Printable Version of Topic

Posted by: Arcady Dec 6th 2004, 4:57 AM

Episode 15 - Before I Sleep
Air Dates - Canada: Dec 6 2004, UK: Jan 25 2005, US: Feb 18 2005

A woman is found in suspended animation in Atlantis, and the team is shocked to see that it is Dr. Weir herself, who tells them of her trip 10,000 years into the city's past.

http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s1.shtml#115 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=8604 | http://www.sg1archive.com/teasers/a115.html

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)

Posted by: Arcady Dec 7th 2004, 12:55 AM

I really enjoyed the episode. This was the first time I didn't completley hate Weir. And the references to "Back to the Future" were very welcome and hilarious to me (especially considering some stuff that has been going on within other locations on the forum...) and it wasn't even a ripoff, like some M&M episode would have been.

It was also nice to see them work in some scenes from the first episode, but slightly different. I wonder if they filmed them at that time, or went back and redid it. It looked like all of Sumner's lines were the same, so I bet they just replicated the scenes and stuck in some existing footage.

Anyway, another top-notch episode in my opinion. I'm really enjoying Atlantis much more than I thought I would.

Posted by: LoneWolf84 Dec 7th 2004, 2:32 AM

I second the motion. This ep rocked my socks off! It answered question on how things happen, it was well put together. The WHOLE time I was on the edge of my seat. And now it's opened up a possibilities for future eps that just excites me so much! I really liked weir for the first time EVER! *Contemplated allowing her not to die....*gasp*

my one complaint...the very end, the backdrops were not very realistic.

other than that, GREAT ep. So excited for the rest of season, it should never end! *votes to give SG1's budget to atlantis*

Posted by: Arcady Dec 7th 2004, 4:46 AM

Normally I spend some time with a Photoshop manip, but try this one...

Posted by: Danimoth Dec 7th 2004, 4:48 AM

Indeed it was a good episode.

I thought it would be more along the lines of... "adequate" however it was a great episode.

Too bad most of those ZPMs will most likely be dead (after 10000 years).

Answers some questions, and reassures some points. One point is that the Wraith really did/were destroying the ancients. (I can't remember if this was actually mentioned or not in the series... but this just reassured me.)

That gives me an even bigger desire to see the 2 part finale, in a hope that our plan goes well.

Posted by: GuNdj Dec 7th 2004, 4:54 AM

I third the motion.

Great episode!
I was concerned that being a time travel episode they would screw it up, but luckily they didn't and instead pulled it off wonderfully.

Although the nitpicker in me is feeling a little squirmish as it kind of contradicts an episode of SG1 involving time travel as well as not explaining why all the Ancients are all speaking English instead of Ancient!
LOL, they could have at least shown them giving Dr Weir a translator or something before they started speaking.

But that stuff's material for another forum, and not that important anyway.

One thing I think that was missing from the episode that would have made it even better, was showing the transport ship being taken out. It would have made it more emotionally moving to see the people that were about to die as well as being extremely cool looking! I wanted to know what their transport ships looked like.

Best episode of Atlantis so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention that the Back to the Future references were great too! Love those movies. Janus's ship has a flux capacitor! That had me laughing pretty intensly.

Posted by: nitesoul Dec 7th 2004, 6:07 AM

very nicely done episode and does a great job in answering questions we all had

the ancients had other ships beside the puddle jumper(warships and large transports), why they were losing the war(it was because of the wraith's superior numbers afterall), if they built any outposts in peg(there were at least 5, well 5 that should have zpms), even tells us who put the dust covers on the consoles(weir the neat freak, ^^), it also puts to bed the confusion some ppl had about when the ancients ascended(after they had left atlantis, presumablely when they were on earth)

but i'm puzzled by why the ancients were still transporting ppl from others planets even though they have been under seige for years, shouldn't they be done with that already and all their ppl safely on atlantis once they started losing the war? and why didnt they use the gate to get to atlantis instead of charging through the wraith blockade(although its possible that the wraith control the gate on whatever planet the last transport was fleeing from, they can build a new gate with ease, orlin did it and with common stuff to boot)?

Posted by: Raxor Dec 7th 2004, 6:48 AM

would be nice if you said what the spoiler was about anyway...


it was a great episode and it was good to see the ancients. i dont hate weir as much but still a litte. comedy between mkay and sheppard was great. 4 star ep from me...

