and they were right!) - they have done this kind of thing before. It does however make me wonder what else they get up to on set... especially since they are both (to my knowledge) romantically involved with other people.

Posted by: ramuund Feb 18th 2004, 7:29 AM

QUOTE (Arcady @ Feb 18 2004, 04:54 AM)

This error is more stupid than the "no zoo in Colorado Springs" error. What is so hard about looking up facts for these writers?

So.....there is, I take it, a zoo in Colorado springs?

lol.

The directing, on A.T's part, was very well done and as i have not been reading spoilers, as i have learned my lesson, i didn't realise it was her directing. But very well done miss Tapping.

My memory is a little misty, as no blank tapes to record on, but i think my favourite shot was the bit where, Daniel, agent and sam, walk into the room with a close up of there back view and pans out to show the 'cage'. Please correct me, nicely, if i am wrong.

The characters in the story, meaning Daniel and sam, was there usual roles. Daniel was the morals and sam the 'book worm' who, i am sure, is the type that loved revision back in high school.....However, may i stress, that it was high class performances for them and that I loved the tryst between Sam and the Agent.

Teal'c actually, personally to me, did all that the character could do to add to the story. I am not a believer in adding them in just to have them there...he was fun to watch with the scientist ( sorry about lack of names) and i loved the 'give me five bit'- you would think teal's new of that classic by now!

The episode, when i had stopped watching it left....well nothing. This was nothing to do with the acting or directing but i think more the writing. A director can only work with the script that they have been given and i think a, had i'd written the episode ( god help us!), i would have added a few extra scenes to add a little 'umph' and tension to the story.

I will give this episode a 7/10.

the credits going to A.T and, compared with other posters, to the creepiest, baddest, slimy, son of a b**ch that stargate could of used...the Doc- he scared me! lol

Posted by: Kree! Feb 18th 2004, 8:12 AM

I thought this episode was poor, granted it has been better than some of the eps but not as good as it used to be.

Nice to see Dr lee again... but i think next weeks episode will kill Stargate Sg1 off now that it is going to be in a different 'universe' as the new President comes in.

R.I.P Stargate

Posted by: jaffagod Feb 18th 2004, 8:15 AM

There's not much left to say about this, everyone else has mentioned everything so i'll be brief. Good directing, it helped what was, in my opinion, a very bad plot. We've already had almost this exact plot before...on many occasions. The same basic plot was in evidence in 605 - Nightwalkers, in 703 - Fragile Balance and many others. Come on Michael (Shanks), this is wearing a bit thin now, we need new and different episodes. Leave it to Chris and the wriers to write episodes.( By plot I mean cloning and its repercussions.)

Although we have seen this story many times before, it wasn't all that bad in the end. My main gripe was that this seemed to be more of a way to waste an hour on a Tuesday Night rather than something which is going to advance the plot, as many episodes this season have been. It has also been mentioned about the excessive amount of Earth-based episodes that there has been this season, I am holding out hope that this may be a way to save money, as no trip through the Gate means no world to show on the other side which will, usually, save money. Lets hope that this allowed them to spend a lot on the season finale.

Back to the topic, it seemed like a nothing episode but it wasn't terrible, it wasn't original but what was there was done well enough. 6/10. Lets hope that the quality picks up with only 3 to go .

Posted by: Arcady Feb 18th 2004, 8:39 AM

QUOTE (ramuund @ Feb 18 2004, 07:29 AM)

You know Michael Shanks wrote this episode, right?

Posted by: Albion Feb 18th 2004, 8:59 AM

QUOTE

You know Michael Shanks wrote this episode, right?

I personally don't think he so much wrote it as scribbled it on the back of an envelope during his coffee break. It was very average writing imo. Done much better in Menace, where the relationship between Daniel and Reece was poignant, agonising, touching and amusing in perfect balance. Here it just wasn't written well enough to engage the emotions. Well, it didn't for me anyway, as I've said previously.

When I watched the episode and posted first it had escaped my attention that it was MS who wrote the script. Now that I've been reminded of that, I'm even more disappointed than previously. I really expect better from someone who knows the characters and the show so well.

Maybe he was suffering from nearing the end of the season lethargy or something. It happens.

Albion

Posted by: ted_simple Feb 18th 2004, 9:34 AM

Wow the first time Germany is mentioned in the series, and it's about a war criminal's son... I'm really disappointed. A colleague told me yesterday that the only thing Americans associate with Germany is World War II. Seems as if she was right. Yeah Germans don't have a conscience of course... I have never ever heard about the atrocities of an immoral son of a Nazi war criminal in real life. Just to let you know... genetic research is much more restricted in Germany because of moral issues than in the US (I don't know about Canada). Leaving the nationality aside, I just don't think there are still sons of Nazi war criminals out there undertaking terrible experiments on humans, it's really a myth - and an outdated one.

I agree there was little tension, and the end came too sudden, like in a bad x-files episode. And everyone knew in the end Anna would take revenge and kill off her own creator. So what we wanted to know was what ELSE would happen, well little did.

I'm thinking of a statement from one of the directors, I've forgotton his name... he said the ideal length would be 70 mins per episode. I think that becomes evident when we look at this episode: nobody really cares when Anna dies, because there wasn't enough time to develop the relationship between her and Daniel. We really don't learn much about her before she's gone.

Posted by: ramuund Feb 18th 2004, 9:52 AM

QUOTE (Arcady @ Feb 18 2004, 08:39 AM)

You know Michael Shanks wrote this episode, right?

When he was asked about it, this was when i met him, he said that he had found it alot harder than he thought and that he needed alot of help. It is his first try and it wasn't that bad and he did have other writers with him so they must shoulder it aswell.

...and is there a zoo in colorado springs?

....seriously, it's bugging me!

Posted by: Cirus Feb 18th 2004, 10:44 AM

I thought it didn't suck to much AT's directing was good however the story ended to quickly but i haven't decided who's fault that is yet. However i could of fallen asleep for some of it (blame it on the jet lag) Will say more when i can put together whole sentences

Posted by: Albion Feb 18th 2004, 11:42 AM

QUOTE

This is interesting. Thanks for the info. For some reason, I had the impression that MS had written at least one episode before. Don't know where that came from, but it was obviously wrong.

So this was his first attempt then. Well, that puts a slightly different light on it. He obviously doesn't have that much of a talent for writing scripts, as he seems to have realised himself from these comments. No shame in that. We can't all be writers. But it's a shame that the result was fans having to watch a pretty lacklustre episode, all the same.

But, again, for me, it wasn't a terrible episode. Just average and one that didn't engage me much. Certainly not the worst I've seen. (Disclosure still holds that record for me. <G>)

Albion

Posted by: S.K Feb 18th 2004, 12:29 PM

That's it!!!!!

I am NEVER reading spoilers again!!!
This would have been a pretty darn good episode had my thirst for SG1 info not led me to the spoiler sections. Grrrrrr. From the beginning the words "where are the clones, where are the clones" plagued my very being quashing all potential for suspense and intrigue. From now on I shall exercise restraint and shall overt my eyes from the temptations of the alluring spoiler. From this day forth I am spoiler free!

....and therefore shall enjoy SG1 the way it's meant to be enjoyed.

Can't wait for the next few eps

--------------------------------------------------
To Sci-Fi is not to geek but to Future Freak

Posted by: Arcady Feb 18th 2004, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (ramuund @ Feb 18 2004, 09:52 AM)

...and is there a zoo in colorado springs?

....seriously, it's bugging me!

Answer is here: http://www.cmzoo.org/

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 18th 2004, 1:33 PM

Hmm, mixed feelings about this episode. It was a good story line, but it definitely needed more episodes dedicated to it.

I thought the combination of Michael writing the ep and Amanda directing worked well. Big down side - no RDA.

Posted by: Major Sam Carter O'Neill Feb 18th 2004, 1:41 PM

This for me was average, good directing yadda yadda,storyline wore a bit thin near the end and could have had plenty more in it too really compete with other episodes!!
But the one thing that really did crack me up was the fact that in my weelly TV magazine under this episode it said with Richard Dean Anderson and he wasn't in in not even once!! or if you love him as i do, but i look at it positivily(sp) it means that hopefully he will be in The Lost City more since he had an episode off! *prays that this is true*7
Thats all folks!!

Posted by: ThreeFriesShortOfAHappyMealWacko Feb 18th 2004, 2:12 PM

I think the writers wanted to write a boring episode instead of the other ones done for the season so far.

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 18th 2004, 2:19 PM

QUOTE (ThreeFriesShortOfAHappyMealWacko @ Feb 18 2004, 08:12 PM)

I think the writers wanted to write a boring episode instead of the other ones done for the season so far.

1. Michael Shanks wrote this episode, not the usual writers.

2. If anything the episodes written by the cast have been far better than those by the usual writers.

3. Just because you comment is short dont make the size bigger and put it in green.

Posted by: Reshef Feb 18th 2004, 2:50 PM

I tend to agree, I specially like the CJ scripts... Those tend to being out Teal'c's better qualities and allows you to see a different side of him. Generically this looks to be a great episode.....I am suprised that it is not available for download yet......can't wait to see it.

Posted by: ted_simple Feb 18th 2004, 5:40 PM

QUOTE

I am suprised that it is not available for download yet......can't wait to see it.

I've posted the url of my site in the off topic/episode download section last week, where I've listed some sites who are offering downloads quite fast. Might want to check them out.

Posted by: ramuund Feb 18th 2004, 5:57 PM

QUOTE (Arcady @ Feb 18 2004, 12:36 PM)

Answer is here: http://www.cmzoo.org/

There says there is an error......

Posted by: Tanwen O'Neill Feb 18th 2004, 6:43 PM

I agree with what most people have said. Techincally good ep, nothing special, good for ATs first directing gig (says she whos not intierly sure what directors actually do other than shout a lot), but just didnt really catch my interest, and it seemed to drag on a bit, maybe cause I knew what was coming Good to watch once, but not one I'm gunna put on repeat.

