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Stargate Information Archive _ Atlantis Season 3 _ 319 - Vengeance
Posted by: Arcady Jan 27th 2007, 4:11 PM
Season 3, Episode 19 - Vengeance
Air date: 2007
Michael returns, and his latest science project means a world of hurt to the Atlantis team.
http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s3.shtml#319 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15213 | Teaser
(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)
This thread will open after the episode has aired.
Posted by: atlantisguy5000 Jan 30th 2007, 1:09 AM
Wow what a creepy episode! Michael came back and was creating a race of "super wraith" bug things. We will defiantly hear from him next season. All in all pretty enjoyable but a few jump scenes that startled me. Michael had used the people from the super volcano planet who settled on a new world for his experiments. He let the wraith bug feed on them then altered the eggs to create these monsters. Sheppard was right they do sort of look like the creature in Alien. They even move through the ducts of the creepy underground abandoned facility.
Wow how many times have I said creepy in this post. But that's probably the best way to sum it up.
A good episode. Can't wait for the season finale next week!
Posted by: Sibylle Jan 30th 2007, 3:28 PM
Nice eppisode, but I wonder why these superbugs are called so super!?
They are slow, and make noise all the time. A wraith is fast and has agility, but these bugs are just as stupid and slow as in a cheap horrormovie.....
They should be insectlike, fast and 1 hit 1 kill with there strength and claws. I wouldn't be afraid for some of these creatures, you can shoot them 1 by 1.
But i understand why the script wrighters did it this way, otherwise McKay Sheppard en Ronan should have been killed by this ultimate bug 
I admit that wouldn't have been better!
So we have a Dart now, and a Cruiser from 3x18 (at bottom of the ocean but it is there). I hope we use it well and not as a mobile bomb to get past there defenses (as in Independence Day).
What i wonder!
Why didn't use Teyla her ability to make contact with Micheal. She mislead a Wraith Queen before! sure she can do some tricks with half a normal wraith like Micheal, but she didn't even try :S
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 30th 2007, 6:04 PM
Well, this a was a very good episode. I'm gonna start with saying that it did remind me of a lot of movies like Alien, Predator, Alien vs. Predator... Those creature were really great pets, and with such a rapid development, I guess that they explain how the Wraith got to high numbers in the first place, because I think they have similar rates of growth.
Michael now looks like a potential great enemy for Atlantis, a third party between us and Wraith with the power to command deadly creatures. Heh, reminds me of Half Life 2 as well...
I give it an 87/100.
Posted by: AntM2209 Jan 30th 2007, 6:17 PM
Nice eppisode, but I wonder why these superbugs are called so super!?
They are slow, and make noise all the time. A wraith is fast and has agility, but these bugs are just as stupid and slow as in a cheap horrormovie.....
They should be insectlike, fast and 1 hit 1 kill with there strength and claws. I wouldn't be afraid for some of these creatures, you can shoot them 1 by 1.
But i understand why the script wrighters did it this way, otherwise McKay Sheppard en Ronan should have been killed by this ultimate bug :P I admit that wouldn't have been better!
So we have a Dart now, and a Cruiser from 3x18 (at bottom of the ocean but it is there). I hope we use it well and not as a mobile bomb to get past there defenses (as in Independence Day).
What i wonder!
Why didn't use Teyla her ability to make contact with Micheal. She mislead a Wraith Queen before! sure she can do some tricks with half a normal wraith like Micheal, but she didn't even try :S
Ye I must agree with you there they are slow and stupid lol.
The way Ronan was firing his gun he could have took them all on. 1 shot in belly and they were dead. It was silly that his gun could kill instantly. Also the P90 should have been more affective against them having all them bullets fired at it.
I thought this episode was good, but ye to much like the alien films.
Also to answer your question about Teyla, they said that it was because he was not fully wraith, she could not make contact as she could with other wraith.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 30th 2007, 6:41 PM
Also to answer your question about Teyla, they said that it was because he was not fully wraith, she could not make contact as she could with other wraith.
No, she said that Michael still has human characteristic, which would explain why she was confused when she sensed his presence.
I was entertained by this ep. I did think of the predator. I can't take credit for thinking of Aliens, because they said it in the show.
Why would Sheppard tell Ronin to set his gun to stun when the other three are firing fully automatic submachine guns.
At the end I thought Sheppard was going to grab Michael too, and take him hostage. I'm glad they left him out there as an enemy, since they killed off Koyla so recently.
We are building quite a fleet. I wonder how we are going to loose it.
Posted by: Revan Jan 30th 2007, 6:51 PM
Kolya.
EEEEP, creepy bug monsters!
I liked this episode, although the monsters reminded me more of a specific Farscape episode than they did of the Alien movies.
