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Posted by: Arcady Feb 10th 2004, 4:18 PM

Episode 18 - Heroes (Part Two)
Air Date: (UK) February 10, 2004
Air Date: (US) Feburary 20, 2004

Stargate Command comes under investigation after an off-world rescue mission goes terribly wrong.

Guest Starring: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000284/ as Colonel Dixon, http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0007210/ as Emmett Bregman, http://www.robertpicardo.com/ as Agent Woolsey.

(Part 2 of 2.)

http://www.sg1archive.com/s7credits.shtml#718 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f;=2&t;=1608 | http://www.sg1archive.com/teasers/718.html

Posted by: Raz Feb 10th 2004, 4:19 PM

As of last week I was soooo looking forward to this episode, but now that I have seen it, I wish I hadn?t.
Started off very spectacular, one of the best battle scenes I have seen in a long time. A lot of CG which was incorporated nicely.
Then when Sam came down the corridor crying, I knew that the episode was going to be very sad. Although they avoided the fact Janet died and left u wondering whether it was Colonel O?Neill was just shameful. They can?t do that to u?.it builds up suspense for the wrong reasons.
When the video came on of how Janet died I didn?t think it looked too bad, it looked instantaneous. Nice to know that he wasn?t going to use the video but nicely said by Daniel, ?She gave more, More than I gave back? Very touching.
I thought it was nice how Teal?c was able to finally show his emotions through words instead of facial emotions. Nice speech at the end which Janet deserved of all the lives she had saved.
I liked the fact they called the child ?Janet?.

Episode gets a 9/10 for me.

Looking ahead I am not looking forward to Inauguration in 2 weeks, smart ass Woolsey working for Kinsey.
The added ?shipper? scene within Heroes Part 2 was also incorporated nicely.
I just want to know, where will Cassy go now? Foster home or to Sam?

Can?t believe theres only 4 episodes left?.can?t wait to see The Lost City.


By the way Ronny Cox wasn't in it...

Posted by: Commander-Thor Feb 10th 2004, 4:28 PM

Well, what can I say?

Of all the types of episode we get - we very rarely get an almost purely emotional episode.
True there was a fight scene - but that was very short - but very good mind you.

Personally - I believe it was a fitting departure for Doc Frasier - much better than the one given for Daniel during series 1 - even though he wasn't dead of course.

There was a point where I went off the reporter (forgive me for not remembering his name) - where he was ranting on about "doing his duty" - but, like everyone else, he grew on me.

Unlike Woolsey - but its good to see a new 'nasty' guy to replace Simmonds after his 'ejection' as it were.

ps. It was so obvious about Simon's kid - as he was lying there when he mentioned his son - it occured to me that it wasn't going to be a boy - and that he was going to end up calling it Janet. But it was nice anyway. Good episode though - very good - in my opinion

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 10th 2004, 4:29 PM

Fantastic episode 10/10!

Kinda overwhleming and a tear-jerker (just a tiny bit)

The way Fraiser died, it was so sudden, I felt Carter's pain, especially when Carter thought Jack was going to die, but you know the scene where Carter goes - "Sir, when you were hit and I thought..." and she started to cry, and Jack goes "Come here", I thought they were kinda peck on the cheek, but they hugged instead.

The Film guy, he was a right ol' and so was the NID agent guy, he got on my nerves, but glad to see he buzzed off, and the film guy realises that Stargate is more than TV news but more of a importance of a front line which men and woman die for the world.

Fitting memoral and Teal'c the big softie! Since I don't really know what else to say, still feel pretty sad, but Fraiser will be missed and will Teryl Rothery herself!

Posted by: Albion Feb 10th 2004, 4:29 PM

Well, I cried.

I have to say that if I'd come to this episode without knowing anything about it, it would have been almost unbearable to watch. And even knowing that O'Neill no way, no how was going to be dead by the end of it, I was still nervous. I wasn't sure about the method used to tell this episode at first, but I think it worked in the end and produced a very tense dramatic story.

I was surprised that they managed to get some moments of humour into this one, which were very welcome. But this was a great episode with some beautifully worked moments of character relationship in it.

I found the ad breaks very intrusive! Am looking forward to seeing this as a complete two hour episode on DVD eventually, without the distractions.

It was a surprise that Wells survived. The poignancy of them naming the baby Janet and Emmett finally getting his O'Neill interview at the end - and from a much more respectful O'Neill at that - was very well done. I think that last scene choked me up more than anything else.

Thought for a moment O'Neill was going to just stand there doing zip when Sam broke down - if he hadn't hugged her I'd have had to kill him. <g>

But lots of really good moments in here - from Daniel and Emmett especially.

No doubt I'll recall other observations once it's sunk in, but for the moment I'm left feeling snuffly, but knowing I've just watched one darn good episode.


Albion

Posted by: stargatesweetie Feb 10th 2004, 4:30 PM

I enjoyed tonights episode. I had wondered how they'd make the transition between the light-heartedness of last week to the more sombre story tonight and I think they made a reasonably good job of it.
I was surprised at the "who's died? is it Jack?" slant. It just didn't seem to sit well. The writers should have known that most gaters would know it was Janet and not Jack, maybe they should have just cut to the chase instead of trying to be clever?
The memorial was handled well, not too much soppiness and I liked it at the end when Jack had to give the interview though, a nice touch.

Posted by: Draconus Feb 10th 2004, 4:42 PM

OMG

I only saw the second half of the ep and it had me in tears.

I thpought it was excellent - It's not very often I cry at an ep

oh, well.... Off to see the begining

Posted by: jaffagod Feb 10th 2004, 4:50 PM

This episode was nothing like what I expected it to be and I do not imply that in a good way. It?s somewhat unusual for me to have so much to criticize in a new episode but there are a lot of problems in this episode. That?s not to say that it was all bad but it was definitely a serious let down.

The first and most painfully obvious problem was the directing, most particularly in the action scenes. This would have been an even greater problem had there been much action to speak of. After last week, I was expecting an all guns blazing fire fight but, much to my disappointment, it did not happen. In what little action we did see the ?cuts? in particular were very bad. It just did not feel?..real, if you know what I mean. It felt sloppy and careless, as has happened a few times already this season, e.g. using the P-90 sound for the MP-5. This was not only a problem during the action sequences though. Although it was less obvious it was still there. Things such as cutting Col. O?Neill?s interview, not even listening to the Memorial and the interviews with the NID guy were all done very badly.

That in itself would have been enough for the episode to attain a black mark in my book but that was not all. The way that a major character, someone who has been in the series from the very beginning, was dispatched so callously really infuriated me. It was just so cold and heartless! I can appreciate that they were trying to build suspense by trying to make you think that Jack was the one who had died but come on! They shouldn?t be doing that, its not right. Also, for her to die on camera was just?evil. I wasn?t even a Janet lover but that?s just not right. She only got about 10 seconds of time in her farewell show and that is something else that really (recurring) infuriates me. The ?Memorial Service? was also very cold-hearted. I seem to remember a much warmer Memorial Service for Daniel in Fire and Water, and he wasn't even dead!

There was the occasional good moment as well. I enjoyed it when Emmet saw ?that? video. He had fought very hard to get at it but when it showed someone that he cared about dying, he couldn?t handle it. That was one of the only parts which kept the episode afloat in my opinion.

Overall I was very disappointed with it and it gets 4/10 from me. I hope that next week?s ep. will be better.

Posted by: DayDreamingPixie Feb 10th 2004, 5:03 PM

Posted by: Kree! Feb 10th 2004, 5:05 PM

Very good ep!!!

Really liked this... Although I thought i knew janet was going 2 die, i was still worried that i was wrong and jack was going to snuff it! but i remebered that he said he was going to be in the pilot for 'that show' very nice ending with dj and the teddy bear.

Posted by: Tanwen O'Neill Feb 10th 2004, 5:06 PM

I just finished watching it, the only ep I've had tears over (and for me thats an accomplishment). Even though I knew that she was going to die, I was still shocked. I thought the suspense over who'd died was great, as in it kept you in suspense for so long, and I like that.

and there were some really sweet moments between all the characters. I thought the bit with the name call at the end was great, realy poinent, but most probably think it was sappy. Has to be one of my fave eps. really different to pt1.

RIP

Posted by: Raxor Feb 10th 2004, 5:16 PM

** from me
one of the worst ive seen, bit better than grace but not far off


for one things, Who hires these sh_tty directors anyway?
what im saying is those action scenes at the start were complete crap, and anything from the last six seasons is much better. i hate the sped up and muffled sound, and i could care less if we feel what they are feeling, i mean i dont want time wasted with bad cameras when they could just steady cam it all and make it smooth. i HATE jerky camera. and the part where Fraiser dies isnt too good anyway. what a BAD end for a GREAT character.
special effects were good as always, but you could have made them more prominant in the battle. but thats a minor niggle.
the battle scences were rather bad as you couldnt see hardly any of the jaffa, which i consider a bad thing. i like seeing the amounts of jaffa which would have added more atmoshphere to the fight. seeing the death gliders and alkesh was a nice thing to see. so that gets a plus

why couldnt fraiser be in this much more, she was one of the greatest characters, and to kill her off in that way, with hardly any scene it is just bad.


during the end i felt no emotion near the end and i didnt really care what was said
liked to see bob picardo, great actor, but i wish john de lancie was still in this.
i didnt like it when jack got hit becasue i knew he was going to be alright. nothing spectactular. and again back to bad directing.

this had potential to be so much more than what it was.
GET DECENT DIRECTORS then i would have enjoyed this episode so much more than i did.

this episode would have more of an impact if the spoilers werent plastered everwhere you went. i liked last weeks ENT than this (strategem) and that is saying something

one of the redeeming things was that Redshirt of the week didnt die, liked that part about the episode.


oh yeah
RIP Rest in Pieces

Posted by: Albion Feb 10th 2004, 5:30 PM

It would certainly have spoiled the moment for me if we had seen Jack's interview. The poignancy of the moment was in not knowing what he said and having it fade out when it did. The point of the moment was that he had agreed to do the interview and that he had obviously found a new respect for Emmett and for the project. What he said was really irrelevent to that and not showing what he said added to the impact of the scene and made it much more touching than if we'd continued beyond that point.

Re the action scenes - these aren't especially what attract me to the show, beyond that they're often a vehicle for some good interaction between the characters, which does - so I didn't think they were terrible. It did irk me just a little bit by using the 'Saving Private Ryan' silence after Jack got hit. Which I thought was a little heavy handed. But that was a very minor point for me.


Albion

Posted by: Tanwen O'Neill Feb 10th 2004, 5:45 PM

Rax I agree with you on the first action sequence, and the distinct lack of Janet over both parts.

But I think the point of Fraisers end is that it was supposed to be sudden and shocking. I knew it was coming and I was still taken aback. I think thats what they were going for. But I think her lack was mainly because she was dead for half the ep. This could have been a factor. Should of had more of her in part 1.

I think this is a love or hate ep.

Posted by: Raxor Feb 10th 2004, 5:49 PM

I wasnt shocked at all
i might be a little if i hadnt read spoilers. but after being amazed my last week ent its gonna be pretty hard to do again

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 10th 2004, 6:02 PM

Posted by: Emmyloo Feb 10th 2004, 6:03 PM

I have very mixed feelings about this episode. Part 1 was a pile of pants and on one hand i dont believe the second half was much better, on the other hand i think its an episode that will grow on me in time.

Unlike some, i thought the battle scenes were well done. The muffled sound, slow motion to normal/speed up, added a certain amount of drama and impact on the audience. I also thought the interview with the camera panning around showing Sam, Daniel and Teal'c at different stages in their interviews was well done too.

If i had not read the spoilers for this episode, i think i would have enjoyed it a lot more. I liked the fact they kept you guessing until about half way through the ep as to who died. If i had not read the spoilers, i would have sworn it would have been the other guy that died, not janet.

I have to say, once again, excellent acting by AT. Before this season, i never really thought of her as a good actress, more of an average one, but after watching this ep and others of season 7, my opinion of her is rapidly changing.

For an 'exit episode', Janet wasnt in it much was she?

If theres one thing i have learnt from watching this episode, its not to read spoilers. I believe my disappointment in this ep was largely due to the fact that i knew who was going to die, and practically every major thing about the ep from reading the spoilers. I would have enjoyed this episode a lot more if i didnt know what was going to happen. Some of you have been complaining about the suspense in wondering who died... Jack?... the other guy?... Janet?.... well i think the only reason that this was stupid to some, is because you knew who was going to die in the first place. This episode was very suspensefull and dramatic, but most of that is lost to us because we already know what is going to happen. In some episodes, this isnt a problem, and we can enjoy it even if we do know whats going to happen. But in an episode like this, suspense is the key, and by already knowing what is going to happen, it spoils it too much. I wont be reading any more of the spoilers for Season 8, i dont want to be disappointed to this extent by any other major things like this again.

Posted by: Lornyloo Feb 10th 2004, 6:05 PM

Although this ep. wasn't a usual SG style ep i thought it was really good and v emotional. The whole 'Jack dying' thing i thought was a bit obvious that he hadnt but then wen i watched it with my mum again (who doesn't go online or anything) she was practically in tears from the moment Jack got shot and had no idea it was going to be janet, so i think the only reason it seemed obvious to me was coz i read spoilers and go online so know about things like SG Atlantis and RDA being in the pilot ep. However even tho i knew he wasn't going to die it did kinda make u think bout the fact that it cud hav been him that died and i got bit teary over that (aspec after the carter scene)

Really liked the bits with Daniel in this ep, the stuff with the tape etc. was great and when the reporter saw the tape it was really moving. Thought Cassie could have been at the memorial service, and although they mentioned her hope they don't just brush over what happened to her.

Very little Teal'c, but actually thought that gd just coz tis really strange to see him acting emotional so prob better to leave it to imagination. (tho scene with him very cute, and so was his speech thing)

Great acting from AT when she was telling O'Neill she was glad he was alive etc. i had a tearful moment then. O'Neill always seems to get out of these akward moments with a 'Come here' and a hug, but twas a ncie scene and liked the way all the characters looked after each other (scene with Gen H and Carter cute too)

Thought there cud have been bit more action, even tho i not an action person and the scenes with Rob P seemed a bit random but i think its going somewhere in another ep so that ok

How predictable was the baby name! it should hav been a boy called Fraiser but hey guess was kinda cute

Oh yeh, and a few more lines for Chevron Guy! moving up in the world

Posted by: Graham Feb 10th 2004, 7:24 PM

Have to admit, I really enjoyed this episode. I think the main reason was, it was different to the others... basically the way they approached it with the filming. Reminds how they filmed "Black Hawk Down" more real, imo.

In this episode you had action, sadness and shipping, all what you want from an episode. I did like the way they kept you thinking who died, though... was a little obvious it wasn't RDA but made you think who it could be, didn't help that i knew who it was.

Anyway, great episode (10/10)... just need more like it tbh!

Posted by: Stephen Ball Feb 10th 2004, 7:36 PM

Just downloaded it (don't have Sky here at University) it was a really sad episode I only found out who died about two days ago, I wish I hadn't now, it would have been so much better if I hadn't

Still a very good episode, not sure about it being the best they've done as many of the cast have said.

Teal'c emotions coming out was a good touch, a warrior as strong and emotionless as a Jaffa showing his feelings and writing a speech, it shows just how over the years bot Teal'c character and Janets have evolved and how close they became

Posted by: kitsune Feb 10th 2004, 8:47 PM

I really wish it hadn't been spoiled for me.

I still had to wonder though. My friend and I watched the first half or so before getting dinner, and we guessed that Jack was probably wearing the new armor. I was wondering if both Janet and Jack had died though.

I don't believe the memorial service could have been much better, I just wished we had heard a couple more names. I also got quite close to crying when I heard the baby's name, even though I could see it coming. I also agree that we should have seen more of Janet, although she did well in the last episode.

I also like the lack of focus on the battle; I think putting more could have been inappropriate.

Is there any truth to the story the film guy told about mark somethingorother? I couldn't get his name to look it up. I thought it was really effective, and all of a sudden, I could see that this guy was quite a bit better than we had been led to believe.

Posted by: teryl_brat42 Feb 10th 2004, 10:43 PM

*teryl_brat42 stumbles into the thread with unshed tears in her eyes. for once in her life, she has nothing to say. she bows her head in a moment of silence for the fallen Hero: Janet Fraiser. *

******************************************************************

I honestly have no words to describe this episode other than not good enough for a send out of that magnitude. I now understand why Teryl was upset about being written out of the show. This episode did NOT do her justice. I did, however, love the reactions of the people closest to her. Sam was just as I suspected, crushed by the loss of her best friend. Teal'c was as stoic as ever, but did allow some emotion to show. Hammond was bottling up his emotions, like I thought he would and projecting them as anger towards the IDIOT documentary guy. Then there was Daniel. Poor guy, I really felt for him, especially the scene in the infirmary where he insists the tape be used. I had hoped for a better memorial scene, but seeing how it played into the film, I guess it could have been worse (though not by much). I cried my heart out during this episode, and it does receive a 10 on the emotion scale, but a lousy 5 on the overall scale. The only reason it does not get a 0 is because Janet WAS in it (automatic minimum of 5). I know that this is supposed to be not just about her, but about all the fallen men and women of our armed forces around the world, but it still feels like she deserved more attention.

I would like to state for the record that I KNOW this is just a TV show. Regardless, I bawled like a freaking baby!