Posted by: Vesian Feb 18th 2004, 10:15 PM

The last three episodes have been VERY low-budget, and it shows. Almost completely devoid of special effects (with the exception of the small battle during Hero's: Part 2, but I wouldn't really call that a full-out battle), no stargate, and even worse, no Richard Dean Anderson. This trend is going to be followed 10 fold in the next episode, Inaguration, which is, quite obviously, a dreaded clip show. What does this mean to me?

Means that they have such a big surplus of money, they probably poured it ALL into those last two episodes, which leads me to state six words:

I WANT TO SEE IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: weirdling Feb 18th 2004, 10:16 PM

QUOTE

A colleague told me yesterday that the only thing Americans associate with Germany is World War II. Seems as if she was right.

It's not the only thing, but it's certainly the most salient thing. The genocide of several millions and the murders of millions of others tend to leave a lasting "black mark" on a country's reputation. I just can't seem to casually dismiss these facts when Germany comes to mind, blame it on my "moral American upbringing."

QUOTE

I have never ever heard about the atrocities of an immoral son of a Nazi war criminal in real life.

Really? Have you heard about the stargate on the news lately? There is a reason why this show genre is called science fiction, you know.

QUOTE

I just don't think there are still sons of Nazi war criminals out there undertaking terrible experiments on humans, it's really a myth - and an outdated one.

It is a fact that many Nazi war criminals fled to South America and the Middle East after WWII to avoid punishment. So I can think of several reasons that would lead you to the above mode of thinking:
1) These escaped Nazis either couldn't or wouldn't have any children, hence no immoral sons. This possibility seems very improbable.
2) The Nazis turned out to be really ethical parents, and taught their children to value human life, the principles of equality, fraternity and etc. Therefore, their children couldn't possibly grow up to be like them. Somehow I don't think so....
3) you have information about the past and current activities of Nazi criminals' descendants.
4) you don't have any info on the war criminals or their progeny and simply don't want anything negative to be associated with the word "Germany."

I think the latter is the case.

Posted by: Sam's Sister Feb 19th 2004, 12:43 AM

QUOTE (Majikthize @ Feb 17 2004, 03:43 PM)

Not to be insensitive but who really cares if hundreds of people are going to die if it goes off?... Might have been more exciting if they'd let the bomb actually go off...maybe the budget couldn't quite make it to several square miles of prime real estate being blown to smithereens though.

Ahem, that prime real estate is in MY backyard, thank you very much! This episode was set in the middle of the Los Angeles Metropolitan area. Since Stargate is supposed to be set in current times, I think we could take just a little more interest in keeping that bomb from going off! I sort of felt that SG1 was just a little too nonchalant about that...I guess this happens a little too often for them to get too worried.

And thank you, Arcady, for pointing out that Los Angeles is NOT in Orange County. Wonder if that was Shanks' mistake or someone else's? For geographic clarity, Orange County neighbors Los Angeles County to the southeast -- and probably would have been affected had the bomb been as powerful as Sam estimated. I had to chuckle at the idea of them trying to evacuate all of L.A. County. We are talking about 9 1/2 million people!

Other than that, I did like the episode well enough after I got over the initial shock that they did not deal with anyone's grief over the outcome of the previous episode. Just business as usual. Definitely NOT in character, but then I understand that Shanks started writing this episode over a year ago, so the problem is in its placement more than anything else.

I am more than a little annoyed that if they were going to introduce Pete, they only chose to mention him again in the context of Agent Barrett asking Sam out. How odd that we didn't hear her telling her father about him or perhaps telling Emmett Bregman (film-maker in 717-18) that she was "seeing someone" to get him to stop prying about her relationship with Jack. Very strange.

I liked the genetic research angle of this episode. It figures that the ethically-challenged NID would try something like this to try to obtain the information they needed. I think the mention of some Nazi connection was completely unnecessary. As if the U.S. hasn't conducted plenty of its own unethical experiments over the years? Not to mention the completely overlooked American Eugenics program that was going strong at the same time that Germany was developing theirs (in fact, the leaders of the movements in both countries were colleagues and corresponded frequently). I'm glad that Stargate has mentioned Eugenics in at least 2 previous episodes.

I enjoyed AT's directing and MS's role in this. It it good to see Daniel in his morally indignant mode again. I also agree that we need more of Teal'c not just in this episode, but all episodes. Not to mention Jack!

Posted by: Kromando33 Feb 19th 2004, 1:25 AM

yer i liked this one, that goa'uld bomb was pretty cool & it just had a great story, if you can believe it i didn't even notice that RDA wasn't in this episode untill afterwards & thought hey rd wasn't in that ep, i guess it's coz were used to seeing so little of rd in sg1 these days. A real shame he would have made that ep even better than it already was. But on another point their must be tons of undiscovered canobic jard with goa'uld symbiot in them around on earth still.

Posted by: Cirus Feb 19th 2004, 7:28 AM

From my limited knowledge of LA Orange County is next to disneyland and is credited as being in LA as LA is about 80 differant cities all mixed together. I could draw a map but my drawing is not that good and i really can't be bothered

As aside note if anyone has already said this I do apologies MS had story credit for Evolution and wrote the treatment for that. Also I think he helped with Crystal skull but not sure how much though 719 was his first full script

Posted by: Bonzai Feb 19th 2004, 8:18 AM

It a nice frist try Shanks On the story But a better for dircteding form Amanda .. I hope ... we will see more dircteding form her .

Posted by: Albion Feb 19th 2004, 9:39 AM

QUOTE

1. Michael Shanks wrote this episode, not the usual writers.

Actually, from what I've been reading on other forums, that's only partly true, it seems, and I may owe MS a bit of an apology.

This seems to have been a committe episode in part. As I understand it, from comments MS apparently made at a convention, he pitched the original idea for this particular episode to the writers. At that point it was much more complex in plotting. As time went by, several of the ideas he'd come up with were hived off and used in other episodes - giving him due screen credit. So this episode was basically shorn of a lot of its elements and by the time it got to the script stage it was down to the basics.

MS's script was then worked on by various staff writers, so although MS is the only one credited on screen, it was a joint/group effort this one it seems.

That, of course, is a fairly standard practice in TV writing and not at all unusual and from what I gather MS certainly had no complaints about the process.

But it does seem that the episode that we saw on screen was a bit of a dog's dinner by the time it reached the screen and that MS isn't to blame for a lot of that. Which is a real shame when it's his first attempt and only his name is on the screen credited as being responsible for it in its entirety.

I'd actually like to see him get another chance now - let us see what he could come up with under the best of circumstances rather than the worst. He certainly seems to have good ideas. Whether he can translate those into a good script is something this episode doesn't seem to have allowed him to establish.

Albion

Posted by: medea Feb 19th 2004, 9:57 AM

How little are we actually going to see RDA on the later episodes and the next season? 5, 10 minutes screen time?

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 19th 2004, 12:46 PM

QUOTE (Mike @ Feb 18 2004, 01:23 AM)

Daniel trying to get through to Anna is vintage Daniel. Just like the time he tried to get through to Reese and the narcesis (sp) child. Alot of references to past episodes to remind us of who they are and what they do best.

That's what I was thinking too, as well as the aforementioned X-Files, Silence of the Lambs stuff. It was a good script, production-wise, for AT to get her directing debut on since there was very little tech/action, but the lighting (or lack thereof) must've been quite a challenge.

The story itself was a very basic, a by-the-numbers-type of script. Once you get past the intros it was:

1. Teal'c and Lee (nice to see him, btw) at the bomb.
2. Daniel and Anna
3. Carter, evil scientist, and Barrett.

I had problems with the scientist with being so obviously repulsive, and the only conclusion I can make why this choice was made was to show there were two versions of evil in this ep...the scientist and the goa'uld personality inside Anna. One is obvious, the other is hidden, both just as bad. I think it would've been more interesting if this guy had been brilliant and likable, yet still twisted in his logic about his motivations because then there would've been the opportunity by Carter and Barrett to be influenced by what he says. Let's face it, its harder to dismiss someone's darker motivations if that person doesn't look so dark.

The other problem I had was with the interaction between Daniel and Anna. It was too easy to just leave them cut off from each other with the cell walls seperating them. By doing so, there was no personal jeapardy for Daniel at stake. No tension.

If, on the other hand, Anna had wanted him inside the cell to talk to her as a measure of his trust, then the stakes would've been considerably higher because we had already seen what would happen if the other personality came out, and Daniel literally would've had his own life in his hands, trusting only his wits and compassion that he could save her and figure out how to get the info to disarm the bomb.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 19th 2004, 2:36 PM

Sorry, but I didn't like this episode much at all.
Yeah, Daniel was great and so was Sam, but.....

Where the <expletive deleted> is the Stargate?!?!?!? I mean for <expletive deleted>, the show is NAMED after the <expletive deleted> thing! And it's been getting less and less attention in Season 7 and quite frankly it's <expletive deleted> annoying me.
Let's have the team actually use what the show is named after instead of turning this into an <expletive deleted> EARTH BASED show. I mean <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted>, should we just rename it to "The TAURI - Adventures and Exploits of a civilian, scientist, and warrior in the military!"?
The next ep is soooo going to be a <expletive deleted> bomb, because it won't use the Stargate for SURE, and its a <expletive deleted> clip ep. I mean come on......
In this episode, I don't think the word Stargate was even uttered.....Sigh.....

Also, my opinion on RDA still stands: If Stargate is so ruining his life (despite him getting more leeway than anyone else) to the point where he can't even function, then he should just leave. I'm sorry, but if he continues to whine and whine and whine, then he should just say goodbye and go away because he really is bringing the quality of the series down.
Big thumbs down to RDA!

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 19th 2004, 4:33 PM

QUOTE (SlavsyaRossiya @ Feb 19 2004, 02:36 PM)

Also, my opinion on RDA still stands: If Stargate is so ruining his life (despite him getting more leeway than anyone else) to the point where he can't even function, then he should just leave. I'm sorry, but if he continues to whine and whine and whine, then he should just say goodbye and go away because he really is bringing the quality of the series down.
Big thumbs down to RDA!

