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Posted by: Arcady Aug 20th 2004, 7:44 PM

Episode 7 - Poisoning the Well
Air Date: (US) August 20, 2004

The team gates to another world used by the Wraith as a feeding ground, but whose people are on the brink of a discovery that may make them immune to their enemy.

http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s1.shtml#107 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6979 | http://www.sg1archive.com/teasers/a107.html

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)

Posted by: infra172 Aug 20th 2004, 10:08 PM

They killed Steve! Oh no!

Posted by: Natoma Aug 20th 2004, 10:10 PM

Atlantis is getting better and better each week. I really felt the gravity of their struggle, and their willingness to accept 50% losses so that the wraith would be destroyed. Superbly acted, though you just knew that the love interest was going to get it. Though, I'm glad they didn't show her dying on screen. I'm glad they were just with one another. It made it more powerful imo when she actually did die.

And was it just me, or did she look like a ghost of her self, almost wraith like, when she was laying on the bed? Anyway, thumbs up for this episode. I really hope they follow up on this.

Posted by: Bowley Aug 20th 2004, 10:11 PM

Say hello and goodbye to Steve the Wraith, LOL
It stuck too, even ford called him Steve.

Decent episode.
Got some emotional insight into Dr. Beckett, the Scotsman.
Missed Mckay, I missed his obnoxious, I'm smarter than thou humor this episode. Oh well.

And we now have a way to fend off the Wraith feeding process...although at a cost.
It's last ditch at best. I want to see the team return to this planet and find out what happens later on. Maybe next season.

I guess they take the puddle jumper through the gate all the time now? Is it really necessary? If it is based on a planet, just rough it like SG-1..come on. Some of the best stuff happened walking to and from the gate. Or are there just a lot more space gates in the pegasus?

Posted by: infra172 Aug 20th 2004, 10:13 PM

They can cloak if anything goes wrong if they take a puddle jumper. Plus, its super fast and the ladies love it.

Posted by: MYOB Aug 20th 2004, 10:23 PM

Considering the expected size of the wrath presence in the galaxy it's reasonable to assume that any completion of their attempts to regain their full strength followed by a full scale attack suggests that it will probably be an end of the season clifhanger or next season premise.
It would take months to cull any heard large enough to sustain possibly millins of wraths.

But more importantly, the points.

1. Excuse me but if they were going to make such a sacrifice, I would think they'd keep the scientists, dump the leaders. I mean really? Who's more important? The scientists who make you your weapons, etc or some elected official who is and will get replaced at some later date? Having the doctor die seemed a major waste.

2. Why didn't they bring the guy to atlantis for the feeding just to make sure nothing went wrong and to allow them to use the ancients equipment to monitor things?

3. I am wondering just how easy it is for complete strangers from off world to gain access to your planet's leaders? If this happened on Earth you could rest assured that the world's leaders would never see the aliens except through a two way video meeting. Never in person.

4. And just how easily was it for them to be taken to their area 51 equivalent? These people are going to let total strangers near their most guarded secrets??? Again, this would never happen on Earth except for the fact we probably already have aliens at area 51.

5. Nice to see the Doc getting involved. Of all the characters I like him the most simply for the variety, and the fact I mistook him for Irish not Scottish.

MYOB'
.

Posted by: Reignfire Aug 20th 2004, 10:24 PM

I thought it was good that Dr. Beckett had an episode.

I agree, it's too bad about Steve. I figured he would be around for atleast another episode or two.

Posted by: infra172 Aug 20th 2004, 10:38 PM

I'm just glad Atlantis didn't go down the road Alias did (having someone in a jail cell all the time conveniently located near their base). Jail cell scenes get old after a while. I'm glad Steve is gone. Wasn't Steve the name of that pizza cutter that killed pizzas in that old snl sketch? Or was Steve the name of the pizza that got killed? I never can remember that. Anybody know what I'm talking about?

Oooooooooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhh nooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

Posted by: Firefly Aug 20th 2004, 10:44 PM

Loved that whole "Steve" thing. Too bad they killed him though.

Posted by: Aquila Aug 20th 2004, 10:44 PM

Lol! I think Steve should be the new commercial spokesman for SG-A! Or perhaps president? Really though, he really started to freak me out!

This episode's acting was superb, especially the emotional parts.

Perhaps Atlantis will be able to figure something out to destroy the Wraith through the knowledge they gained there?

Posted by: FifthElement Aug 20th 2004, 11:19 PM

Hello All. First Post!

Good Episode. At least one of these shows is leaving the base again.
Would have liked more McKay but it didn't suffer without him.

One question though. No one thought to make this drug in bullet form yet?
Why inject it when this seems so obvious?

Intially yea, they were trying to make themselves immune to the Wraith.
But the after seeing that the stuff kills them no one even suggested making
a weapon form it?

ps. R.I.P. Steve

Posted by: ColonelJackO'NeillRocks Aug 20th 2004, 11:56 PM

The episode was going fine until Weir opened her mouth:

"But the rules of the Geneva Conference state....."



You're in another GALAXY!!!!! The Wraith have no idea what a Geneva is, let alone the human rights laws of the NATO superpowers! My god, how dense of a statement was that.