Posted by: Mike Feb 10th 2004, 11:27 PM

For lack of a better term, losing a good character in a show sucks.

The battle scene was one of the best that we have seen in awhile. The on field action makes for a great listening experience when I'm able to see a cleaner version in surround sound. I see this as a 'turning the corner' episode, which sets the tone for the rest of the season and quite possibly the rest of the series. I just hope this isn't a 'jumping the shark' episode.

I liked how things turned around quickly enough that the journalist became somewhat of an alley to the SGC. Throwing in the NID angle was good. As a viewer there is some anger that needs to be channeled and the NID character was the prime lightning rod.

Seems like the SGC has been taking a beating the past few episodes. Their alliance with the Tok'ra and rebel Jaffa is in jepordy, unable to successfully take out Anbuis' new army, just slow them down. . . Carter getting a boyfriend. (<----Comic relief people).

I'd say SG-1 is long overdue to kick some serious azz.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 11th 2004, 12:17 AM

Posted by: chris_hotwire Feb 11th 2004, 12:27 AM

"Persoanlly I could watch Maj. Carter's head talk all day."
Nice quote... snuck up on you.

Jack's reduced schedule was well covered... of course he was unconcious for a while. The way I see it, with the scene when sam was running down the corridor crying, was she crying for both? I think Jack was probobly in some pretty serious trouble... and with the 2nd blow of janet dying...

I really, really didn't like Woosley. I like Robert Picardo's work, and this guy was just irritatingly dark. Perfect fit in the NID mould. Perhaps a little too smart for his own good I think.

After watching the ep, walking down the street I found myself very saddened... close to, but not at the point of crying.

And of course they have been implanting more of the sam/jack thing (hug). Amanda did get the emotions right... looking away, tears coming to her eyes etc... very convincing.

Posted by: Ares Feb 11th 2004, 12:46 AM

Excellent ep. Best of the season, easy.

Action scenes were done very nicely, I especially liked how you see our forces just completely outmanned with the gliders and such, but making a fight out of it. Good job there.

I, liked most, hated the docu. guy but grew on me at the end. I thought he would be a weiner to the end but I ended up liking him.

I like how Teal'c and Danny did in this ep. Good show of emotions, as they lost the person who has saved their lives for years. Got a bit tired of seeing Carter crying 24/7, though that was my only complaint.

Lastly, I liked the way they portrayed Janet's death, sudden and suprising. One second, you have a guy telling his wife his last words, seconds later you've got staff blasts finishing off the good doctor. Also, the memorial service was appropriate. You can't compare hers with Danny's as Janet was in the military and would have a different service.

As before, excellent ep. ****

Posted by: cjp_24 Feb 11th 2004, 2:56 AM

Wha? Robert Picardo!! He played his own self in that episode. He is a misrible get in real life, well, when I met him.. So I guess he played it well in that respect.

Good episode. Unusual story for a 2 parter. I hated the camera dude, he seems to get everywhere lately a bit like Robert Picardo

Cliff

Posted by: Cirus Feb 11th 2004, 3:35 AM

I have decided to wait untill Aesir posts his thoughts on the ep cause I useually agree with what he says

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Feb 11th 2004, 4:08 AM

Why not post your own thoughts and see if he agrees with you.....?

Anyway, let's reiterate. Best show of the season!

Posted by: Cirus Feb 11th 2004, 5:07 AM

Well normaly Aesir is the first to reply but today he didn't. but my thoghts

Now i have seen it all cut together it flowed differantly to how I thought but it was a great ep. I think the bit that got to me most was not seeing janet die but watching the expressions on the guys who were watching the video faces with Daniel screaming in the background Medic

Posted by: Albion Feb 11th 2004, 5:15 AM

Posted by: Lord Yu Feb 11th 2004, 5:56 AM

Fantastic ep.

My favourite of the season by far 10/10.
I thought they balanced the ep just right, however i'm not particularly fond of the pretend it was Jack who died thing as i think it was unlikely many people believed it as Jack is too important to be killed off here.

I am a bit annoyed i read all the spoilers as it took away from the impact of Janet's death, a great character i'll miss her .

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 11th 2004, 6:41 AM

What can i say but wow. Hell of an episode. Definitely up there with 'Meridian' in my opinion. I liked the bit at the end where they showed some of the documentary.

i noticed that after Daniel told that director to use the tape of Janet's death, he looked up, almost as if she had ascended. i may have been reading to much into this, after all it was the room where Daniel ascended.

I also thought that this could be the ep where it basically the beginning of the end for Hammond. im not going to put spoilers in, but with all the threads about what role he takes in 'The Lost City' episodes, it seems very possible that his situation in this ep leads to something.

Posted by: ramuund Feb 11th 2004, 7:33 AM

Ramuunds thoughts on the episode:

The previous episode and 1st parter to this one was very dissapointing and alot was resting on this episode to bring back the.....thing... that brought me too love sg1 in the first place- which has somewhat been lacking in some of the season seven episodes. Did it do that?

Hell yeah!

This is the best of season seven so far! *round of applause for them getting there acts together*. The way that didn't overload with Janet, in a way many other shows would of, was refreshing and very welcomed. I knew, due to reading spoilers last year, that it wasn't going to be O'Neill however the story had us wondering what had exactly happened to him...and a good way to fit his reduced screen time into the story!

To all those who complain about lack of suspense? Shut up your damm irritating whines and do the clever thing and- Stop reading the damm spoilers!
You have your self to blame and sound like idiots..........and i would like to however apologise to Raxor, who had not read the spoilers, but i accidently blurted it out whilst chatting- I am soo sorry...but still think you have the wrong end of the stick in your post.

The action was just enough and i like the silence as Jack got shot but i wasn't to keen on the slurred/slowed voices....just pure slow motion would of done it for me with out sounding like you have just had one to many to drink and trying to navigate the stairs! hahaha

The N.I.D agent, as said by Mike, was the perfect lightning rod for all are pent up anger and emotions. At one point i just wanted to strangle him!

The reporter, in the first part, was irritating but in the second i really felt for him but did, slighty, cringe at that little speech that he did- I didn't know if it was an act to get them to turn the camera on or to actually show that he cared to show the real truth. And what guts did he have to try and ring the president from the RED PHONE!

The lack of Jack was not so evident in this episode, unlike his crap excuses in others, and he didn't have to do alot of acting in this one but for what he did, especially the last few moments, i will give him the thumbs up!

Teal'c, whilst saying so little, said so much. His facial expressions were more subtle and just that showed that he had felt the loss of Janet. A brilliant few seconds of work there!

Daniel was one of the best performances of the night and the part where he is in the infirmary was really good as he pondered over past memories. The scene between him and the reporter was brilliant and got me going over that photographer.....Yes, the hard nosed cow of a british stone hearted b**ch will admit, i actually gushed like niagra falls on viagra! ....take me too the Sahara desert...i'll turn into a sea watching that episode!

I can see that effects of the sgc are starting to get to are sam and i think it is really good and i hope that it continues...allthough i suggest that we get her a pack of Kleenex..just in case Flood warning Well done Ms Tapping.....and should you need another job after Stargate- I have a few plants that could do with a regular irrigation system...pays well!

The best bit however of the show was the scene between Hammond and the reporter....after fading from the funeral to the office....you could see how it really 'got' hammond and do like that he didn't show, to much, emotion...just like a real general who has to keep things running and moving on.....I now know why i am going to miss the big guy!


If you haven't guessed by what i have written- then i LOVE this episode and i will give it a big 10/10..the best- keep it up guys and you never know..bring on the awards!

Stargate is back and better then ever!

Posted by: Raxor Feb 11th 2004, 7:34 AM

i think its one of these episodes that grows on you. i used to hate red sky but i like it a lot more now. and i think it will happen with this one. but its always nice to have nid trying to screw things up again!

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 11th 2004, 10:20 AM

i think it was a brilliant epiosode but i think they shud have had an infirmary scene with janet so we could see her die ( that sounds a bit mean doesnt it!)rather than just having her shot by the jaffa.
it would have been better if they showed that and not cut out the machine going beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep

other than that it was brill!
especially the AT's acting

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 11th 2004, 10:35 AM

Posted by: Mike Feb 11th 2004, 10:57 AM

Posted by: Major Sam Carter O'Neill Feb 11th 2004, 11:11 AM

I pretty much cried from the point you saw Daniles flashbakc coz i knew she was gonna die!! hell my Dad even knew because the TV magazine had a picture of Fraisier and said how she embarked on a perlious mission so it was kinda obvious!!

This was a very touching episode even though we knew Jack wouldn't die we didn't know too what extent he was injured!!

I thought the action or battle scene was very well done, as you had to get peoples feeling in there in the time given plus we knew there was many casulaties without having to see all of them die!!

Woolsey was there to lead to The Lost City i thought that was pretty evident especialy when he questioned Hammonds decisions!!

The memorial scene was touching and probably when i creid the worst when she stared reading the names and seeing all those peoples faces was very touching and made into a real team episode!!

One question though is Cassie now living with Sam coz Sam said she had to get back to her so i'm guessing she was at her house!?

Plus even though it was subtle, the shippy moment was there and it was exactly what people have been looking for since Grace the "i'll be there for you" moment and i think that classed as one of them.

Nice episode 9/10 i'm reserving my 10 for later on

Posted by: Marticus Feb 11th 2004, 11:56 AM

I thought the episode was done well. I agree with Mike on his point that the door is open to her possibly being back on the show. I am wondering if the reason behind her being killed off the show has anything to do with her missing most of this season. Several times this year I have noticed that her name was mentioned but she was not in episodes. Does anyone know if this was by her own choice or if they decided to write out her character?

Posted by: ccl28 Feb 11th 2004, 12:40 PM

The only part of this I thought was worth watching was the 2 minutes of video Daniel filmed. The rest of the episode was a mess... we start off with the point of view of Mr. Bregman, then it switches off to the POV of SG1, then back to Bregman... all just to setup a poorly executed bait-and-switch. I mean unless you hit your head after the last episode it's pretty hard not to notice that Jack took a blast right where they showed us the new armor was located in the last episode. I think there may have been a few 2-year-olds fooled, but I doubt anyone with higher brain functions fell for it. I won't care so much if they hadn't spent most of the episode setting it up. The cry fest at the end didn't really do it for me either, if I wanted to watch crap like that I'd turn on the Lifetime Movie Network.

I did almost die from shock when Chris Judge had 2 lines in a row. I think his only line in part 1 was "indeed" (which is just makes me cringe at this point). Line for line I think CJ is the highest paid actor on television.

Well at the very least this episode makes part 1 look a whole lot better, way to lower the bar. I think if you took the best parts from both episodes, you'd have one decent episode. You can chuck out all the speeches that Bregman had about media, chuck out trying to fool the audience and chuck out some of the precrying crying before the very last scene and I think it would be a lot better.

Posted by: jaffagod Feb 11th 2004, 1:17 PM

When I posted my original thoughts I said that I thought that the way the interview faded out was very badly done, and lots of people slated me for it. I have to now change my opinion of this, not because of what others have said but because after watching it again it dawned on me that there was a subtle point to it. That only goes to make the ep. slightly better. It was still terrible and still gets 4/10.

Posted by: Varun Feb 11th 2004, 1:33 PM

I keep telling myself that it is just a show but it doesn't help

I thought that telling my opinions before I saw the entire episode would be better since I dont really want to see the last 8 minutes. (Its paused at 32 minutes here)

Great episode - 10/10

And...its really really sad. I didn't hate the reporter guy before so his speeches didn't make me regret that I hated him or anything.

Great episode - (I should stop those tears dammnit )

And on a side note - the planet is named P3X 666. Ring a bell???

Posted by: kitsune Feb 11th 2004, 2:21 PM

Posted by: Major Gmed Feb 11th 2004, 2:24 PM

Well I've finally managed to get round to posting about the episode. I would have done so earlier, but I was a little emotional.

This episode was amazing. I really can't fault it at all. The acting of AT was phenominal, and had me crying before I could stop myself. I never cry at programs, no matter how sad they are, but when Sam was crying then I was unable to control it.

Daniel's way of handling it was good, the sitting in the corner reflecting on things, and possibly hinting at an ascension. I suppose we have to wait and see on that though.

Teal'c wasn't in this one much, but when he was it was kinda poignant. He was determined not to be made a scapegoat during the investigation, and then wrote a very touching eulogy for the memorial. So unlike the Teal'c we have known in similar situations, a very nice change of character.

I liked the way we started off disliking the reporter at the beginning, but after he sat with Hammond and showed the documentary, we all felt different about him. It was like he was determined that the sacrifice and suffering shouldn't go unnoticed.

Please excuse me while I go and sort out the tears that are starting again just thinking about it.

Posted by: Varun Feb 11th 2004, 2:48 PM

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 11th 2004, 2:57 PM

some of you seem to think that she might come back

i dont think thats is gonna happen
(we can hope tho)

Posted by: isis_sg1 Feb 11th 2004, 3:07 PM

to me it was the best episode of seson seven yet, the way they played with your emoions was clever (moving from a very sad and emotional scene to one with the technician, brilliant piece of acting that made me feel guilty for laughing when there was so much else going on it really added to the whole story, the way everything was set out was brilliant, the writing brilliant, the acting brilliant, the action brilliant (lots of brilliants)
the ceremony for Janet was very moving especially carter naming all the lives janet had saved but the best bit for me was the ending, it totally finished off the story perfectly 11/10 for me, i could watch it over and over again, (p.s loved the hug !!!)

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 11th 2004, 3:07 PM

I don't think she will come back either

But we got to remember, producers/crew make the episode in such a way the way it is, for a reason, they never do anything without a reason

Posted by: The Doctor Feb 11th 2004, 3:27 PM

The battle scene was brilliant. That Jaffa that hides in the trees is gonna be in it more.

Wish Janets death had been on screen. Maybe in slo-mo. Very emotional. Worthwhile episode to me.

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 11th 2004, 3:28 PM

i think they didnt want to concentrate to much on jante becuase it was supposed to be about all the people who have died in the service of the airforce, hence the video at the end of the memorial service with the teams in it

Posted by: jaffagod Feb 11th 2004, 4:20 PM

I'm too lazy too put in quotes so I will just refer to what other people have said. Someone said that not seeing Frasier's dead body left the door open for her to return. While, I think this is unlikely it got me thinking and it did seem strange that we didn't see her body. If you watch the entire episode it is noticeable that the only person who ever calls her dead is Mr. Woolsey (Bob Picardo's guy). Although it is implied that she is dead it is never explicitly said. The Colonel says that she "didn't make it" and Sam says that she "gave her life". This doesn't, in my opinion, leave the door open for her to come back...human. It does however give the writers a way to let her come back as an ascended being.

This is what I thought as her death doesn't seem as clear cut as it should. Or perhaps I am reading too much into something that has little meaning. Either way, it will be interesting to see.

Posted by: ali Feb 11th 2004, 4:24 PM

I just watched it...there's a big gaping hole where Janet used to be now. the memorial service was so sad!!! Great episode.

Posted by: Bonzai Feb 11th 2004, 4:53 PM

ok 9/10 ... well she dont do much Just like that guy said small People . so i will not miss her but call the babe Janet COME ON GIVE ME A BREAK .great Eps

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 11th 2004, 5:24 PM

First, let me just say that I am one of 'those people' who read spoilers...I'm a story junkie, I admit it. I like to know stuff, especially about this show.

I believe that this two parter was not just about SG1, but about the people at the SGC in general and the role of the media in how it portrays the military during combat. It also showed how SG1 and Hammond deal with the loss in their own, individual way.

Having said that, I will admit that the episode, technically speaking, was well executed overall on all fronts. Everyone had a legitimate point of view, even Emmett when he was at his most annoying to the SGC people. Say what you want, but he was honest and had integrity about what he was doing.

However...

this does not mean I liked it as much as some people, or agreed with the angle of the story. Again, this is my opinion, your results may vary under similiar driving conditions.

I admit that I like watching the teams in combat. Go ahead, sue me, but the point is that they had all this talk about how tough it is for these people to do their jobs, and then showed, what...five minutes of it? Like Emmett said, talking is one thing, action is another. I wanted to see these people in action, see them trying to fend off the ambush and make it out. I wanted to root for the underdog SG teams who were outnumbered and see what makes their job so damn hard...including Fraiser's, who really deserved more footage than what she got. Show don't tell.

Again, the show chose not to go that route, and that's fine. I'm just a fan after all, so there ya go.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 11th 2004, 6:42 PM

I think they should have ended that documentary of Emmet's with a quote from Janet when she was being interviewed in the infirmary;

"The reason why we all manage to persevere is coz we feel we're on the brink of understanding so much more, and not just about medicine, about who we are, where we came from, what THE FUTURE has in store and how we fit into the grand scheme of things..."

Posted by: chris_hotwire Feb 11th 2004, 8:04 PM

Posted by: Xantara Feb 11th 2004, 8:30 PM

Posted by: honeybl Feb 11th 2004, 9:35 PM

I downloaded this ep last night (Tuesday) and watched it tonight (Wed)... Ok, I'll admit, I do read the spoilers.. but still.. I have to say....



Oh... My... God!!!!.. I've never cried so HARD watching a TV show! Even though I knew Janet was going to die, I *still* cried at the news. Geesh! I'm getting soft in my old age..