He goes away, so does the show...just so ya know.

Also, I think that the weaker episodes have bigger problems than not showing the gate. If memory serves, the gate hasn't been used in a number of eps which were still fairly solid efforts. Frozen is one that comes to mind....

....wait a sec, that one was like the X-Files too, wasn't it? That episode where Mulder and Scully were stuck with those researchers...oh yeah, it was called Ice.

Ice, Frozen...hmm...my humble brain sees a slight correlation situation.

I honestly don't mind if the gate isn't used as long as its a good story. Let's face it, there are episodes where the gate is used plenty and the episode still s*cks.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 19th 2004, 4:47 PM

[Q] He goes away, so does the show...just so ya know.[/Q]

But he's already gone in almost every way that counts.
He's not in most episodes for long, and when he's there it isn't jack whos there.

And yeah, I've noticed Stargate is trying to be an X-Files.....I'd prefer it to be Stargate.

Posted by: ted_simple Feb 19th 2004, 6:15 PM

QUOTE

The genocide of several millions and the murders of millions of others tend to leave a lasting "black mark" on a country's reputation. I just can't seem to casually dismiss these facts when Germany comes to mind, blame it on my "moral American upbringing."

Thanks a lot for your viewpoint, I appreciate that. We discussed a novel at university today, recognized totalitarian thinking/behaviour in one of the characters and compared it to Islamistic fundamentalism as well as to people who place their career before everything else. I realized that I was probably the only one who instantly thought of the Nazis, or better said of the idea they stand for.

I think that's just the point. The sg-1 writers have to "borrow" ideas for their show, and that's only natural, letting Kevlar be a Nazi son has a certain point.

I guess I got a little angry while watching the show:
"We think it came from the Germans." My country is mentioned for the first time! Hooray!
"Kevlar is the son of a Nazi war criminal." And it's explained for everyone who doesn't know it ;-(
"Now that makes sense." Yes of course, Germany -> Nazi. That makes sense!
Just wanted to give you my thoughts, I know I had a special (and not neccessarily fair) point of view on this dialogue.

But I still think it's literature. I'm not trying to make an excuse for the atrocities the Nazis did at all, don't understand me wrong, but I do think it's part of the past and the main connection to the present is that those events should be remembered. We can be glad they are over. Totalitarism has other faces today.
And I fear that many viewers will see this episode and think it's "plausible"/near to reality. Just because it's a vivid idea doesn't mean it's actually probable that such a person as Kevlar must be the son of a war criminal.

You want to talk about facts, you ask me what I know about the descendants of those people... it seems you want to ask me: Couldn't such a person exist!? You know, that's the wrong question. Yes, he could exist! It's always the same with those yes/no-questions. But shouldn't we look at modern societies and ask ourselves what significant forces there are really today? What kind of people could possible really act immoral nowadays?

Posted by: anastasia_beaverhausen Feb 19th 2004, 6:50 PM

I've only watched this episode once so far so I can't comment much on it because I can't remember the half of what happened in it, but anyway, main points -

I like Agent Berrett. No idea why, I never used to but just something about him in this episode changed my opinion of him. Loved the bit where he asked Sam to diner and she told him she was seeing someone, "Really? You?" LOL

Didn't like the whole bomb plot. Again, I have no idea why, it just didn't click with me.

It's good to see Daniel do what he does best, talking, being the humanitarium type thing etc etc. I liked the thing between him and Anna. Sure, it was predictable that she would end up dying and all, but I still liked it.

I had a nitpick to do with something in this episode but I've gone and forgotten it I'll post it later if I remember it after rewatching.

Overall, I though it was so-so. Nothing too exciting or interesting, but still a rather good episode in my mind. 6/10

Posted by: shadowrose40 Feb 19th 2004, 7:09 PM

I think this episode was depressing. Two in a row where we kill someone off

The evil scientist was sort of cliche, but I suppose he had to be a whacked idiot.

I don't know why they are having less and less of Tealc. It seems like lately all he says is "Indeed"

It was a little far-fetched that a girl could overpower two guards and Daniel to escape. Also very unrealistic that she could have killed everyone in the compound. I mean, come on! 32 people? And no one heard shots and came running?

It was interesting to have Barrett ask Sam out. But I didn't think his surprise that she'd be dating was realistic. I mean, get real- she's a pretty woman and of course she'd have a life outside of the SGC.

I had thought that perhaps from the title of the show that they might have found a way to bring back Janet but I guess she's just an angel now.

All in all, I really wasn't too impressed with the outcome of the episode. I'd give it a 5/10.

But then, I might be the minority. I didn't like Heroes either.

Posted by: shadowrose40 Feb 19th 2004, 7:20 PM

QUOTE (Kree! @ Feb 18 2004, 08:12 AM)

I thought this episode was poor, granted it has been better than some of the eps but not as good as it used to be.

Nice to see Dr lee again... but i think next weeks episode will kill Stargate Sg1 off now that it is going to be in a different 'universe' as the new President comes in.

R.I.P Stargate

Different Universe? Ok, I'm confused.

Posted by: shadowrose40 Feb 19th 2004, 7:24 PM

QUOTE (Albion @ Feb 18 2004, 11:42 AM)

This isn't the first episode that Michael Shanks wrote. The other one is in season 6, I think. I'd have to go through 150 CD's to make sure, LOL.

I wonder if Amanda Tapping and Richard Dean Anderson will ever write episodes? I know that Christopher Judge has done a couple.

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 19th 2004, 7:26 PM

QUOTE (SlavsyaRossiya @ Feb 19 2004, 08:36 PM)

Now if you could just direct to the a URL link where the interview where he stated that Stargate is ruining his life, or where he whined about having to be in it is then I'd happily agree with your point of view.
However I seriously doubt he's said any such thing and certainly not in the context in which you seem to have implied it here. He has, sensibly, decided that there are more important things in life (and, let's face it at fifty four it's not like he's got decades and decades left) that he needs to do while he's still young and healthy enough to do so. Things like spend time with his child. Personally, if I ever am fortunate enough to get the chance, I reckon I'd move heaven and earth and give up just about anything to be able to just be there for my kid too.
I reckon that if he really really didn't want to do it at all he'd just say so and stop and there wouldn't be much anyone could do about it. As Mithwriter said he goes and so does the show. I think I'll still be able to breath and beat blood round my body if that happened.

I probably come across as a bit of a RDAist there. I'm not (except for the him being incredibly hot thing) I thought the same thing when MS left for a year. I just happen to think that life is incredibly short and full of much unhappiness so it's important to grasp what is going to make you happy while you can and screw what a whole bunch of probably slightly whacko strangers might say or think. I'm also a big fan if the "if you don't like the way it's developing then don't watch it" philosophy.

As for that whole Nazi/German thing. Hitler wasn't even German, he was just incredibly charismatic and led a fairly fed up and depressed nation to a temporary feeling of power and prosperity.
I must confess to finding it somewhat irritating that the old Nazi stereotype appears to be applied to Germans in pop TV culture. I generally have an issue with American TV and it's habit of stereotyping just about anyone really. Brits are always seen as upper crust toffs wearing bowler hats or the traditional Bow Bells cockney, the Irish are always drunken jolly little leprechauns, Italians are always connected to the mob... I don't think the German thing is any different, it's just easier for people to associate and digest a character if you apply some basic racial characteristics to it. I don't think American TV is the only ones guitly of this either, I think UK tv and probably all forms of media tend to do put people in little boxes with cute little labels on them. No matter how wrong it is I think it' s just done to help us associate the character with the personality we should expect him to have.
My main issue in this case is that I'm dissapointed that an intelligent Sci Fi series like Stargate would conform to such a stereotype. I would have expected better given the racial issues that having a bloody alien in the team might bring about. PLus, as has bee said, it would have made for a much more interesting tale had the scientist been basically good but passionate and truely beliveing he was doing what he did for the good of the planet.

Posted by: shadowrose40 Feb 19th 2004, 7:26 PM

QUOTE (Reshef @ Feb 18 2004, 02:50 PM)

.....I am suprised that it is not available for download yet......can't wait to see it.

It is available. I got it at suprnova.org yesterday.

Posted by: beetlejuice Feb 19th 2004, 8:30 PM

QUOTE (Aesir @ Feb 17 2004, 04:32 PM)

A few nitpicks... How was Anna able to overpower all those people? She also overpowered Daniel and the guards. Okay, she has the Goa'uld genetic memory but she shouldn't be any stronger. . .I see no reason why they would give her enhanced strength.

I will refer you back to the episode "First Ones", where the first SG team is infected by Goa'uld . Teal'c bound up everyone, to see who would break free. Anyone who broke free would be able to because of the Goa'uld.

Therefore, Humans infected by Goa'uld have super-human strength.

Posted by: Doomgoggles Feb 19th 2004, 9:26 PM

YES YES YES!!!! They used the correct sound for the MP5!!! *jumps for joy*

Anyways: I too was very impressed with the directing, or....more specifically the camera-work. Episode had that X-files feel, which is cool, but not really what I wanted out of this one. Good acting though. I can't believe I didn't even notice that RDA wasn't in it until I read this thread! Oh well: only 3 eps left...

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 19th 2004, 10:49 PM

Uh oh.....

QUOTE

Cheap shot. I think it's kind of obvious I was embelleshing there for emotion, considering the paragraph that was immediately before it

QUOTE

I reckon that if he really really didn't want to do it at all he'd just say so and stop and there wouldn't be much anyone could do about it.

And I'm saying he should. He's really not there too much at all, and seriously at the beginning of this ep, when I heard the excuse....It really did surprise me. I expect to hear a ton of excuses....
"Jack was shot and is recovering."
"He decided to take some leave."
"The Tok'ra wanted him."
Etc etc, and it just annoys me.