Started off good (after "Affinity", I couldn't wait for this ep to start) and then slowly died much like Steve towards the end.

Overall: 5.

Col. Rocks out.

Posted by: Starfire086 Aug 21st 2004, 12:51 AM

For some reason, I found it really hard to pay attention to this episode.

Anyway, in short, Weir is still an idiot (who gives a rip about the Geneva Convention in another freaking galaxy?! and she didn't expect that she'd have to make tough decisions? please.), Beckett rocks, scottish accents are foxy (all accents are foxy), and Steve-O was a bit melodramatic, which reminded me very much of the old familiar baddies, the Goa'uld.

I'm done.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 21st 2004, 1:08 AM

Wow. That episode was amazing....Stargate died in SG1 and is reborn in Atlantis, it seems.
This episode *really* rung of classic SG1. They went through the gate, met a new race, explored possibilities, dealt with their own problems, and...the ending really took me by surprise. I didn't quite think it would end on such a sad note, but....When I saw the end credit come up, my heart skipped a beat...I wasn't quite expecting such a strong performance...
I thought this weeks episode of SG1 was good, and honestly thought SG1 would beat Atlantis this week but...wow, Atlantis "pwnd" SG1 yet again. This episode, IMO, was amazing.
It started off a little slow, but as the episode slowly morphed from a noble intent to save a peoples and then began getting out of control...It really took me in.
The acting was great, the storyline was great....this episode was really great, and it definitely went up and beyond SG1 average quality.

BTW: I think they should have used Weir when experimenting with the Wraith drug. If it worked, great! If not, no big loss. Either way shes finally gone! I mean, geneva conventions...??? Argh! Not expecting to make big decisions?!?!! Your in another GALAXY for ---- sake! Your the leader of a small expedition team thats fighting to stay alive, wtf do you mean you didnt expect to make big decisions?!

94/100 - Minus a few points for the slow beginning. This is the best Atlantis episode so far.

This episode sucked me in and would not let go. If you liked SG1 for the reasons I did (thought provoking stories, great acting, exploration, etc) then you MUST NOT miss this episode.

Posted by: Raz Aug 21st 2004, 4:16 AM

I thought it was a reasonably good ep, had hints of SG-1 in e.g. the other side and season 6's 'cure'. Not the best ep but worth getting 6/10. I can't believe Steve is dead!

Posted by: Firefly Aug 21st 2004, 8:58 AM

Oh I know....that whole Geneva convention comment...I was like You gotta be kidding me! WHO CARES!

Posted by: ted_simple Aug 21st 2004, 10:06 AM

Posted by: RJLCyberPunk Aug 21st 2004, 10:28 AM

That ep. was pretty good I'd say, they are finally settliing in and exploring the galaxy and meeting new civilizations as for the rehashing of subjects common people. the same thing has been said of SG-1 when they made similar eps saying that they were rehashs of eps in ST. But they always managed to do it in a new and refreshing angle and they managed it once again.
I honestly don't understand where the script writters wnat to go with Weir though, she seems increasingly troubled by her responsabilities, maybe shell step down and work in what she does best mediate conflicts between cultures in worlds that may have that problem.
Just thinking?
Unlike other fans I dont blame Torri Higinson for the character faults, she does a good job of portraying what the script demands of the character.

Posted by: That Chevron Guy Aug 21st 2004, 10:57 AM

This episode wasent bad, but, am i the only one who is getting really annoyed and p-o'ed a seeing other alien cultures in SG-A and SG-1 using WWII German KAR-98's, American M-1 Garands, and Russian AK-47's????????? and dressing nearly identical to us?????? come on, when i want to see alien i really want to see an pure alien culture not Alien-Humans.



Oh, and OMG! They killed Steve!

Posted by: Drizzt's Syn Aug 21st 2004, 11:50 AM

Posted by: Azrael Tepes Aug 21st 2004, 4:58 PM

I was hoping we'd get a few more steve cracks before his demise. Oh, well. Maybe they'll catch another one and call him Bill......or toss Weir through the Space-gate.....both are good.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 21st 2004, 5:04 PM

Posted by: fahadwajid Aug 21st 2004, 5:17 PM

it was good thing they killed steve this way atleast he was usefull as he was not going to talk and it was geting booring with shepard and steve having the same converstaion.

the scientist should not have died but should have defected and joined SG Atlantis like jonas to help them against the wraith.

the ending was a little quick for me, not all the questions answered but a strong ending.

overall a great episode, i think one of the best so far.

by the way i just paid atteention to the Stargate Atlantis's starting score(Music), can any one tell me where i can get it in mp3 or on cd.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 21st 2004, 5:24 PM

Posted by: FifthElement Aug 21st 2004, 6:24 PM

Posted by: Count Aug 21st 2004, 7:19 PM

Why is everyone bitching about Weir mentioning the Geneva Convention.

Remember, as soon as the humans in Atlantis stop sticking to their moral and ethical guidlines, they become as bad as the wraith. Would the wraith hesitate to use a human as a guniea pig? No. Humans should, that's all Weir was doing.

It's the same with any other law or rule, if the Atlantis team is in another galaxy, is it legal for one to murder the other? Is it legal to perform acts of terrorism in the city? No, then why should treating prisoners unethically be any different?