Posted by: noradd Dec 7th 2004, 9:08 AM

This episode was soo good, so moving, and yes, so touching, I think im gonna watch it again! and again and again, [even though i have finals in 6 hours]. Anyways, there are things that they didn't show, some people suggested, that they should have shown that the puddle jumper had blown up, or getting destroyed. Well, that would mean that they would actually destroy the puddle jumper that they ONLY have. I am assuming they only have one, because there's no need for two. Obviously . They have more on stock, but u've never seen 2 puddle jumpers flying together. Even in the storm, there were 2 puddle jumpers, but, they were never on screen together!

As for the language, yes, it might be a loop hole. But, if ppl say ancients are advanced as they say. Then, it shouldn't be a surprize that there's a universal translator automatically running. I mean, look at startrek, they didn't need to [except when the federation just started, universal translator were inadequate, techno wise]

Any how, what I dont understand the is transport ship, being bombarded, they know for sure that there are wraiths all over the place, and for some reason, they used a transport ship to transport ppl from place to place.

I like how the episode went actually, I loved how everything has flown to the right places.

Hopefully, there will be future episodes, where it could tell us more about the saga. Such as the great alliance with the nox, furlings, ancients, asgards, and whatnot. I love episodes that tells stories about stargate, and it's series. It makes everything rightfully fall into place!

Posted by: Gary83 Dec 7th 2004, 9:52 AM

This episode spoiled most of stargate for me...I'm surprised I'm the only one to think this.

After 8 Seasons of SG1 + Atlantis of building the ancients up to be such an advanced race..they are just a bunch of assclows. They remind me so much of the Tollan with their smug attitude and non-interference policy, they need to take a page out of the asgard book.

All the non-interference crap they spout is a bit old when all the threats to earth are situations they caused or failed to deal with:

- Leaving Stargates for Goa'uld to enslave humans
- Letting Anubis get their technology
- Seeding Pegasus then failing to protect it from the Wraith

and we needed to clean up all of their mess...

They didnt strike me as an enlightened and advanced race in this episode, they seemed petty, small-minded, arrogant and cowardly.

Its lucky that there was a 2nd evolution of their race, cause the first were a bunch of losers.

All in all, the ancients (with the exception of the Scientist which reminded me of Mckay) were a huge let down.

(sorry to anyone this upsets, Im just really disappointed with stargate at the moment)

Posted by: Muskusrat Dec 7th 2004, 10:43 AM

Posted by: Drizzt's Syn Dec 7th 2004, 6:32 PM

I absolutely loved this episode. I had a feeling Weir would finally pick up speed judging from the last couple episodes and yes - she gets a whole episode revolving around her.

The scene of them hearing the transport being shot down was chilling enough IMO, I didn't feel the need for visuals...

The Ancients were a bit different than I expected but I don't feel it spoiled anything...SG-1 has become a real mess story-wise anyway, so this doesn't change much for me.

They're still humans in many ways, after all. The first evolution was a bunch of losers? You consider "us" in reality a successful race?

Posted by: Gary83 Dec 7th 2004, 7:03 PM

I think from what we have seen in Stargate we can say we are very successful:

- We dont make a mess then leave someone else to clean it up
- We help our allies when they are threatened (and prevail)
- We help the many people's throughout the galaxy who are an offshoot of our own race
- We dont run at the first sign of trouble
- Hold our own against foes with superior tech and numbers on a regular basis

The ancients however:

- Make huge screw ups and leave it to us to sort it
. Leaving Stargate network making it easy for goa'uld to enslave humans
. Letting Anubis have access to ancient knowledge and weapons
. Allow the Wraith to terrorise countless worlds which they had a duty to protect
- Dont help races because it would be considered "interfering"
- Dont help us (an offshoot of their race)
- Abandon an entire galaxy, abandon their city and run back to earth

I think we can safely say they are Losers with a capital L!

Their tech is the only impressive thing about them...however, im surprised such an incapable race survived long enough to reach it.

I just wished their race was as impressive as their technology but they were found lacking in that area in my opinion, they didnt seem to me like a race who have grown wise from millions of years of civilisation.

