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Stargate Information Archive _ Atlantis Season 3 _ 315 - The Game
Posted by: Arcady Dec 20th 2006, 9:14 PM
Season 3, Episode 15 - The Game
Air date: 2007
Sheppard and McKay discover that their competitive video game has been controlling a planet of real people, who now stand on the brink of war.
http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s3.shtml#315 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15071 | http://www.sg1archive.com/teasers/a315.html
(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)
Posted by: canuck Dec 20th 2006, 11:28 PM
Saw it, thought it was a good episode, but not great. So much was predictable, yet I found it odd that the people seemed so hell bent on war, that they wouldn't listen to the guidance of their previous 'gods'.
That just didn't make sense to me. But the ending was OK, and Zelenka was great!
What is going on with the order of episodes for Atlantis too???
Posted by: magnavox Dec 21st 2006, 12:34 AM
This episode was meh. Kinda boring, I guess the chess game at the end was funny. 
I listen to enough video game arguement crap here, guess I wasn't all that thrilled to see it on Atlantis.
Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Dec 21st 2006, 1:22 AM
Two roll eyes smilies from Mag!
This episode must have sucked! lol
Posted by: thehighcommander Dec 21st 2006, 2:36 AM
ok, what site did you guys find that you can download episodes before they air???
Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 21st 2006, 4:37 AM
ok, what site did you guys find that you can download episodes before they air???
Thisi site does not condone the downloading of episodes AT ALL!. We do not even discuss that subject. Some people live in areas of the world where the show is currently being aired.
I think this is very good insight to the Ancient's frame of mind regarding interference. Perhaps they have seen so many terrible things happen because of their good intentions, that they are unwilling to risk the possibility to causing the same catastrophe with their ascended powers.
Posted by: deadulus101 Dec 21st 2006, 6:08 AM
I thought it was an ok episode they missed a huge opurtunity here to maybe build their civilizaion up to a level of technology equal to their own to have an ally or maybe even past that which would allow them to trade with them and get cool weapons and advanced stuff. They have blueprints for several weapons they just can't build them like ex. Tollan Ion cannon.
Posted by: canuck Dec 21st 2006, 8:18 AM
You can't just quickly build up a civilization up to our technology without dire consequences. Remember what happen to the people the Tollan 'helped'?
Posted by: Pitry Dec 21st 2006, 8:48 AM
Hmpf.
So, entertaining episode all in all, had a couple of entertaining moments between Rodney adn Sheppard.... *thinks* a bit silly tho.
Kinda pissed off with the coup out in the end. "Oh, it was a simoulation"... if they're already going the path of "hey! let's make a real sim city!" they should have had the guts to go end with it - having these two countries destroy each otehr in the process, the team beamed up in the nick of time (for once, that would have been a beaming up I don't mind) and the planet going kaboom. At last it would have given the story some sort of a point.
The |"train question" in teh ebginning of the episode, so bloody obvious, could have lived without.
So, we're back to Ronon and Teyloa doing nothing? A shame really, cos I felt they were starting to utilise them more recently. Still, I think Ronon and Rodney have built up quite an entertaining chemistry, I like seeing these two together. Actually, I think they work better than Sheppard and Ronon.
Entertainign McKay pictures everywhere 
...that's it, really.
What do you mean, 3 weeks' break?!
Unrelated: I see Arcady jsut gave up trying to figure out the episoe order and decided to give threads for all episodes? 
Posted by: fan_83 Dec 21st 2006, 9:56 AM
well i guess we finally sees the justfication for the noninterference policy of the ascended ancients.. in all and every matters..
perfect example: zelenka helping his game along then move on to war...
perhaps now some of the others will stop harping about the ancients not helping at all
Posted by: Pitry Dec 21st 2006, 11:28 AM
perfect example: zelenka helping his game along then move on to war...
To be honest, I found that part a little too blunt. While it was entertaining to see both Zelenka and Lorne arguing that way, I woul have thought they haev more sense than that - and I could live without the proverbial sledgehammer (as if the train question in the beginning wasn't enough).
Posted by: Revan Dec 21st 2006, 12:46 PM
I liked this episode. It was a fair causality and ethics commentary. I saw that ending coming from a mile away though... Although, now everybody should understand why the Ancients have non-interference rules...!
I recognized the actress playing Nola from The Dead Zone.
I saw no subtlety in this episode... everything was too blunt. It was blatantly about ethical dilemmas and 'the prime directive'...