The episode was a good one all round, character building (lack of McKay was disappointing though), and it was mainly dealing with the moral and ethical issues of using biological warfare against an enemy, as an act of revenge or desperation.

Posted by: Cackles Aug 21st 2004, 7:35 PM

If I repeat anything anyone else said I apologise but I cant really read this thread in full jus now ...

GREAT episode, kicked ass, I didnt expect steve to be teh one on teh table ... aaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH

THEY KILLED STEVE!

YOU BASTARDS!

so many different roads it could go ... Sheppards right though, screw em and Geneva what? FFS! Get a grip, geneva convention lmao ...

yea Scots dude speaks different but I hear him and love the accuracy ... someone gets to write their own lines methinks Go US ... us not U ... S ... oh forget it you twat ...

Posted by: Ehzarhorden Aug 22nd 2004, 12:07 AM

Someone in the chat meantioned about having Sheppard and Steve in a Slash relationship. I almost spilled my fruit juice on the keyboard LMAO.

Posted by: Mental Case Aug 22nd 2004, 1:20 AM

I wasn't that keen on this episode. I'm not quite sure why, I think part of it may be the fact Its easy to tell something was going to go wrong, and they were not going to back down using the drug anyway.. so a lot was predictable. Although I didn't know how things were going to go wrong until that person died, and the 50% thing I didn't know either so it wasn't too predictable..

But the whole dialogie in this ep seemed rather dull, there was not really much interesting conversations or interaction. I liked the bit where the wraith was named steve by sheppard but other than that It wasn't that enjoyable to watch.

I still cant quite put my finger on what exactly seemed wrong though from one viewing at least. Perhaps part of it is the lack of collision, there was no illusion of threat, or fear conveyed by the actors, the whole human rights, ethical thing, and the dying of people was meant to seem like some conflict but the actors or the script did not succeed in making it feel like a real threat in my opinion.

Posted by: Count Aug 22nd 2004, 1:24 AM

Tretonin anyone?

Posted by: Lord Malice Aug 22nd 2004, 1:48 AM

The only thing I realy liked about this episode was the "STEVE" thing. And Sheppards battle of wills with the wraith. Dr. Wier invoking the geneva convention was ridiculous. An Sheppards reply about the wraiths not attending the convention was right on target.

Posted by: IndyJan Aug 22nd 2004, 1:52 AM

This episode was intriguing for me. I could see the moral issues facing Beckett, McKay and Weir. I could also see the fact, that since they had awokened the Wraith, they wanted to find something to help fight them. Knowing what I do about WWII, and the cleansing by Hitler for one group of people, I could appreciate, what the Hoffans were trying to do. They did not want to be culled and wiped out by the Wraith, hence the almost unanimous vote to innoculate. This show brought up a lot of issues, people being guinea pigs for new drugs. People sacrificing themselves for the good of their people. Using a prisoner to esperiment on, was another one. All in all, a very intruiging episode.

Posted by: infra172 Aug 22nd 2004, 1:52 AM

Posted by: FreshPez Aug 22nd 2004, 2:17 AM

I quite enjoyed the episode. While I disagree with Weir here, I've liked her, and she's certainly a better character then Janeway. Her bringing up the Geneva convention is something an international treaty negotiator like herself would do, and you understand she did allow it. If I were sheppard I would have mentioned that the Wraith haven't signed the Geneva convention however.

I would have enjoyed seeing the debate if the Hoffans had given them a convicted prisoner to test the drug on. I'd do it in a heartbeat of course. That's always been my idea in SG-1 whenever they need a host for a symbiote.

Of course the Hoffans problem is that as soon as the Wraith discover what they've done, they're going to nuke the planet, not just cull the place. But I understand why they want to fight back. Some sort of vaccine (killing have the users or not) would be the best way to fight, as long as you spread it around far enough so that the wraith are starved out.

Probably would have been great if the atlantis team hadn't woken them up. Oops.

So I really liked the episode. As a long time startrek sufferer, it's a pleasure to see realistic characters in realistic situations. If this were a startrek episode, they would have argued about the testing for 40 minutes and then technobabbled their way out.

One other point. This is the second time we've had a civilian character talk about how he can't be ordered around. First off, you'd think he'd have to follow wiers orders. Secondly, I certainly hope they have some conflict between military and civilian. Is Sheppard second in command after Wier? Is Weir governor for life? Does the ponytail scientist get tossed through the gate someday (I wanted to marry Weir after that).

Posted by: Count Aug 22nd 2004, 2:45 AM

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 22nd 2004, 4:09 AM

No, but then again the Japanese weren't going out trying to exterminate every non-Japanese person in the universe

Posted by: mithwriter Aug 22nd 2004, 10:21 AM

I thought this ep was pretty good.
One of the things I'm noticing is that the Atlantis team is still trying understand how the Wraith cullings affect the cultures/planets they visit. This isn't something as simple as having a Goa'uld enslave your race and force you to worship them as Gods. The emotional/psychological....and socialogical effects of these 'harvestings' is really interesting to see.

For example, this week it was a race that has spent generations trying to make advancements in a defense against the Wraith despite their civilization being destroyed repeatedly, and then suddenly handed the 'magic bullet' they were looking for.