Poor super-volcano people... that means Rodney's hott friend is dead. 
Michael is a pretty sweet villain. Good episode.
Posted by: AntM2209 Jan 30th 2007, 7:13 PM
No, she said that Michael still has human characteristic, which would explain why she was confused when she sensed his presence.
Why would Sheppard tell Ronin to set his gun to stun when the other three are firing fully automatic submachine guns.
We are building quite a fleet. I wonder how we are going to loose it.
Ye true, she maybe unable to connect with him, only sense his presence. That maybe why the other wraith don’t like him anymore. He is different from other wraith. Michael makes a good enemy, it will be interesting to see what he does next with his new friends.
Sheppard probably said to Ronan to put it on stun because it could have been a civilian, they did not know what it was. They rely on Ronan a lot to stun people as I only ever see them with the p90s and the pistols. I have not seen them carry any kind of stun guns when they go on off world missions. Unlike sg-1, they carry zats. They could take the wraith stunners tho.
Rodney's friend was really hot!
Also bring back koyla from the dead! He was brilliant.
Posted by: smeghead Jan 30th 2007, 8:52 PM
2 questions When did this ep Air in Canada what time?
and how come its never mentioned in the Program Calander?
Posted by: Rogue Ashrak Jan 31st 2007, 4:03 AM
At the end I thought Sheppard was going to grab Michael too, and take him hostage. I'm glad they left him out there as an enemy, since they killed off Koyla so recently.
Anality strikes again I see
.Also bring back koyla from the dead! He was brilliant.
A nice thought but doesn't seem likely. Unless they play with another AU ep. Which would be a cop out really.
Anyway, back to the ep. Wasn't too bad, but I cant help but think they've sort of regurgitated another SG-1 storyline....do these super-wraith things come across to anyone else as Atlantis's version of the Kull warriors?
And why were they so inconsistent on what it took to take them down? Apparently bullets had practically no effect on the first one, despite massive amounts of gunfire, it still got away. Then later in the ep the things were dropping if Ronan so much as looked at them.....brilliantly done.
Was nice to see Ronan actually use his sword in combat for a change, I don't think we've seen that before, he's usually too busy shooting stuff with his fancy pistol. And the sparring session with Rodney at the beginning was hilarious, you could just tell he was going to smack him again the second he started paying attention to Weir and Sheppard
It's good to see they're setting up more interesting storylines with Michael though. Heck even Teyla got a bit of character work in when she was empathising with him. Who knows, combining the Micheal storyline with the whole Teyla's Wraith DNA thing may be able to give her the development she seems to be lacking.
Posted by: baggers1982 Jan 31st 2007, 9:47 AM
i thought it was a good all rounder, quite a creepy episode compared to what we're used to in stargate. There were a few quirky moments, like ronan disappearing a couple of times and when sheppard poked his head round to have the c4 nearly take his face off.
i think the super wraith did look a little bit cheesy,they would have been better off having them slightly more human like, more intelligent than what they were. it was pretty lame how easy ronan could take them out.
For some reason, ever since reading the spoilers for the season finale episode, i've found all the episodes since to be slightly disappointing, like they haven't lived up to the hype surrounding what is to come. oh well, only a week to go. 
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 31st 2007, 12:34 PM
A nice thought but doesn't seem likely. Unless they play with another AU ep. Which would be a cop out really.
Anyway, back to the ep. Wasn't too bad, but I cant help but think they've sort of regurgitated another SG-1 storyline....do these super-wraith things come across to anyone else as Atlantis's version of the Kull warriors?
That is exactly what I thought. They are developing Michael into a real enemy, with a personality. Just like they did with Ba'al. They turned him to a person who could be smart, and witty, and sometimes come out on top. SGA needs an enemy like that.
For some reason, ever since reading the spoilers for the season finale episode, i've found all the episodes since to be slightly disappointing, like they haven't lived up to the hype surrounding what is to come. oh well, only a week to go.
That's one of the reasons I stopped reading spoilers a couple of years ago, and the show actually got better for me in that time.
Posted by: Pitry Jan 31st 2007, 12:38 PM
Could have lived without the horror movie-esque bits. Horro movies are dumb, and I'm usually rlling my eyes at them - and there was definitely eye rolling at thsi one.
Could have lived without the bug-people-creatures. I don't understand the reasons for introducing them to the story, especially at this point. They add nothing. They arleayd have Asurnas and wraith, what's the point in adding cheesy bug people?
Could have lived without what they did to Michael in here. I dunno. I lloved the Michael storyline so far. thought it added depth to the wratih. But after Submersion adn Vengeance, the wraith are thrown back and back to square one.