Posted by: noradd Dec 7th 2004, 7:31 PM

I do not think that you guys see the problem in this. If you watch enough sci-fi, you will understand why interferance is actually a bad thing. There are lots of episodes esp startrek [voyager, enterprise], where people interfere and actually have no consequences.

First of all, Tollana's reason that they didn't help earth, was not only because they were arrogant, was also because, earth was not as advanced as they were. Watch the episode again, and they said that they have learned from their mistakes from sharing technos with other worlds, and end up destroying themselves.

Didn't you watch the Episode for SG-1 [ cant remember], but the plot is, that.. they found the harcisist, and Daniel had the knowledge to defend earth. Instead of defending earth, the def mechanism was instead targetted to the ppl of Russia. Now, look at that episode and see the effects of 'new' technology, that could potentially do a lot of dmg.

Now, imagine the ancients are these advanced race they claim to be, and they have impressive techno. That would end up eliminating the earthlings. If the ancients cant beat em with their tech, how could we do? [watch atlantis! ]

Time travel phenomenon
There are lots of sci-fi that tries to defy time travelling. There are lots of possibilities that if you interfere with something, you could ruin everything. Although, most ep about time travel, it always turns out right. but what if it doesn't. do u see my point?

anyhow, i think your expectations of the ancients is too much, they have disappointed you in a way.

Posted by: noradd Dec 7th 2004, 7:36 PM

Posted by: Drizzt's Syn Dec 7th 2004, 7:57 PM

I was speaking of us in reality, but nevermind...I've never understood how people refer to "us" in fiction.

Either way...
- We dont make a mess then leave someone else to clean it up

Uhh...Aren't you forgetting the Ancients died out because of a disease and ascended out of necessity? Who knows what they found out when they were ascended. Read my post in the last episode about why or how it could be quite possible for them to not want to interfere.

- We help our allies when they are threatened (and prevail)

Same here. We know of no example of this not occuring during the Ancient's prime. As I said above there are many possible reasons why the ascended Ancients won't help us.

- We help the many people's throughout the galaxy who are an offshoot of our own race

Once again, same here. Besides, we're using their technology to do so.

- We dont run at the first sign of trouble

You call their last stand against the Wraith, after being overrun and retreating...running at the FIRST sign of trouble? Uh-huh.

- Hold our own against foes with superior tech and numbers on a regular basis

With plenty of dumb luck and once again, mostly using ACQUIRED and not self-developed technology. We never would have come this far with P-90's and nuclear bombs.

The only single point I agree with is the fact that they didn't stop Anubis when he was using Ancient secrets and tapping into the ascended "side".

Posted by: anja Dec 7th 2004, 8:07 PM

This episode explained how the wraith could defeat a race this powerful. There are simply too many of them.
Like killerbees one on one a human is far superior but they are rarely alone.

So when the entire wraith population (if they still are as many) awakens they?ll be in trouble. We also know the wraith used a peacetalk meeting as a war opportunity so they want fall for that after old-weir told the SG team about this. But now they?ll have ZPM if they can find them and if they still work.


Would have liked this as a double episode:

First episode:
We see them come to Atlantis (fans begin to wonder if this is an old episode then realize the changes?but not know why) play out the disaster in full. Compartments fill up people die some running and screaming. And leave with a cliffhanger when they take off and leave the other to die. (People/fans start freaking and speculating what has happened and why)

Second episode: They find Dr.Weir and we get the story how it happened and timetravel bla bla bla.

Posted by: richie Dec 7th 2004, 9:21 PM

[COLOR=green]My favorite part was when major shephard said not to meant a nice delorean

Posted by: JaffaKree Dec 8th 2004, 2:27 AM

The fact that they built the stargates in our galaxy that helped the Goa'uld enslave their own ancestors, us, seems like interference in and of itself. It would have been nice of the Ancients to try and at least prevent the Goa'uld from using the SG network after they realized they were expediting their attempted enslavement of humanity.

Posted by: infra172 Dec 8th 2004, 2:32 AM

Great episode. Weir definately has a thing for "John". Atlantis & SG-1 spoilers:

Posted by: JaffaKree Dec 8th 2004, 2:44 AM

Forgot to mention I loved the bit with McKay doing a little vicarious apartment hunting through Sheppard at the beginning. Something like "A balcony would be nice but I'm not married to it."