The most interesting thing was that, when not only given the tech they needed but the possiblity of having something added as well, they were suddenly not content any more with having a 'self-defence' against the Wraith. No, that wasn't good enough, not if it could be converted into a weapon that would actually kill them instead.

At least Sheppard tried to explain how dangerous that could be to them, but these people tossed all their conservative ways out the window in exchange for something 'better' and 'faster'. The fact that, as a people, they willing accept a %50 mortality rate in the testing...possibly in the entire civilization... is astonishing.

This simply fact says more about their 'new' thinking than anything else. Sheppard seemed a bit unease at that too, and I can't help but wonder if he would've authorized Steve's 'feeding' if he had known it would kill the Wraith.

Just a smart, smart ep...

Posted by: RJLCyberPunk Aug 22nd 2004, 1:39 PM

Posted by: SG1Papa Aug 22nd 2004, 4:59 PM

Posted by: nmarroul Aug 23rd 2004, 1:11 AM

Posted by: Ehzarhorden Aug 23rd 2004, 1:44 AM

Posted by: Cuokuo Aug 23rd 2004, 2:52 AM

Rather than letting half the population die, why didnt they give everyone a bottle of the stuff and say, take only when ur about to be taken by a wraith. In the mean time, they can keep working on a solution to the problem.

Anywaz, i tihnk it was still an alright ep, cant wait for next weeks thou

Posted by: Raxor Aug 23rd 2004, 3:01 AM

Good episode ***
love the 'steve the wraith' pretty darn funny. glad hes gone, wont be too hard for us to get annother one lol

Posted by: infra172 Aug 23rd 2004, 6:19 AM

Posted by: Cackles Aug 23rd 2004, 9:16 AM

Geneva convention does not apply to animals, livestock or aliens.

I think you also have to be human and from a country of EARTH.

Wraith should be treated like a pack of dogs with mutated rabies. They should be captured and experimented on indescriminately until a cure is found while at the same time wiping them out. If a cure isnt found before they are all wiped out, who cares problem solved anyways ...

Posted by: seymour Aug 23rd 2004, 10:38 AM

Posted by: Regelos Aug 23rd 2004, 12:57 PM

I personally felt this episode was rushed they would goto a commercial and a ton of stuff would have happened and then they'd be moving in a tottally different direction.. I was really looking foward to this episode but what I was left with I found severly dissapointing because they had such such potential they left untapped.

Posted by: Chris Edmund Aug 23rd 2004, 6:12 PM

Posted by: Cackles Aug 23rd 2004, 6:29 PM

Posted by: linda_lol Aug 23rd 2004, 6:36 PM

This episode turned my sights onto Dr. Beckett. Infact, the Doc is just a Scottish Dr. Fraiser! lol! I kinda found it strange thought that that whole planet practically voted to kill themselves. Not to mention how it ended. You always expect them to win..... but this time they lost in another way.

Posted by: CitizenK Aug 23rd 2004, 9:18 PM

Okay, watched this episode and really really need to get something off my chest.... <breathing>

What is with Major Sheppard's hair !!! He's supposed to be an officer and a gentlemen for crying out loud. What's with the "just got out of bed" hairstyle ! No way would that be considered acceptible by military standards. no no no... how did the makeup department let him go on to the set with out dragging a comb through that mop ?

Oh, that was just soooo distracting. It made me nutso ! <breathing>

Okay, that's out of my system, on the whole this wasn't a bad episode. In general, I thought it was a really good showcase for Carson Beckett. Who is really growing on me as a character. And I am terribly disappointed that he is still NOT in the opening credits!

But, I believe what disappointed me was the story. Not that it was a bad one. No, the problem is that it's a story that I've already seen before... example, it reminded me of the Stargate episodes "Past and Present" and "Cure". Didn't Daniel fall in love with Linea the same way Beckett was falling for the Doctor (forgot her name) ? So, you've got a lesser evolved society that's created a serum that might be able to save their people from extinction. Sure sounds similar to me.

Also, the title "Poisoning the Well" was a give away. How could you not know what was going to happen with a title like that ? It told the whole story. I thought so anyway. Because wasn't the whole point of innoculating the people with the serum to "poison the well" for the Wraiths ? Because that's what happened. Not only did it protect some of the people from the Wraiths, it also created the poison to kill them. Of course, we don't know how that serum would work on the humans at Atlantis or Teyla's people.

But, kinda bummed they off'd Steve. That was too bad. Was being to enjoy having him in lockup. yet, you sort of figured that once they found the correct protein sequence that they'd need to test it out and Steve just happened to be in the wrong place and the wrong time.

so... all in all, it wasn't a bad episode, I'm just disappointed it wasn't an original story.

my favorite scene ? it has to be when they bring the good doctor in the puddle jumper through the gate to the facility. there they are walking down the corridor when they start making the Dr McCoy (ST) references. Loved the line "He's Dr McCoy in real life." couldn't help but start laughing at that. Beckett sure seems alot like him. You know, competent doctor who hates having his molecules scattered across the universe.