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 21st 2006, 4:33 PM
Wow, Atlantis proves again that it has the greatest episodes since it has begun this season. A great episode indeed.
I liked the whole idea of this reality game, and the whole way the two civilizations looked up after their two Oracles. McKay's pictures everywhere were just creepy though. 
Liked the ending as well... But will they really stop interfering with the rest of civilizations in that program from now on? Did Zelenka and Lorne do any permanent damage in their games? Questions that should have been answered by the writers while Sheppard was kicking McKay's ass at chess.
Posted by: Pitry Dec 21st 2006, 6:34 PM
I liked this episode. It was a fair causality and ethics commentary.
I saw that ending coming from a mile away though... Although, now everybody should understand why the Ancients have non-interference rules...!I recognized the actress playing Nola from The Dead Zone.
I saw no subtlety in this episode... everything was too blunt. It was blatantly about ethical dilemmas and 'the prime directive'...
That's my point - way too blunt! It feels like they woke up one day and said "okay, now let's write an ethics episode" - I mean, as far as dubious ethics, I'd rather have the completely shaken moral basis of Misbegotten over this. Not to mentino Poisoning the Well.
You can't say the topic of the episode is an ethical dillema (well, you can, but...). You need it to have a sensible plot, and in between get theehthical stuff. The plot, IMO, wouldn't've survived on its own, and that;s a problem for an episode.
Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Dec 22nd 2006, 12:30 AM
I liked this episode. It was a fair causality and ethics commentary.
I saw that ending coming from a mile away though... Although, now everybody should understand why the Ancients have non-interference rules...!I don't know, it was like they were trying to screw it up for them though. It didn't seem like that would have been the natural turn of events to me.
And on top of it, Rodney and Shep probably wouldn't have played the game the same way had they known it was real people.
Posted by: fan_83 Dec 22nd 2006, 11:39 AM
and we shouldn;t do what we do because the animals that we eat can also think....
see the difference between ascended ancients and standard humans
Posted by: Revan Dec 23rd 2006, 4:47 AM
I don't know, it was like they were trying to screw it up for them though. It didn't seem like that would have been the natural turn of events to me.
And on top of it, Rodney and Shep probably wouldn't have played the game the same way had they known it was real people.
Well, I doubt they would have been at each other's thoats if John and Meredith hadn't interfered. They would have peacefully coexisted.
No, probably not. The Ancients had taken it upon themselves to seed Pegasus with human life. It makes sense that they would want to figure out the most effective way to do it, and also to study the effects of their actions. They might have been studying technology levels, and how best to advance the humans.
and we shouldn;t do what we do because the animals that we eat can also think....
see the difference between ascended ancients and standard humans
I have no idea what that was supposed to mean. Try again.
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 23rd 2006, 10:57 AM
It only comes to me wondering how old could those civilizations could have been... When did the Ancients started to monitor their progress, so how old is the "game"? 
It is only fair to assume that it's more than 15,000 years old. But it can't be very old, since the Ancients wouldn't be able to communicate in that way with any civilization that is too primitive, because they wouldn't know how to use the device, and it would influence the development too much if they would have come personally to teach them.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 23rd 2006, 11:49 AM
It only comes to me wondering how old could those civilizations could have been... When did the Ancients started to monitor their progress, so how old is the "game"?
It is only fair to assume that it's more than 15,000 years old. But it can't be very old, since the Ancients wouldn't be able to communicate in that way with any civilization that is too primitive, because they wouldn't know how to use the device, and it would influence the development too much if they would have come personally to teach them.
That's a very good point.
It's weird to me that the Wraith would visit that planet and leave all of the Ancient satellites intact.
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 23rd 2006, 12:04 PM
That's a very good point.
It's weird to me that the Wraith would visit that planet and leave all of the Ancient satellites intact.
But, did the Wraith visit that planet at all...? Because I don't remember that being mentioned.
I remember Zelenka mentioning that some of the worlds in the game developed nicely alone, and some were destroyed or culled by Wraith, which brings me to the second question of the evening...
If the Wraith culled worlds monitored by Ancients, why did they left those satellites intact...? Because if they were still emitting information, they were still there... Could it be because they didn't detect them? Perhaps, but there is a puzzle: how come, they had stargates on the planet's orbit.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 23rd 2006, 12:22 PM
But, did the Wraith visit that planet at all...? Because I don't remember that being mentioned.
I remember Zelenka mentioning that some of the worlds in the game developed nicely alone, and some were destroyed or culled by Wraith, which brings me to the second question of the evening...