For those who didn't like the way the action was shot... that it was unfocused or disjointed... I hate to say this, but real-life action ISN'T focused. That one fight scene felt REAL. I can't wait for the DVD's to come out. I wanna hear it in surround sound. And for those who have nit-picked about using the P-90 sounds for all the other weapons... So? It's what they have on hand in the sound room. I could understand the upset if they were using a 44mag's sound for a .22... or vice-versa.. But please.. isn't that being a bit.. well.. nit-picky?

I have to say... this is one of the only TV shows that I have *ever* watched that has gotten a 10/10 from me.

Posted by: Doomgoggles Feb 12th 2004, 1:25 AM

No, honeybl, the P90 and MP5 have very distinctive sounds; they ought to get it right. Anyways, I thought this episode was very good, but probably not one that I'll watch again anytime soon; I loved Janet too much. The fight scene was way too short, and didn't show their escape through the gate. I know its supposed to be about emotions, not action, but often battle can be the most emotional thing. (ROTK). My one major disappointment was not seeing Cassandra. I do hope we see her in the future. overall 8/10. now I'm gonna go cry some more...

Posted by: Kromando33 Feb 12th 2004, 4:58 AM

just saw it & loved it 10/10 from, quite possibly my favourite episode EVER!!, yer it had everything drama, emotion, action (ohhh yer i love those 'saving private ryan' style fire fights), it was keeping the sg1 style while being different & so damn entertaining, i was so thrilled with this ep straight after watching it i pressed stop & watched it again, i'm inclined to agree with them when they say heroes is the best show they have ever made. Damn i love sg1 ROCK ON!!!

Posted by: Raxor Feb 12th 2004, 5:04 AM

Posted by: Albion Feb 12th 2004, 6:55 AM

To the poster wondering if it was the producers' decision or Teryl's to leave...sorry can't remember your name and no time to go back and pull the quote:

I did read an interview with AT a couple of weeks back where she said she had a conversation with someone involved at high level with this episode (can't remember who it was) who was very upset. Said they'd written out Janet because they'd thought this would be the finale of the very last season and it would be a dramatic way to end the show. But they felt guilty since all that had changed and there was now a S8. AT said she told him that wasn't a problem - just change the script and have Janet survive at the end.

That was all there was, so no idea why they didn't take that route if they were feeling so bad about the decision and felt it was a mistake. Only thing I can think of is that by that point Teryl was actively looking around for another job and perhaps found something else to work on. Or that she wasn't that bothered about leaving anyway and felt the need to move on herself. But that's just speculation on my part.

BTW, have to vehemently disagree that this would have been a good move for the last ever episode and fervently hope they get out of that particular mind frame! When the show ends I want to know that the characters I've followed for 8 years and have grown attached to are out there happy and alive. I want a Voyager happy ending not a DS9 up in the air, what the %?$"?$"$? was that? <g>


Albion

Posted by: Lornyloo Feb 12th 2004, 9:27 AM

If this had been the last season it would have been an appropraite place to kill of a main character coz only a few more eps left but shouldn't be in last ep as takes focus away from the ending etc. I reckon they're going to kill someone else off in series 8 too tho

Posted by: honeybl Feb 12th 2004, 2:15 PM

Posted by: Carter-Hot Feb 12th 2004, 3:07 PM

Posted by: UltimateW Feb 12th 2004, 4:58 PM

snif snif... even tho it was a sad episode it was a good one.

I think it was sad for the documentery guy, that he didn't get to see the stargate in action or go to another planet with a sg team.

Dont need to repeat what everyone else have said, I like it.

8?/10

Posted by: Raxor Feb 12th 2004, 5:03 PM

DS9 ending > Voyagers ending

Posted by: The Moody Goa'uld Feb 12th 2004, 6:50 PM

I liked this episode, very well written. The dichotomy of Bregman and Woosey (sounds like some name of a songwriting duo) being outsiders seeking some kind of truth about what was going on. I think the Bregman character was especially well-written cause there was never a point where I thought they were trying to make Bregman an unlikeable character; contrasted with the slimy Woosey's interrogations, wild accusations, and threats of imprisonment, he was tomato target the first word he spoke.

Also I know some people are questioning why they teased O'neill getting hurt and not revealing it was Frazier until later on; like it was some cheap story telling device to increase suspense I agree, but I think that was done because the story was supposed to be told from the perspective of the journalist team making the piece on the SGC; so we found out as soon as they did. Should they have mixed that perspective with the usual perspective or instead went full-on and never showed the team at the planet in the first half and the battle afterwards? Anyone's guess. I thought it worked out well though.

Also keep in mind what kind of impact it would been had you not known that Frasier was going to die; I do not think it would have been that obvious then.

I think more Frasier in the episode would have been good though.

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 12th 2004, 8:20 PM

I have a question I'd like someone to clear up...I had to trash my d/l copy because of problems, but there was something I thought of after the fact....

When Siler does his test of the ceramic armor (away from the face, big guy ) it appeared to protect him 100% from a staff weapon at point blank range. Okay, granted he looked like a flaming shishkabob for a few moments....

The question I have is this...did O'Neill have this in his vest as well? Or Fraiser? There was a comment by O'Neill in that great J/S scene in the infirmary where he said something like "It didn't help Fraiser, did it?" I couldn't tell from my one viewing if that meant they wore it and didn't work, or if it didn't work because it hadn't been approved for use in the field so no one had it.

So here's the thing. If memory serves I think the shot at Fraiser came from an unprotected side, so I could see her taking the hit...but what about O'Neill?

Also, I'd like to know what people's opinion was of the way the interviews were done. I've seen other shows where the main characters are being videotaped/filmed by another party, and the audience is shown the interviews almost exclusively through the video camera's POV, yet it seemed to be used very little in this case, only in bits and pieces. In the majority of the scenes, the coverage was 'normal', if you know what I mean. Do people think it should've been more video footage? Less?...Not at all?

Posted by: kitsune Feb 12th 2004, 9:49 PM

Posted by: alexia_oneill Feb 12th 2004, 10:55 PM

After seeing this eposide I wrote a letter the the Stargate people and I thought I should share it will all of you.....


Dear Stargate Crew and Cast,
After seeing the newest episodes of Stargate I new it was time for me to write you guys a letter which I have wanted to do for a while but just haven?t had the time. First of all let me say how much I love the show, it is always the highlight of my day to watch any Stargate episode, old or new. As I watched the episode entitled Heroes Part 1, I thought it was, to be honest, a less than mediocre show, sorry but that?s how I fell. While I was waiting for the second episode to air I had a feeling that; if it was anything like the first; I wasn?t gonna like it very much either. Let me just say right off the bat that I think this was one on of the most heartfelt pieces of entertainment that I have ever seen before; television or movie. As I watched the episode unfold I found my mind racing trying to figure out who had been killed. Things that I had read and what I had seen of the episode preceding flooded my mind with thoughts. As I watched I thought to myself ?Sam and Daniel are being questioned; Rick had signed on for another season, okay Teal?c being questioned so it?s not him.? Then my mind concluded an unwanted answer and I whispered ?not Janet.? As the scene when Daniel handed over the tape finished and I watched it being played I just kept thinking about that poor woman who?s gonna lose her husband. And then it just hit me, I knew, and my eyes began to tier up. Then as the airman said that she had been killed I yelled ?Oh my god!! No! No! No! No!? I was in complete shock that she was killed; also as they started the memorial service I was saying ?please tell me she ascended because that is the only thing that will make this okay right now.? It was then that I began balling and I did not stop till long after the episode was over; which was after I finished writing this letter.
Being a person with family that was in the service and one in the service now, this episode expressed so much pride in what our armed service men and women do for us each day. I want to thank you from the bottom of my heart for writing this episode Mr. Cooper and to the cast and crew for making such an impact full episode. It seems that this chapter has gotten back to what the original idea of the franchise was about, human nature and the difficulties of living life. While it would cause me to fall into depression to see an episode like this one every week, I sincerely hope that you will do more heartfelt ones like this, not that I?m saying all the other episodes are bad (the opposite actually) they are very good. Please know that you will always have fans that love and adore you, not just the actors that we see everyday; I mean the guest stars, the extras, the writers, directors, crew, and the production team. We love you all for giving us such a wonderful show that we will watch, enjoy, and love for years to come. Again thank you.

A loving Stargate fan always,
Jillian Mummey
Chillicothe, OH


P.S. Put bloopers on the DVD sets!

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 13th 2004, 12:05 AM

Posted by: kitsune Feb 13th 2004, 1:51 AM

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 13th 2004, 2:20 PM

Posted by: kitsune Feb 13th 2004, 3:32 PM

Posted by: Zat_This Feb 13th 2004, 3:51 PM

As everyone has said, it is clear that its 10/10.

I found that this episode to be the best out of any episode I have watched on Stargate. I found the battle scene very nice and recorded very well. Al'Kesh Fighters, Deathgliders, explosions, jaffa being killed, very show the seriousness of the situation.

The whole deal with the airman getting helped by Dr.Frasier very brought out the risks these airmen deal every single day (In Stargate) and what very killed me and what made this scene very climatic was when Janet got shot.

It ended very well, with "Taps" and what Sam Carter said at the memorial service.

Best action, Best Episode ever seen on Stargate.

I hope that The Lost City I and II will be just as great as this episode!

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 13th 2004, 4:07 PM

Nice letter ALEXIA ONEILL- I unfortunately knew what was gonna happen. So I didn't get up and start shouting "No,no no no no!!" at the TV- it did make me jump though when I saw her lying their- her eyes open and plainly dead. (Sob! )

To tell you guys the truth I wish I hadn't been stupid enough to read any of the spoilers for Heroes- that is the only episode I regret reading about.
I think it would have had more of an impact had I NOT known that Janet was gonna die!

I personally think by looking at the shot fired coming at an angle to hit Janet at the back- either hit her high up in the back of the neck which would kill her instantly- esp if it shattered her spinal column. She was instantly dead though- it was obvious.

Posted by: Jon The UK SG-1 Fan Feb 13th 2004, 4:08 PM

This has replaced Paradise Lost as my all time fav episode
10/10......everything was so right in this ep......they did it perfectly. I'm to upset to say anything else

Posted by: Lord Anubis The Great Feb 14th 2004, 3:17 AM

Can someone PLEASE tell me what happend in the second episode ; i have only seen the first one (I live in france, a friend sends the series).
As fra as I know, something surpriseing happens, but WHAT ?

Posted by: Raz Feb 14th 2004, 3:40 AM

Posted by: only_1_mac Feb 14th 2004, 4:05 AM

I'm known for not feeling sympthetic, or anything when it comes to "sad" stuff. Pretty much, I often say "Fu-ck 'em" when it comes to stuff. Poor, Janet. This made me sad. I SO didn't see that coming. I don't read spoilers for they, SPOIL things. But, this shocked the sh-it out of me. I didn't see it coming. I was in total shock, saddness, and I... Fu-ck this was one sad episode. I can't believe they killed her. Oh, well... I'll be alright...

Overall, great damn episode. I thought the special effects were good. Cinema good! I don't know how, but it looks like they put up a larger budget when it came to this episode. Sad, but great overall. 10/10. No doubt in my mind. This, plus Part 1, were just awsome. I laughed so hard in #1. This one left me in shock. Great. I can't think of any series making me feel like this. GREAT!!!

Posted by: Felger Feb 14th 2004, 11:16 AM

I can only describe this episode in one way, excellent. I prefer the more emotional episodes of stargate and this was the best i could ever ask for. Especially how it had its "back to reality" form. With the disorganized thoughts, battle field chaos, mixed emotions and many different points of view.

Even though i had managed to guess that Janet?s death would be sudden to represent real life and real situations, it did not detract from the shock and effect of the scene for me.
I loved how there no final words from Janet, no words of regret. Just her doing the duty, which she loved, and then sacrificing her life.

I also adored the reporter (Brigman was it?) throughout, I throughout he was going to be brilliant from the start of the first part because of his great "love" he showed for accurately portraying the work of the SGC. He was always aware of the "extraordinary" work that the SGC had done.

I loved how all the members of the SGC treated him with respect at the end. Especially Hammond saying that his documentary was "something more" and Jack finally giving him the interview.

However I do disagree with many people who hate the NID agent, Woolsey. I think that character was brilliant because of how he represented so many people in government today who believe that money is more precious than a life but never admit it.

I was also waiting for somebody to use the events that took place to a political advantage to remind us that there are cold people out there who are not compassionate and bother only about manipulating it.

Even though Janet wasn't present for almost the entire episode i believe it was a brilliant episode to tribute to her and even made me cry.

Encase you haven't guessed after my load of babble. I LOVED this episode 10/10,best ever. So much that was brilliant about!!!!!

p.s. i would have replied sooner but my broadband power supply decided to melt!

Posted by: anastasia_beaverhausen Feb 14th 2004, 4:42 PM

Can't beleive I've forgotten to comment on this ep! I'm sure all my points have been mentioned already so I'll not say too much other than the main stuff.

First of all - 10/10! Now I have never given an episode full marks before so you know it's special when I do.

The sadness of the whole episode was waaay too much for me It was just such a contrast to Part 1, and even tho I knew that Janet died, it was still very sad to see her go. And even tho I knew that Jack couldn't possibly be killed, I was still in shock when he went down. It was something I was totally not expecting and the way they did it I thought was very effective.

I felt most sorry for Daniel than anyone else. Reason because he was with Janet when she got shot and killed, and because I've always maintained that there was possibly a little something something between Daniel and Janet (I still do) But I thought it was very fitting that Janet was there for Daniel when he died, and Daniel was there for her when she died.

Think I'll go watch the two parts together this time tonight and try not to get all teary-eyed...

EDIT: Am I imagining this, or was the planet called P3X-666? I can't remember where I'm getting this from, but if it's correct, it's a good name considering what happened there

Posted by: Sam's Sister Feb 14th 2004, 4:55 PM

I am shocked and heartbroken. More when I can think straight.

I agree with SG1nut about the quotation, though, hence my new sig:

Posted by: marckiuy Feb 14th 2004, 7:21 PM

ok so this is going to sound weird but i just watched the episode 2010 and janet was alive in the year 2010 but by altering time by telling them not to meet the ashen she may have altered time. and therefore by sending the message she killed herself!!!

Posted by: Chrominium Feb 14th 2004, 8:07 PM

In a way. By meeting the Ashen, they prevented all deaths via war. The Ashen protected them and gave them longevity at a cost.

On topic:
There are a few things I like to mention:

The reporter guy - yes, I didnt like him at first but I did feel sorry for him at the end of part 1 of heroes. He was, after all, trying to do his job properly and well. This was shown more in this episode that he isnt some evil guy that does whatever it takes to get his own version of the story.

The NID guy - This should have been seen coming. Storyline wise, SG1 has suffered a lot in the last couple of episodes. Major loses, coupled with the loss of two major active allies - the Tok'ra and the Jaffa Rebellions. Hopefully this will change in the last few episodes.

Janet - Okay, we all knew that O'Neil werent going to die, at least not permanetely. I was shocked to find out who actually died. And I am very angry about this. I know it would have taken the surprise away, but they should have given Fraiser more of a storyline before she was killed off. But at least she didn't die without meaning.

Another death that happened recently in one of my other favourite TV series had more of an impact than this (Angel The Series) episode unfortunately. It's just that even though we know that Janet deserves a respected death, the viewers has nothing much to show for it, at least not as much as if another major characters died - ie Daniel Jackson. I just wished they done more of the character before she died - but then that was maybe the problem.

It had none of the meaning or tribute of other character's death episodes and rank low on my list. This includes Daniel Jackson in Season 5 (Meridian), Doyle and Cordelia from Angel, Jen from Dawsons Creek etc
Even though they made it into everything about Janet Fraiser in the end, because of the surprise element, this episode wasn't really about her - her death was just there to show that a war is going on, and its doesnt always go well.

Posted by: Tracius Feb 14th 2004, 8:49 PM

Forgive me if this may have been said, but from an IRL point of view, (excluding the staff blast), the manner in which Janet died made sense and kept in tune with SG1's attempt at mixing a scifi plot with aspects of real military life.

To me, it dealt with two aspects of dying in combat. In Janet's case, man I'll miss her, it wasn't heroic, she didn't go down with a thousand spent casings around her; she was shot in the heart (based on a slow motion capture of her body afterwards) and died. No big gory bleed out scene, no emotional last words, just was the victim of an ass of a Jaffa with unusally good aim. That's how it is. I know she was a major character, but again, this show often tries to place real world people in not so real world places. Daniel said it best:

"It wasn't right, nothing about it was right, but it also wasn't your fault"

Welcome to the world of 99% of soldiers who have seen their buddies die. They will all tell you they were heroes, and I agree entirely, but its rare anyone gets the big hero death. Ever. You just get hit, and that's *all*.

And the second aspect briefly explored is the principle of "never leave a man behind", as seen by the NID agent and the wounded soldier. NID agent thinks it was a waste of money and lives to go back for one man. The soldier thought that if he hadn't have been hit, or at least had died instantly, Fraiser wouldn't have been put in that position and gotten herself killed. (Man, I hope that Jaffa took one in the nuts) It's a tough situation, and "it wasn't right" surely sums it up in three words pretty well, but that's why they're in the military. Honor? Glory? Maybe. Making sure your kids never have to see a fifteen million ton pyramid land and have thousands of soldiers pour out and blanket your planet with death? Definetly worth the risk of dying a regular, gruesome, statiscal death.