I'm not going to even bother bringing up the obvious Carson comments.
I did like - Ronon. Ronon and McKay, specifically - I really enjoy the banter they've been developing int he alst several episodes - but also Ronon, as a whole. Enjopying the scene he told Sheppard they should kill Michael and that no one listened to him the first time he said that, and generally, I thinkt hey're finally hitting pace with teh character. Now, if only the thing would have been as true for Teyla as it is for Ronon....
Bright side. T'was better than last week's, sigh.
Posted by: Revan Jan 31st 2007, 1:04 PM
Anality strikes again I see
.A nice thought but doesn't seem likely. Unless they play with another AU ep. Which would be a cop out really.
Anyway, back to the ep. Wasn't too bad, but I cant help but think they've sort of regurgitated another SG-1 storyline....do these super-wraith things come across to anyone else as Atlantis's version of the Kull warriors?
And why were they so inconsistent on what it took to take them down? Apparently bullets had practically no effect on the first one, despite massive amounts of gunfire, it still got away. Then later in the ep the things were dropping if Ronan so much as looked at them.....brilliantly done.
Was nice to see Ronan actually use his sword in combat for a change, I don't think we've seen that before, he's usually too busy shooting stuff with his fancy pistol. And the sparring session with Rodney at the beginning was hilarious, you could just tell he was going to smack him again the second he started paying attention to Weir and Sheppard
It's good to see they're setting up more interesting storylines with Michael though. Heck even Teyla got a bit of character work in when she was empathising with him. Who knows, combining the Micheal storyline with the whole Teyla's Wraith DNA thing may be able to give her the development she seems to be lacking.
Its a name. For instance, I have a friend named Alexandra... not to be confused with Alexandria... names are different than other words.
Nah, these are creepy bug things. They seem rather like an infestation, actually... maybe they could play that angle.
Well obviously they have a soft underbelly.
I did like Teyla's conversation with Rodney about Michael and all that. And then Ronon ranting baout how he said the genetic experiments were wrong to begin with.
Posted by: juks89 Jan 31st 2007, 1:43 PM
I expected a little more from those "Jaws". They all shot their P90 clips nearly empty ( I presume) and the thing just run away after Ronon chopped its arm off, or died instantly trough Ronon's gun. And why didn't they have any weapons? They just barged in and screamed a lot. Mikey had control of them, he would of been kind enough to give them something. The idea was good but it needed something more.
Posted by: Revan Jan 31st 2007, 5:04 PM
I expected a little more from those "Jaws". They all shot their P90 clips nearly empty ( I presume) and the thing just run away after Ronon chopped its arm off, or died instantly trough Ronon's gun. And why didn't they have any weapons? They just barged in and screamed a lot. Mikey had control of them, he would of been kind enough to give them something. The idea was good but it needed something more.
They were instinctive animals, they were not intelligent enough to use weapons.
Posted by: Sibylle Jan 31st 2007, 5:27 PM
They were instinctive animals, they were not intelligent enough to use weapons.
Still you would believe that they would've been much more dangerous!
The bug was more scary than the big monsters. They should've made them like predators, or big cat like thing. Like in SG-1 with the mutated animal in the "cloak dimension".
Mayb it'll come when Micheal sees his army of 50beastst couldn't even kill them......I mean.....even the Genii could have done it (they captured them before with less manpower).
So Micheal better goes working on his beasts or converting the Genii
Posted by: Gebosowulo Jan 31st 2007, 8:18 PM
Several things wrong with this episode in my opinion:
1.: Sheppard neither destroyed the DHD with the dart nor did he remove the remaining control crystals. He did not even attempt to strand Michael and the bug creatures on this planet. Kind of stupid and it does not fit his character.
2.: For that matter, how did Michael control the creatures? He programmed convenient voice control into them genetically, so they would follow him from birth/hatching on?
3.: Hard to believe that Sheppard did not kill Michael on sight, after seeing the number of innocent people he had slain in his sick experiments. And near the end of the episode, flying the dart, one would think that Sheppard could have (a) fetched Michael up with the teleportation device or (b) just shot Michael. He admits the grave danger Michael poses (terrible invasion of the bug people from outer space) but still he left him unharmed when he had all the advantage? Did he have any reason to leave him there unmolested, even though he had killed 4 marines earlier that day? While it is nice to have the Michael character around for a bit longer, this is kind of moot if they continue to waste him in episodes like this.
4.: For an alien rip-off there were way too many bug creatures attacking them in the end, and they went down too easily given how hard it was to kill the first one. Sure, they have a really soft underbelly, but it still felt a bit cheap. A close chase with fewer and more resilient creatures would have been more effective in my opinion, but then we would probably have gotten another good look at them, which would have been bad, because...