Really enjoying Beckett and McKay so far. Having doubts about Dr Weir. Will like Major Sheppard more once he does something with his hair.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 23rd 2004, 9:38 PM

Posted by: Dialogue62 Aug 24th 2004, 12:01 AM

It seems like Sheppard borrowed too much from Weir and McKay's personalities this episode. I can understand the good doctor being upset (the "do no harm" scene) but Sheppard's attitude was uncalled for.

It's true that he isn't the seasoned veteran that O'Neill is, but his disbelief of their "by any means" solution was well... unbelieveable. Anyone who has studied history and particularly military history would find many similar instances where a culture chose a course that would reduce it or even destroy it, rather than submit to a more horrible fate.

Frankly, I think it was the SG Team that made the wrong decision. If this innoculation were passed on to any world that wants it, it would create indecision and doubt among the wraith. Something it looks like they have never had to deal with. And, because the deadly effects aren't instantaneous, their ships would be several days out from the planet when the deaths started.

Comment on its use as a weapon: Although it doesn't kill instantly, at least it might keep the bugger down after it's been hit once or twice.

Final note: Goodbye Steve. Next time they get a Wraith, I hope they name him Kenny. I'd love to see Sheppard and McKay torn to some researcher and say, "Hey, you killed Kenny. You B_____d!"

Posted by: bigjohn_1972 Aug 24th 2004, 6:51 AM

It seems they took their attitude because if they didn't the series would be over too fast.
They have a viable means of defence from culling from the wraith, let the various worlds decide if they want to take the chance on using it.
Or, how about the good doctor do some more work and try to make a version that doesn't kill half the people who try it!

It just seems they took the easy way out, they had written themselves into a corner as it were.

Posted by: CitizenK Aug 24th 2004, 7:56 AM

Posted by: FreshPez Aug 24th 2004, 2:06 PM

First off, I agree about McKay's hair. It's too hollywood, not military. However, as long as he acts like a miliitary man, I'll let it go. Does anyone know what his accent is? What part of the US I guess.

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 24th 2004, 2:28 PM

[Q]If this innoculation were passed on to any world that wants it, it would create indecision and doubt among the wraith.[/Q]


Not really: They'd just kill EVERYONE on the Planet. I mean, this innoculation doesn't prevent against tactical nukes launched from space, does it?

[Q}o, there is no way to know (without proper testing) if the serum will have the same effects if used by the SGA. As it was, the serum killed 50% of the Haukin people.[/Q]

But the small Atlantis team hardly has the resources to devote to researching the compatibility with the various human races of the world, and it'd be extremly difficult to test. And killin 50% of all people given to it...cure is worse than the disease.

[]But, I think given time, Beckett probably could find a way to create a serum that would have a lower morality rate.[/Q]

Well, IRL it would probably take many years, and thats with a ton of funding and researching and a ton of people.
One man...It'd be near impossible.

[Q]once the damage was done to that society, what did the SGA do ??? they left. They left exactly the same way they left in Childhood's End.[/Q]

In Childhoods End their socieyt was changed for the better. They didnt have to stay and "fix" anything because there was nothing to fix.
In this ep, there was quite a bit that went wrong.

Posted by: 1969 Aug 24th 2004, 3:02 PM

It was an okay episode I liked the interacion btwn dr becket and allisson hossack character. But Mckay is getting to be an ass again, I was starting to like him, now im yoyoing.
Oh yes, we must tell them that it was our fault for awakening the wraith but shhhh, lets not tell the other people we had taken their only defense against the wraith(childhoods end) from them and then returned it and f*cked it up. I cant believe he even dared to say thaty to Sheppard. What a hipocrite

Posted by: StillLoveJeffWebber Aug 24th 2004, 6:22 PM

Help...Friday came and went...I thought SG1:8x07 and SGA:1x07 would be repeated tonight. Can't find them.

I'm on DirectTV east coast with local. Does anyone know if those eps are being shown again before this coming Friday?

Alice

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 24th 2004, 8:21 PM

Off topic:

Whos "Jeff Webber"?

Posted by: StillLoveJeffWebber Aug 24th 2004, 8:30 PM

He's a character that RDA played on General Hospital

Posted by: SlavsyaRossiya Aug 24th 2004, 8:35 PM

Oh! I watch that show (which might explain why I, surprisingly enough, gave Affinity a more positive review than most people).

But I've never seen O'Neill in it.

Posted by: Pitry Aug 25th 2004, 1:44 AM

Posted by: Gunfighter Aug 25th 2004, 9:25 PM

You either need a dictionary or some typing lessons. Both are fairly cheap.

I was kind of confused about the episode- until Dr. Beckett showed surprise that the serum actually killed the Wraith, I thought that was what it did all along. Producers could have made that a little more clear. About the Geneva convention, I don't know too much about it, so I'll leave the "legality" of the issues to people better qualified to talk about it. However, I have no moral objection to weapons testing on the Wraith, especially if it involves a possible cure. I view the Wraith as a disease, nothing more than a sentient form of bacteria or virus. Like today's islamic jihadists, they're not going to be impressed with our sensitivity; they're just going to take advantage of it. When it comes down to the justice of man, Hammurabi said it best. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Anything else is unfair.