Posted by: Pitry Dec 8th 2004, 4:17 AM

Posted by: Danimoth Dec 8th 2004, 4:31 AM

Posted by: adama Dec 8th 2004, 5:08 AM

Posted by: GuNdj Dec 8th 2004, 5:23 AM

Posted by: dr_n_tesla Dec 8th 2004, 7:12 AM

Posted by: Drizzt's Syn Dec 8th 2004, 7:24 AM

Posted by: Gary83 Dec 8th 2004, 9:37 AM

I wish that the ancients didnt act so arrogant in this ep, like when weir wanted to go back to her own time..they didnt even discuss it with her they just basically ignored everything she said and said no after discussing it amongst themselves.

It seemed very Tollan to me, I thought the ancients should have been more like the Asgard in this situation, at least they were willing to hear O'Neil out, give reasons, debate them with him and then come to a decision.

I would have had a lot more respect for them if they did.

Posted by: Raxor Dec 8th 2004, 10:48 AM

Posted by: Carter-Hot Dec 8th 2004, 3:37 PM

If the spoiler is for "americans", you never know, we brits may actually get to see the season finale before you americans.



I thought this episode was great, shame the Ancients didn't really help Weir out and watching te original timeline, when Weir and team arrived at Atlantis, kinda sad to watch the senior members slowly die by drowning but kinda glad that an alternate timeline has been created.

At least the old Weir wasn't as likeable as old Janeway (of Star Trek Voyager), but it was certainly interesting, 5 gate addresses to outposts, I wonder how many of them have ZPMs and will we actually get to see them dial to those outposts.

Probably the 3rd or 4th person here to say this but

Moros is very cute

Oh ... Sheppard and Weir LOL I'm expecting some loving scenes sometime soon.

Posted by: Felger Dec 8th 2004, 4:11 PM

Posted by: Nnahrino Dec 8th 2004, 5:06 PM

I have to agree with the majority, an excellent episode.. beginning to find out a lot more about the Ancients over recent episodes, hope it continues.

I dont really see anything wrong with the Ancients, they didnt have anything personally against Weir they simply did not wish to get involved with time travel.. who knows what there reasons are but perhaps they just dont beleive in re-writing there timeline.

They clearly stated that they wanted nothing to do with time travel and had already told that scientist blokey to stop his research.

One thing i wasnt sure about is.. When weir woke up (at the age of 6,666yrs) surely she wouldnt be much healthier than she is now?

Posted by: Stargate SG-1 Bott Dec 8th 2004, 7:39 PM

Few pics







I enjoyed the episode alot, Alot of my questions were answered such as how much of a fight did the atlantians put up?

As we heard they used their best ships available but were helpless from the sheer number of Wraith.

Think of Zulus and British

Its always nice to see live ancients, form some of the comments about how dissapointed they are after seeing them, How can you judge a civilization on 3 people?.

Non interfearance is a good idea.

They obviously put up the best fight they could and lost. So Im thinking now, the Ancients went to the pegasus galaxy seeded life lived happily for a while.

Came under attack by the wraith, after a long period of fighting went to the peace table although this led to a huge battle in which the ancients eventually lost. On a side note of that wouldnt it be great to see that battle? Make the scene from 'Lost City' look pityful.

The ancients then went back to earth and lived happily again for a while until they started dying from the illness, they expanded their research on ascention as we saw they were doing this while on atlantis.


My Two cents.

Chris

Posted by: Cuokuo Dec 9th 2004, 8:56 AM

Overall i think this ep was rather poor, however the redeeming factor was the possibility of the zpm's. The only downside is that i doubt they will ever get a zpm with enough juice to power atlantis...considering that 1 full zpm will provide sufficient power for atlantis for more than 3000 years since that would just amke things far far to easy.

Another thing is that i would have imagined that zmp's would be something the ancients didnt have in short supply....which makes me wonder why they didnt have spare ones sitting around just as you would have spare batteries at home.

Posted by: Stargate SG-1 Bott Dec 9th 2004, 9:31 AM

Posted by: Chrominium Dec 9th 2004, 1:01 PM

Although the Ancients are an advance civilisation they are still humans. They are not perfect, at least not every single one of them. As I recall, Wier came at a very bad time. Tehy were already planning to evacuate and under a time limit. Wier could have managed to convinced them (cause she's supposedly a great international negotiator ) eventually if she went back to Earth.