5.: it was too obvious that they just put some people in cheesy "alien suits", and this even though they kept the creatures in the shadows or hidden by explosive gunfire most of the time.
Sue me, but while I like both Atlantis and SG1 a lot usually, this episode was subterraneous in every way possible.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Jan 31st 2007, 8:48 PM
Well, the plot line for this episode was good, it sets up some interesting future episodes, but the episode itself was too scifi for me, im not a big fan of the slimy giant killer bugs tearing people appart. I think this is Atlantis' equivalent to the supersoldiers on SG1: hard to kill, mindless, loyal to one man... well, sort of man. The only weapon that semed to work was Ronan's (did they make up a name for that yet?) gun, so im wondering if Beckett's replacement (whoever that will be) will come up with some sort of biological weapon to kill them like they came up with the energy weapon to kill the supersoldiers.
This will make the war with the wraith a little easier though, now there are three opposing sides: Michaels superbugs, the Wraith, and Earth. I think there will be some sort of alliance in the future between Atlantis and Michael, as neither of them on their own is strong enough to defeat the Wraith, but working together they woudl have a greater chance... the enemy of my enemy is my friend.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 31st 2007, 9:55 PM
Michael has telepathic abilities, I'm sure that's how he controlled the alien.
I think the ep was more about the reintroduction of Micheal and a major enemy, and less about the actually monsters.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Jan 31st 2007, 11:05 PM
id like to know how they survived a direct attack from a hive for like a minute, even if all of the shots didnt hit the exact camp, the radiation left over from it would have to have killed them.
Posted by: KillerMarv Feb 1st 2007, 4:23 AM
Several things wrong with this episode in my opinion:
1.: Sheppard neither destroyed the DHD with the dart nor did he remove the remaining control crystals. He did not even attempt to strand Michael and the bug creatures on this planet. Kind of stupid and it does not fit his character.
2.: For that matter, how did Michael control the creatures? He programmed convenient voice control into them genetically, so they would follow him from birth/hatching on?
3.: Hard to believe that Sheppard did not kill Michael on sight, after seeing the number of innocent people he had slain in his sick experiments. And near the end of the episode, flying the dart, one would think that Sheppard could have (a) fetched Michael up with the teleportation device or (b) just shot Michael. He admits the grave danger Michael poses (terrible invasion of the bug people from outer space) but still he left him unharmed when he had all the advantage? Did he have any reason to leave him there unmolested, even though he had killed 4 marines earlier that day? While it is nice to have the Michael character around for a bit longer, this is kind of moot if they continue to waste him in episodes like this.
4.: For an alien rip-off there were way too many bug creatures attacking them in the end, and they went down too easily given how hard it was to kill the first one. Sure, they have a really soft underbelly, but it still felt a bit cheap. A close chase with fewer and more resilient creatures would have been more effective in my opinion, but then we would probably have gotten another good look at them, which would have been bad, because...
5.: it was too obvious that they just put some people in cheesy "alien suits", and this even though they kept the creatures in the shadows or hidden by explosive gunfire most of the time.
Sue me, but while I like both Atlantis and SG1 a lot usually, this episode was subterraneous in every way possible.
I agree with you 1 to 5... You brought some pretty good arguments to your thoughts. I think that Sheppard would have rather captured Michael (in your #3) with the dart than shoot him, even if he killed marines. That is how the military must act in case an enemy is either defenseless or unarmed. Yeah, and about #2, I think Michael communicated telepathically with the creatures, which makes no sense as a defense against the other Wraith, which could also communicate telepathically with the creatures. Your point 2 still stands.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Feb 1st 2007, 8:15 AM
Unless they were designed/trained to only obey him, like the supersoldiers. They could have just dailed atlantis to tell them to have the daedalus swing by. Sheppard would have had to wait 2 days, it would be instant for Mckay, Teyla and Ronan, then they could have atleast disabled the gate and blew up a few creatres and hopefully Michael. What was that thing that was on sg1 where they destroy all life on a planet that they did on the buyg planet?
Posted by: flash3389 Feb 1st 2007, 10:33 PM
Unless they were designed/trained to only obey him, like the supersoldiers. They could have just dailed atlantis to tell them to have the daedalus swing by. Sheppard would have had to wait 2 days, it would be instant for Mckay, Teyla and Ronan, then they could have atleast disabled the gate and blew up a few creatres and hopefully Michael. What was that thing that was on sg1 where they destroy all life on a planet that they did on the buyg planet?
Which episode are you talking about. The one where T'qeal got that dragon fly thing on his back or the episode where the ritua (invisible bug guys) invaded sg-1.