RIP Janet Fraiser, a heroine where it counts

Posted by: Thanos Feb 14th 2004, 11:14 PM

IM SOOOOOOO SAD.

Why is she gone ?? Why did they kill her off ??

She was my favourite member of the cast and now she is gone.


Attached image(s)

Posted by: Nat Feb 15th 2004, 5:19 AM

I lovede this episode, sat there with my mate who is not a Stargtae fan and watched it and she cried in it! I thought the Sam and Jack bit was so sweet and all you shippers out there would have loved it, I did!!!

That episode was one of the more powerful ones that I have seen, shows that even SG1 can't always save the day! Rather sad to see Janet die but so lovely where the little girl was called Janet. just one question though are they going to bring in another dr?

Anyway looking forward to the nest one!
Nat

Posted by: Arcady Feb 15th 2004, 5:43 AM

Posted by: Meem Feb 15th 2004, 11:09 AM

Liked this episode first time round, but second time found myself hitting the fast forward button several times - some parts were quite boring. However, it has to be said that some parts were excellent. AT's acting was superb, i found myself wondering if that fact that she is genuinely upset about Teryl leaving added to her tears, they seem so close when you watch the 'extras' on the DVD's. Part's of the episode were very moving and the scene where Janet was shot was very shocking, to see her lying there with her eyes still open really got to me

However, as i have said before, Cassie should have been in this episode, it makes the show less believable for her not to be there when her 2nd mother has just died. Also i think bearing in mind how long Teryl has been in the show, she should have had more air time in both parts 1 and 2 than she did.

Does anyone have any inside info on whether the cast and crew threw a party for Teryl after the show? I think that would be a good indicator as to whether she'll be back or not. Hopefully there will be some kind of 'tribute' to Janet/Teryl on the DVD when it comes out.

Anyway good bye and thank you to Teryl, we'll miss you lots

Posted by: three fries shortofa happymeal Feb 15th 2004, 1:21 PM

when are teal'cs thoughts on janet read out, coz he gave them to carter but it doesnt sound like him speaking at the end

so im woderin if we hear them or not

Posted by: stuck-with-macgyver Feb 15th 2004, 1:59 PM

This has to be the saddest episode ever! There were tears flowing more than once in that episode...okay okay, I?m a romantic and emotional ..don?t judge me.

It?s such a great one! I have many fav episodes but Heroes 2 is really amazing!

Janet is dead. I still can?t believe it. The infirmary is so empty without her! Seeing Daniel there all alone with this movie guy ...I?m going to miss her a lot! And the way how she died ..and now Cassie lost her Mom. That was so sad!

The hug between Sam & Jack....it was such a beautiful scene! I did cry there. It was such an intense moment and you could really feel exactly the same way as they did ...especially Sam. The way he looked at her as he got closer ...and then whispered "Come here" ...and he buries his head in her neck. OMG! This is not just an incredible shipper moment ..it?s an amazing scene between two friends and two people in general. I felt so bad for Sam! Thinking Jack is dead, the man she loves. Then getting to know it was not him but Janet, one of her closest friends.

The scene she had with Teal?c ...as he gave her his letter ..and they hugged. That was very touching as well!

The end where Sam is reading all those names of the people that Janet helped....and Sam?s voice close to breaking....oh brother!

This was an amazing episode! This silly film crew was SO annoying! I wish I could?ve thrown something at them! Especially as they were following Sam and she really had a hard time to control her emotions ..crying and all that.

Very sweet was that the baby was named after Janet! That?s so sweet! and sad again. I need more tissues. *sniff*

It was just an incredible and very touching one! The best one of Season 7 yet ...

Steffi

Posted by: Acco Feb 15th 2004, 3:41 PM

real good episode

nice action scence at the beginning, good to see several sg units in action at the same time... sounds weird, but i was happy to see that finally they had some real trouble and that o'neill got hurt pretty bad cause it's making the series more realistic. until now, they almost always easily dodged every possible danger (except in a few episodes, especially since season 6). the whole setting reminded me of saving private ryan (the explosions etc.) which i thought was a good dramatic thing

the rest of the ep very emotional (t'ealc finally managed to be a softie) and extraordinary performances regarding dialogs between all the characters (daniel - emit)... good thing because something new and innovative

i also liked the sam - jack thing (i think they have this new background melody to somehow underline or "announce" the sam & jack shipping thing that also was in grace you know what i mean?)... anyway that was very cute

very well done memorial service in the end

10/10

Posted by: youngjediboy Feb 15th 2004, 4:39 PM

I had been thinking... did they LEAVE Janet's body on the planet?
and if so... wouldn't it be possible for her to come back as Gou'ald or Tok'ra?



what would be funny but really messed up would be if this whole death thing was just a way for Janet to avoid Bregman....





you know, they said originally that this would hav been the last season right? is this the reason why Season 7 so far has been crappy? this two parter of Heroes is the only thing i've liked so far... which actually seems like a REAL episode... most of season 7 seemed to have just been fillers, and original episodes they planned are stretched out..

if this had been an earlier season, probably everything that happened up till now for season 7 would probably have been crunched down into 2 or 3 episodes with NO filler or stalling time.


same about budgets too... this episode actually didn't look like it was produced with pocket change and shot in someone's backyard (regarding the outdoor action scenes)

have they just lost a lot of their budget when moving to Sci-fi channel or are they just saving up so they can do something really big at the end?



yeah, i noticed the 666 pretty clearly on Daniel's tape when he put it on the bed.




i've also been wondering... has Cassie ever really been shown? i mean... after Janet took her in, it's like we never see her again, we only HEAR her name mentioned lots of times. maybe the girl who played her grew up and looked a lot different or became busy with her own projects?



and that is VERY WELL SAID Tracius. one major thing i've always loved about SG-1 is how the show tries to stay realistic even if being a sci-fi show.

Posted by: SG1nut Feb 15th 2004, 5:11 PM

Posted by: invisible painting Feb 15th 2004, 6:51 PM

Posted by: teryl_brat42 Feb 16th 2004, 12:57 AM

Ok, besides being irked that no one bothered with the moment of silnce bit (j/k y'all ) I have a few more things to say/add now that I've composed myself.

1. As for Janet being hit: If you pause the tape and watch it frame by frame, you can see smoke coming from her upper torso. This probably means that she got hit above the vest insert (even though she is very small and the vest should have covered all of her). Hence why the new inserts didn't help her.

2. OMG the absolute worst moment is the moment she gets hit. I swear she freaking 'squeaks' when she flies back. This is the worst part for me personally. 'Worse than seeing her laying there with smoke coming from her?' you might ask. YES! Much worse. Go watch it again, listen for the squeak, and then tell me it's not the worst part.

I'll post the rest later, my roomie wants to go to bed. Oh, here's something that RocketChick made that I though would be appropriate. Nothing big, just fitting.

Posted by: medea Feb 16th 2004, 9:31 AM

Will they address the Cassandra sitch on any of the upcoming episode?

Posted by: ChewManFuu Feb 16th 2004, 11:52 AM

Bye Bye Janet. We'll miss you.

I was suprised they killed someone off. After 7 seasons on a show you would think that they could have someone leave gracefully instead of being dead. Kind a like they are doing to Jack O'Neill. He is in episodes breifly and then soon I bet that he'll retire or get reasigned.(but to what?)

I knew the instant that Jack got shot that he had the new armor insert in his vest. They even made it look a little different when the blast hit him. Shot him back a ways too. Also cool.

I never like to see Sam cry. She does it very well for an actress. Very convincing. But still..... and Jack doesn't like to see her cry either. But he does what every guy does to a crying girl. Hug them and comfort them. Just like Teal'c did. Big guy.

Did anyone notice the 666 on the tape that DJ gave to the reporter guy?
Did anyone notice that the reporter guy had obviously had a stroke? the right side of his face hardly shows any sort of emotion at all. And his mouth doesn't work right either. That started to freak me out half way through the show.

I would pay real money to hear Jacks interview at the end....

Cheers
CMF

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 16th 2004, 1:23 PM

Posted by: Reshef Feb 16th 2004, 1:39 PM

Well, I have to admit. I am jealous! I can not find the episode on the net. Damn, after watching Heros 1 last night (thank God for Satellite PVR), I could not wait to figure out what was going to happen....and spoilers HA, I want to watch Heros 2 even worse now!:(

Posted by: Major Gmed Feb 16th 2004, 3:12 PM

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 16th 2004, 4:30 PM

Posted by: Jbchizl78 Feb 16th 2004, 4:47 PM

I have a question that hopefully someone can answer for me...How many more seasons of stargate are there goin to be, i would asume unfortunatly that it is on its last leg but i was just wondering if anyone knew. Thanx

Posted by: Reshef Feb 16th 2004, 7:05 PM

Well there is going to be at least 1 more (and probably the last for SG-1), not to mention the new series starting later this year called Stargate Atlantis . Heck, I have learned all of this in less than 24 hours thanks to this forum. I would assume that since you have posted more than me, that you would know this...or are you asking for the crystal ball....if so, then based on the spoilers that I have been reading 8 is enough.

Posted by: Laurla Feb 16th 2004, 9:26 PM

What is going to happen to Cassandra?

Posted by: dburry Feb 17th 2004, 4:00 AM

As every writer, director, etc keeps joking about on the DVD comments for previous seasons.... ya "can't kill the guy whose name is above the title in the credits," that's a given, at least not until the end of the whole series, so nobody who really thinks about it could possibly be fooled by that bit of misdirection. Although that whole vietnam story was kind of a giveaway...

However, the viewer perception of that list of names seemed much too short. There were lots of ways that could have been fixed. For instance show carter leafing through a great many pages when teal'c handed them to her (for a man of such few words that would have been memorable enough to later make the connection). Obviously we cannot listen to the whole list when it's that long!

Other than that there were many many nice touches to this episode, even though I am very infuriated at who they killed off! It's worse than when Martouf died! Must leave her there on the battlefield so she can go into a sarcophagus or something! We fans like her too much, she's like carter's sister or something ok? (though, we didn't actually **see** her body get hauled back and buried, so..... I guess you never really know...)

Posted by: Aesir Feb 17th 2004, 1:20 PM

Eeeeh, I'm going to do something I don't normally do and post without reading all the posts before as there are 5 pages and I really don't have time

After part 1, I was quite dissappointed that the only thing that the episode had in its favour was in my opinion the humour. I was thinking that they were saving it all up for the second part and even Christopher Judge said that we should watch both at once as it doesn't make a very good cliff hanger. Now, with that in mind I was very dissappointed with this episode. Everything I had heard implied that it was going to be one of the best ever, but I really didn't think it came anywhere near close.

There were some high points and I can see how someone who didn't know Janet would die could really enjoy the suspense, but for me it just didn't work as well. I guess it was because I knew that Jack wasn't going to die. It was reasonably clever how they did the thing with making us think it was Jack that died, especially when you consider that it was their way of keeping him out of the episode (to fit in with his reduced time schedule), but I think it somehow degraded Janet's death and I just didn't like how it was done

I also had a problem with how they didn't actually really show her dieing and how we only saw it on camera and a brief scene. I think that it would have been much more powerful to show the whole thing. It might have prevented them from doing the "Jack is dead" trick, but since the episode was so disjointed and out of sequence anyway they could have got away with it. I think that Janet's character deserved more and this episode didn't really do her justice in the way that I would have liked.

I think overall I just didn't like the approach that both parts took with the reporters and lots of filming and camera shots etc.. In my opinion there was also a little too much going on in this episode, but I guess it at least provided something different from your usual Stargate SG-1 episode.

I'd give this a 5.5/10 - pretty average but some high points.

Posted by: Reshef Feb 18th 2004, 11:15 AM

I think that a budding romance with (daniel? just a thought) would have spiced things up if it had been started earlier in the season. Just to make the impact harder felt. Imagine what it would have been like if her and Sam had been planning a wedding or honeymoon...heck even speculating on the subject. I agree that the way it was done did not really make it hit home as hard...
Do you think she will come back to the show periodically reprising her role as an Asgard?

Posted by: S.K Feb 18th 2004, 5:01 PM

Posted by: sidewinder Feb 19th 2004, 7:58 PM

I read most of the replys here, but I had to start skippig them on the grounds that many of them got repetitive. I pretty much saw three groups here:
1) The "gaters" who were dissappointed because they werent surprised, and then admitted to having seen spoilers. Viewed in the vacuum of blisfull ignorance, this was a great episode. I've stopped watching SG-1 commercials specifically for this reason. Here's a tip for those who complained about not being surprised - Stop ruining it for yourself. You know the day and time a new episode will be on. Watch it then, dont think about it until you watch it, and then enjoy the unsuing suspense.
2) Those who are dissappointed about the fact that Doc Frasier has been killed, and dissappointed about other emotional "non-action" oriented moments. The reason we are sill able to enjoy new SG-1 episodes is because the writers are willing to take chances, take the series into new directions, and -wait for it- actually develop the characters. Everyone here would be up in arms if Carter got killed, but the only reason that we would be pissed off is because the writers had skill enough to make her into a part of our consiousness. Kudos to them.
3) Finally, those who can appreciate what they are watching, and why they are watching it. To those people, myself included, I say keep it up. The writers are doing thier job for people like us, people who see the art, and see the skill.

Posted by: Metel Setek Noximus Feb 20th 2004, 2:26 AM

Did anyone else notice that the planet that frasier died on was P3X 666???


Kinda fitting huh!?

Posted by: S.K Feb 20th 2004, 9:40 AM

Posted by: PinkPeril Feb 20th 2004, 11:48 AM

Posted by: Space_Monkey Feb 20th 2004, 10:22 PM

Forgive me I'm leaving on a mission trip early tomorrow so I haven't read any of the other posts yet, but I needed to post on this one today.

Wow, dramaticly this was amasing. I loved it and hated it. I figured this was the one someone was going to die in and my dad hinted that it would be the doc but I didn't want to believe him.

I can't really nitpick this one - at least not for a very long time. It was well done, though they drew out finding out who had died for what seemed like a painfully long time (I knew it wasn't Jack but couldn't dream how they would have anyone else die). When we found out, they way they told/showed us, I wanted to throw up. Even though I knew it was coming I was still to stuned to even think.

It made me want to thank everyone who has risked their lives in the service of our country and thank all the people who have had reletives risking their lives in our service. We don't tell them that enough.

To any who are reading here - Thank You! We really do owe more then we give back.

Got to go - I'll post more on this in March after I come back.

Posted by: stargatefreak Feb 20th 2004, 10:23 PM

I liked this episode very much. Just one thing to say to those people who whine about no suspense. STOP READING THE SPOILERS!!!!! I just want to say that I will really miss Janet. I am really relieved that Jack wasn't killed. Not that I thought for a moment that he would.
The action scenes weren't really well down. They were fragmented and really rushed. Not up to usual standards.
Overall I loved the different ways the people on the base showed their emotions. It was kinda wierd how Sam kept crying. The Sam/Jack hug was really cute, I loved it!!!!!!

Posted by: NDIrish42350 Feb 20th 2004, 10:23 PM

I just saw the episode, and I have to say it is one of the best of the season. I know not too many people like season 7, but personally I think it is good, so it means something when I say it is the best in the season.

Many people were complaining about the action scene. This is the best action scene SG has done in quite some time. I was very impressed and happy with the way it was done. Someone said it was too Saving Private Ryan-like when Jack got hit. All movies and shows that have war scenes in them do that type of thing when someone goes down, and it adds effect to it.

Many are saying that Janet wasn't in the episode enough considering it was the final episode she will ever be in. I think it was nicely done. She has never had extended time in an episode before, why would they put her in more than usual about her death? I think that its gonna stick with us longer because of the way she screamed when she got shot. No one is ever gonna forget that 5 seconds of SG, so I think it was unnecessary to have her in it more.

Posted by: fin Feb 20th 2004, 10:35 PM

I've probably seen just about every issue (but I missed the first half of this because of vacation) and I must say that this one really sucked in the way it was written. The tedious sessions with the reporter being told to turn off his camera over and over, the very exciting editing session that took up about 5 minutes (yawn) and, of course, the evil senator's flunky grilling the cast (again), all made the important stuff going on boring as hell. Too bad doctor, they really screwed up your exit.

Posted by: SG1Beans Feb 20th 2004, 10:47 PM

geez i loved that episode but i love Fraisor it will be a sick world with out her but we will go on byeRyan

Posted by: Deeemster Feb 21st 2004, 12:34 AM

This episode was a perfect example of why I do not read the spoilers. I thought the battle scene at the beginning was great. Knowing that someone was going to die I didn't even think about it being Dr. F. I thought the way she died was very fitting. She was always the behind the scenes person and was rarely in the spotlight. She was killed while saving anothers life. The memorial scene was done very good I thought. They focused on how she had saved so many lives. They didn't need to show a long speech, it gave the point about her impact in the SGC. Some dust must have gotten in my eye because the memorial scene fading to the completed project and Daniel visiting the new born baby had my eyes watering. Can't wait to get this on DVD to watch the two EP together without commercials.

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Feb 21st 2004, 12:44 AM

I thought this episode was one of the best ever. I am still bawling my eyes out.

Posted by: arwen964 Feb 21st 2004, 1:28 AM

Although it really sux that they killed one of my fav characters on the show I really liked this ep, and I'm still crying. Even though I had read the spoilers for this ep and knew that Janet died it was a shock at how sudden it happened.