As far as the innoculation goes, though, the Hoffans(?) failed to realize that while their serum might win them a battle, it would surely cost them the war. Strategically, they achieved nothing besides becoming the top target on the Wraith's most wanted list. "Victory at any cost" is the only way to ensure the future, but the Hoffans goofed. If all the Hoffans die in a Wraith orbital bombardment, the last ditch defense is lost for the rest of the galaxy. Swimming in a river of stink with no floaties on...

Posted by: Pitry Aug 26th 2004, 10:35 AM

Posted by: taujin Aug 27th 2004, 10:13 AM

This is the best episode of Atlantis so far, IMO. I enjoyed the plot and the character development. The few nitpicks I had are already mentioned by MYOB and I agree with ColonelJackO'NeillRocks that Weir's character development didn't move forward in this epiosde. The producers could have left her out of this episode with no loss of storyline.

I thought that the Hoffans were a little too eager to try the "vaccine", especially when they seemed to be such a patient race - meticulously recording each generation's work and taking hundreds of years to develop the serum until SG-A came alone.

I'm sure there is a vote somewhere about how we feel about killing off Steve the Wraith. I'm going to go look for that. Steve's arrogance about the Wraith's vengeance on the humans was starting to wear thin on me, so the shock on his face when he realized he was dying was sweet revenge.

Anyway, it was a good show. I hope to see more episodes of this caliber.

TauJin

Posted by: CitizenK Sep 2nd 2004, 7:38 AM

Posted by: IndyJan Sep 3rd 2004, 12:57 AM

Posted by: toddy67 Sep 5th 2004, 5:10 PM

Posted by: CitizenK Sep 6th 2004, 11:39 AM

Posted by: Christy Sep 16th 2004, 4:31 AM

Posted by: IndyJan Sep 16th 2004, 9:18 AM

Posted by: LoneWolf84 Sep 25th 2004, 6:18 PM

Getting us back ontopic....

I just rewatched this ep yesterday, it's honestly one of the best eps imo. Great acting, and really makes you think. "Victory at all costs". Kinda makes you think about current events...

Posted by: soma_momma Oct 30th 2004, 12:01 AM

This ep just re-aired. About the ethical dilemmas examined: The Atlantis crew seem pretty self-righteous for a group that has been involved in lots of mayhem already.
While the intended parallel between the Hasans and the Nazis is clear enough, their overall demeanor is much more reminiscent of Kvorkian right-to-die folks.

The most interesting plot point is (to me) that only if all humans in the universe take the vaccine will the Wraith be starved to death, and yet, by doing so, half of the humans will likely die.

Posted by: LuvThatShanks Oct 30th 2004, 5:39 PM

This is the first episode of SGA I enjoyed thoroughly. The menace of the Wraith is finally underlined by an entire societies willingness to risk all for a chance - albeit slim - of defeating the Wraith in any manner.

The reprocussions of the reawakening of the Wraith are finally felt on a larger scale and "Steve" actually scared the heck out of me. Before this I've found the way the Wraith look to be entirely too cartoonish in my opinion. However, Steve actually was creepy as all heck without that "mwhahaha" sort of evil. Even when he is stomping about his cell frustrated and starving the over-the-top costuming and body language finally clicked for me. Pity he's dead but we need more Wraith like this - ones with a disdain, fury, arrogance, etc.

I think it also worked because Steve's incredible evil is contrasted with the quiet determination, hope and ultimately desperation of the female doctor helping Beckett. She is bright, she's engaging and she has the guts to take the vaccine also. Guts born out of sheer terror and a determination to try and make a difference. Ultimately it is a move that will damn her entire planet but last night it finally hit home for me via the show how screwed the Pegasus galaxy is once the Wraith gather strength.

This was a great episode in my opinion. It never lost my interest. I like steely-eyed Ford (as opposed to always-grinning or vaguely-perplexed Ford) guarding "Steve".

I do however think that whereas the actress shows as much strength as she is allowed in the role that they miscast Weir badly. Jessica Steen (I believe that it her name) on SG-1 as Weir was great but this actress just isn't working for me.

Sheppard finally seemed large and in charge to me. Plus I felt that all of the actors did a really good job with the material. McKay, Beckett, Ford, heck even Teyla did well in this episode.

But unless they really pull something miraculous of their hat with Weir (Wier?) she just seems off somehow. The entire line about not realizing that she would be facing these kind of decisions is interesting - after all she thought she was being given command of an exploration group and didn't realize she was going to be facing an incredibly powerful and nasty enemy.

So a lot of the actors really seemed to come into their parts in a more definitive manner in this episode with one exception - I just don't think the actress playing Wier is being given enough range to ever be engaging at this point. Seriously, what the heck do her stage directions look like? "Look grave. Great. Now in this scene make sure you look even more serious. That's great. Now, if it isn't too much of a stretch we want you to look angry too? Great!" Oy.

They really do need to find a way to give her a bit of range because she's an emotionally inaccessible character at this point. It doesn't help that she always looks as if her favorite aunt just died. Severity thy name is Weir (or possibly Wier).

Anyway, sorry for the ramble but for the first time I'm really looking forward to another episode of Atlantis rather than saying "I should give Atlantis another try I guess" at the end of Stargate SG-1. This episode finally hooked me.