Posted by: Gebosowulo Feb 2nd 2007, 8:06 AM
Which episode are you talking about. The one where T'qeal got that dragon fly thing on his back or the episode where the ritua (invisible bug guys) invaded sg-1.
I believe the relevant episode is "The Scourge", episode 17 of the 9th season, but I do not remember what kind of extermination method they were talking about. Nerve gas, maybe?
Posted by: Gotanks Feb 3rd 2007, 10:04 AM
I believe the relevant episode is "The Scourge", episode 17 of the 9th season, but I do not remember what kind of extermination method they were talking about. Nerve gas, maybe?
Landry only said that they were working on a extermination method which would kill the bugs but leave the rest of live unharmed.
Posted by: KillerMarv Feb 4th 2007, 4:49 AM
The best part of this episode was still the beginning with Ronon teaching Rodney how to fight. "Are you weak?"
The way Rodney was holding that stick, and of course the fact that Ronon had little mercy, even after Sheppard came in to talk to him about the Super-Volcano people, priceless.
Posted by: Revan Feb 4th 2007, 4:35 PM
Landry only said that they were working on a extermination method which would kill the bugs but leave the rest of live unharmed.
They destroyed all the life on that planet's surrounding surface.
The best part of this episode was still the beginning with Ronon teaching Rodney how to fight. "Are you weak?"
The way Rodney was holding that stick, and of course the fact that Ronon had little mercy, even after Sheppard came in to talk to him about the Super-Volcano people, priceless.
Rodney looked terrible. He was all scared and rigid... its no wonder he was getting his ass kicked.
Posted by: Rogue Ashrak Feb 5th 2007, 7:09 AM
Its a name. For instance, I have a friend named Alexandra... not to be confused with Alexandria... names are different than other words.
Doesn't really apply here. Alexandria and Alexandra are two different names. Who do you know that's called "Koyla"? More specifically who in STARGATE is called "Koyla"? We knew who he meant, there really was no need to correct a simple typo.
If he had made the same mistake repeatedly however.....
Rodney looked terrible. He was all scared and rigid... its no wonder he was getting his ass kicked.
Ronan attacking him while his back was turned probably didnt help either
. But hey he's a scientist not a combat vet. What did you expect?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Feb 5th 2007, 11:21 AM
Ronan attacking him while his back was turned probably didnt help either
. But hey he's a scientist not a combat vet. What did you expect? I think he specifically attacked him while his head was turned to make a point. PAY ATTENTION!. He can't fight if he's not focused. Although he does seem to do his science that way.
Posted by: Raxor Feb 5th 2007, 5:29 PM
This epsisode was kinda nice, but some places it was not so good. Cmon, Super wraith - annother enemy to fight? Plus they should have kept them in the dark a little more they just look terrible when we got a look at them.
but that aside it was cool to see michael again even though its odd how he survived.
would rate it ** this week,
Posted by: Janos Feb 7th 2007, 11:03 PM
What the hell was this episode for? I mean, I agree with Raxor....
Cmon, Super wraith - annother enemy to fight?
Were the wraith and the replicators just not enough enemies with insanely overwhelming power? Did we really need a new race of bad guys to deal with?
It seems like they're getting tired of writing for the Wraith characters... What was the last really good Wraith episode? Once the Replicators got into the picture, the Wraith seem to be taking a back seat.... I never liked the Replicators becoming a main bad guy because we already had a crapload of Replicator episodes in SG-1.... And now there's a new bad guy, WTF?
Posted by: Parmenides Feb 8th 2007, 2:21 PM
I never liked the Replicators becoming a main bad guy because we already had a crapload of Replicator episodes in SG-1....
It also irks me that they blatantly refer to them as replicators. I know that's what they are, but couldn't they TRY referring to them as Asurans?
This was an absolute snorefest. I like Michael less and less each time he pops up in an episode. It's true, they're just the Pegasus galaxy's version of supersoldiers...except with more spindly bits...
I hope we don't see them again for a long, long time.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Feb 8th 2007, 2:35 PM
It also irks me that they blatantly refer to them as replicators. I know that's what they are, but couldn't they TRY referring to them as Asurans?
This was an absolute snorefest. I like Michael less and less each time he pops up in an episode. It's true, they're just the Pegasus galaxy's version of supersoldiers...except with more spindly bits...
I hope we don't see them again for a long, long time.
Referring to them as replicators definitly bugs me too.
320
Posted by: Jade Feb 12th 2007, 5:31 AM
i had some problem with this episode. Its not terribly bad, but not overall good either. In general, I just don't think the writing is that great this season for Atlantis, a bit weak for their standard.
few notable bit in this episode: it was sad that the whole race of ppl were eliminated due to SGA's mistake. they created Michael, which led to what happen.