The interactions between characters was beautifully done. Although I had been sniffling throughout most of the ep, esp when Teal'c hands Sam what he wrote about Janet, the flood gates opened when the documentary guy found Daniel sitting alone in the infirmary.

For me the one piece that was not resolved was what happens to Cassie now?

Posted by: coldfire Feb 21st 2004, 2:50 AM

Well I just finished watching this ep. and started reading these posts from the begining, glad I hadn't done so earlier, would have taken all the punch out of the impact I felt from watching it tonight.

1st off...
Combat scene I thought was done a bit different than usuall, and actually found it more what I would think is realistic than the previous attempts at it. I guess for me it was the little things like the radio transmission during the gunfire, they didn't appear to be staged as the usuall, but more like live on the moment.

And then...
I thought for sure that Jack had bitten the big one, and didn't dwell to much on it at the moment, but when I saw the video that Dr. Jante Frasier got it, that just stunned the hell out of me, didn't see that one comin at all. That put me in shock and wasn't until somewhere betweeen the services, and Daniel sitting in the dark corner in the med lab that got me a bit teary eyed. Great impact and deliverance, in my humble opinion.

And whats to become of poor Cassie... How many think Sam will take her? Hey here's a far fetched idea, what about Sarah, that way she could make periodic apperances now that she's rid herself of Osiris. Just a thought...

Posted by: Spence Feb 21st 2004, 3:54 AM

Posted by: gategirl Feb 21st 2004, 8:41 AM

Wow! Had to tape this one and just now watched it.

Was totally suprised that Janet go killed. Broke my heart. We are so used to everyone being saved or ascended that it never occured to me that someone we love would be Xed. Made me cry, and not too much does anymore.

I loved the ending. As a Vet I really appreciated the tribute part.

All in all, thanks Peter for yet another great episode. Now, could you please send us a funny one. We need a little levity.

Gategirl

Posted by: seymour Feb 21st 2004, 11:39 AM

IMHO, this really was a "botched-up" mission by SG-13 and subsequent events do seem to warrent a re-evaluation of Hammond's Command by "independent" authorities.

SG-13 acted as if they were out for a little hike! The "Daniel-type" was allowed to wander off on his own without military support, the whole team did not appear to be showing any additional caution after being attacked by the robotic flying creature. When the "dad-to-be" was shot, he and the other SG-13 member were just walking along chatting, no sign of extra awareness of their immediate environment. No-wonder a Jaffa was able to creep up and shoot one of them in the back.

The Colonel of SG-13 did not make any good decisions about how his team should monitor the perimeter! Is he fit to lead Stargete Atlantis? Funny (in a "I'm trying to be like Jack O'Neill way"), but then O'Neill might have been out studying the area himself and not lying down having a little rest.

I know hindsight is 20-20 but SG-13's overly-casual style was a source of concern for me before the attack. Hammond could have/should have ordered SG-13 back to the SGC, and examined the drone before allowing SG-13 to return to the planet.

It is also clear that the film crew and interviews of Carter and Jackson delayed their translation of the drone's message. Maybe they weren't clear about their priorities.


These are either flaws in the script or intentionally included events to make Hammond to look unfit to lead the SGC. Hammond was portrayed in an incredibly convincing and moving way but Hammond has been in the job for too long.

I recently saw "Sight Unseen" for the first time (SO not a good episode). Hammond made an obviously bad decision in discounting Jonas's report of an alien sighting! Surely, after 6 1/2 years of wierd-stuff at the SCG, thay would ALL have been more cautious.

Maybe the producers are using these episodes to remove Hammond from Command and make way for O'Neill, but I would have liked Hammond to have a more dignified and fitting exit than to be pushed aside for poor command decisions.

Posted by: IceQueen Feb 21st 2004, 12:43 PM

I really regret having read all the spoilers, but I can't blame myself -- I was in too much suspense! Was I supposed to go the whole week without knowing who is going to die?

Although yeah. If I didn't read the spoilers I'm pretty sure I'd enjoy the episode like 100 times more. I liked:
- how Hammond was in this one, like, how he was repressing his emotions, and how that made him erupt at the NID guy (Dr. from StarTrek);
- how Sam stormed down the corridor crying "Leave me alone!" at the media guy, if I didn't know, I'd be totally sure it was Jack who died;
- how Sam and Hammond bonded (that was a really good part, and everyone seems to have missed it), when she said, "Sir. How are you holding up?" I felt that was very well done. And how Hammond says, "You think you value the life of every man and woman in your command equally" etc. (At this point I would probably also think it was Jack who died.)
- oh, and of course the scene between Jack and Sam. "Sir... when I saw you were hit..." (emotion in her eyes, it just was gorgeous, and then she got tears, and looked pitiful, and that's when Jack hugged her)
- Teal'c & Sam scene. I felt it was really thoughtful of him to write the speech for her. Also, viewers don't expect as much from Teal'c as they do from Sam, so if it's not completely stellar, they're more likely to be forgiving.

IMHO the very reason that Janet wasn't shown so much in this episode (and who was, really?) is that they wanted the viewer completely unaware that it could have been Janet. I mean, when they said "Medics and Dr. Fraiser to the gate room," I didn't even realize they were going to send them through, I thought that was for first aid to the wounded who came back.

I also really felt for Wells (the guy who was dying, with the pregnant wife), and both me and my SO choked up (majorly!), at when Daniel came over to his house.

"This is my wife Marcia and my daughter"
"Oh, you had a daughter. What's her name?"
*pause*
"Janet"

I wanted to cry.

And I don't feel that the ceremony was heartless and cold at all: it was gorgeous, I thought it was a very good idea to name all the people who owe their lives to Dr. Fraiser.

I am wondering what'll happen to Cassie now. Her life seems to suck up to this point. So much distress. But on the other hand, I'm sure she'll turn out all right, because in the episode when they go back to the past, she meets them in the future (and she's 80, and she's just fine).

Posted by: Sam's_twin Feb 21st 2004, 1:20 PM

Overall, I enjoyed this episode and thought it was very well done. Contrary to what early posts say, I thought the battle scene was good (although it was short) and you did see the occasional Jaffa.

The Jack/Sam moment is just another illustration that the whole Sam/Pete thing is not where Sam's true affection lies. She may like the guy and have fun with him, but it is still Jack that is in her heart. That would have been the perfect scene to have the two of them.... well... you know... kiss each other! The way Jack took a couple steps towards Sam and stopped, well... he looked like he wanted to. They both did.

My one big criticism of this episode was the whole Woolsey "investigation" sub-plot. It did not belong in this episode and seemed very much like an after thought that was "plugged in" to set-up future episodes. When the episode ended I was like... what was the point? His scenes were a waste of screen time (IMO). TPTB would have done better to include more battle scenes, possibly some scenes showing evacuation of the wounded, more scenes with raw emotions. Yes, that would have dimished the suspense they were trying to create with the whole "who died?" Jack or Janet thing, but I am sure the writers could have filled Woolsey's screen time with something else that fit better with this episode and written Woolsey into another episode with more flow.

Posted by: DrFraiser Feb 21st 2004, 1:53 PM

I'm amazed so many people loved Heroes 1 and 2.

I know all you "excellent episode 10/10" people will howl in indignation at me for this. I thought both episodes were boring with lame story telling. A media guy comes to document daily operations of the base. How many times have see seen this story? The story wasn't at all fresh. I found myself turning my VCR off halfway through the episode because it was just so Jump the shark.

With Heroes pt 2, playing up "was it Jack" was most annoying too. Stargate never used to insult its fans intelligence. Now it does. Anyone with a 1/4 brain knew it wouldn't be jack. He's the friggin' lead character. Playing it up for 50 minutes was rediculous. Then the media guy giving a speech where it tears everyone up. Bah. and BTW it was totally unneccessary to kill off Janet. Plus, as others have mentioned not having Cassie there was unrealistic storytelling.

Sorry folks, this continues the trend of garbage that is S7. I've been with the show since S3 religiously. Now I found myself considering different plans on Friday nights. The show no longer has the magic, compelling bad guys or interesting topics anymore.... amazon Jaffa Women, must I say anymore - Cliche!

The true sign of jumping the shark - "character development." Chimera is the definitive SG 1 JTS episode for me. With "Birthright" a close second.


Bah.

Posted by: Lana_Jackson Feb 21st 2004, 2:02 PM

S P O I L E R.....S P A C E (just in case)
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Wow......such an emotional driven episode. It almost parallels Meridian. But, the difference for me was that when I saw Meridian for the first time, Season 7 had already begun. So, I knew that Daniel would be back, and so it wasn't as devestating. But, the reason why I find Meridian sad is because of the amount of emotion that was just pouring out in the episode from all the characters. For me, it was hard not to get emotional, and I not because Daniel was "dying" ('cause I know he comes back). But, more for the characters who were mourning for Daniel. I mean, they were saying good-bye to their dear friend. It was sad.

In Heroes 2, I truly felt the emotions just pouring out in this episodes whether it was frustration, devestation, anger, or what have you. For me, it was hard not to get caught up in the emotion with these characters. Now.....I know it's just a TV show. But, for me, when I get hooked to a TV show such as this I tend to get attached to certain characters (i.e. Daniel, Jack, Sam, Teal'c, Janet, Gen. Hammond, etc.). I really liked Janet Fraiser. I knew she was gonna die, but I guess I never realized how attached I was to her until I watched Heroes 2. When we hear Janet get shot in video footage and Daniel calling for medic, that's when it hit me Janet was going to dye. Then, we hear that Janet did not make it. That's when I lost it. After that, I was a teary mess. Then, Daniel in the dark ICU sitting in the corner, and I could tell he had been crying. That got me teary, too. And, when Daniel talked about how he died in that room and ascended, and how Janet didn't want to give up on him. That was touching. Then, the memorial service was beautifully done. When Taps was being played that's when I lose it again, and I get all teary. Sam gave a beautiful eulogy which I believe was partly written by Teal'c.

Now.....Bregman......at the beginning of this episode I wanted to hate him. I mean, I wished someone kick off the base. I felt he was way over the line. Poking his nose where it don't belong. I felt how the others felt. Especially, when he came into Daniel's lab, and asked about the video footage Daniel had recorded. I was like, how dare he say something like that, or even mention it. I was with Daniel when he kicked Bregman out of his lab. But, then it was Bregman's monolouge about Krystovski, and it made me think just like Daniel. Then, like Daniel, I understood why Bregman was there, and that was to bring out the best of the SGC, and what it stood for. Also, to honor the men and women who risk their lives to save Earth, and I that's why Daniel wanted Bregman to use the footage after all to give Dr. Janet Fraiser the honor she deserves. Oh....the scene where Gen. Hammond and Bregman make amends was very proper, and shows what good man Gen. Hammond is.

Oh....the there was the Wooley guy (think that's his name). Gee....he sounds just like Sen. Kinsey in Politics. What a jerk. Ah.....he just another villain to hate. I guess Kinsey needs someone to back him up.

I love the scene where Daniel visits the house Simon and Marci Wells, and they show off the baby girl. I thought it was cute when he shows up with a teddy bear in his hands. How sweet! What a pretty little girl! I thought it was really touching when they (Simon and Marci) named her Janet.

Oh.....and nice touch with Jack finally doing his interview with Bregman. Though, I wish we could've heard the interview. I'm kind of curious of what Jack had to say. Or, may be it's kind of assumed that we already knew what he'd just might say.

I definitely give Heroes 2 to thumbs up!

Good-bye, Janet. She sure will be missed. The show just won't be the same.

Posted by: Raxor Feb 21st 2004, 2:35 PM

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 21st 2004, 2:56 PM

Posted by: LethalEncounter Feb 21st 2004, 3:02 PM

There seems to be a division separating the people who saw the spoilers and the people who didnt. The people who saw the spoilers were more likely to dislike the episode than those who didnt. Thankfully I didnt see the spoilers so I was able to watch the whole thing without knowing what was going to happen. The battle scenes could have used a little more work, but I enjoyed the realism of the combat. In some of the previous combat episodes it looks so staged, this has a realistic quality to it. Whenever I thought Jack died, I figured he would return to life in some cheesy fassion, knowing that he couldnt possibly have remained dead. Although its a shame to lose Janet, it was better than having someone die and then suddenly something happens that revives them. Overall it was done quite well in my opinion. Although I guess I should have known they were going to kill her off eventually since that new doctor was going to play a large part for the Lost City episode, it was still a shock when they said Janet had died and Jack was OK. Was a good episode, I dont particularily like episodes with a lost of emotions, but this was done very well

Posted by: Arcady Feb 21st 2004, 3:03 PM

Sci-Fi has posted a couple of minute-long deleted scenes from this episode:

http://www.scifi.com/stargate/episodes/season7/0718/

You'll need http://www.real.com/ to view them.

Posted by: Lana_Jackson Feb 21st 2004, 4:37 PM

Posted by: Lit Gal Feb 21st 2004, 4:59 PM

Since the discussion has fallen into those who knew and those who didn't, I have to admit I knew, even though it wasn't by choice. Some people in teh general discussion need to learn how to white out their spoilers! Even if I hadn't accidentally read spoilers, I would have know that it couldn't be Jack because he is the star. Between the impossibility of killing someone who appears in ads for upcoming episodes and the big deal the techs made out of the vest, I would have known it wasn't Jack, which made the 30 minute "it's Jack" thing very annoying. I did find it insulting; they should have just refused to tell him anyone or let us think the young airman died.

The reactions CJ, AT, and MS were perfect. Each one fit the character to a tee. In several episodes, I could see that Sam and Janet were truly best friends, so I expected her open pain, and Daniel's withdrawl into himself really fits his personality. And I loved that Teal'c who can't say with words what he is feeling gives Sam the list of names--that is the perfect tribute.

Part of me wishes Janet was on screen more, but the other part understands thematically why they didn't feature her. In combat, death is unexpected and no one has a chance to prepare. The airman wanted to say goodbye to his wife, but in reality, people don't get that chance--just like Janet didn't get a chance to say goodbye to Cassie.

On the film crew. I like how the staff finally came to understand the importance of the film. General Hammond is right--all those men and women who died deserve to be remembered and deserve to be remembered for fighting against the forces of the goa'uld. By having the film and memorializing Janet's death, the families of those who died in the SGC will have something to help them understand.

However, for all the beautiful moments, the whole "it's Jack" thing and the lack of action took this episode down quite a bit for me.

Posted by: DrLangford Feb 21st 2004, 5:03 PM

I saw Heroes Part 2 last night and was shocked that they would kill off Janet. (Hadn't seen the spoilers.) She was the other good female role model on the show. Now we are back down to our token blonde. Don't get me wrong, I LIKE Sam, but 50% of the world is female and TV doesn't do a good job of showing real women very well.

I am also sorry to hear that Teryl R. did not support this move. I loved her characcter and wept for her today as well as last night. I will miss Janet something awful.

Several people have commented on the mechanics of the episode - directing and writer's tricks and so forth. My comment is as follows:

Real people die without warning. My father and my brother (at different times) died in horrible accidents. No warning. No goodbyes. No time to get used to the idea. Janet's death was exactly right on that account.

I also come out of a Critical Care background and I can tell you that the nurses and doctors NEVER get the credit they deserve, so that part was right, too.

I just wish I wasn't left with a lingering feeling that the writers decided to pretend Jack was dead, then substitute someone else at the last minute and looked around for a likely candidate. Too cold blooded for me.

Posted by: blackholemalpII Feb 21st 2004, 5:49 PM

First, let me say it's a real bummer that some fans are a week ahead of us in getting to see these eps, but I guess there are parts of the world that are a year behind us, so I count my blessings.

Posted by: That Chevron Guy Feb 21st 2004, 6:53 PM

Well, i thought it was a good episode. Glad to see Chevron Guy got more than usual air time

The battle scenes i thought were nicely done. Tho it is a shame we didnt see Cassie.

Posted by: ThreeFriesShortOfAHappyMealWacko Feb 21st 2004, 11:02 PM

To Tell you the truth, I think Fraiser should've ascended. By Skarra, not Oma.

Posted by: seymour Feb 22nd 2004, 1:31 AM

I'm beginning to think that the Chevron Guy got more lines in Heroes Parts 1 & 2 than O'Neill did! Let's think about giving him a starring role before the title.

I'm a huge O'Neill/RDA fan but I'm really feeling cheated especially when many of his very few scenes are devoid of dialogue (including the deleted scene shot at O'Neill house).

Now if everyone is saying (AT and MS included) that this is the very best SG-1 episode(s) and there is little or no RDA.................well you decide.

Guess I'm tired of the breadcrumbs..................

Also tired of the false advertising...the guy with this name before the name of the show should at least show up in the program...AT and MA and the guy who played Emmet Bregmann carried these two episodes.

Re Season 8, Please producers be honest. Lose the "Starring RDA" and just say "Ocassional, Fleeting Guest Appearance by RDA) whenever he turns up for work. AT and MS can fight over which one of them gets top billing.

Posted by: Rudy4Pez Feb 22nd 2004, 6:20 AM

I'm still trying to figure out which line was more "tear-jerking". The end of Meridian when Janet helplessly says "Colonel?" or the yelp when she gets shot on the video. It's subtle, yet heavy stuff.

Posted by: dorien Feb 22nd 2004, 10:34 AM

How didn't I like this episode? Let me count the ways.

1- Dr Fraiser DID NOT have to die. Especially not in a transitional episode that was about setting up plot points for the remaining eps of this season and the changes coming in season 8.