QUOTE

He has, sensibly, decided that there are more important things in life

True, however if he wasn't prepared to give it his all then he just shouldn't have signed on. He should have just left, because again he is dragging it down.
When he's onscreen too, its just like he's not putting anything into it at all. In fact, I can probably draw a small ASCII thing for his average facial expression lately.

. .

<

-----------------
RDA Happy
RDA Sad
RDA Mad
RDA Aroused
Etc,.

I mean, he's just been so boring lately and his screentime has been pathetic. It just annoys me...I hate it when people go into something

QUOTE

I'm also a big fan if the "if you don't like the way it's developing then don't watch it" philosophy.

Well, I may just do that if the series continues to try to be X-Files.
I'm already not even going to bother getting the next ep....
Sorry, but this ep just %@*^@$ me off. I mean Stargate is not only drifting away from the Stargate, but is running away at full speed.
"General....Can we go through the Stargate?"
"......Shol'va!"

QUOTE

I can't believe I didn't even notice that RDA wasn't in it until I read this thread!

That's how I am. I don't notice RDA until they invent some excuse for him to be gone.
Just let him fade away.

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 19th 2004, 10:55 PM

QUOTE (Majikthize @ Feb 19 2004, 07:26 PM)

QUOTE

As for that whole Nazi/German thing. Hitler wasn't even German, he was just incredibly charismatic and led a fairly fed up and depressed nation to a temporary feeling of power and prosperity

Actually he was Austrian.

QUOTE

I generally have an issue with American TV and it's habit of stereotyping just about anyone really. Brits are always seen as upper crust toffs wearing bowler hats or the traditional Bow Bells cockney, the Irish are always drunken jolly little leprechauns, Italians are always connected to the mob... I don't think the German thing is any different, it's just easier for people to associate and digest a character if you apply some basic racial characteristics to it.

I'm trying to remember ever seeing a film or tv show produced in the US that had a Brit wearing a bowler hat, and I can't think of any. The accents are something else entirely. I can pick out a couple of them, as well as the difference between a Scottish, Irish, and English accent, but to most people they all sound the same.

According to US movies and tv, the Irish aren't jolly leprechauns....drunks, thieves and low-lifes perhaps....which the English and Scots are catching up to here, I think, thanks to some recent movies.

As far as the Italians or (Italian-Americans) go. Well...um

...at least a handfull of the families are in the NY/NJ are the Mafia. Its hardly a secret, to tell you the truth. Now if you want to say that its bad being used as a sweeping generalization, fine, but most stereotypes have a basis of truth in them, it just depends on how much that stereotype makes up the character. There is a show here called The Sopranos about an Italian-American family here in New Jersey thats in the mafia. Every year when the show airs its season the two camps draw sides....the Italian-Americans who think it unfairly stereotypes them all, and the guy who created the show (also Italian-American) and his supporters who say that it also shows postive apsects of a typical family.

Back to Stargate...what's the difference between making a German we never see related to a Nazi war criminal and the stereotyping of the Russian military every time they set foot in the SGC? It's the same thing.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 20th 2004, 6:06 AM

This episode didn't do much for me kids.
It was interesting- I don't know whether it had been a long day at work when I got home just in time to watch it on Skyone- but I was fallin asleep half way through.

I think compared to the last 2 episodes- it was not even close...by a LONG shot!
I'm sorry MS- it was an "interesting" episode- (I've already used that word before haven't I? I can't think of any other words to describe it! )- but I think there is definitely room for improvement... "Sorry," *she whispers nervously*

Oooh! It was great to see Agent Bartlett back- I think he's a good character. And I liked Teal'c's ever-vital role in defusing the bomb with Lee. The girl was alright as well- but I lost interest by the end of the show... Infact... I've already forgotten what happened to her at the end! On no! (Lack of concentration or what.)

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 20th 2004, 6:15 AM

QUOTE

Cheap shot. I think it's kind of obvious I was embelleshing there for emotion, considering the paragraph that was immediately before it

To me maybe but not obvious to everyone who reads stuff on the net and believes it. I get a bit defensive when people start quoting other out of context and twisting their words to suit their own agenda. I certainly wouldn't want someone to (e.g.) say I was racist just because I don't want to live in Southall (ko, any Londoners here will probably understand that). There's a difference between being ready to wind things down and verbally expressing how arsed off with something you are.

QUOTE

if he wasn't prepared to give it his all then he just shouldn't have signed on. He should have just left, because again he is dragging it down.

To re-quote Mithwriter; When he calls it quits the series ends. Maybe it should already have in your opinion but I and others are enjoying S7 enough to not mind his reduced presence. Ok I do mind, I wish he was there more, but I can't blame him for what he's doing.
By the way...when did we ever see him aroused? I must have missed that ep.

QUOTE

I can, albiet only in some oldies. Probably our fault though for inflicting Monty Python on you...you don't mind do you?

. If you think of the bowler hat thing as a metaphorical sign of the upper class toff then you've got Wesley and Giles in Buffy, the British amabssador in Disclosure, the Well Manicured Man in X Files (the whole scene in the movie with him having a Butler and all) all upper class toff types. The only realistic English accent I've seen recently has been James Masters as Spike. I'm not saying they should try and regionalise accents more but that they should at least pick an accent that less than 1% of the population actually have so that when I visit your fair shores next i don't get accused of being Australian again!

But this is hidiously off topic so I'll get back on. I think we agree kind of on the stereotype thing. It's a sort of necessary evil to allow us to recognise these characters in the very short space of time we have in an episode. Getting back to the Russians on SG1 thing, the few times it has focussed on the individual characters (i.e. Watergate and Metamorphosis) then we've seen a much less sterotypical view and a more rounded characterisation of them.

Posted by: Skysong Feb 20th 2004, 8:45 AM

QUOTE (mithwriter @ Feb 19 2004, 10:55 PM)

According to US movies and tv, the Irish aren't jolly leprechauns....drunks, thieves and low-lifes perhaps

No, no, no,.... everyone knows the Irish are all terrorists (but very *nice* terrorists

). Anyone who saw the pilot of Jake 2.0 will know what I'm talking about.

This ep was ok, Daniel was just Mulder without the sulking, and the bomb defusion was boring, but it wasn't the worst. RDA's absence is kinda sloppy, but neccessary, I guess.

Posted by: jme02067 Feb 20th 2004, 10:57 AM

I am really pissed that htere was no jack in this episode....

he hsa been sitting out most of the last episdeos where his humor could be useful and his presence is neccesary...

bring him back! its almost as if he's been scrubbed...

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 20th 2004, 12:36 PM

QUOTE (jme02067 @ Feb 20 2004, 10:57 AM)

I am really pissed that there was no Jack in this episode....

He has been sitting out most of the last episodes where his humor could be useful and his presence is neccesary...

bring him back! its almost as if he's been scrubbed...

Actually, they had a valid reason for him not being in this one, that being that he's recovering and taking some time off from what happened in Heroes. There is a line in that ep that validates this explanation.

Also, the way this ep was constructed there really wasn't room for O'Neill in this one, which I'm sure was by design. What could he have done in this ep to further the story? All the plot points were covered by other characters...heck, I think they could've even sat Teal'c out for this one, to tell you the truth.

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 20th 2004, 2:44 PM

i didnt really see the point of this episode

what did we gain from it????

i thought it was an alrite ep but not the best

it was well written by MS and good directin by AT tho

i hope there's goin to be more actually goin throught the stargate on missions nxt season,

and one more thing,,,, MORE RDA PLEASE!!!!!!!

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 20th 2004, 5:50 PM

I 2nd to that, "three fries shortofa happymeal" (^above^), the episode was kinda boring and Daniel Jackson p*ssed me off more than ever before as I mentioned earlier. That fire was his fault.

Did anyone see the Carter kiss Daniel bit?

Posted by: honeybl Feb 20th 2004, 6:37 PM

QUOTE (Arcady @ Feb 18 2004, 04:54 AM)

Hmmm.. I took it to mean that an area roughly the size and population of Orange County would be destroyed if the bomb went off.. both will fit quite nicely inside LA county very easily. Besides, for those of us who live in the area, OC wouldn't be missed that much

And yes, it did feel very X-file-ish. I was waiting for Scully and Mulder to appear... or at least the smoking man. Altho.. I think Mitch Pileggi would be a cool addition to the Stargate SG-1 cast. (Yo! Brad... hint hint

) Not a bad ep.. just not the greatest either. I'll give it a 5.5/10... just 'cuz I'm feeling generous today

Posted by: Xantara Feb 20th 2004, 10:38 PM

QUOTE (Majikthize @ Feb 17 2004, 06:43 PM)

I too notice the similarities the episode had with Silence of the Lambs. Right away when I saw the charcoal drawings on the inside of Anna's glass cell I screamed that they were ripping off Hannibal's cell. Then, the alien-babies in the jars looked exactly like the ones often shown in X-files! The episode was like one long deja vu.

Overall, I thought the episode was okay. It had some funny lines, but was lacking in other parts (largely in RDA's absence).

I can't say much of the directing, as I was doing my German homework as I watched, so I didn't get a sense for the technical aspects of the episode.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 21st 2004, 1:26 AM

QUOTE

When he calls it quits the series ends.

But again: He's already called it quits in every way that matters: He's not there and when he is there he doesn't seem to care about his performance.
All that's left to do is file papers and become a guest star.

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 21st 2004, 2:10 AM

QUOTE (SlavsyaRossiya @ Feb 21 2004, 01:26 AM)

But again: He's already called it quits in every way that matters: He's not there and when he is there he doesn't seem to care about his performance.

All that's left to do is file papers and become a guest star.

I don't think its a matter of him not caring...I think its more that the character might not be pushed and challanged as he was in the past, and that would be the writers' doing. If the character isn't pushed into something, then the actor isn't going to react because there's no basis for it. Watch intense stuff like Abyss or Full Circle or Grace for example, you can see him rise to that next level. I also thought he gave a solid performance in Heroes.