If the Wraith culled worlds monitored by Ancients, why did they left those satellites intact...? Because if they were still emitting information, they were still there... Could it be because they didn't detect them? Perhaps, but there is a puzzle: how come, they had stargates on the planet's orbit.
The blonde chick (whose name I can't remember) said that their world had be culled by the wraith.
Maybe their didn't know what they were, and since they weren't bothering the wraith, there was no point in wasting time with them...?
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 23rd 2006, 12:28 PM
The blonde chick (whose name I can't remember) said that their world had be culled by the wraith.
Maybe their didn't know what they were, and since they weren't bothering the wraith, there was no point in wasting time with them...?
If I would be a Wraith and see a perfect grid of satellites on the orbit of the planet I'm just going to cull, I would be suspectful of some sort of communication... Of course, that would be me...
Posted by: canuck Dec 23rd 2006, 1:04 PM
and we shouldn;t do what we do because the animals that we eat can also think....
see the difference between ascended ancients and standard humans
What on earth do you mean? I seriously don't get what that had to do with what we are talking about.
Good catch on the Wraith and the satellites, they cull the world but don't check out those satellites?
One theory is that the satellites may not have been totally powered up while the cullings took place, but when Rodney and Sheppard turned the game back on the satellites powered back up?
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 23rd 2006, 1:20 PM
What on earth do you mean? I seriously don't get what that had to do with what we are talking about.
Good catch on the Wraith and the satellites, they cull the world but don't check out those satellites?
One theory is that the satellites may not have been totally powered up while the cullings took place, but when Rodney and Sheppard turned the game back on the satellites powered back up?
Power or no power, the satellites would still be there when the Wraith darts would come through the Stargate, and because they were directly above the two civilizations they were studying, it would be next to impossible for the Wraith not to spot them.
Posted by: Revan Dec 23rd 2006, 3:57 PM
It only comes to me wondering how old could those civilizations could have been... When did the Ancients started to monitor their progress, so how old is the "game"?
It is only fair to assume that it's more than 15,000 years old. But it can't be very old, since the Ancients wouldn't be able to communicate in that way with any civilization that is too primitive, because they wouldn't know how to use the device, and it would influence the development too much if they would have come personally to teach them.
Well I don't think the Ancients initiated genetic tests on multiple worlds that would eventually create human life. That would have taken a long long time. I, personally, think they plopped humans down on these planets most probably.
The whole process is logistically insane, each planet would have to be terraformed and adapted to support human life. Then humans would have to somehow be planted on each planet. Then they would have to wait until they were sufficiently advanced.
I find myself wanting TPTB to explain how any of this was done.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 23rd 2006, 4:04 PM
Well I don't think the Ancients initiated genetic tests on multiple worlds that would eventually create human life. That would have taken a long long time. I, personally, think they plopped humans down on these planets most probably.
The whole process is logistically insane, each planet would have to be terraformed and adapted to support human life. Then humans would have to somehow be planted on each planet. Then they would have to wait until they were sufficiently advanced.
I find myself wanting TPTB to explain how any of this was done.
I'm not sure the Powers that Be have an explanation as to exactly how that was done.
EDIT: I take that back. Perhaps they would say, that the Ancients had some sort of device that they used in conjunction with the stargate that sent some sort of wave through, and created life in the galaxy? When you get to use your imagination, anything is possible
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 23rd 2006, 4:07 PM
EDIT: I take that back. Perhaps they would say, that the Ancients had some sort of device that they used in conjunction with the stargate that sent some sort of wave through, and created life in the galaxy? When you get to use your imagination, anything is possible
And yes, that IS a Dakara type device...
Posted by: Pitry Dec 23rd 2006, 4:21 PM
Well I don't think the Ancients initiated genetic tests on multiple worlds that would eventually create human life. That would have taken a long long time. I, personally, think they plopped humans down on these planets most probably.
The whole process is logistically insane, each planet would have to be terraformed and adapted to support human life. Then humans would have to somehow be planted on each planet. Then they would have to wait until they were sufficiently advanced.
I find myself wanting TPTB to explain how any of this was done.
Well, while it does seem like an impossible task, perhaps the Ancients were patient enough to start it? They did have millions of years, after all.
Posted by: poundpuppy29 Dec 24th 2006, 12:23 AM
This ep was ok. I loved the bantering between Sheppard and Rodney. I like that Weir said we are not qualified to do this absolute power corrupts. I don't think TPTB will explain more detail about this ep they will leave that up to us I think. I do think this is another example of why the Ancients don't help why they have that law.