What's this about judging a whole race on 1 person??? To my knowlegde, their were only 1 smug Tollen person. Even Earth doesn't share it's technology with lesser advance race!

Anyway my review on this episode *spoilers ahead*:

This was the episode I have been looking forward to, and it is the best episode for SGA. I haven't been impressed at all with the series, but this certainly makes up for it.

I was hoping to know a lot more about the Ancients by old Wier, but obviously they made it so she arrived as the Ancients were leaving. Everything was set up in a way that it fits together perfectly. It is very sentimental and sad, and Wier is a stronger character than most people think.

All in all, it is good but there are a few gripes:

- SG1 has time travelled, and experience time dilation/repeated events before. I'm surprise none of them knew about it or it was even mentioned. Maybe it was highly classified as one did have a consequence on General Hammond.

- I always hated it when series do time travel episodes. Star Trek does it in abundance with Voyager, and the first 2 seasons of Enterprise. It's horrible and messy. SG1 manages to limit it to a few nice and neat episodes. This episode manages to create a paradox - it's not neat and it's not nice. They explained it by saying multiple universes - so not only old Wier traveled through time, she travelled crossed universes.

- Wier must changed the ZPM twice in 10000 years. Assuming all the ZPM lasted about the same time she changed it at around 3500 years old, and 6500 years old. How did she managed?

- I can forgive this one as Stargate never really sorted out the language problem, but as someone said The Ancients spoke English, although the Ancient in 'Frozen' didn't.

- Did old Wier knew Shepperd/McKay/Beckkitt well enough to show them that much affection?

- We still know no more than we did before.Where did the Wraith come from? How is the galaxy populated with humans? What happened exactly? Their history? We did manages to get some stargate address - but we all know it's not that easy.

- McKay didn't freak out this time when he knew he was going to die. I'm surprise.

Some of you must remember the Ancients are humans, even if it is a previous generation. Is it that surprising they act like us? As Chaya said in the last episode, 'we are not all that different'.

Posted by: Gary83 Dec 9th 2004, 1:35 PM

Posted by: col.ross Dec 9th 2004, 2:36 PM

i live in the UK and iv just downloaded the episode and its amazing, i fthink its 1 of the best atlantis episodes so far!!! its good to see wot the actiants were like and atlantis fully operational, and im guessin that Jonhus (the person that built the time machine) was the one who built the puddle jumper they find on Harry Maybornes planet in Its Good 2 Be King to travel to the past in SG-1s Mobius??

Posted by: marlau Dec 9th 2004, 2:54 PM

I think that this was a great ep. but was also a little disapointed by the ancients attitude... at first. I have this idea of the ancients being this noble race. This is not seen in this episode but there is a pretty good reason for that, I think. At this point where we see them, they have been defeated. Their civilisation is chattered. First they experienced a plague, making them leave earth. Where they thought they could find sanctuary they found an enemy who defeated them. You can see there is not many ancients left (in atlantis anyway) when they are leaving.
My point is that when you see this ep you have to keep in mind that the ancients are pretty much gone so of course they are not as noble and amazing as we were let on to believe but that does not mean that they weren't at the time before all their misery.
One thing that puzzles me is that they seem to have been in Pegasus for a long time (leaving earth several million of years ago). That means they must have had a long time, well how can I put this, to make a lot of ancients babies . Why weren't their numbers great when they stumbled upon the wraith.

Posted by: Chrominium Dec 10th 2004, 9:56 AM

Posted by: col.ross Dec 10th 2004, 1:01 PM

Another thing i dont get is why arnt there eny remains of the Ancients on Earth, or did they all just live in at the antarctic outpost??

Posted by: Carter-Hot Dec 10th 2004, 3:23 PM

Posted by: Bradef Dec 10th 2004, 6:51 PM

Posted by: adama Dec 11th 2004, 5:50 AM

I had assumed they planet they'd already been to was Athos, as that had an ancient city on it. (or an advanced human city, probably ancient-built).

I assume the outpost would be fairly close to the stargate?

adam.