As far being a guest star....not likely. I would imagine the pay difference from "executive producer" to "guest star" would be roughly the equivalant of going from CEO to a temporary worker...or..er...something in that vicinity.

Honestly, would you?

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 21st 2004, 3:07 PM

what happened to the sam daniel kiss i saw pictures of????

Posted by: Mike Feb 21st 2004, 3:09 PM

QUOTE (three fries shortofa happymeal @ Feb 21 2004, 03:07 PM)

what happened to the sam daniel kiss i saw pictures of????

You've been teased, that's all it was. A tease.

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 21st 2004, 3:17 PM

i thought maybe he'd died again lol

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 21st 2004, 3:28 PM

If I am allowed to witness that, like Daniel getting shot between the eyes

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 21st 2004, 3:36 PM

QUOTE (mithwriter @ Feb 21 2004, 02:10 AM)

QUOTE (SlavsyaRossiya @ Feb 21 2004, 01:26 AM)

But again: He's already called it quits in every way that matters: He's not there and when he is there he doesn't seem to care about his performance.

All that's left to do is file papers and become a guest star.

You do have a point.
But I'm just so frustrated! I mean, I'm watching the series over again and I see him doing great....but now I hardly even see him!
I want RDA back, but if he doesn't want to give it his all then he really should just go away.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 21st 2004, 7:14 PM

I third that comment. More RDA is a "good thang"... I believe he would have been important in this ep... Maybe have done a BETTER job getting info out of the evil scientist than Carter and the agent... He is after all as tough as they get.

I wonder if JackO'Neill took the time off he had to spend with Cassie in Minnesota or something? Be a sort of "Uncle Jack" to her and all? That would be a helpful thing to do methinks.

About the whole RDA debate I really think that once "The Lost city" is shown to be hopefully JackO'Neill dominated- I will completely forget the fact that he has been missing through most of this 7th season... I have a suspicious feeling that I'm going to love RDA/O'Neill by the end of this season- if what I think is gonna happen, is gonna happen.

Posted by: Jedidude Feb 21st 2004, 8:01 PM

Daniel and Carter kiss??????

.... sweet

Posted by: weirdling Feb 21st 2004, 9:34 PM

QUOTE

Totalitarism has other faces today... But shouldn't we look at modern societies and ask ourselves what significant forces there are really today? What kind of people could possible really act immoral nowadays?

Totalitarian societies do not have a monopoly on unscrupulous people. United States is not a totalitarian state, as far as I know, and yet the themes of this episode concerning unethical scientists and secret government organizations/experimentations appear plausible within its context. That's all that is necessary to make a fictional story, you know, consideration of the plausible.

QUOTE

And I fear that many viewers will see this episode and think it's "plausible"/near to reality.

When Daniel impersonated a German scientist to meet with Catherine in "1969," I didn't jump to the conclusion that he was portraying a Nazi, and I'm sure that other reasonable people didn't do so as well. People who expect to get an accurate representation of today's reality by watching science fiction (or other fiction) shows are either seriously misguided or mentally deficient; they have my sympathy either way.

QUOTE

I'm not trying to make an excuse for the atrocities the Nazis did at all, don't understand me wrong, but I do think it's part of the past and the main connection to the present is that those events should be remembered. We can be glad they are over.

I believe that showing and mentioning the Nazi topic promotes remembrance by a greater number of people for a longer time. The neo Nazi movement is on the rise in all of Europe and in Germany, in particular. My relatives from Germany said that due to anit-semitic attacks people were warned by the police not to wear clothes or jewerly that might identify them as jewish, and that security was increased around the synagogues. So no matter how convenient it might be for the "past" to stay in the past, it always seems to come back and bite one in the ass.

The next part of my post applies to the following remark made by Majikthize:

QUOTE

Hitler wasn't even German, he was just incredibly charismatic and led a fairly fed up and depressed nation to a temporary feeling of power and prosperity.

I don't see how it matters that Hitler wasn't German. He was given power by the German people and enjoyed their utter devotion and support throughout his reign. Did Hitler single-handedly fight on two fronts, burn, gas and torture millions of people? No, it was the German army helped by the rest of the German populace that actually did it.

As for leading a depressed people to a feeling of power... There are different ways to achieve a feeling of empowerment. Hitler and the German people could have chosen to feel empowered through great scientific discoveries, greater spiritual enlightment and etc. They, however, chose to feel empowered throught the misery, death and suffering of countless millions of people. A mild example of this would be the following: a man feels depressed because his career isn't going well and asks a co-worker for advice on how to lift his mood. His friend tells him to go home and beat the crap out of his wife, which he does, and begins to feel powerful and confident again.

I sincerely hope, Majikthize, that your opinion of Hitler and Nazi Germany isn't shared by the majority of UK's population. Otherwise, with the "greatest ally" like this, who needs enemies?

Posted by: chris_hotwire Feb 22nd 2004, 12:18 AM

QUOTE (ted_simple @ Feb 18 2004, 09:34 AM)

Wow the first time Germany is mentioned in the series, and it's about a war criminal's son...

It's the 2nd time the Nazi's get a mention. The first mention was that the russions got their dhd in 'watergate' from the germans in ww2... germans having gotten in... um somebody help on this...

I find it interesting. Somebody in germany had a dhd, and somebody else had all these artifacts. I mean they have to have been able to put 2 and 2 together... the russans pulled it off with a dhd and some babylonian ruins in southern iraq

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 22nd 2004, 12:20 PM

QUOTE (weirdling @ Feb 22 2004, 03:34 AM)

I sincerely hope, Majikthize, that your opinion of Hitler and Nazi Germany isn't shared by the majority of UK's population. Otherwise, with the "greatest ally" like this, who needs enemies?

Excuse me? I sincerely hope that you're not presuming to have the slightest clue what my opinion of Nazis and or Germans actually is from my one single sentence on the matter.

My point was that if, after sixty years, you want to still hold the crimes of the Nazi's against the German people then you ought to consider the entire history of the situation before passing judgment against a nation.
Hitler led them to a brief moment of glory and prosperity and for the average German this really was all that mattered. They had as much idea about what was happening in the concentration camps as the rest of the world.
It doesn't make the senseless slaughter of six million people right and it doesn't mean we should ever forget that this must never happen again but it doesn't mean we should tar everyone with the same brush.

As for the ally comment? Well Tony Blair may well have his tongue well and truely lodged so far up George Bush's arse that's he's cleaning the inside of his teeth, but I don't. So far I've liked or loved every American I've ever met though. I'd hesitate to pass any sort of judgement on the ones I haven't.

Posted by: Jon The UK SG-1 Fan Feb 22nd 2004, 12:49 PM

This ep was very different
I actually found it really boring in the begining but then began to like it more and more and to see Dr Lee again was good. I'm surprised Shanks had the intelligence to write something this complex
PS: I thought it was cool the Germans were mentioned.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 22nd 2004, 1:22 PM

QUOTE (weirdling @ Feb 21 2004, 09:34 PM)

Did Hitler single-handedly fight on two fronts, burn, gas and torture millions of people?? No, it was the German army helped by the rest of the German populace that actually did it.

As for leading a depressed people to a feeling of power... There are different ways to achieve a feeling of empowerment.? Hitler and the German people could have chosen to feel empowered through great scientific discoveries, greater spiritual enlightment and etc.?

I sincerely hope, Majikthize, that your opinion of Hitler and Nazi Germany isn't shared by the majority of UK's population.? Otherwise, with the "greatest ally" like this, who needs enemies?

Well- at least someone here hasn't read up on their history to know that many unwilling Germans were compelled to follow Hitler and his dominatory laws in Germany- otherwise they'd be persecuted as well.

I think what Majikthize was trying to get at was that Germany was on the brink of economic collapse after the Great Depression of 1929. Hitler came along and improved Germany's economic outlook and reduced the enormous employment figures to far lower than the UK's. She wasn't trying to say that what Hitler did was right, no one in their right mind would say that his policies led to true prosperity for Europe or the German people. Leave them out of it by the way. You can't generalise on these matters by saying that it was the German populace's fault.
But then again you must have been suffering from a case of "extreme narrow-mindedness" to not realise that she isn't actually a fan of Adolf Hitler.

Seriously though- what country is empowered by great scientific discoveries or "spiritual enlightenment"? Spiritual enlightenment- what have you been smoking?

Here's the way the world works my friend. If you have a lot of money- you can buy the best brains in the world. What? You seriously think that NASA has good ole pure bred brains working for it? You must be joking. I know of even Iranian scientists who have been recruited by your country to work for NASA- at a good price I might add too. (And of course your president has slandered Iran for being part of the "axis of evil"- tsk tsk.)
Its all bullshit politics my friend. And it would be good if you just stayed out of it and focused on the topic at hand- that little show called "Stargate SG1".

ps: - Don't diss the frankly unfortunate fact that we're your "greatest ally" either. We don't need some juvenille comment from you starting a whole debate between the American and British fans ok? This is NOT the place to do it.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 22nd 2004, 4:31 PM

Many posts in this thread are a classic example of a knee-jerk reaction.
Mention Hitler, and that happens to most of the population.

Posted by: Amaunet Feb 22nd 2004, 8:52 PM

QUOTE (jaffagod @ Feb 18 2004, 08:15 AM)

We've already had almost this exact plot before...on many occasions. The same basic plot was in evidence in 605 - Nightwalkers, in 703 - Fragile Balance and many others. Come on Michael (Shanks), this is wearing a bit thin now, we need new and different episodes. Leave it to Chris and the wriers to write episodes.( By plot I mean cloning and its repercussions.)

Michael Shanks didn't originally pitch an NID episode.

His original idea had more to do with mythology and tying things back to the Egyptian mythology storyline, with the Sekmet stuff and the idea that this cache of artifacts was originally found by Napoleon's army in the early 19th century underneath the Sphinx. He talked about the process of writing for Stargate on Sci Fi Overdrive last month sometime. From the sounds of it, basically by the time he got out of the "room" where the writers go over the ideas, it had become an NID episode.