2- This season the writers have been really challenged to work around RDA's reduced schedule. But this "lack of Jack" materially hurt this episode. SG-1 lost in combat a de facto team member and close friend. As team leader Jack should have been there to help the rest deal with this. Instead of team dynamics at work we saw individual pain and suffering. Sam touched base with nearly everyone but Daniel was isolated. Even worse, Janet died but in his absence Jack was the center of attention. After all that Teryl Rothery has contributed over the years, it's as though the show was telling her "don't let the door hit you on your way out".

3- Sam said "training, skill and fortitude" is what got the SG teams back through the gate. Woolsey said "luck". I agree with Woolsey. Luck in the form of jaffa who didn't know how to properly execute an ambush. They had air superiority. It should have been carnage with devastatingly high casualities (which would have better justified the Kinsey/Woolsey investigation). Just what was the alkesh bomber bombing anyway? It laid down lines of explosions so far from the action as to be totally meaningless.

4- SG-13...P3X-666...did a couple of *snickerwinknudge* juveniles join the writing staff? I enjoy the shows off-the-cuff moments of throw away humor but this had me thinking "oh grow up already".

5- The reading of the names of all those that Fraiser had saved was a fitting tribute but then it blended into that schmaltzy documentary with pictures of SG teams imposed over a waving flag with the "stirring" voice over narration. My eyes rolled so hard on that one that it was painful. Save me from cliche flavored cheese. And for a show that has a character that openly derides cliches, baby Janet was the biggest cliche of all.

Daniel's words best describe this episode..."Nothing about it was right."

Posted by: Firefly Feb 22nd 2004, 12:17 PM

I thought this was the best episode of season 7 so far. The only missing was Cassandra at the memorial service, or someone going to talk to her.

Posted by: seymour Feb 22nd 2004, 1:06 PM

Posted by: Lit Gal Feb 22nd 2004, 1:08 PM

I think this had the chance to be the best ep of the season, but it didn't reach that by a long shot. Several episodes have been stronger, and for all the wonderful moments (and there were many), the lack of Jack really hurt. Dorien is right, as team leader Jack would have been the one the others turned to. But instead, he is totally missing. The Sam scene was nice, but I expected scenes with Daniel and Teal'c too. After all, Jack is the leader/father figure of the team, and his absence didn't seem right--and the whole "Jack's dead" misdirection just emphasized the awkwardness of his absence.

Posted by: seymour Feb 22nd 2004, 1:41 PM

I think I'm getting so cynical about the Jacklessness of Season 7, that I'm even wondering if we are looking at the back of Siler's head (RDA's double) during the Carter/O'Neill hug scene. The camera is focused entirely on AT's face and the back of someone else's head. A good way to shoot the scene if RDA wasn't actually on the set.

The quality of the stories/scripts/interaction is really suffering due to the reduced committant of the series' former star.

BTW, I loved the Frasier character and do think that killing off an excellent supporting character like this (however it emphasies the horror and randomness of killing in battle) will only further dilute the "character" of Stargate SG-1.

Time for the series to end. I'm having trouble understanding why RDA has signed up for S8 (reportedly with a further reduction in his committent beyond that of S7). It would have had far more drammatic value to have killed off the O'Neill character in Heroes 2 and use the few remaining episodes to conclude the series. A dead O'Neill would really require no further explanation about why he's not in any episodes!

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 22nd 2004, 2:47 PM

Posted by: dorien Feb 22nd 2004, 7:28 PM

Posted by: seymour Feb 23rd 2004, 1:46 AM

Posted by: WMCoolmon Feb 23rd 2004, 3:04 AM

Seymour, geez. Did you NOT read the spoiler rules of the forums?

I gotta say this wasn't that great an episode. The first part was funny, but it didn't work well to get rid of Fraiser. To start off, the whole episode we're led to believe Jack is the one who's dead. We don't even get to see his reaction. Plus, the whole deal with everyone liking the journalist didn't make much sense to me. Maybe if he'd really *done* something instead of capitalized on an opportunity to make a video that was emotionally touching.

Also, maybe I misunderstood this part, but didn't he make this whole speech about turning on and off the cameras he said, saying that he wanted to film people whether they liked it or not, that he served the people? That seems pretty calloused considering Sam had just walked by, crying her eyes out.

Finally, the tape. P3X-666? What the hell were they thinking? I can suspend my realism only to a certain level.

Good parts...the battle was nice, although it seemed a bit jerky. I figured they just lowered the FPS so they could fit in all the SFX...which was alright. The big explosions left by the Alkesh were great, but as was mentioned before, the pilot seemed a bit out of it. Perhaps there were some Stinger-toting groundhogs hiding in the soil.

The part with Daniel and the reporter. It definitely seemed too contrived, but it was still very touching. It also seemed very in-character for Daniel to do something like that. I would not want to be in his shoes. I can see him asking himself if he'd have been able to save Dr. Fraiser if he hadn't brought out the camera.

Which makes me wonder, why didn't the Jaffa shoot Daniel, or finish off the wounded SG soldier?

Finally, what I really don't like is the whole sequence with SG-1 going past the film crew to the gate. Daniel and Sam blame themselves (Although I didn't get how the team being on the planet had anything to do with an aerial survey) and then Col. O'Neill says, "None of that matters now." It just seems forced, and too...sappy, especially considering only one soldier had been hit at the time. SG-1 has always struck me as more professional than that.

Post-finally: I really wish a reason had been given for Daniel going, though. All he was carrying was presumeably his Beretta, and is an archaeologist. It doesn't make sense to send him on a rescue mission in this case. It would've taken just 30 seconds to answer that question.

Overall grade...6/10.

An interesting parallel I noticed: Sam breaking cover to come to O'Neill's aid. The last time I think this happened was in the Nox, when she was actually killed. Hmmm...*Cue shipper theme*

Posted by: Heru'ur Feb 23rd 2004, 12:43 PM

I was not real impressed with this episode. It could have been a lot better. Dr Frasier should not have died in this episode. They should have saved that for the final episodes in season 8.

O'neill should have had a more defining role in this episode as well. Although he was in a badly injured, there still should have been some scenes with him in it giving encouragement to his team in this dark hour.

Doesn't that anti staff weapon armor work? Sargeant Siler got shot point blank and he was fine. Dr Frasier get shot from like 50+ feet away, and she dies? That just does not make any sense. If it is that ineffective, then it should be made thicker.

Part 1 was better because it was a funny episode, and did not have any death in it.

Posted by: seymour Feb 23rd 2004, 12:53 PM

apologies to all who got spoiled...............my fault entirely......thanks to whoever edited my big mouth

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 23rd 2004, 3:06 PM

Posted by: SG-15 Feb 23rd 2004, 5:12 PM

I liked the episode. And the way they threw in Fraiser dying when I thought Jack was the one who dies (even though I know he survives). Looks like they got back their suspence.

Posted by: colonyearth Feb 23rd 2004, 5:56 PM

I agree, I thought the episode (both parts) were masterfully woven to build to what happened. Fraiser's death was as it is...quick. You hear soldiers always saying "it all happened so fast." That's the way it is...and I for one thought it was genius to kill the character the way they did. We saw the impact of her death instead some cliched "dramatic, gasping my last breath, scene."

I'm still behind the creative team here, they've had a lot of changes to deal with and new pressures, but they're talented and care.

The reason we saw all of this mainly through Sam's eyes was again, genius. Who was closest to Frasier? Sam! Then Daniel, who was also there as she died. This was a powerful episode and if you weren't moved...watch it again. They made such powerful statements (as this writing team is known to do so subtly) about current affairs. The monoloque by the Doc director was saying something about secrets (while not slamming the premise of the show), and then we praise those who risk their lives because that's their duty.

Read between the lines...and watch it again. My hat's off to Ron Cooper/Andy Mikita/ and what is in my opinion the best SF cast on TV! Let's not be fair weather fans here. Have faith...

for as another great SF writer once wrote, "Faith Manages."

CE

Posted by: Dr.DarienHawk Feb 23rd 2004, 6:55 PM

I was sort of disappointed, but if I hadnt been hanging around here It prolly woulda been better But I thought it was kinda jumpy in perspectives of Doc's death. The whole perspective through the eyes of the news crew completely threw me off, but thats just for my case... I thought the eyes of the camera capturing her death was great though, focused on her, but there wasnt enough of her, you know?. Propz to MS and AT for the mourning scenes, Daniel and Sam's emotions really hit me.

But overall the way it happened... I blame it on the reporter guy

The ending, I thought they should have thrown in the (cliche like) video of Frasier and her last oppinions of the SGC's work... and Cassie.

Posted by: Spence Feb 23rd 2004, 7:48 PM

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Feb 23rd 2004, 10:59 PM

Posted by: Chirp Feb 23rd 2004, 11:33 PM

Hi folks, I've read a few of the posts. One( in my opinion) said it was the worst that he has seen, that person is sick. This is not about who is right or wrong, people die in wars. Just because you are a reporter, nurse, peace core, or a Dr. dead is dead. This one made me cry so much, the emotions are so deep. If I had not read the spoillers I would have thought O'Neill died. Janet will be missed alot.
I do think that Cassy should have been in this episode, but maybe she was need else where. Maybe the way Janet got hit that the shield did not work. O'Neill was hit stright on, and bigger. I'm glad that Daniel was with her.

Posted by: sidewinder Feb 24th 2004, 4:17 PM

Not that anyone cares anymore, considering that the new episode (719) has already aired in more privaleged parts of the world, but I'm going to address one more problem that I read in these posts:
Various people have posted that it would be "stupid" to think that the writers could kill of Jack because he's the main character. well, guess what, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. Remember a little, underground show called the X-Files? Not that im a huge fan of the series or anything, but Mulder was killed (well, not really, but he was GONE) for a long ass time. The show did splendidly without him. Could he be considered the equivalent of Jack? I think so. And I dont even think they wrote him out because of scheduling conflicts. Those writers chose to do that to further the story, a noble purpose indeed.
I dont care anymore. I have way too much free time at work. The fact that i'm even posting this means the writers should write me out of the episodes.

Posted by: colonyearth Feb 24th 2004, 4:58 PM

Posted by: sidewinder Feb 24th 2004, 6:08 PM

*shaking fist in the air*
Damn you colon - y - earth. I'll get you.

Actually, like i said, not a huge fan of the X-Files, and im happy for once to hear someone disagree based on fact rather than opinion.
Oh, and as far as who I am, well: remember that one guy, in that one episode, that did that thing with the gun? yeah...that's not me. Im the guy next to him. that's why the writers are going to write me out. sucks, doesn't it.

I dont know if i would like to live in an earth that's colon-y. would probably smell.

**If you like what youv'e read, invite you to read the posts i will inevitably be making in the 719 discussion

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Feb 24th 2004, 10:09 PM

Posted by: dorien Feb 24th 2004, 10:47 PM

Posted by: Sam's Sister Feb 24th 2004, 11:53 PM

Posted by: jetsetter Feb 25th 2004, 12:11 AM

What did you guys and gals think of the large battle scene? I think it was one of the best so far. It really felt like a battle and I hope there are more.

Posted by: PinkPeril Feb 25th 2004, 9:08 AM

Posted by: colonyearth Feb 25th 2004, 1:10 PM

I'm on board with you, Peril! We needed to see some new change and growth in the characters, and I think that's been part of the mission this season. That's why we've spent so much time on individuals and two-on-two situations.

Good call!

Posted by: colonyearth Feb 25th 2004, 1:25 PM

Posted by: sidewinder Feb 25th 2004, 3:40 PM

719 = season 7, ep. 19. Im on the last page of discussion.
and you have have to admit...having colon in YOUR nick is more than coincidence.

Posted by: colonyearth Feb 25th 2004, 5:05 PM

Not more than coincidence but definately fitting...

And I will only go over there if there are NO SPOILERS! I accidentally found out Frasier was the one who died before the ep aired here and I have to admit I would've preferred having not known.

That said, Sidewinder, I want to read your posts, but only if they aren't gonna give the ending up, so to speak. SG airs in Memphis on Friday nights (as it does, well, everywhere in the US I guess, since it airs on Sci-Fi here and so, I'm gonna be quiet now.)

Posted by: Annunaki Feb 25th 2004, 5:26 PM

And I will only go over there if there are NO SPOILERS! I accidentally found out Frasier was the one who died before the ep aired here and I have to admit I would've preferred having not known.

So would I since most of the episode was surrounded around the confusion on who actually died.

Posted by: Serpent Guard Feb 25th 2004, 9:30 PM

It was one of the better epidsodes in Season 7. Having watching the teaser commercials I REALLY thought this was how they would decide to have Col. O'Neill (Richard Dean Anderson) retire. I was just thinking OMG...this is it...he's dead and that's it...but it turned out to be Janet...which is also a bad thing...she's like part of SG1... We won't ever see her again...I guess the term "died in the line of duty" applies here...It just...how even though it's not in real life, it seem as if we have lost someone that meant a lot!!! So realistic...made me feel like it was a real event.

Yes; the battle scene was spectacular, with all the alkesh bombers and jaffa. And a great combination of weapons for us. I haven't seen them use a grenade launcher for a long time. A little humor there was when Col. O'Neill said "I thought you said 6 Jaffa!!!" that was funny...at least to me.

The documentary that they made and showed Gen. Hammond was tremendous...wish I got to see the whole thing!!!

Posted by: muldersgun Feb 26th 2004, 4:23 AM

okay....FECK!!!! that has got to be the most emotionally raw episode of SG ever, in the entire history of the show.

and me being an absent minded fool watched it at 1am in the morning and couldn't get to sleep cause i was just too depressed. If i wasn't forewarned about Frasier's death i would've been inconsolible for at least 2 weeks.

But damn it was a fricking good episode. Shanks, Tapping, Judge, Saul....damn everyone was so good. The guy who played Wells was awesome. I loved how Saul's story about the war photographer tied with the story in the ep. I mean there just too many aspects of the ep i loved.

Although saying what i've said, i still have a couple of points that i thought were irkworthy.

* no death speech from Frasier - I know it was filmed simply from what i've heard from Teryl in interviews and such, it just seemed a tad weird just to have Frasier shot and then not have her say anything. I mean Daniel got a death speech in meridian why not Janet? I know Andy Mikita was prolly trying for a "Remembrance by proxy" thing but a death speech is a classic part of drama in whatever form.

* heroes pt I just seemed a throwaway ep, i wouldv'e liked it a load more if they split heroes pt II into 2 separate eps. There was too much going on in pt II and stuff that could've worked much better if given more time.

Oh yeah Brad, Can we please please, pretty please have Adam Baldwin on Atlantis?

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 26th 2004, 8:39 AM

Posted by: Majikthize Feb 26th 2004, 2:40 PM

Posted by: seymour Feb 26th 2004, 5:08 PM

Having watched both Heroes 1 & 2 for second time, I found them both excellent, much better than the first time around (anyone else have the same experience?) BUT,

the big battle scene in Heroes 2 did raise some questions in my mind.

1. Why did O'Neill break his "rock cover" to try and hit the Jaffa in the bushes? Given that he did break cover, where was the usual "Cover me!" yell to his comrade in arms? The Colonel of SG13 was right next to O'Neill before O'Neill moved.

2. After O'Neill was hit, it was Carter (albeit a bunch of rocks away) and not the Colonel of SG-13 (who was right next to O'Neill) who ran to O'Neill's aid. Carter ran, almost standing straight up and then turned her back to the enemy fully exposing herself to fire at all times. Is this the difference between a Colonel and a Major? The Colonel (of SG13) stands fighting and holding the line and the Major breaks the line exposing herself to fire. Also, she didn't even try to pull O'Neill back behind a rock.

Are the writers writing her character as someone fit to lead the SG-1 in the future or as someone who, as in Chimera, put her emotions before the mission and have a different future in mind for her? I'm not doubting her courage just her "command worthiness." In Orpheus (704), Neill put aside his emotions and left Teal'c to suffer torture for a night until he could make a strategically sound (and ultimately successfull) decision about the mission.

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 26th 2004, 8:12 PM

Posted by: sg1JaffaJoo Feb 26th 2004, 9:30 PM

Compared to the other season 7 episodes, this was well written. When I saw the commercial for Heroes Part 2 I thought for sure Jack was going to die. Then after thinking about it I realized that if he was really going to die, they wouldn't have put it in the teaser. Everyone would know he was going to die! I hope that makes sense.. lol

I didn't think they did a very good job of hiding who died. There should have been less run-around and more dealing with who actually did die. I thought we should have seen more of how Jack survived the blast from the staff weapon. Doc Fraiser wasn't there to fix him up, so who did? And how come Jack and Simon lived and Janet didn't? It looked to me like they were all shot by staff weapons in the upper body. So what's the difference?

I thought it was really neat that Simon (the guy that Janet was trying to save, i think) named his daughter after Janet :-)

I thought overall it was a very good episode. I was on the edge of my seat waiting to find out who died. When i saw Jack on the hospital bed pulled his shirt down I jumped up and went WOOHOO!! I don't know why, but i was happy he wasn't dead. I'm still sorry we have to lose Frasier, though. Did Teryl Rothery decide to leave the show? That's the only explanation i can think of for them killing her off.