Michael was sad as well, not accepting by both wraith and human, I am sure he would of be happy if SGA had never experimented on him. Ronon was right for once: "it was a bad idea".
The whole episodewas a little too dark, very hard to follow the action. But I did liked all the reference to Aliens
Posted by: RJK Feb 18th 2007, 11:01 AM
Yes! Don't give him an inch!
Posted by: Dafmeister Mar 7th 2007, 4:10 PM
Another great episode. Michael seriously needs more screen time because he is a great antagonist for the team. The one thing I hope is that this episode has set up a story arc for season 4, a continuation is needed.
Posted by: 38_mins moo Mar 7th 2007, 6:13 PM
Wouldn't say it was the best, but it was far from the worst.
Good to see michael back, he's one of the better characters or as Daf said "antagonist" for the team.
On any other week this would have beaten any average episode of SG1 i'd give it 6.5/10.
Posted by: JC1 Mar 13th 2007, 5:42 PM
A pretty average but fairly entertaining episode.
It seems a bit unlikely that Micheal managed to wipe out all of the volcano people so quickly, without them alerting Atlantis.
Posted by: Dafmeister Mar 13th 2007, 5:54 PM
Posted by: cosmos Jun 13th 2007, 4:44 AM
When Mike and Shep were holding guns to each other's faces, I thought that Mike should not hesitate about it. For a Wraith it's not like it is terminal if they shoot second in a duel. However slow he could have been Shep would not have been able to shoot more than twice before he gets stunned and incapacitated.
And we have seen that no Master-Wraith have died with two shots. He would have healed and moved on and maybe even have a chance with the incapacitated Shep to have a taste.
I am not saying I wanted to be like that, just that it felt to me out of place.
Except of course if Mike being half human has difficulty healing as well as a full Wraith, being enough reason to give him a pause.
Overall a good episode, though I hope they will improve the bug soldiers on a future episode. I am not sure why they thought they were formidable, other than the fact that are scary big disgusting insects who want to kill you. But clearly I am not sure how they tried to do it, I saw one trying to move his head closer, suggesting that they rely on biting or kissing their enemies to make a kill (the kiss of death like the creatures from Harry Potter).
Their hand doesn't have sharp claws, there are three fingers and nails in the end and though the creatures are strong, doesn't seem to be stronger than an average marine. All in all not your typical killer monster. Shep was punched and tossed around by these creatures most and got up with no scratch on him, or even acting hurt.
I didn't like that they got off so unscratched. It doesn't quite bond well that a whole settlement of people and four marines have been taken out and them were fine, other than a cut on McKay's chin.
What I did like most was that they acted scared, which was very fitting for such an episode with the Alien references played out.
Posted by: Reignfire Jun 15th 2007, 9:21 PM
I'm wondering if they brought Michael back as a major enemy because Connor Trinneer is more available since he's no longer a regular on any shows.
I kept waiting for Teyla's mental ability or DNA to be used in this episode. First, I thought if Michael was controlling the Super Bugs telepathically, so Teyla could do the same. Second, I thought the Iratus bug wasn't going to attack her because either it sensed her Wraith DNA or she could telepathically communicate with it.
It will be interesting to see a Wraith vs. Super Bugs battle.
Posted by: NewbieSGfan Jun 16th 2007, 12:12 AM
A nice thought but doesn't seem likely. Unless they play with another AU ep. Which would be a cop out really.
Anyway, back to the ep. Wasn't too bad, but I cant help but think they've sort of regurgitated another SG-1 storyline....do these super-wraith things come across to anyone else as Atlantis's version of the Kull warriors?
That was my very first thought when the team discovered the creatures were created through experimentation and by the wraith (namely, Michael)! .......that is all I really wanted to say.
It sucks living in the U.S., everyone already has said everything that needs to be said once the episode actually airs for me:
1)Why call them super bugs? They seem to die rather easily, and they are terrible at killing. It seems that all they can do is knock down people and traumatize people with alien humping---don't ask. It's late over here at the moment---big arms and 'claws' (they seemed kinda of flabby when the first one got its arm chopped off).
2)The stand off between Michael and Sheppard. Why didn't Michael just shoot him since he's still part wraith, and it takes more than just one bullet (sometimes. I remember seeing headshots take out those guard/soldier wraiths in previous episodes) to take him out? He didn't NEED to lower his weapon.
Hrm.. okay, looking back at the only 2-3 points that I got, I didn't come up with -A LOT- of the same points.. but I'm slow at these things. I'm happy if I even get 1 idea that other people agree with.
Oh, and by the way, the questions above are just rhetoric. No need to answer them.