Posted by: klbro8 Dec 24th 2006, 3:14 AM
Any one else find it strange that the game was in real time but when watching on the console the game was running 4 or 5 times speed. All in all i found this episode boring and i left the room to do other things. Which i have never done before.
Posted by: Revan Dec 24th 2006, 4:54 AM
I'm not sure the Powers that Be have an explanation as to exactly how that was done.
EDIT: I take that back. Perhaps they would say, that the Ancients had some sort of device that they used in conjunction with the stargate that sent some sort of wave through, and created life in the galaxy? When you get to use your imagination, anything is possible
Very witty.
The device at Dakara re-wrote all life, because it had been exterminated. There was already life in Pegasus, and the Iratus bug is still around.
Well, while it does seem like an impossible task, perhaps the Ancients were patient enough to start it? They did have millions of years, after all.
I agree with that point. they had a long long time to seed the planets, they may have just sent science teams to go plant veggies.
Posted by: KillerMarv Dec 24th 2006, 5:23 AM
Any one else find it strange that the game was in real time but when watching on the console the game was running 4 or 5 times speed. All in all i found this episode boring and i left the room to do other things. Which i have never done before.
It wasn't a real game actually... The console wasn't used to control the entire map, all the troops and things. It only served for giving instructions to the leaders of both parties. The satellite would then monitor the progress, and transfer data through sub-space in a discrete method (meaning from time to time). It also translated the imagery into symbols, and transmit the responses given by the two leaders.
Posted by: NRJ Dec 27th 2006, 12:13 AM
It seems to me it's been a while since we had a episode with the Wraith in it. Is Season 3 gonna be a season with less wraith episodes? seems weird to me.
Anyway this episode was err ok i guess, though far from being a good episode. I wonder if this episode has a perpose or would there be another episode related to this one in the future.
Wasnt there an episode this week? I guess they took a holiday for Xmas week.
Posted by: Revan Dec 27th 2006, 2:08 PM
TPTB probably realized that fans were not impressed by the Wraith, and decided to sit them on the back burner.
Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Dec 28th 2006, 8:21 PM
I don't know if it was fans not liking them, because they are a really scary and good villain. But you need to have more than one villain, that's for sure!
Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 28th 2006, 8:45 PM
I don't know if it was fans not liking them, because they are a really scary and good villain. But you need to have more than one villain, that's for sure!
Yeah, I agree. in SG1, the Goa'uld were the main enemy, but there were lots of other antagonists on other planets that they're travelled to. besides the Genii and the Asurans, we haven't seen much of that in 3.5 seasons.
Posted by: dr lee Dec 29th 2006, 12:04 AM
Yeah, I agree. in SG1, the Goa'uld were the main enemy, but there were lots of other antagonists on other planets that they're travelled to. besides the Genii and the Asurans, we haven't seen much of that in 3.5 seasons.
Weren't the Asurans brought in because TPTB were worried that the Wraith weren't turning out to be evil enough to carry the show on their own?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Dec 29th 2006, 12:52 AM
Weren't the Asurans brought in because TPTB were worried that the Wraith weren't turning out to be evil enough to carry the show on their own?
I'm sure they're evil enough, probably not interesting enough.
Posted by: canuck Dec 29th 2006, 7:42 PM
I don't think they have delved into the Wraith enough. There are so many questions I can think of that have yet to be answered. But having more 'stuff' out there probably makes it easier to have good stories.
Like the ancients in early SG-1, they kind of just threw it out there and then years later it became a huge part of the show, and then another show!
Posted by: Cobra186 Dec 30th 2006, 9:33 PM
From what I understand, these episodes are being released in Canada right now?
What station? Because I'm in Canada and I can't seem to find the station
Posted by: Revan Dec 31st 2006, 1:24 PM
From what I understand, these episodes are being released in Canada right now?
What station? Because I'm in Canada and I can't seem to find the station
http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=13337&view=findpost&p=442637
OK I conceed it appears the correct sequence is as follows
Canadian Movie Central
08th Jan 2007 - Atlantis 316 - The Ark
15th Jan 2007 - Atlantis 317 - Sunday
22nd Jan 2007 - Atlantis 318 - Submersion
29th Jan 2007 - Atlantis 319 - Vengeance
05th Feb 2007 - Atlantis 320 - First Strike
Posted by: Pegasus Angel Jan 1st 2007, 7:22 AM
I saw this ep a few days ago and thought it was fun...epsecially Zalenka and Lorne ending up fighting...