Posted by: dorien Oct 30th 2004, 6:26 PM

Until now, Major Sheppard has failed to impress me in any way. But this episode changed that. Particularly his interaction with Steve.

Posted by: Zero Kasharion Nov 8th 2004, 12:24 AM

Eh First post.. xD

Noone seems to have brought this up .. but did anyoen notice "Steves" outfit.. i mean.. wow the wriath are greatly dressed.. least he was. erm anywho if thiers stores that sell Sga outfits a link would be helpfull ^^' i sure hope some cosplay sites come out with that outfit..

Anywho,

the episode was great, really dissapointed they killed steve.. he pwned o_o

Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 23rd 2004, 5:34 PM

Why kill 'Steve'? I thought he was more sinister than the Wraith Queen. A well written story that let Dr Beckett develop slightly. Cant believe how arrogant the Chancellor was though. Why did he believe every world with humans would want to take that drug.

Dr Weir seems to be even less of a role over the last few episodes. She was barely in one scene. The writers also need to include Lt Ford more. He's pretty much the military second in command, but he rarely contributes to the episodes.

Posted by: stargatesweetie Nov 24th 2004, 5:26 PM

A great double bill last night combined with Covenant on SG.
I do agree that the writers have taken a chance killing off Steve. They could have drawn out his "visit" to Atlantis a little longer, but I suppose that this episode pretty much summed up the Wraith and their attitude to human life- Steve had fulfilled his purpose in the storyline.
I was a little surprised at the end when the vote was in and 96% of the population had agreed to take the drug-given it's rather unfortunate side-effects for most, but then desperate times call for desperate measures. If the Wraith had discovered that the humans had infected themselves surely they would just kill everyone anyway (via air strikes or just shooting-not feeding).
oh and I have to say that Weir is getting increasingly annoying. Example, quoting the Geneva convention when discussing with Sheppard using Steve as a "guinea pig" for the drug. For pitys sake woman, the Wraith "farm" humans and think nothing of destroying civilisations. There seems little point in inviting them for a cup tea to come to an "amicable agreement"! I said that I would give her the benefit of the doubt but I dislike the character immensely

Posted by: ali Nov 26th 2004, 5:35 AM

I really liked this episode. It was actually quite scary in places, especially when they put that guy in the cell with 'Steve' and he just lunged at him..oh, that was horrible.
I agree that Sheppard didn't get anything useful out of him. I mean, he could have asked something a lot more beneficial than how many hives there are. I did find the way he treated Steve quite amusing though, it was a bit of comic relief in a dark episode.
I'm really not sure that risking that man's life (even though he did consent) was entirely right. Especially as they didn't get any useful information. I would have expected more of the Atlantis team, especially after the first few episodes.

On the plus side, I'm really glad that Beckett had so much more to do in this episode. He was so funny when he met Perna, and then Rodney introduced himself afterwards and she just looked at him like he was a freak
It was so sad when Perna died, the actors really did a good job in that scene. I can't believe that the government carried on giving the vaccine after so many people died. It would be good to have them in a later episode, maybe to see how badly they destroyed themselves.

I'm really pleased with Atlantis so far this season, in my opinion there hasn't been a bad episode yet. But get Paul Mcgillion in the credits!!!

Posted by: invisible painting Nov 26th 2004, 10:42 AM

Well yes it was a good episode like most of the show, but the atlantis team apart from scotty and sheppard were barely in the episode.
And look at that, they reused ANOTHER actor in the show!! I should make a game out of it, 'guess which sg1 actor will show up in atlantis' for each episode! It could be fun!! The ending was glum yet good, it was the right ending to do i felt for the episode and made it better. And i liked the fact that scotty was in the episode a lot as well (btw scottys the doctor, i cant remember his name and cant be bothered to look it up) It developed his character and hes a good character, but ali i dont think that he will ever get onto the credits, hes just the doctor, not part of the team, like fraiser, who was never on the credits either, although i agree he should be i like him and hes a good part of the show, hes a big character as well.
And it was a good episode for me, i liked it and i give it:

7/10

Theres been better theres worse as well though. Atlantis is promising and good.

Posted by: 38 Minutes Dec 16th 2004, 11:43 AM

This episode was ok, maybe they killed steve because

Posted by: JonasFan Dec 20th 2004, 10:56 AM

I don't know what Weir's basis for applying the Geneva convention to aliens is. There is no precedent. Didn't the SG-1 team conduct experiments on Goa'uld in the past?

However the suggestion that "eating humans" qualifies you for whatever torture we can think up (including medical experimentation) is unreasonable. The Wraith are not unique in human experience; we have encountered other creatures which kill and eat humans. You don't have to look in the Pegasus galaxy to find them either, your local zoo probably has a least a couple of lions and tigers.


What was the big moral dilemma with the drug? They know it was experimental, they know it has a kill rate of about 50% and they know that the Wraith are likely to be annoyed by it. If, knowing all that, they still choose to take it then great; that is their business.

Posted by: BrandonTheGreat Jan 13th 2005, 9:36 PM

I wonder if they will return to Hoff in a future episode.

Anyways, a rather dark plot to this one. Seeing how Beckett's new friend dies. But this drug brings up the biggest moral dilemma so far in the show.