He'd also pitched an idea about revisiting what had happened with Nick(Daniel's grandfather) and the giant aliens involving alien technology and the Fountain of Youth legend, which was cut down to a bare mention in Evolution Part 1.

I thought it was a good episode as NID episodes go. I liked the continuity with previous events in the series. Thought the characterizations were very good, was glad to see Dr Lee again and that Pete gets a passing mention. But it might have been a bit better had it actually had more to do with what MS wanted to write about.

I thought there were some weaknesses in both the writing and directing, some of the shots felt clever to be clever and some of the edits were too quick, but nothing that ruined the episode in either case.

Posted by: StargateSG-1Addict Feb 22nd 2004, 9:23 PM

For tjose who have seen this episode. Is there or is there not a kiss between Daniel and Carter?

Posted by: Jedidude Feb 22nd 2004, 9:25 PM

Yes. Didn't you see the picture?

Posted by: Arcady Feb 23rd 2004, 4:31 AM

QUOTE (Cirus @ Feb 19 2004, 07:28 AM)

I have lived in both counties. Disneyland is not "next to" a county. It is inside Orange County. Los Angeles County is a different place. It's nice, if you like traffic, smog, and crime.

QUOTE (honeybl @ Feb 20 2004, 06:37 PM)

QUOTE (Arcady @ Feb 18 2004, 04:54 AM)

The episode starts off saying "Los Angeles" and later the guy says "how many people are in Orange County?"

Excuse me, but Los Angeles is not in Orange County.

So when I wonder about a bomb going off, I figure out the size of a county I am not in?

"Hey Steve, we are in New York, and this bomb may go off. How many people live on Maui?"

Makes no sense to me.

Posted by: DayDreamingPixie Feb 23rd 2004, 9:25 AM

Im gonna post this here too.... whats the ship in the bottom left. Its not the one from grace... it had a romulan front. Hey maybe we are having a trekkie crossover.. lol.

Attached image(s)

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 23rd 2004, 4:43 PM

QUOTE (StargateSG-1Addict @ Feb 23 2004, 03:23 AM)

For those who have seen this episode. Is there or is there not a kiss between Daniel and Carter?

No. Don't take any notice of Jedidude, who is clearly such a rampant Sam/Daniel shipper that s/he is hallicinating badly.
There is a pic of Michael Shanks and Amanda Tapping larking* about on set and, seemingly, kissing but it's not a scene actually from the episode. At least not the aired version.

Now if I were an MS/AT shipper (God forbid) then I might find it interesting.

*At least, as MS and AT are both be-spoused I assume they were just larking about. Hey, it's showbiz. Who knows!

Posted by: youngjediboy Feb 23rd 2004, 5:41 PM

well, i don't really have anything to add that hasn't already been said here... but Anna's really pretty..

Posted by: mike5842 Feb 24th 2004, 4:00 PM

Well each week i've watched the new series i've been a little dissapointd with a few exceptions. This episode was excellent. I was glued to the tv the whole way through and it leads onto the final part in a great way. The writers have done a great job.

I'm a fan again

Mike.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 24th 2004, 4:57 PM

QUOTE (mike5842 @ Feb 24 2004, 04:00 PM)

Well each week i've watched the new series i've been a little dissapointd with a few exceptions.? This episode was excellent.? I was glued to the tv the whole way through and it leads onto the final part in a great way.? The writers have done a great job.

I'm a fan again

Mike.

Good for you- sorry - for a second there I thought you'd got Inauguration and Resurrection the wrong way round but then again "leads onto the final part" may have meant the final part of Resurrection- as opposed to Inauguration leading onto the finale of the series in a great way.

Jedidude- lmao! Yeah- they kissed. In your dreams.

Posted by: sidewinder Feb 24th 2004, 7:50 PM

Damn. I was reading the previous posts, and I was getting all giddy because I thought we were going to have a good ol' county-bashing fight on our hands. Then cooler minds prevailed, and I'm left reading posts about Daniel and Carter kissing?
Let's see if I can't stir things up a bit: France sucks, England sucks, US sucks. Um...Canada. Eh, never mind.
I think I'll make my point....ahem....This is an internet site about a sci-fi series based on aliens who use a wormhole and space ships. Perfect place to talk about European history and foriegn policy!
I swear, this must be the most historically mindful bunch of dorks I've ever encountered.
Relax, i consider myself a dork too. And btw...im from the US, so lets not go accusing me of being from one of the non-mentioned countries.
As far as the episode...eh. Nothing special. Here's my idea of a great episode...
Chris writes it, Amanda directs it, and it's nothing but good ol' Jack winging line after line. Oh...Daniel...um, he'll find some artifact from Egypt that makes him happy.
Ah...dreams.

Posted by: weirdling Feb 25th 2004, 10:10 AM

QUOTE

If "many" Germans did not want to fight, the war would have gone quite differently. Were these "many" afraid of the other few? Or, more reasonably, were maybe a few afraid of the many others? I guess you probably came across "an ex-Nazi self-justification" version of history, easily recognizable by the very frequent phraze "they made me do that..."
By the way, my friend, using the word "many" automatically indicates generalization. You might want to remember that the next time you talk about generalizing.

QUOTE

I think what Majikthize was trying to get at was that Germany was on the brink of economic collapse after the Great Depression of 1929. Hitler came along and improved Germany's economic outlook and reduced the enormous employment figures to far lower than the UK's. She wasn't trying to say that what Hitler did was right, no one in their right mind would say that his policies led to true prosperity for Europe or the German people. Leave them out of it by the way. You can't generalise on these matters by saying that it was the German populace's fault.
But then again you must have been suffering from a case of "extreme narrow-mindedness" to not realise that she isn't actually a fan of Adolf Hitler.

I mentioned the suffering and atrocities perpetrated by Hitler to bring to light the other side of the coin/story concerning his "charismatic leadership." Saying that Hitler was "JUST a charismatic leader' is as inadequate and insensitive as referring to "9-11" as "JUST a couple of collapsed buildings." But what can I possibly explain to an "open-minded" person like you?

Ah..., and yes, I agree, let's stick to discussing "stargate" from now on.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 25th 2004, 4:11 PM

.........right......knee jerk reflex working well I see- when it comes to complete BS but anyway, (Bloody hell)- getting back to the episode- I've watched it again and I've decided that it does grow on you- in some strange weird way- but I still think that it's one of the poorest eps this season.

No RDA in the ep does that to a fan I guess- look what happened to 605? I watched it once and never again after that- even though that was a far more exciting ep than this one- mainly coz it was weirder/more XFiles-y.

Posted by: Ares Feb 27th 2004, 10:50 PM

I don't know what's up with all the talk about Hitler or other bs, and frankly I don't care. I'm giving my review now.

Good ep, I'm glad Carter didn't screw up directing this ep. I hope she does another one in the near future(aka season 8). Also, good writing from one MS, I also hope he writes in the next season. No Jack, no Stargate, no problem is what I say for this ep. I liked seeing the return of the nanites(sp?) or whatever they're called, I liked how they sorta used the Goa'uld's technology against them.

I thought it was stupid of Danny to put a candle in there with her; when I saw it in there, I knew things would go south. I thought the bomb technician guy was a jerkoff and there is no way in hell he was the best the SGC had to offer. Other than that, I had very few complaints about the ep., so I'm giving this bad boy 3 stars.

***

Posted by: seymour Feb 28th 2004, 1:30 AM

As I was watching "X-Files Without a Gate", three thoughts came to mind:

1. Did the PTB accept this average script because it looked like a ideal episode to shoot without RDA and simply transfer most of O'Neill's lines to Agent Barret and change the rest of his dialogue to suit?

2. AT way-to-go-girl, for you there will be life after Stargate and we already know CJ can pen a pretty fine script.

3. O'Neill needs to retire, in the good old-days, he'd be back at work a week after been nearly frozen to death, breaking his leg, puncturing a lung, being blown up by a bomb, aging to 100, regressing to a caveman etc etc..sometimes he'd be back at work the same episode. Now he needs time off even for bruising, that's gotta be tough on him. This is man who crawled out of Iraq for 10 days with a broken leg or whatever. He needs a desk-job...now!

Remember, I'm a huge O'Neill/RDA fan but I gotta say, I hope RDA is being paid by the hour. I think AT should have got top billing this season and RDA be billed as "Guest Appearance by.." oh no let's make a "Special Guest Appearance by..." or in "A Very Special Stargate" I'd probably accept the lack of RDA much better if the credits were more honest.

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Feb 28th 2004, 1:52 AM

QUOTE (seymour @ Feb 28 2004, 01:30 AM)

As I was watching "X-Files Without a Gate".....

Ditto, Seymour.

Never liked X-Files. Rarely watched it.

Needless to say I'm not liking X-Filegate much either. I fell asleep tonight watching this episode and I've NEVER fallen asleep watching SG-1 before.

Posted by: IceQueen Feb 28th 2004, 2:43 AM

IMHO this was "Silence of the Lambs" even more than it was "XFiles". I liked the creepy science guy, even if I found the plot a little lacking.

You know what really disturbed me about this episode? Usually after an episode of StarGate, I ponder it for several hours, etc. etc. This time there was absolutely nothing to ponder.

Posted by: Heru'ur Feb 28th 2004, 10:17 AM

I found this episode to be slightly below average. The absence of O'neill, the appearance of nother ancient goa'uld on earth, the same ol' bad NID plot, just was not th greatest idea for a episode. Amanda Tapping did do a great job of directing even if the story line was not the best. And, what did the scientist hope to accomplish by getting the knowledge of a goa'uld that has been out of date for thousands of years? Would the goa'uld have not of improved their technology in the time, making his knowledge useless? Just doesn't make sense.

Posted by: Jedidude Feb 28th 2004, 12:45 PM

so who has seen Resrrection ( I accidently missed it Friday ), and what is the deal with that kiss between Sam and Daniel?