Posted by: dorien Feb 27th 2004, 2:06 PM

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 27th 2004, 2:40 PM

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Feb 27th 2004, 8:42 PM

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 27th 2004, 8:53 PM

Posted by: seymour Feb 27th 2004, 9:17 PM

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Feb 27th 2004, 9:28 PM

On a different point - was it my imagination, or did General Hammond seem a little more upset about Janet than one might expect? (Of course, I know Hammond wears a wedding ring, but for some reason I thought he was a widower.) Hammond and Janet always seemed to have a nice chemistry. (For cryin' out loud, maybe I've been seeing ship everywhere from everyone.)

Actually, I really hate that Janet is gone. She was a great character. I think that she could have been used to help make up for the lack of air time for O'Neill.

Posted by: dorien Feb 28th 2004, 8:29 PM

Posted by: Scotsman Feb 29th 2004, 9:17 PM

OK? Am I the only person that realizes that the writers screwed up! Janet Frasier cannot be dead! If she was dead then how could she have uncovered the Aschen Plot to sterilize the Earth and grab all of its resources (Season 4, Episode 16, 2010)?

Posted by: dorien Feb 29th 2004, 9:34 PM

Because when SG-1 succeeded in sending a note to themselves in the past, they changed the future. The Aschen never became Earth's ally (in the episode 2001) and didn't wipe out the goa'uld. By helping change the past, Janet inadvertently was responsible for her early death. Fork in the road stuff.

Posted by: seymour Mar 1st 2004, 2:03 AM

For those who like Fan Fic, I read a neat, very short story about the consequences of Carter abandoning her post during the battle to tend to O'Neill (nope I didn't write this nor anyother FanFic). It's called the Blue Feather
at http://www.gateworld.net/fanfic/archive/13/theblue.html
orhttp://www.sg1-heliopolis.com/archive/37/theblue.html

Posted by: J'Oneill2u Mar 1st 2004, 11:43 PM

I don't consider Carter to have "abandoned her post." I'm not military but it seems to me that a battlefield situation is fluid in nature, so unless someone asked her to watch his or her six, she was free to run over and help an injured person. (Although we all know that he is more than just a fellow soldier.) Look at some of the other episodes demonstrating one person assisting another in the middle of a firefight. Perfect example - during a battle, Jolinar jumped into Carter while she was giving mouth-to-mouth to Jolinar's host.

Regarding another point, I'm not convinced that when Carter cussed out the reporter as she walked through the SGC that it was Janet that she was upset about. Granted they were good friends, but I thought it interesting that when Jack asked if she was speaking at the memorial service, she said yes but sort of cut him off to tell about her relief that he had not died. At least in that moment, a living Jack took priority over a deceased friend.

Posted by: colonyearth Mar 2nd 2004, 1:33 PM

Posted by: dorien Mar 2nd 2004, 8:36 PM

Posted by: Cuokuo Mar 3rd 2004, 4:31 AM

I dunno if this has been brought up b4 but theres so much i cant be bothered reading it all. Did Janet die because the producers didnt like her anymore or did she want to leave herself or did the writers think it was time for someone to die to make the show more realistic??

Posted by: colonyearth Mar 4th 2004, 5:18 PM

Posted by: Sam's Sister Mar 6th 2004, 4:29 AM

I am of the opinion that when Sam blew up at Bregman, she had just gotten free from her duties and was rushing away to be alone to deal with the death of Janet. (We have seen her do that in previous episodes -- she holds it together in the field and emotes privately, usually in the locker room). I have a feeling that she would have been able to tell immediately that Jack was not in immediate danger right there in the field -- he was knocked out but would have a pulse. So she would not have been that upset if it was just Jack being injured. Of course, the viewer was supposed to think that she was upset over Jack since all the ads were making it look like it was him getting killed. We'd have to all be living on Mars not to know that Jack couldn't get killed. If they want to play that game, they can't go announcing season 8 before season 7 is over. We might have believed it if it was the last episode of the season and/or we didn't know RDA would be back for another season.

As for the scene where Sam talks to Jack, I think she was struggling to control her emotions and needed to tell him how she was feeling before she lost it entirely. It was right for him to hug her under both circumstances...the loss of her best friend, and the scare of nearly losing him -- whatever he means to her. Even if there was no ship implication, they are pretty close comrades.

Finally, from all that I have heard, Teryl was in no way seeking to leave the show. It was a decision of the producers because of the Heroes theme in those episodes. They needed to kill someone we cared about, who was US military, and who wasn't one of the main stars. They could have used Hammond, but they still need him for Kinsey to kick around, apparently.


[I][/I]

Posted by: Dafmeister Mar 6th 2004, 6:40 AM

Posted by: NRJ Mar 6th 2004, 11:32 PM

Even though I read some of the spoilers, I didn't think it was going to end like that. I knew Janet was going to die. When Jack got hit, I thought he died, but I knew he would be ok at the end. I thought maybe the asgard would revive him. I was waiting for the end hoping that spoiler would be wrong and see Janet still alive.

Posted by: Bec Mar 12th 2004, 3:16 PM

OMG that episode made me cry so much!

I thought Jack was dead at first, and I was crying, then I found out it was Janet (:rip:) and I cried even more!

I didn't even know Janet was going to die as I'm pretty new to Stargate fandom, so it came as a total shock to me.


The infirmery scene at the end with Sam and Jack was so cute though!

~Bec

Posted by: colonyearth Mar 15th 2004, 2:39 PM

Posted by: dorien Mar 15th 2004, 3:32 PM

Posted by: colonyearth Mar 15th 2004, 8:27 PM

Posted by: dorien Mar 16th 2004, 9:35 PM

Posted by: gategirl Mar 16th 2004, 10:33 PM

hey dorian! thanx for all the GOOD info. i too was wondering what the "real" buzz was on T.R. leaving. it's nice when someone with the strait scoop can inform us with facts, and direct quotes rather than uninformed spectulation. (altho that too can be at least intertaining if not imformative)



so long and thanks for all the fish!!

Posted by: Colonel_O'Neill Mar 17th 2004, 3:00 AM

Well what can i say??? After seeing the teaser for the episode, i was getting anxsious to see it. First i was mad because the "battle scenes" were very badly down, no tension, and the camera couldnt focuse on a situation, another thing why did the P90 have a different sound/maybe it was just me.

When Oneil was shot i was a bit shocked but i knew he wasnt dead. When i saw Janet were indeed dead, i almost cried,great job AT, but one thing that made me completly MAD: Brat has been on the show for 7 seasons, why in hell did she only get a few minutes in this one?? Also the last speech didnt feel any good, in fact the whole episode felt like: ok shes dead now move on to the next??!?!

People come one, im not a tery fan but is this what she deserves after such a long time????? Did i like the rest of the episode, sure it was quit good, i loved the humerous scenes like when daniel are running to do something important, lol.

Posted by: Jetdeck Mar 21st 2004, 6:28 PM

I felt sorry for that Bregman guy. Even though he was annoying everyone, he was trying to do the right thing. And I really just lost it when he found out that Janet was the one who died, because he really liked her. And the way he found out just, made it worse. And when Sam was crying, because she could not write what she wanted and Teal'c came in and gave her what she needed to say, more crying again. I guess I don't even understand why Janet could not stay until Stargate went off the air?

Posted by: colonyearth Mar 22nd 2004, 2:10 PM

Posted by: DoctorMajorSam Mar 24th 2004, 11:52 PM

Ok I have one question....What the hell happened to Cassie? No one talked about it the only reference made was when Jack asked Sam if Cassie was ok and she said that Cassie was tough and that she could handle it. Well what happened to her. Did they just decide not to address that fact?

Anyone, Anyone.

Jak

Posted by: Sam's Sister Mar 25th 2004, 2:00 AM

Posted by: DoctorMajorSam Mar 26th 2004, 12:43 PM

I thought she was just 17, but I could be wrong. Any way I agree that she should have been in the episode and i am now sad that Teryl isnt going to be on anymore because I liked her character but hopefully she'll come back, cause ya know they dont ever say if they got her body back. Wouldn't it be crazy if she was taken as a host or something. That would be wild. But I hope she atleast comes back in someone's dream or subconscious or something!

Jak

Posted by: gategirl Mar 26th 2004, 5:02 PM

I am also puzzled by Cassie's "conspictuous by her absence" non role in H II. It would be pretty cool if they brought her into the Stargate program.

The whole "Death of Janet" thing just seems so uncecessary. I'm still in shock. Next season just won't be the same. I wonder who the new Doc will be. Any word on that? I agree that it didn't make much sense for her to be in the field anyway. I can't off hand think of a precidence for that on the show. Anyway..BIG bummer

Posted by: colonyearth Mar 26th 2004, 7:20 PM

Posted by: NRJ Mar 26th 2004, 11:17 PM

Even though I saw the episode when she was a teen, I don't why, but I still see cassie as this cute little girl in season 1. So when I saw this episode, I thought who's going to take care of Cassandra. (Stupid me )

I still don't know why they didn't keep the same actress to play Cassie?

Posted by: Jerrodw Mar 31st 2004, 2:11 PM

I was watching this episode on my laptop while getting ready for work. I knew Jack was too much of a main character to be killed off so easily so I was just assuming the soldier had died.

When they said it was Janet who had died I was just listening but my head snapped around and I said out loud, "What!" I had to sit down and I was glued to the screen for the rest of the episode.

I will miss Janet on the show as much as everyone, but I do hope the role in not just filled in with another character that is exactly the same such as the Jonas / Daniel stand in or a Dukes of Hazard switcher-roo. ?Ok people, we need another sexy female doctor, preferable brunette who likes Carter.?

What a shock for those of us who don't read the spoilers. I to am always wanting to know what happens next but that is why we watch every week. If I had known how the 6th sense ended that movie would have been terrible. I would love to know how Friends will end but I also enjoy talking with others about expectations of the show. Practice some self control and don't super-size it, don't read the last page of a book first, plan ahead so you don't have to overnight ship it, and wait for the whole show so you can actually enjoy it.

Posted by: Sam's Sister Apr 10th 2004, 8:55 PM

For those of you who felt let down by the ending of Heroes 2 and wanted more about SG1's grief over Janet, or Cassie's reaction, here is my own fanfiction version of how it might have been, at least for Sam and Cassie. It is intended to be in canon and is a tiny bit shippy, like the show has been lately. Hope you like it.


Attached File(s)
 After_the_Storm_Fiction ( 42k ) Number of downloads: 39

Posted by: Mac.Fan Apr 18th 2004, 4:38 AM

I was a shock to find out that Janice was the one that died Sam was up set when she found out and she went and talk to Jack. She try to tell him how she felt when he got shoot. At lest he under stands her with what she was trying to say.

Posted by: CitizenK May 8th 2004, 4:26 PM

Posted by: linda_lol May 14th 2004, 7:21 PM

I'm speechless, this is the best episode I've ever seen. Personally, I was shocked that the show would do such a thing. I just about cried my eyes out! ! I never thought that Janet would die! I mean, she is such a cute character! When I first saw a preview, I was positive that Jack was surely gone. Well, I'm grateful that his life wasn't taken but comeon! Why Janet? I was shaking head to foot when I heard the news. Well, being a judge I give this episode the full score! 10/10! Incredibly emotional, action packed, and full of little bits of confusion and mystery. I agree with you all by the way with Cassandra, I was sure that at least she would show up! I mean, comeon! Her Mother! Well, this episode is definitely worth it!

Posted by: mithwriter May 14th 2004, 9:30 PM

Yep, this one was on again tonight, so I'd thought I'd give it another try now that all the hype about it has died down and its been awhile, and here's my second round of thoughts....

Man, what a depressing episode. Seriously. I don't know if they were going for a "let's show them being brave beyond the tragedy" thing, but it was just a downer on all counts.

Another thing I noticed that I thought was odd, and let me know what you all think of this:

Sam and Jack got to console each other.
Sam and Hammond consoled each other.
Sam and Teal'c consoled each other.

See anyone missing there? Yep, poor Daniel. Of all the people who probably needed someone to talk to, he was left alone to deal with and express his hurt to a perfect stranger (Bregman). Looking and thinking back on this, it made no sense to me. I would've thought that someone from SG1 would've tracked him down to see how he was doing, but instead he was either hiding in his lab or in a darkened corner in the infirmary. I ask you, is this any way for his teammates to let him deal with his experience? At least show us Sam or Teal'c making an effort to reach out to him and maybe refusing their help, that would at least explain what happened.

I would like to think that his teammates cared enough about him to try to help, and can only imagine that perhaps such a scene was shot but left on the proverbial "cutting room floor"...or I guess in this case, a stray video file.

Posted by: dorien May 15th 2004, 8:34 PM

Every time SG-1 steps through the gate, they know that their lives depend on each other. But look what happened on this mission. Daniel was left to protect Dr Frasier and she was killed. Why? Because he wasn't doing his job. Instead of having his eyes up and watching the area, he was acting the part of a medic (just where was Dr Frasier's medical team anyway ?) and fiddling with a camera. If he hadn't been looking down, he would have seen the jaffa that fired the fatal shot. And while the whole scene was contrived to capture Dr Frasier's death on film, it also made Daniel's actions culpable. Which might have been used to explain his withdrawal from his teammates (he let them down) or their reserve towards him (he let them down). But there is never a hint about a loss of trust in subsequent episodes so that's not the reason. It would, however, have made for an interesting rest of the season if it had gone that way. How does the team become a team again?

I think Daniel was left solo on this one because of a weak script that spent too much time on misdirection.

Posted by: DR Larry Murphy May 18th 2004, 3:17 PM

There was a point during the past two years that SG1 was getting stale for me I loved season 6 even though jonas was a bit dull but season 7 came and episodes were good or boring then came these episodes which were amazing the ending was brilliant and restored my faith in a brilliant tv show.

Posted by: dmacleod66 May 18th 2004, 9:59 PM

this probably don't belong here but i'll post it anyway

i was thinking maybe why they killed janet off is so cassie will be living with sam now.
and either they would want that so somewhere in season 8 they will have a little girl talk about pete and jack and who sam really wants to be with or so we can see sam taking on a motherly role for cassie.

Posted by: LinkDarkJM Jul 1st 2004, 3:25 PM

Maybe cassie will replace fraiser..? there are many different reasons why they killed her im sure we will find out next season

Posted by: Too Fun! Jul 5th 2004, 10:45 AM

This was so sad. I don't read the spoilers so I had no idea that Janet would be the one that died. Sams eugloy was wonderful, listing those who had lived because of the doctor.
I thot they were a bit cruel to leave Daniel to himself and not have anyone to talk to (Sam talked to Jack and T and General Hammond).
LOL I did like how Daniel told off the nasty NID guy

Posted by: Lit Gal Jul 10th 2004, 1:54 PM

This wasn't my favorite ep, but I can see why they did it. I mean, SG1 does all this stuff and never dies (or rather never stays dead) which makes it a little cartoonish. By having a major character die, they put a human face on the danger. I just wish it wasn't Frasier.

I do want to make a couple of comments. Daniel WASN'T covering Janet. He didn't even have his gun up because he was assisting her with first aid. The soldier who WAS covering them can be heard over the radio. And Daniel had probably rejected the comforting of his teammates. It's not entirely un-Danielish to hide from pain or grief. In Serpent's Lair he sat away from the team in the cell and in both Secrets and Forever in a Day he wanted to mourn alone. Some people deal with pain privately, so his being alone simply shows that his team members know his need for privacy.

And Cassie probably isn't living with Janet because she must be nearly 18 by now. She's probably getting ready for college.

Posted by: Sam's Sister Jul 17th 2004, 7:19 PM

Odd that I didn't get that take on "poor Daniel." I accepted that he was grieving privately in his own way. But frankly, I don't think they did enough with the grieving anyway. It's just "on to the next adventure" in the next episode. I know they are all trained professionals, but still. I believe I've posted about this before, but hopefully it bears repeating. And I was disappointed that they didn't at least explain where Cassie was, which is why I wrote my little episode tag. Since they don't seem to be mentioning her in the rest of the season, I presume that she is away at college and doesn't need Sam's guardianship (assuming she was the guardian).

Posted by: Amaurifraisergater Jul 21st 2004, 8:37 AM

i frankly cannot believe how terrible the producers were about this! i mean, for heavens sake, she was a doctor:more than that, she was a mother. ok, so Cassie still has Sam and Jack and all, but Janet was the one with whom she was living, doesnt that mean something? And i kinda noticed that nobody seemed really to care that she was dead, apart from that scene with Teal'c and Sam and Jack and Sam. they treated her as though she was an overly minor character! she has been in all these episodes and then-bam-they just cut her out? Just like that? Urrggg! sorry guys. i guess i'm just taking this kinda hard-sniffle- forgive my emotional outburst, but i meant what i said. is anybody else feeling like this?

Posted by: Timerider3 Aug 9th 2004, 9:50 PM

I cried the night I saw it and I NEVER cry. lol.

Posted by: Teags Oct 2nd 2004, 12:36 PM

First of all, let me paint you a picture so you know where i'm coming from. I haven't read any of the spoilers and had absolutely no idea that Teryl had been written out of the show! Then, i only saw the very end of part 1 of this ep where Janet was flirting with that doco guy... so this came as a big shock!!

Having said that this whole ep, had me on the edge of my seat... The suspense was killing me! Although i felt it did drag on a tiny bit... mainly cause i'd worked out it was Janet who'd died. The emotion portrayed by Sam, Daniel, Teal'c (surprisingly) and even General Hammond was heart wrenching. It was a beautiful, touching episode.