If you're into pc games the episode would be more entertaining, the possibilities of that device are enormous, dangerous too obviously, but I thought it was great.
The plot wasn't that good, but still, a good episode imho
Posted by: quiquito Jan 8th 2007, 4:10 PM
I quite liked the episode overall. One thing I didn't like is that I felt that Sheppard got too much blame for escalating the situation. I felt that this was in large Rodney's fault (** don't all scream at me at once **). Sheppard did increase the Army, but I'm sure he wouldn't have done that if he knew it was real people. Rodney on the other hand, did give them too much technology, technology they weren't ready for, they advanced too quickly in such a short period of time. But what really got me was that Rodney was ok with his people invading Sheppards country to steal coal, and that he didn't want to negociate, and telling them that Citrus fruit was offensive. I found the citrus joke funny, but I would have expected Rodney or someone to say that it was ridiculus and that they should accept the fruit, since it's pretty much all Sheppard's people had to offer.
Posted by: Major Gordon Sumner Jan 9th 2007, 7:22 PM
Could tell me, what TPTB means, I see that all the time. I think it means The Power that Be, but what teh signification of that ? Thanks !
Posted by: dr lee Jan 9th 2007, 7:36 PM
TPTB= The Powers That Be
or in other words those behind Stargate making things happen
Posted by: More Cowbell! Jan 10th 2007, 9:46 PM
I don't know if we can say they advanced too quickly. They were't warring with themselves, and people seemed to be handling the advancements relatively well. Of course if he knew they were real people he (Rodney) would have negotiated in better faith as well.
Posted by: glom Jan 16th 2007, 4:26 PM
47% Yeah the idea was cute and perhaps even had great potential, but it was just... like... yer know... kinda... whatever!
RETROCONTINUITY OF THE WEEK: So this game has been going on for years? You know... I mean... Well okay I suppose this needed an elongated backstory and such a puff piece wasn't worth planning in advance but still retconning is just annoying.
RETRO FASHION OF THE WEEK: Ancient SimCity!
RETRO PLOT ELEMENT OF THE WEEK: The pretty, dim aliens who believes the Tau'ri are gods on first arrival are a little repetitive now.
RETRO PERSONALITY OF THE WEEK: Annoyingly dull and beligerent little, dim aliens are so season six of SG1.
RETRO PHILOSOPHY OF THE WEEK: This game must have been invented before the Ancient Prime Directive came into effect. Maybe this game had something to do with that philosophy. Ooooh! Shame the idea wasn't explored in more detail.
RETRO INTELLIGENCE OF THE WEEK: How many time do we have to tell you? Don't leave the bad guy alone with the supercomputer!
RETRO ACTING OF THE WEEK: Retrograde that is! I don't like to blame actors because we have seen how a bad situation can bring out a bad performance from an otherwise capable actor (Episode III and Ewan McGregor for example). But the point remains, I was not enamoured with the guest stars this week.
RETRO MORALITY OF THE WEEK: Yeah, war is bad. Who da thunk it? How about a more impressive allegory about the corruption of power. Yes perhaps a little too Milton Friedman for the Pacific West Coast. Or what about the mistake of believing that even with the best intentions, try to be a god will lead to disaster? Way too Milton Friedman for the Pacific West Coast!
Posted by: stalker0 Jan 22nd 2007, 5:47 PM
When I first saw the plotline for this episode, I thought "OMG, the weirdest idea ever." However, I just watched it, and I was pretty impressed by the ethical portrayal.
However, I think its interesting that Weir on the one hand says, "We shouldn't be interfering with them." and on the other, "We HAVE to stop a war between them."
"War is bad" is an idea as much as anything else. As much as war horrifies us, it is as important a part of us as anything else that's human. War over resources and land doesn't seem so horrible when it ensures your children have plenty of farmland to live off of and plenty of resources for your children's children.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Feb 1st 2007, 11:12 PM
So, let me see if i understand the Ancient rulebook... Posing as gods to civilizations while you're physically living, thats perfectly fine, trying to protect innocent people from being murdered once you've ascended... thats wrong?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Feb 2nd 2007, 12:10 AM
So, let me see if i understand the Ancient rulebook... Posing as gods to civilizations while you're physically living, thats perfectly fine, trying to protect innocent people from being murdered once you've ascended... thats wrong?
What you fail to understand in all of your infinite wisdom is that when you have infinite power, you have to draw yourself bold lines of conduct. If you have the ability to impose your will on all of the beings in the universe, there is nothing to stop your from getting out of control except for other beings with equal or great power than yourself.