Posted by: KoKi Jan 31st 2005, 3:42 PM

how stupied can they be.......... the wraith will wipe them out

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 1st 2005, 6:11 AM

how stupied can they be.......... the wraith will wipe them out

Posted by: cosmos Apr 27th 2005, 9:13 PM

I just show this episode of Atlantis which is my first not counting the pilot. It was contained on the Stargate SG-1 Season 8 DVD. Anyway, I have to say that I was not very impressed by it. I thought it was obvious and slow-going.

I just wanted to ask whether or not this was a typical Atlantis episode.

Obviously the majority here has found it very good episode but that may have to do with the fact that you have followed the team from the start.

So is this a typical episode of Atlantis?
help me draw a picture of this new series in my mind.!

Posted by: Dafmeister Apr 28th 2005, 8:13 AM

So is this a typical episode of Atlantis?
help me draw a picture of this new series in my mind.!

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Apr 28th 2005, 2:16 PM

The Drug is bad idea... It won't save anyone and why ??

From Wraiths point of view the humans are not enemies of the Wraith but their
cattle and the drug is not a weapon against the Wraith but it is a plague spoiling
their cattle. And those peoples think the Wraith might just leave them alone

IF you would have cattle and they would be the only food source you have and
you would find out that there is a group which have become infencted with some
disease which makes them poisonous for you...

Would you allow those infected animals live knowing that they are already lost
to you and by allowing them to live you would only risk infection to rest of your
cattle as well... Which would inevitably lead to your death because you would
have nothing left to eat... ??

Posted by: Christy May 1st 2005, 3:53 AM

Well, living in the country surrounded by livestock...
we do everything we can to protect our livestock but...like there are some things which are poisonous to them, like eating wheat.

I think that the wraith would kill off the whole planet if they knew they were affected with something which could kill them.

I still love Carson Beckett...and i'm glad that he has been in most of the episodes so far because he is a funnier character

Posted by: General Jen May 2nd 2005, 8:48 PM

i liked this episode alot 8.5/10

the hoffens have no idea what they are getting themselves into, when the wraith find out they have a wepon the hoffens will be no more and any other planet the hoff have been in contact with.

i was sad when perna died especially because her and carson were falling for each other

i liked it how the focused more on carson so we could get to know him better (he is a fantastic character and played suberbly), they still had sheperd in a bit witch is cool cause he is still my favourite, he was great with steve.

Posted by: Christy May 5th 2005, 6:59 AM

It's funny though...because he's not in the credits you wouldn't really expect to have an episode which is focused quite a bit on him.
But i find it funny how Weir isn't really a big focus in the series...but then again Don S. Davis wasn't in SG-1 a lot so i guess it evens out that reason.

Posted by: Lord Joe Aug 26th 2005, 4:28 AM

When I first watched this episode I thought it was a bit boring but having watched it again a few times I now thinkthat it actually a really cool episode and has brilliant character development. it also shows what centuries of Wraith cullings will do to a civilisation. Great episode 8/10

Posted by: Steve17 Sep 9th 2005, 12:46 AM

This episode is one of my fav episodes. I guess thats why i chose the name steve17, because steve is in it.

Posted by: starryeyes Nov 11th 2005, 12:58 PM

Killing 50% of your population. The stakes are too high in my opinion. They are a hard-headed people or at least the leader is. I didn't mind this episode. Certainly better than the last one. It sounds like these people have had it. Too bad.
I'm glad they killed Steve though. I had no sympathy for him.

Posted by: blackbelt83 Jan 30th 2006, 1:01 AM

I thought this ep. was funny I liked how he named the wraith steve that was good. I dont see why dr. wire would have a any reservations about using a wraith like that. they are just looking for revenge they are angery and want to get back at the wairth but shepard is wright as soon as the wairth find out they will just distroy them from space.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 27th 2007, 2:20 AM

QUOTE(KillerMarv @ May 31st 2006, 7:37 AM)

That was exactly my point actually... Since the Wraith didn't attend the Geneva convention, their prisoners may not be treated according to its agreements.

And I really think that is a good thing! At this point, they know that the Wraith cannot be trusted, so all bets are off, or should be.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 27th 2007, 11:19 AM

QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jul 27th 2007, 3:50 AM)

Season 4 spoiler:

» Click to Show Spoiler «

Apparently there is going to be another alliance with the Wraith. There aren't any details on why the alliance is going to be made just that there will be a number of Wraith ships involved too.

Okay, this truly does not make sense to me. I have to ask why?

» Click to Show Spoiler «

Is the new enemy supposed to be worse than the Wraith?

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 30th 2007, 12:40 AM

QUOTE(Dafmeister @ Jul 27th 2007, 12:28 PM)

» Click to Show Spoiler «

The new race has been described as a wildcard so far. I get the impression that they are neither ally nor enemy but try to take whatever they want from whoever they meet. Maybe the alliance with the Wraith is more to do with the Asurans or Michael. The details of the alliance that will take place haven't been made clear yet. All TPTB have said is that only some of the Wraith agree to the alliance with Atlantis.

Okay, this makes sense

» Click to Show Spoiler «

because of what Michael is doing in creating his own super wraith soldiers.

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