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 28th 2004, 1:24 PM

The pic was a teaser like stated by previous people apparently, were the actors getting a 1-on-1 moment there? I'm starting to hate these rhetorical questions of mine

Posted by: louspiel Feb 28th 2004, 1:36 PM

Considering that Dr. Keffler uniquely combined crimes against Humanity with crimes against the Goa'uld, its quite fortunate that Anna killed him.

... After all, Anubis is looking for a few bad sentients

Posted by: Lit Gal Feb 28th 2004, 2:52 PM

I liked the concept, and I liked the whole "moral" aspect to it. Who every talked about growly Daniel going after the doctor--right on. That was a nice moment. I also really liked the directing. The visuals are about the best thing in the episode. However, this one did not "click" for me. Menace is one of my all time favorite episodes because of the subtle humor and the raw pain from MS. However, here the girl's death is nearly an after thought, and I felt no real connection between them before that. Some episodes leave me wanting more, and this didn't.

Dr. Lee. I love the character, but SG1 needs to not trust that boy

Prodigy -- runs away and leaves another scientist to die
Evolution -- hides while Daniel gets SHOT trying to lure the bad guys away
Resurrection -- damn near blows up LA by typing the wrong things on his computer I never trust my life to him, and Sam should definitely been keeping an eye on him.

Posted by: dorien Feb 28th 2004, 8:10 PM

Wow! The most interesting thing about this episode is how uninteresting it was. There was nothing original to the story. The Silence of the Lambs and Species references have already been mentioned. But let us not overlook that the inspiration for the main plot point...the human/goa'uld hybrid...is taken straight from Alien Resurrection. Heck, the eps title is even a ripoff. Acid for blood might have perked things up a bit here.

And I can't help but think that had this actually been an episode of the X-Files, instead of a pale shadow, it would have been pretty cool. Instead of the lame bomb plot we would have seen Mulder and Scully chase down the paper trail leading from the warehouse to the people financing the research. As I recall from Smoke and Mirrors, the leadership of the rogue NID wanted to channel alien tech into the private sector for personal gain. With them out of the way for nearly a year, clearly someone else was financing the research. The moral ambiguity of what the scientists and their backers were trying to achieve would have been explored instead of having Dr Keffler be a one-note caricature whose sole purpose seemed to be sadism. And except as a means to expose the operation, what was with killing off the rest of scientists/staff? Difference of scientific opinion? Difference of morals/ethics? Money? Too much time was spent posturing when a complex story could have been told.

Since Michael Shanks was given full writing credit, the full blame for a poor story rests squarely on his shoulders. Perhaps he should borrow one of Christopher Judge's writer's hats. Maybe he'd learn the difference between using ideas from other material and making those ideas uniquely his own.

I didn't like or dislike this one. It was just too dull to get a strong reaction either way. But "good job" to Amanda Tapping. What a tough first time directing gig. Nothing happened in the script. What a challenge for her. Just how many ways can you shoot scenes of people standing around talking?

On a music note: In the scene where Agent Barrett asks Sam out, the music was very familiar. I know it was used in another episode. Does anybody else recognize it and where it's from? I'm thinking maybe the dessert scene in Urgo?

EDIT: Just by asking the music question, Urgo suggested itself to me. (Sometimes that darn implant won't shut up. ) So I checked and it is the same piece in both scenes. Mystery solved.

Posted by: seymour Feb 28th 2004, 9:04 PM

QUOTE (dorien @ Feb 28 2004, 08:10 PM)

........ And except as a means to expose the operation, what was with killing off the rest of scientists/staff? Difference of scientific opinion? Difference of morals/ethics? Money? Too much time was spent posturing when a complex story could have been told.

Since Michael Shanks was given full writing credit, the full blame for a poor story rests squarely on his shoulders. Perhaps he should borrow one of Christopher Judge's writer's hats. Maybe he'd learn the difference between using ideas from other material and making those ideas uniquely his own.

Very well stated, I agree with you 100%.

I wondered if MS's script (however heavily edited it was) ended up on the screen because MS had it written into his S7 contract that one of his scripts would be used. Just a thought, since I read somewhere (?) that AT had it written into her contract that she would direct this season.

This wasn't in "homage" to anything but some unconnected threads shown at the same time. Again, all due credit to AT for shining in her first shot at direction (without RDA around).

Dr Lee was the best in this episode for me....wish he had more screen time! But seriously, why are all the scientists (except for Carter) portrayed as such dipsticks? Too much sterotyping of scientists and don't get me started about the evil Nazi's sadistic son (oh unless the actor was directed to play him that way by AT, I hope not since the campy, smoking, evil Nazi routine was a joke).

Posted by: Spence Feb 29th 2004, 4:37 PM

Lately, I haven't been reading any of these discussions till after I've seen the episode, so that I don't read any spoilers. So, this response is very late. I know that Arcady posted a link to the zoo in Colorado Springs. ramuund, here's what I wrote in "Chimera - Nitpicks" about the zoo here (I live in Colorado Springs):

http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=5695&st;=0entry131748

I understood why RDA wasn't in this episode, but I think something I've missed most about his presence this season is the sarcastic humor. I know that Daniel's character has sometimes thrown in a few sarcastic comments. To compensate for less RDA, I think the scripts need to have more humorous lines for the other characters.

Majikthize wrote:

QUOTE

My main issue in this case is that I'm disappointed that an intelligent Sci Fi series like Stargate would conform to such a stereotype.

and

QUOTE

So far I've liked or loved every American I've ever met though. I'd hesitate to pass any sort of judgment on the ones I haven't.

I do wish shows would stereotype less. I have quite a few friends in Western Europe and I try to see each person for themselves instead of belonging to a country. I have a lot of American friends who have not met people from foreign countries, and all they know about them is based on what they read in our newspapers and from the TV. My opinion is that those are still very slanted. I say this because I will sometimes read news online from France or Austria and they will mention facts about issues that are not mentioned in the US newspapers. I often have to remind my friends that not everyone in a country agrees with each other, and not everyone agrees with the views of their Prime Minister, President, King or Queen.

QUOTE

I had to chuckle at the idea of them trying to evacuate all of L.A. County. We are talking about 9 1/2 million people!

So true. And what excuse did they give people to evacuate? Did they tell them there was a bomb threat or "Um, the traffic might actually get bad tonight," (sarcasm) "so start heading home early!"

QUOTE

You know what really disturbed me about this episode? Usually after an episode of StarGate, I ponder it for several hours, etc. etc. This time there was absolutely nothing to ponder.

Well said. LOL. That's how this episode made me feel, too.

Posted by: tcsdoc Feb 29th 2004, 7:33 PM

Sorry, this episode was terrible. Amanda and Michael need to stay in front of the camera and leave the writing/directing to professionals. I give it a 3/10.
To shorten this post, I agree with all the negatives and few of the positives posted before mine. 'Nuff said.

Posted by: Amaunet Feb 29th 2004, 10:19 PM

This episode had alot of "hands" in it, it ended up only being about 50 percent MS's, according to interviews, they cut some stuff, added some stuff. Of course he didn't go in to do an NID story to begin with and I'd imagine first time out it would probably be much easier if you could write on something you actually chose to write about as opposed to something you were told to write about.

AT was supposed to direct another episode to begin with as well, so the producers must have done it to her--I think they were trying to kill two birds with one stone, figuring giving the first timers the same episode to work on, it could only "ruin" one episode. Which was unfair to both of them.

I don't think it's all the writer's fault, the director also has a large degree of influence on how an episode turns out, esp. an enclosed episode like this. They have first edit, so can influence the scenes chosen, the length of the scenes, etc. They have a lot of responsibility for pacing and creating a suspenseful atmosphere, they can influence how actors play scenes, I believe they also play a big part in choosing the guest actors. To put two newcomers together wasn't fair to either one.

Posted by: SG-15 Mar 1st 2004, 4:49 PM

Again. Another dissapointment in the 7th season. It's just not that good anymore without RDA. This is the worst Rouge NID episode ever. And then this week is another episode with Senator Kinsey trying to shut down the program.

It's pretty obvious he won't succeed. I hope The season finale makes up for all the bad episodes.

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Mar 1st 2004, 11:58 PM

QUOTE (Spence @ Feb 29 2004, 04:37 PM)

And what excuse did they give people to evacuate? Did they tell them there was a bomb threat or "Um, the traffic might actually get bad tonight," (sarcasm) "so start heading home early!"

All they would have had to do was set the episode in Atlanta instead of L.A. and announce that there was a 1% chance of snow flurries. Everyone would have run home and the city would have shut down and been cleared out like a ghost town.

(Only you folks who live here in the South will understand this.)

Posted by: Serpent Guard21 Mar 2nd 2004, 5:50 AM

This episode could have been way better

Posted by: seymour Mar 2nd 2004, 3:19 PM

QUOTE (Amaunet @ Feb 29 2004, 10:19 PM)

To put two newcomers together wasn't fair to either one.

The only people this was not fair to was the the Stargate viewer.

AT demanded that she direct and had it in her contract and MS volunteered the script (and for all we know may have had this in his contract).

Tough if it wasn't easy on either of them but by directing an episode AT prevented another working director from being paid to do the job she fell capable to doing. Ditto for MS. Neither should have had their hands held through this and both must accept full responsibility for the outcome and should all other directors and writers.

Posted by: Borg Duck Mar 19th 2004, 2:55 AM

Stop putting them down! I thought this was a good episode at best.

Posted by: Martijn Mar 19th 2004, 3:59 PM

I wonder how someone with a Nazi background could work for a US government agency. I mean, don't they have background screening?