Even if you only do good deeds, like the Asguard. Remember what happened in the ep where SG1 flew through that planets sun? The people refused to help themselves, because they had been so reliant on the Asguard. They were willing to die on their beliefs when the Asguard could not help them.
quest 2 spoilers
Posted by: Parmenides Feb 7th 2007, 1:15 PM
Gasp - a flimsily thought-out, hard to swallow Atlantis plot? Who'd have thought! 
It was nice to see Daisy from Dead Like Me again. Still, it just seemed as though the writers had had an idea (a good one, to be fair), and built a poor-constructed episode around it. There seemed to be little point to the whole thing, apart from hammering you over the head bluntly with its over-stated moral.
Playing God...bad? 
Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 7th 2007, 4:15 PM
A very poor episode and completely pointless too. The plot was bad, the script was bad and the acting by the supporting cast was bad. I was hoping that someone would shoot the dumb blonde in charge of McKay's country, she just annoyed the hell out of me.
Posted by: JC1 Feb 7th 2007, 4:32 PM
Not great really. Kind of predictable and slow.
Weir gets a chance to show off her negotiating skills, her supposed area of expertise. But then gives up after a couple of minutes and decides to get Shepard and Mckay to sort out the mess. Bit of a waste really.
Posted by: 38_mins moo Feb 14th 2007, 10:34 AM
So i finally got round to watching this episode and if i'm honest i wish i hadn't. Very big letdown especially after "Tao of McKay".
It was as if nobody could be arsed for that week of filming, especially the supporting cast. And it just reminded me of the sims too much to be enjoyable.
I personally think it was the worst kind of filler episode and really its not not much of a benchmark for the remaining episodes. From what i've heard there going to be a bit hit or miss aswell! 2/10
Season 3 has been a tale of highs and lows, this being the lowest of the low alongside phantoms!
Posted by: Reignfire May 11th 2007, 9:09 PM
I agree that it's doubtful those satellites would still exist after the Wraith have been there. I thought all the pictures of McKay was funny, but how did they even know what he looked like? He never communicated with them visually.
I recognized her from Dead Like Me. Her name's Laura Harris: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0364977/
I thought she was kind of cute
I can't believe I forgot to mention my favorite part. I couldn't stop laughing after she mentioned citrus was toxic and Weir's comment of she knew why they thought that.
Posted by: KillerMarv May 12th 2007, 1:17 AM
I agree that it's doubtful those satellites would still exist after the Wraith have been there. I thought all the pictures of McKay was funny, but how did they even know what he looked like? He never communicated with them visually.
He said he gave them instructions on how he looked like. By the way those pictures looked, he gave them pretty useful information.
Posted by: soma_momma May 12th 2007, 1:21 AM
I liked this episode. It was a fair causality and ethics commentary.
I saw that ending coming from a mile away though... Although, now everybody should understand why the Ancients have non-interference rules...!I recognized the actress playing Nola from The Dead Zone.
I saw no subtlety in this episode... everything was too blunt. It was blatantly about ethical dilemmas and 'the prime directive'...
And did you see her blue teeth in the scene where she was eating the "delicious" blue jello?
Why would they bother focusing on the jello and wasting a line on it being delicious?
Maybe the blue teeth was supposed to be symbolic of the stain of cultural corruption from paternalistic powers?
Or did they just not have the budget and/or time to either reshoot the scene or touch it up?
Posted by: Sighfienerd May 12th 2007, 12:11 PM
I had a hard time with willing suspension of disbelief here on a couple of fronts. For one, I don't believe that Sheppard and Rodney would just assume that the ancients were only playing a game, given the technology devoted to it as well as what we know of the nature of the ancients.
Also, the whole "god in a console" concept is hard to swallow as well. If they were advanced enough to make bombs, then they were advanced enough to understand that technology is just that and not a superior being/power.
Was this episode supposed to show why the ancients decided on the non-interference rule? If so, it seems pretty merciless that the ancients simply abandoned the peoples that they had spend years "guiding" without so much as a so long and thanks for all the fish.
Lastly, Zelenka and Lorne playing the "game" when they were fully aware of the true nature of the technology - in addition to Weir's orders to stop - seemed morally wrong to me and should have to them as well.
Anywho, thought it was a bit slow and predictable and poor Ronan and Teyla were, once again, completely superfluous.
I did get a good laugh at the end when Sheppard checkmated Rodney. Ohhhh, that had to hurt!