Posted by: Sylver Jun 16th 2007, 3:08 PM
I kept waiting for Teyla's mental ability or DNA to be used in this episode. First, I thought if Michael was controlling the Super Bugs telepathically, so Teyla could do the same. Second, I thought the Iratus bug wasn't going to attack her because either it sensed her Wraith DNA or she could telepathically communicate with it.
That's an interesting point I hadn't thought of. Then again, I was so busy wondering what the point of adding in the B Horror Movie cliches into the thinnest possible storyline they could imagine was.
Did love Rodney and Ronon's ah...practice? Can't really be called actual fighting when Rodney was getting his ass kicked.
Ronon did have a valid and very good point: Kill Michael. Sure, the writers didn't want him dead in case they brought him back (hopefully with a better script) but come on! Let's stun him and what? Bring him back to Atlantis for MORE experiments? Thereby making them just as bad as Michael. Oh, wait...they did that already. Which is fine but don't go all righteous on me with the better for humanity speech. No matter how you coat it, it's the same thing.
Ronon's point in killing what they created was the best argument they had this entire season and really showed the arrogance the humans have in this galaxy.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 16th 2007, 6:57 PM
What I liked about this episode is Michael, Michael and Michael. I have said all along he was so much better than the "normal" Wraith, who I just cannot stand. With Michael, we got shades of humanity, and what all humans sometimes live for, vengeance, in this episode.
I will admit I thought his creatures were somewhat lame. I think they would have been better shown more in the dark. Question, Michael allowed his creatures to feed on the people until they died. The Wraith feed on their captures until they die. The Wraith food, looks totally dehydrated. The creatures food just looked dead. So I'm assuming they don't feed off of them until there is nothing there.
I loved Ronon pointing out to Shep that he was against this experiment from the beginning. It was wrong and it didn't work. Ronon was correct. When it comes to the Wraith, I think the SGA people need to pay more attention to Ronon. He had been on the run from them for like 7 years I think. He has seen it all and fought so many of them. They need to listen.
Oh and once again, no mention of Beckett. I really hate this. He died, they move on. There is no mention of this man.
Posted by: Invisible Painting Jun 16th 2007, 7:15 PM
Oh and once again, no mention of Beckett. I really hate this. He died, they move on. There is no mention of this man.
Yeah, shows how important they thought of him on the show. If it was Sheppard or Mckay we wouldn't hear the end of it the whole next episode. I guess we didn't here, was dissapointed...
Agreed with you on the other points as well.
Posted by: kordone Jun 17th 2007, 6:25 AM
I think it would have been more interesting if Michael could make his creatures more like Ellia.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 17th 2007, 7:58 AM
He would have needed young Wraith for that though. Given the Wraith no longer consider him one of them, it is unlikely he could get any.
Posted by: Revan Jun 17th 2007, 11:42 AM
The Iratus bug never seemed to suck its food dry. TPTB probably wanted to put some distance between the big uglies and the Wraith.
Posted by: ancient01 Jun 17th 2007, 4:43 PM
I like the idea of keeping Michael as an ememy somewhere out there. He is an example of mistakes coming back to bite us in the ass when we're not careful. I think it's good to keep that around to pull out every once in a while. Not a bad episode over all.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 17th 2007, 5:25 PM
I like the idea of keeping Michael as an ememy somewhere out there. He is an example of mistakes coming back to bite us in the ass when we're not careful. I think it's good to keep that around to pull out every once in a while. Not a bad episode over all.
Like the mistake of not beaming him on board the Wraith dart and taking him prisoner while you had the chance?
Posted by: Invisible Painting Jun 17th 2007, 6:56 PM
Like the mistake of not beaming him on board the Wraith dart and taking him prisoner while you had the chance?
Yeah, like that one
If they did that then....yeah they could just shoot him when they rematerialised him, guess they didn't think of that 
But agreed having him around is good, because as Ronan said they shouldn't have done it in the first place, not only did it backfire but it was hugely morally questionable in the first place. Really keeps reminding them of that and it's a good thing, you should keep reminding them teams of their mistakes. Because it is good for them, and us watching
Posted by: kordone Jun 18th 2007, 12:47 AM
I didn't mean the young Wraith part, what I meant was doing the same thing as the early version of the retro-virus did to Ellia which stripped the human part of her DNA away & made her more like the Irratus bug.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 18th 2007, 7:29 AM
That would mean Michael would need full grown Wraith. The normal Wraith hate him and would most likely be unwilling to have anything to do with him.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 18th 2007, 10:10 PM
That would mean Michael would need full grown Wraith. The normal Wraith hate him and would most likely be unwilling to have anything to do with him.