Posted by: seymour Mar 23rd 2004, 1:02 AM

QUOTE (Martijn @ Mar 19 2004, 03:59 PM)

I wonder how someone with a Nazi background could work for a US government agency. I mean, don't they have background screening?

not as surprising as you might think.........
take trip to the library, look up post WW2 dispersal of Nazi scientists particularly these related to physics and nucler weapons research..
Many were "employed" by the new dominant powers post WW2 i.e. the USA and USSR...I kid you not

Posted by: WMCoolmon Mar 23rd 2004, 3:21 AM

Considering he was hired by a rogue element of the NID for illegal cloning experiments, I don't think the NID wanted him to be very ethical.

I'm really disappointed with that part of the episode. It would've been much more interesting if his background served some sort of character conflict (ie do we trust him or not) instead of just to tell the audience, "Nazis are bad, and since this guy is a Nazi's kid, he's also bad."

Posted by: mithwriter Mar 23rd 2004, 11:36 AM

QUOTE (seymour @ Mar 2 2004, 03:19 PM)

Tough if it wasn't easy on either of them but by directing an episode AT prevented another working director from being paid to do the job she fell capable to doing. Ditto for MS.

Excuse me?

What do you mean prevented other writers/directors? The directors who work on Stargate are all regulars, its not like they prevented another 'guest director' from getting a shot at making an ep.

Look at the credits. It's all Martin Wood, Andy Mikita, Peter DeLouise, William Gereghty and Peter Woeste. That's it. Also, AT has said in interviews how people stepped up and helped her out, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. They're all professionals.

As far as the writing goes, look at the all the previous posts, especially the ones about what happened to MS's original idea. It sounds like the writing staff did some re-working of his story, so he can't be all to blame. Maybe he's good with ideas and not good with scripts. The problem is that he's given sole writing credit for the ep, as opposed to "story by", which would be different. When one is listed as 'written by", it is assumed the writer is the author of the script, not that someone else re-wrote the story.

The bottom line is how much of the story was his and how much was re-written by the show's staff.

Posted by: seymour Mar 25th 2004, 4:20 PM

QUOTE

mithwriter,Mar 23 2004, 11:36 AM
Excuse me?

Mithwriter, don't worry you're excused since you seem to have a very bad case of "worshipping false gods." My "tough" comment was in response to an earlier post that suggested that AT and MS (as two newbies) were at an unfair advantage being paired together in the same episode as writer and director. Were you aware that AT had it written into her contract for S7 that she would direct an episode? Obviously that prevented one of the regular directors from directing the same episode. Duh!

QUOTE

As far as the writing goes, look at the all the previous posts, especially the ones about what happened to MS's original idea. It sounds like the writing staff did some re-working of his story, so he can't be all to blame. Maybe he's good with ideas and not good with scripts. The problem is that he's given sole writing credit for the ep, as opposed to "story by", which would be different. When one is listed as 'written by", it is assumed the writer is the author of the script, not that someone else re-wrote the story.

The bottom line is how much of the story was his and how much was re-written by the show's staff.

Mithwriter, unlike you I'm assuming the extra work and changes were required to improve MS's original draft and not made it worse as you seem to be suggesting. MS is fortunate to have retained full writing credit for his contribution (perhaps stipulated in his contract?). Besides, this is really no different from what happens to many other scripts. The real bottom line is when wearing his writer's hat, MS must accept that he will be treated like other writers..you write the script and then it's up for discussion and change. MS got what he wanted, writing credit for a show. Please don't suggest that other professionals messed up his original "masterpiece"! (That would be a conspiracy theory!)

You have made me realize that AT fully acknowledged the help, guidance and efforts of others in her directorial debut (that lady has class!). Perhaps MS should do likewise. Thanks for the clarification.

Posted by: Mac.Fan May 1st 2004, 5:02 AM

It was a intersting episode. RDA wasnt in this one. They couldnt belive what the NID did. Daniel will have plenty to do with the arterfacts that was found at the site and Sam will be busy with the stuff that was found on the computer.

Posted by: seymour May 6th 2004, 3:09 PM

Clip at stargatesgc.com where "Shanks explains his views on story development in Stargate SG-1, describes his irritations with rehashing previous ideas and how a script really engages him as an actor"

http://www.stargatesgc.com/sgc.nsf/FEDA99A0D7FDB75880256CF5005DCC74/89DB212B9C61D43F80256E8B00341CB4?OpenDocument

Click on the link for Breaking New Ground

Interesting to view having seen the results of his own "creativity" in Resurrection.

Posted by: ussshorty Jun 10th 2004, 12:40 PM

Yay Agent Barrett. I think Barrett is great and the scenes with him and Sam are great.

The girl who played Anna was amazing. Im sure she will be very big as from what ive seen she has this unique look and style about her.

But Michael Shanks did a great script job and Amanda Tapping was great as a director.

On the extra's of the dvd with this episode on, it has a behind the scene's look and the cast and crew bough Amanda a cap which has Obey me wrote on the front.
I thought it was pretty cool.

Posted by: CitizenK Jun 17th 2004, 7:58 AM

This is one of the few episodes of season 7 that I actually thought was pretty decent inspite of the fact that it borrowed heavily from both Silence of the Lambs and X-Files. The resemblence was hard to ignore.

While I sorely missed seeing Colonel O'Neill, I think that Carter, Daniel and Teal'c (alone with Agent Barrett) did a terrific job without him. However, I do feel that the script written by Michael Shanks lacked creativity. Really, we have seen this story before. I think the problem is that it needed a better villan. While I like Brad Greenquist as Doctor Keffler, he was still nothing more than your stereotypical neo-fascist mad scientist. That character flaw, I blame on MS's script. Do we really need to see yet another neo-nazi scientist ?

I've read everyone else's comments and the one that stuck out was the one that lamented the fact that America seemed to think of Germans as nothing more than nazis. This isn't true. We don't think that.

The problem is the media. It has run out of villans for the US to fight. As I see it, once the cold war ended We (America) lost our one viable enemy, the Soviet Union. Once they, more or less, became our allies, then they ceased being the evil empire and we really couldn't use them as the bad guy in movies or television anymore. Who does that leave ? To put it bluntly, the nazis are the last real personification of evil. Not the Germans mind you, but the nazis. I make the distinction.

In some ways, Stargate is up against the same problem. By killing off all the truly interesting system lords, its left itself with no worthwhile enemy. And what's the use of being a hero if you don't have an interesting villan ?

This is one of the problems I see with the NID. The show really shouldn't have killed Simmons. When Maybourne went over to the good guys, that left a void in the NID. I think that it was nicely filled by Colonel Simmons. His character could really give O'Neill some grief, much in the same way Maybourne did. But, they killed him off and once that happened, the NID ceased to be interesting too. My own personal opinion is that the NID got castrated in season 7. It's lost its cajones. pardon my language.

Which brings me back to Resurrection. Okay, we have a covert NID lab cloning goa'ulds. That has alot of potential. Points to MS. but, some how without Simmons or even Kinsey running the program, it doesn't seem to have as much oomph as it could. points lost to MS.

still, on the whole, I thought the episode was amoungst the better ones of season 7. AT did a credible job directing. scary, but in seven years, the show could only hire ONE female director ! that's pretty sad.

okay... my two cents

Posted by: Sam's Sister Jul 17th 2004, 8:01 PM

Regarding the kiss photo and the directing:

At a convention I attended in March, AT and MS were asked about the kiss and AT said that they were goofing around on the set and that the promo photographer was just shooting random stills. She indicated that the photo ended up in the promos because the photographer didn't which scenes were part of the show and which were not. Then they were asked if they would demonstrate the kiss, and they obliged, not once, but twice (so everyone could catch it on camera), then they stopped, MS saying "That's enough...we are both married...to different people."

http://linz.wewt.net/grandslam/ATMS4

As for the directing, at the recent Burbank convention, MS was asked how that went -- if there was any tension having AT direct his story. He said that there was none because he simply wrote it and turned it over to AT...he trusted her directing ability. She had asked him if he wanted to go over things with her and he said no, she should just go for it.

Posted by: Jedidude Jul 22nd 2004, 8:31 PM

I thought this was an excellent episode, probably one of my favorites so far. You got to see a different story line that you usually don't see. Usually the other episodes about meating other aliens on different planets, and killing the Gua'uld. But you got to see a Gua'uld hybrid that was actually created to get knowledge from the Gua'uld. Very nice.

Posted by: Asgardian Dec 12th 2005, 5:14 AM

I really did not like this episode. It was to boring. Nothing really happened that really excited me except for the bomb scenes. So far after watching 5 episodes of season 7, my least favorite season by far.

Posted by: Dafmeister Dec 12th 2005, 10:57 AM

QUOTE(Asgardian @ Dec 12th 2005, 10:14 AM)

Which episode have you been watching? Have you seen 'Fallen', 'Homecoming', 'Evolution' parts 1 & 2, 'Heros' parts 1 & 2 and 'The Lost City' parts 1 & 2? They the 8 best episodes in the whole season.

Posted by: Asgardian Dec 12th 2005, 3:11 PM

Well I own this season but becuase I haven't watched the 5th or 6th season, I have only watched episodes that have nothing to do with the main story. I have heard that the best episode of any stargate season is in this one but I'm not sure which one.

Posted by: Dafmeister Dec 12th 2005, 4:12 PM

I suggest you get seasons 5 and 6 as soon as possible. If you havent seen those seasons, you are missing a lot of good episodes.

Posted by: Asgardian Dec 12th 2005, 5:23 PM

I should be getting them this week, if my friend can remembers to grab them

Posted by: invisible painting Dec 12th 2005, 6:50 PM

QUOTE(Asgardian @ Dec 12th 2005, 10:23 PM)

I should be getting them this week, if my friend can remembers to grab them

Yeah generally speaking the individual ones are the worst of the season, that usually happens. And so far i think youve watched the bad ones. I reccomend you just watch seasons 5+6 and then watch 7, there are some good episodes there i recomend you see them. If you were to pick out the individual of individual ones from season 3 or 4 youd find it wouldnt be as good. It just depends what ones you watch, ill agree that this episode isnt the best. There are alot better out there.

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Stargate Information Archive _ SG-1 Season 7 _ 719 - Resurrection

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