Posted by: JTMAG1 May 12th 2007, 12:56 PM
I had a hard time with willing suspension of disbelief here on a couple of fronts. For one, I don't believe that Sheppard and Rodney would just assume that the ancients were only playing a game, given the technology devoted to it as well as what we know of the nature of the ancients.
Also, the whole "god in a console" concept is hard to swallow as well. If they were advanced enough to make bombs, then they were advanced enough to understand that technology is just that and not a superior being/power.
The civilization wasn't that advanced when Rodney started. The Ancient's were much more responsible with their developement.
Was this episode supposed to show why the ancients decided on the non-interference rule? If so, it seems pretty merciless that the ancients simply abandoned the peoples that they had spend years "guiding" without so much as a so long and thanks for all the fish.
The non-interference rule was started after the ascended. The Ancients had their hands in developing the societies that they created before they ascended.
Lastly, Zelenka and Lorne playing the "game" when they were fully aware of the true nature of the technology - in addition to Weir's orders to stop - seemed morally wrong to me and should have to them as well.
I think that was just superfluous plot filler.
Posted by: IndyJan May 12th 2007, 11:09 PM
Saw this episode last night. It was okay. Definitely can tell why the Ancients have the non-inteference policy.
So the ancients seeded and began these worlds and when they had to leave Atlantis, these worlds were on their own. They had to live on their own and survive on their own. Some did and some didn't. I think it was obvious because of McKay and Shep and then Zelenka and Lorne, that too much power does indeed corrupt. They each only saw one side of things. I did like how they finally resolved the problems. They gave them an all-out war with casualties, not just a game board, but some realism. Of course, it wasn't real, but it felt that way to them.
Posted by: JTMAG1 May 12th 2007, 11:27 PM
Saw this episode last night. It was okay. Definitely can tell why the Ancients have the non-inteference policy.
So the ancients seeded and began these worlds and when they had to leave Atlantis, these worlds were on their own. They had to live on their own and survive on their own. Some did and some didn't. I think it was obvious because of McKay and Shep and then Zelenka and Lorne, that too much power does indeed corrupt. They each only saw one side of things. I did like how they finally resolved the problems. They gave them an all-out war with casualties, not just a game board, but some realism. Of course, it wasn't real, but it felt that way to them.
I have been wondering why the Ancients, if they meant no harm... even made this a two sided thing. Why would you need two opposing factions on each planet? The two "players" are sitting accross from each other like they are playing Battleship or something.
Posted by: Sighfienerd May 12th 2007, 11:32 PM
The civilization wasn't that advanced when Rodney started. The Ancient's were much more responsible with their developement.
But even so, JT...once they understood the concepts behind advanced technology, don't you think there would have been some questioning about who or what the "god of the console" actually was? They are obviously an intelligent and intuitive people - so it stands to reason that their intellect and logic would have led them to deconstruct the technology by which their "god" was conveyed and at the very least, ask some hard questions. Or maybe that's just me.
The non-interference rule was started after the ascended. The Ancients had their hands in developing the societies that they created before they ascended.
But therein lies a paradigm shift regarding the ancients. How can any race ascend (i.e., let go of the bonds of the physical by achieving spiritual and mental "superiority") when clearly they were arrogant, egocentric, and probably even meglomaniacs. (The bastards.) They believed themselves to be godlike, which doesn't seem particularly godlike, given that they made so many errors that were harmful to other humans.
Posted by: Shylodog May 13th 2007, 3:57 AM
I have been wondering why the Ancients, if they meant no harm... even made this a two sided thing. Why would you need two opposing factions on each planet? The two "players" are sitting accross from each other like they are playing Battleship or something.
If you noticed, when Rodney and Sheppard first found the "Game Room" it was only one screen and one terminal.
It only became "Command & Conquer" after Rodney adapted the equipment to be able to hook up their Dell PC's. It was Rodney's misinterpretation of the technology that made them think it was a game. It was the Ancient's scientific curiosity that required 2 sides, a control group and a non-control group. If one person were running the experiment (and understood what it was about from the get-go) your wouldn't end up (in theory) with the opposing sides. The moment you introduce a second "Oracle" in the experiment, you lose your controlled environment.
That's how I saw it anyways.
Posted by: JTMAG1 May 13th 2007, 9:10 AM
If you noticed, when Rodney and Sheppard first found the "Game Room" it was only one screen and one terminal.