Wasn't she like a teenager? The, for lack of a better word, going through puberty stage? I didn't think she was fully grown at that point in time.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 19th 2007, 3:42 AM
Yes but what I was trying to say was that the original retovirus created by Beckett only worked on a Wraith, altering it so that the Iratus bug DNA was more dominant. As far as I can guess, injecting an Iratus bug with the original retrovirus used on Ellia wouldn't do anything as the Iratus bug would only have their own DNA in their bodies.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 19th 2007, 7:04 PM
Yes but what I was trying to say was that the original retovirus created by Beckett only worked on a Wraith, altering it so that the Iratus bug DNA was more dominant. As far as I can guess, injecting an Iratus bug with the original retrovirus used on Ellia wouldn't do anything as the Iratus bug would only have their own DNA in their bodies.
Okay, got it. Yes you are correct. If used on the bug, I doubt that anything would happen. I believe the bug's dna is stronger than the human dna, or the Wraith would look more human and not buglike.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 20th 2007, 3:30 AM
Okay, got it. Yes you are correct. If used on the bug, I doubt that anything would happen. I believe the bug's dna is stronger than the human dna, or the Wraith would look more human and not buglike.
The Wraith do look quite human though. They stand on two feet. Move the same way as humans, they look like humans, they have the characteristics of humans. They differ by skin color, some aspects of the face, teeth, some internal organs, regeneration, mind abilities. I say there is a fair amount of characteristics from both species.
Posted by: StarFighter Jun 20th 2007, 5:13 AM
When did Shepard learn how to fly the wraith darts so easily? Last time I remember he had to guess what he was doing because he couldn't understand the Wraith display.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 20th 2007, 7:41 AM
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 20th 2007, 12:29 PM
When did Shepard learn how to fly the wraith darts so easily? Last time I remember he had to guess what he was doing because he couldn't understand the Wraith display.
Sheppard is an exceptional pilot. he has learned to fly the Jumper, the 302 and the Dart with little to no training. I had a teacher who was a pilot. He says that Once you know where the throttle and the flight controls are, you can pretty much fly anything.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 20th 2007, 12:43 PM
How much of the Human genome is required to make a the Wraith a bipedal species? Would it be possible for a retrovirus to strip all but the basic Human genome in essence making a Humanoid Iratus bug?
I was merely speculating on how much of each species is in a Wraith. There is a big difference between the DNA code of a bipedal creature and the DNA of a non-bipedal creature. And an even bigger one from a buglike creature to a humanoid one. You can see this in how the retrovirus acted. In stripped a lot of Ellia's genome, but the resulting creature was still bipedal, and non-buglike. The color of the skin changed, and she became much more aggressive. We don't know how was she feeding, or how was she reproducing at that level, since we had too less time, but I say she was far enough from both humanoid Iratus bug and Wraith.
Actually, we don't know how Wraith reproduce either. That would be important to know if we want to know how much human and how much Iratus bug do Wraith have in their genome.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 20th 2007, 5:30 PM
The Wraith do look quite human though. They stand on two feet. Move the same way as humans, they look like humans, they have the characteristics of humans. They differ by skin color, some aspects of the face, teeth, some internal organs, regeneration, mind abilities. I say there is a fair amount of characteristics from both species.
Even though the Wraith stand and walk like humans, have two arms and two legs, that is all that I see that is human. I see so much more bug characteristics in the face and definitely in how they feed. They definitely regenerate as some bugs do. We know from Beckett that the internal organs are different. I still feel the bug dna is stronger.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 21st 2007, 6:48 AM
Even though the Wraith stand and walk like humans, have two arms and two legs, that is all that I see that is human. I see so much more bug characteristics in the face and definitely in how they feed. They definitely regenerate as some bugs do. We know from Beckett that the internal organs are different. I still feel the bug dna is stronger.
They have two types of feeding:
1) The human way, with which they eat using their mouth and stomach, but as they said, this doesn't satisfy their body's energy requirements.
2) Their own unique way, with which they do satisfy the body, and improve their regeneration.
Beckett said that they have common organs and different organs than ours.
They are humanoid...
I still say that the characteristics are fairly distributed.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 26th 2007, 1:45 AM
They have two types of feeding:
1) The human way, with which they eat using their mouth and stomach, but as they said, this doesn't satisfy their body's energy requirements.
2) Their own unique way, with which they do satisfy the body, and improve their regeneration.
Beckett said that they have common organs and different organs than ours.
They are humanoid...
I still say that the characteristics are fairly distributed.
Well then I guess we shall just have to disagree!
Posted by: Teyla Emmagan Nov 2nd 2007, 10:06 AM
Micheal's creatures made gave me nightmares , they were creeepy . Making Atlantis seem darker now , reminded me of Alien though .
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