Looking back, and after reading all of your comments... i think a lot you are being to critical! You have to try and put yourself in the mindset of the director (and/or writers). At the time of this, remember that when they wrote it, it was going to be one of the last episodes ever. The eighth series hadn't yet been agreed upon. Therefore, it would have likely been decided that, to keep people interested in the show and have them watch until the very last ep they'd have to try and keep it real. That would've been why they killed off Janet, to show that the characters arent invincable and that other could still die by the end of the series. And I mean, could you imagine if they'd killed off one of SG1; no one would have kept watching! Especially if it was O'Neill.

As for the action scene not being effective enough; i think that was the whole point. this episode wasn't intended to be action packed, it was intended to show the emotions of the characters after they'd just lost one of their closest friends.
Then theres the whole Daniel doesn't appear emotional enough. I completely disagree! That scene with him in the infirmary shows him at his most emotional and most vunerable; his body language shows that he has pulled away from everyone and is grieving in his own way.
And FINALLY. Janet fans are winging because they're claiming that she didnt get a good enough send of and she should have been in it more. However, i personally think that the short scene that shows her getting killed, shows her at her finest! She is willing to risk her own life for someone elses; and she did her job and ended up saving a mans life, which couldnt have been a better send off for her! The memorial service also showed how much she influenced the SGC and each persons life individually. To say that you owe your life to someone is a better gift then any amount of words can describe!!

Some other points i have are that:- Cassie should've been in it; the shippy moments between Sam and Jack, and Daniels affection for Janet was beautiful; and Teal'c has finally come out of his shell a bit more- he showed physical effection towards Sam when she needed a friend which was sweet.

Posted by: wonderland Oct 2nd 2004, 2:21 PM

Posted by: IndyJan Oct 2nd 2004, 6:32 PM

The one moment that I truly liked and made me cry was Sam's eulogy for Janet. When she began listing all the names of people that WOULD NOT be alive if not for Janet Frasier, I lost it totally. That was a perfect eulogy for this very special lady.

I also felt the fact that Jack decided to be part of the documentary at the end was very telling. It showed Jack's respect and caring for Fraiser. Jack had no time for that documentary, but after Janet's death, he did this for and because of her death.

Posted by: Christy Oct 5th 2004, 9:20 PM

I still cry at the thought of her not returning and i don't want to watch SG-1 anymore.
I really liked her and i don't like the doctors that keep coming in and treating everyone.
They just seem really plain in comparison.

Posted by: IndyJan Oct 5th 2004, 11:16 PM

Posted by: Christy Oct 5th 2004, 11:42 PM

i still don't know how she died.

Posted by: Ceberus Oct 6th 2004, 4:43 AM

She recieved a staff wound to her neck.

This episode was Aired last week in Australia and I was very worried when sam ran in that O'Niell had died. Iwas however relieved that it was only Dr. Fraser. I never realy did find the importance of her as a main role because i find her side of the SGC to be quite dull. My dad was mortified as she is his favourite character, after T, and he could not believe that "stargate would axe a brilliant actress" (my dad's words).

Just to mention that the Euology (sp?) was Teal'c's idea and not Sams and that the reason no one, as far as we know, went and talked with Daniel about his emotions is because their was not enough time to have the extra footage in the episode as it was packed with other scenes.

Personally i loved the fact that we got to learn more about SG-13 in these two episodes and I believe if more episodes are this emotive in nature stargate sg-1 will be a better show.

my two cents worth

Ceberus

Posted by: LuvThatShanks Oct 25th 2004, 3:45 PM

A strange comment to start with - if you are lucky enough to score Adam Baldwin in a guest starring role use the heck out of him! In a way Heroes 1. did and as usual Baldwin brought it. SG13 seemed like a team from their first moments together mainly due to the greatness of the Baldwin (unrelated to any of the Baldwin brothers).

I can never watch this episode without letting out a gasp when the footage of Janet being shot is shown. The actor playing Emmet reacted perfectly to that moment and I was glad to see that another guest starring actor I love in other work did such a good job.

Amanda Tapping sobbing as she walked down the hall and ordering the film crew away from her was Tapping at her finest. One of Sam's closest friends has died and Jack gets that. Great moments there.

Daniel's isolation is sort of fitting actually not only with his character in the past but with the moment. He's helping Janet (there is another guard there), he's trying to comfort the solidier. I thought it was wonderfully appropriate that Daniel of all people would be the one to try and record what seemed to be a dying man's last message to his wife.

Then Janet gets hit and I nearly richochet off the couch each time. It's so brutal and sudden. It might be hackneyed to have Daniel screaming for a medic but the way he sounded as he screamed was incredible. Michael Shanks was allowed to emote in that moment more than he did in almost any other for the episode.

So I still *sniff* when Janet dies. I wish they hadn't killed off a longtime character but it did illustrate the dangers of the gate and something that is usually passed over - Janet's bravery and conviction as she tries to calm the wounded soldier.

I loved both pts. 1 and 2 because Janet's death was a huge shock to me the first time. I watched it on DVD and found "Wow, that moment still is shocking and horrifying."

The team did great work in this episode but I personally thought the shot of Daniel making the Teddy Bear wave was just about the cutest thing they've ever shown on this series.

Oh and I still miss Janet.

Posted by: scjon Oct 25th 2004, 6:05 PM

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 26th 2004, 1:22 PM

Posted by: Evo Nov 17th 2004, 8:49 AM

I just finished the two episodes and it was good. It was sad when Janet died.. The reporter was annoying to me, he would do anything just to get a piece of info on an unscheduled wormhole or anything like that. Well, at least we finally see something going on with Janet, but it was too bad that she had to die. I wonder if she will return in any future episodes.

Again, why are the writters trying to kill off some of the actors..

Posted by: Krystian SG1 Nov 17th 2004, 9:53 PM

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 22nd 2004, 1:35 PM

I started thinking about this episode again and yeah, I still think this was an awful episode. But, I posted most of my thoughts in an earlier rant.

The thing that I'd like to discuss now is the consequences of Dr Fraiser's death. At the end of the episode, we see Sam conducting a memorial service for her friend. arguably, her best friend.

Well, that's all we see. Later on, as the season progresses, we never see Sam grieving for her friend. Actually, we never see anyone on the team grieving for her. Yeah, okay... they are soldiers and they know that they could die in battle.

But, soldiers still grieve and mourn for their friends. Some do it for years after that Person's death. Why is it that after this episode, we never hear Sam talk about Janet ?

And what about Cassandra ? Wouldn't Sam want to comfort her in her hour of need ?
Nothing about Cassandra either.

Yeah, I really do believe the writers seriously dropped the ball on this two parter. Yes, Dr Fraiser's death was tragic and needless. But, you'd think the writers could have handled it better.

People grieve at the loss of loved ones. Why didn't we ever see that ?

Once this episode was over... nothing... not so much as a peep about Fraiser. It's as if she never existed. And that is such a travesty.

okay, ranting over.

Posted by: Janos Nov 22nd 2004, 2:45 PM

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 22nd 2004, 3:10 PM

Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 22nd 2004, 8:34 PM

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 22nd 2004, 9:21 PM

Posted by: wonderland Nov 22nd 2004, 9:43 PM

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 23rd 2004, 8:31 AM

Posted by: wonderland Nov 24th 2004, 8:40 PM

Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 24th 2004, 9:30 PM

Posted by: IndyJan Nov 25th 2004, 2:33 AM

CitizenK and Wonderland, I totally agree with your assessment of the death of Janet. I remember at the time asking "where was Cassandra?" At the very least, she should have been mentined, she was not.

Janet had a profound effect on everyone at SGC, yet her death was not and has not been discussed since her memorial. While I appreciated how they handled her memorial, Sam reading the names of the people that are alive because of Janet Frasier, I'm upset that they didn't have the team deal with her death.

They had Daniel check out the man that Janet saved, and meet his newborn child. WOW, the baby girl was named janet, that was all. Why didn't Daniel feel something more about Janet's death?

It was as if they expended all their emotions for Janet's death during Heroes Part 2, and that was it. They weren't allowed to have anymore.

Janet's death has left a huge whole in SGC. The doctor they have replacing her has no personality, nothing. I cannot even remember her name.

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 26th 2004, 2:42 PM

Posted by: Pitry Nov 27th 2004, 7:36 AM

What bothered me most of all wasn't Heroes, it was the complete lack of mentioning Janet after Heroes. As if she never existed... The writers did a very good call on season 6 and mentioned Daniel a lot - also dealt with his death after Meridian and Revelations, like in Redemption, Descent and Shadow Play, the bit in the beginning... but Janet is never mentioned again.

With Heroes itself I don't have a problem - they do show the team's reaction ( especially Daniel) and considering the time limit I thought they did it quite effectively.

As for Daniel's attitude about death- I'm not so sure. You'd think someone who died so many times - including ascending - would develop quite a unique look about death. We don't know what it is because they don't discuss it...

Posted by: dorien Nov 27th 2004, 1:07 PM

Janet was an underused character. We only saw her work as it related directly to SG-1. The memorial service highlighted this with the reading of the names of all those she had saved. Beyond the members of SG-1, the list became meaningless. Hence the fade away at that point.

A more fitting tribute to the character would have been an occasional reference to her since then. An acknowledgement that she's missed. Something. As it is...nothing. Like Pitry said, "As if she never existed."

The show has never dealt well with the consequences of what the characters experience. But the writers really botched this one on so many levels. And there's no excuse for it since they dealt with Daniel?s death/ascension so much better.

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 27th 2004, 4:59 PM

Posted by: Christy Nov 27th 2004, 8:35 PM

I just watched the 2nd part of heroes.
They put so much suspense...like she hadnt been hurt, they made you believe it was O'neil which had been badly hurt and then you see them watching the tape, Fraiser being shot...and then he checks the report and goes 'she didn't make it'
That totally sucked.
I was not happy at all.

Posted by: dorien Nov 28th 2004, 12:31 PM

Posted by: IndyJan Nov 28th 2004, 10:49 PM

As others have stated, Jack has dealt with Charlie's death in a few episodes. Even Daniel touched on Sha're's death in a few episodes. Sam has mentioned Martouf's death in a few. All of these characters were important to the main characters. Yet, no one has mentioned Janet's death when she was an important person in their lives. This is what I don't understand.

I'm surprised that the SG producers have not dealt with Janet's death in a more fitting way. I'm sure that they have received numerous letters, cards and emails regarding it. The way it hasn't been handled has had an impact, or we wouldn't still be discussing it now.

Oh, and I noticed that no one else remembered the doctor's name that replaced Janet, LOL!

Posted by: Christy Nov 29th 2004, 1:07 AM

It was good to see Robert Picardo in a role...i don't think it suited him though. He acted well though but it just wasn't him.
And his character was mean...just hearing what he said about lives, the stargate and how sending a team to save one life for 27 million dollars is not worth it. I mean, thats not fair, everyone learns that you don't leave a man behind.
Hammond was so fantastic, standing up for everything telling the guys where to go...
Don S. Davis is a really great actor and he makes Hammond.

Posted by: CitizenK Nov 29th 2004, 9:13 AM

Posted by: empress venia Jan 6th 2005, 8:03 PM

I just watched this episode after a very long wait, as season seven has been rather dificult to get a hold of here. I had read spoilers for this episode so felt myself prepared for janets death, and had come to terms with her abscence as I have seen season eight. However, what I wasn't prepared for was just how much emotion the other actors on the show could evoke in me. I will admit, i cried, no in fact I sobbed. When they showed the video of Janet actually dieing I choked on my grief as it were. Not only because of the shocking and abrupt way in which she was killed, as usually when main characters are in danger of or actually"die" it is usually prolonged and drawn out, but also because of Daniel's voice on the tape, desperately crying for a medic. This was a very appropriate send off for this character, and the lack of her presence was not missed because of the other characters reactions. Janet was all about positively affecting and helping other people, and to see how negatively her loss affected the people around her was poignant and heartbreaking.
As to the issue of suspense and the is it jack? question, not all people watch this show with such devotion as the people in this forum, and their are casual viewers out there, and the suspense for those people who did not have prior knowledge of Janet's death was very dramatic.
I do however agree that the lack of attention paid to Janet's death after the affect is very reprehensible. I do think she should at least be mentioned every once in a while. Even if its just Sam saying there is an anniversary of some sort with Cassie.
I can understand why they haven't been majorly dealing with the after effects of Janet's death as the timeline of the show is not the same as here in reality. The next mission is maybe weeks even months after Janet's death, and they most likely have had down time to deal with her death.

The thing that really bugs me is that there are so many critiques given in here that are said as if they are facts, and not just opinions. I understand that the fact that I lved this episode and thought it was very well done is just my opinion. I may have watched every episode, but i am not a cinematic expert. Even if you are, because this media is still essentially an art, its all really conjecture. The writers and directors are simply trying to cater to everybody. Some people in this forum want them to deal with emotional issues and go deeper into the characters, while others want more time spent on action, both in quantity and quality. They have to balance this by dealing with the emotional issues in short bursts while mixing in the action. I think they succeed at this in almost every episode. Of course this is just what I think. And I am not going to say the directors or writers suck, as others have, as not only do I appreciate their work. It is personal interpretation of something for which I could not know the "artists" original intention. Although they make the show for the public they must keep the craft something of their own. Some wanted a send off for Janet Fraiser while the makers of the show wanted a tribute to the armed forces. Everything is subjective. And opinions are not facts, and to slander the directors and writers of this show that you obviously are a teency bit obsessed with as we all are, is a little arrogant.

Posted by: sg-1 fan Jan 19th 2005, 2:40 PM

Why did Janet have to die??? Why??? She's one of my favourite characters on the show. I new she was going to die in this episode because I read that she does die in this episode. I first watched it a couple of episodes. This really isn't one of my favourite episodes. Good battle, but still, I didn't like this ep. I'm just gonna quit this rambling. It won't help matters. It's been a year since the episode first aired so there's no use in complainin'.

By the way I haven't been on this site in months, so I'm just going to say hello to everyone who joined while My long absence. I joined in Febuary of last year. HELLO ALL YOU CRAZY STARGATE FANS!!! SG-1 fan is back.

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 19th 2005, 2:48 PM

Posted by: Happenstance Jan 23rd 2005, 6:30 AM

I thought it was a really good episode, I just wish we had more info on what was now happening to Cassy, maybe even showing her reaction to the news

Posted by: Ancient 1 Jan 29th 2005, 3:49 AM

This episode demonstrated just how well these characters are portrayed and hats off to Adam Baldwin who contributed a stunning performance. Heroes is perhaps my Favorite episode(s) as it gets down to the very heart of the SGC. Brings to mind the episode "Need" When Michael Shanks was in the storage room and broke down to his resolve, Outstanding acting!! Being someone who has overcome an addiction myself the scene was done perfectly and right on the money.

From Adams part after the hallway scene with Sam, to the scene with Daniel in his room about the video, these episodes were well thought out and well executed and Heroes are exactly what we are served, Thanks!! 10/10

Posted by: cosmos Jan 31st 2005, 3:37 PM

Presumably (or not so ) he saw a jaffa stealthily moving towards Janet's position and so he tried to go after him, but he got shot before being able to do anything about it.

That little piece of info having been more profound would have helped to connect the two sites (Janet's site and O'Neill's) better first and the storyline later.

On another note:
At the very least they should have given more time on the impact of him being down, more SG team's reactions and perhaps some scenes of the carrying back to the Stargate.

The point that i am trying to make here is that the whole O'Neill scene on the planet felt unnecessary or at the very least unconnected with the rest of the episode storyline. It wasn't even a subplot but with a little bit more info they could have given it a role/purpose in the episode. Instead it was just there.!

Posted by: Invisible Painting Mar 6th 2008, 8:47 PM

QUOTE(croach @ Mar 7th 2008, 1:41 AM)

I thought that Heroes part 2 was 1 of the best episodes ever. I just dont understand why they had to kill off Doc Frasier, I mean, she was the best medical officer ive ever seen on SG1. And the fact that Jack got injured, i never saw that comin.
I just wish that they brung her back like they did with Dr. Becket from Atlantis, How cool would that be, Doc Frasier, Clone??
Anyway, this is my first post, hope i did everything right.

You did everything ok A few people worry about posting here due to the fact that they think it's too strict here, and, well yes our current active mods are a bit 'trigger happy'. But post, be good. Unless you actually break a rule as according to the rule sites you'll be ok.

Posted by: Revan Mar 6th 2008, 9:24 PM

QUOTE(croach @ Mar 6th 2008, 8:41 PM)

I thought that Heroes part 2 was 1 of the best episodes ever. I just dont understand why they had to kill off Doc Frasier, I mean, she was the best medical officer ive ever seen on SG1. And the fact that Jack got injured, i never saw that comin.
I just wish that they brung her back like they did with Dr. Becket from Atlantis, How cool would that be, Doc Frasier, Clone??
Anyway, this is my first post, hope i did everything right.

Well TPTB (the powers that be, i.e. writers, directors, producers) thought that season 7 would be the last season, so it didn't matter too much if they killed off one character, because it was a huge emotional impact.

They actually did bring her back for one episode in... season 9 I think, and there was a big emotional component to that part.

QUOTE(Invisible Painting @ Mar 6th 2008, 8:47 PM)

You did everything ok A few people worry about posting here due to the fact that they think it's too strict here, and, well yes our current active mods are a bit 'trigger happy'. But post, be good. Unless you actually break a rule as according to the rule sites you'll be ok.

I am trying not to take that personally...

And for your information, I dislike guns.

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