It only became "Command & Conquer" after Rodney adapted the equipment to be able to hook up their Dell PC's. It was Rodney's misinterpretation of the technology that made them think it was a game. It was the Ancient's scientific curiosity that required 2 sides, a control group and a non-control group. If one person were running the experiment (and understood what it was about from the get-go) your wouldn't end up (in theory) with the opposing sides. The moment you introduce a second "Oracle" in the experiment, you lose your controlled environment.
That's how I saw it anyways.
There wasn't a control group, but groups had an interface in their village.
Posted by: Shylodog May 13th 2007, 2:41 PM
There wasn't a control group, but groups had an interface in their village.
You don't know that. Just as much as I don't know that there was. For all we know, the Ancient could have told the poeple of Group "B" not to move forward in their development, while simultaniously telling Group "A" how to advance. Truth is, we don't know.
The Ancients were all about science until ascension. And in every experiment, you need a control group.
Posted by: JTMAG1 May 13th 2007, 3:45 PM
You don't know that. Just as much as I don't know that there was. For all we know, the Ancient could have told the poeple of Group "B" not to move forward in their development, while simultaniously telling Group "A" how to advance. Truth is, we don't know.
The Ancients were all about science until ascension. And in every experiment, you need a control group.
In effective science, the control is the group that you don't do anything with. Even if the Ancients used the console to tell them to stay put, that's not a control, because they are influencing their developement.
When Sheppard came back with his guy, he told Mckay that he had the same story as Rodney's people.
Posted by: Dafmeister May 13th 2007, 5:11 PM
The control group could have been on a different planet. As I recall, there were several planets in Pegasus that had the satellites orbiting them.
Posted by: ancient01 May 13th 2007, 6:29 PM
If I recall correctly, this episode was written by one of the new writers. It did have a sort of "classical" sci-fi feel. I think that is something that the series lacks. I'm not sure this specific episode provided the series with what it needed, but maybe the new blood can help the overall storylines a bit. Hopefully the rest of the season is better...
Posted by: Maximusgeneral1 May 16th 2007, 3:59 PM
If I recall correctly, this episode was written by one of the new writers. It did have a sort of "classical" sci-fi feel. I think that is something that the series lacks. I'm not sure this specific episode provided the series with what it needed, but maybe the new blood can help the overall storylines a bit. Hopefully the rest of the season is better...
I agree, This episode could lead to much better storylines.
Posted by: bostjan91 Aug 16th 2007, 2:11 PM
I think that this could be usefull to get a strong ally. You say to them that they must evolve and offcourse they would obey!
Posted by: Dafmeister Aug 16th 2007, 4:06 PM
As we saw later in the episode, they started to ignore Sheppard and Rodney. What would happen if the players advanced their races only to have them ignore what the players said later?
Posted by: bostjan91 Aug 17th 2007, 2:22 AM
Every race likes to get new technologies. I think they would not be so hurt But that is my opinion what would happen we could not know
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 17th 2007, 2:38 AM
To make the new races your allies, one must wait several hundred years. If the races are to listen to the players, they will only do it upon small and non sudden improvements to their civilization. If the races evolve as close to natural as possible to modern times, than perhaps they will be thankful for the help provided. If they are rushed too much, well, let's say that it's like piloting an F-22 when you're 16 years old. A race must first reach enough "maturity" to know how to handle the technology. You could start a war by providing advanced technology to a race that doesn't yet know the peaceful advantages of a technological piece. They could not only wipe out the neighboring civilizations, but themselves as well.
Oh well, more can be learned by actually understanding not only this episode, but the entire Stargate SG-1 and Atlantis series.
Posted by: Dafmeister Aug 17th 2007, 4:22 AM
You can't force advancements on a race and expect then to adapt quickly and use that technology for good. Imagine a child with a gun and that child hasn't been taught how to use it properly. That child would cause more harm that good and that is how it would be if the Atlantis team started to advanced Human world with that device.
Edit: Sorry Marv, I didn't see your post.
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 17th 2007, 7:08 AM
Edit: Sorry Marv, I didn't see your post.
No problem. A lesson can be taught better with more than one examples.
Posted by: Revan Aug 17th 2007, 11:09 AM
Every race likes to get new technologies. I think they would not be so hurt
But that is my opinion what would happen we could not knowWe have seen repeatedly that interference in the development of a non-advanced society can be disasterous.
The Asgard wouldn't do it because they didn't think we were ready.
The Nox said we were too young.
The original Tollan world lost its orbit because they provided advanced technologies to another planet in their system, which exploded.
And in this episode, we saw what happens when you give a civilization too much, too quickly.
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