Posted by: Felger Dec 11th 2004, 4:29 PM

Posted by: Evo Dec 13th 2004, 12:56 AM

I saw this episode last week but I couldn't go onto the internet to write what I think about it

Well, this episode was good. But I thought the Ancients didn't know how to speak English lol. Because in episode Frozen in Stargate SG-1, the frozen Ancient didn't know how to speak, oh well I guess that was an effect it had being the the ice for so long then. I didn't expect us to see the actual Ancients already.. But other then that the episode was great. I liked it.

Posted by: Krystian SG1 Dec 14th 2004, 9:32 PM

I found a little error about this episode, but i idn't want to start a whole new topic for it in the Nitpick section.

When the control room was flooding and Shepperd, Wier, and Zelenka were in the jummper, McKay was trying to retract the roof. My question is how did he know about it. In the second time around he didn't know until episode 5 when he hit the wrong key in the jummper.

Posted by: noradd Dec 16th 2004, 4:20 AM

Posted by: Bradef Dec 24th 2004, 8:16 AM

Posted by: ruguy21 Jan 4th 2005, 1:48 AM

Hehe yea and they are not very clever aswell. I mean come on you are going back to your homeplanet after being away for miljons of years and what do they bring with them? Some bags, I mean come on take a few puttlejumpers and some power supply units to rebuild your civilation. BUT it is interesting to see that alot of ancients still made it back to earth so it is likely / possible they could still live on earth (that might be a nice twist ).

Posted by: ftt Jan 5th 2005, 1:35 PM

this was an average episode if you ask me about it

Posted by: ted_simple Jan 5th 2005, 4:15 PM

I'm glad people agree with me now, I've been saying that the very attractive hologram would be the empathic council member since I saw Rising? I'm glad I was proved right, I?ll accept any excuse to see her more! I seem to have a thing for far superior intellects.  

Posted by: nunu Jan 8th 2005, 5:59 PM

Few pics 







I enjoyed the episode alot, Alot of my questions were answered such as how much of a fight did the atlantians put up?

As we heard they used their best ships available but were helpless from the sheer number of Wraith.

Think of Zulus and British

Its always nice to see live ancients, form some of the comments about how dissapointed they are after seeing them, How can you judge a civilization on 3 people?.

Non interfearance is a good idea.

They obviously put up the best fight they could and lost. So Im thinking now, the Ancients went to the pegasus galaxy seeded life lived happily for a while.

Came under attack by the wraith, after a long period of fighting went to the peace table although this led to a huge battle in which the ancients eventually lost. On a side note of that wouldnt it be great to see that battle? Make the scene from 'Lost City' look pityful.

The ancients then went back to earth and lived happily again for a while until they started dying from the illness, they expanded their research on ascention as we saw they were doing this while on atlantis.
My Two cents.

Chris 

Posted by: BrandonTheGreat Jan 13th 2005, 9:57 PM

Ancients, it was great to see an alternate reality in this series. Thank god for the fail safe in the second reality.

Now how many of those places actually have ZPM's...

A great episode

Posted by: Christy Jan 17th 2005, 10:30 PM

i like the anicent woman...i think that maybe there should be an episode a season where...
we see the anicents in the past doing something...like experiments...like the atlantians reading their notes and the viewers seeing the ancients doing them.

I think that this was a good episode....not one of the best but written well.

Season 1 of Atlantis seems to be going well and in my opinion is better than the first season of Stargate SG-1

Posted by: saulos Jan 19th 2005, 6:27 PM

In Stargate season 8 ep 13, sg1 find a puddle jumper with a timedrive thing in it, and those engravings written in ancient prophersising the future. Is the ancient who did this the same one that helped weir ( i forget his name).He was experimenting with time drives, the devices in the both ep. and in the two ships look the same.. Did finish off his experiments with time on earth, and then go exploring. Did sg1 just find his other ship.? Is there more to come from him. in a later ep. or series.....

Just a thought

Posted by: nitesoul Jan 19th 2005, 6:53 PM

In Stargate season 8 ep 13,  sg1 find a puddle jumper with a timedrive thing in it, and those engravings written in ancient prophersising the future.  Is the ancient who did this the same one that helped weir ( i forget his name).He was experimenting with time drives, the devices in the both ep. and in the two ships look the same..  Did finish off his experiments with time on earth, and then go exploring. Did sg1 just find his other ship.?  Is there more to come from him.  in a later ep. or series.....

Just a thought

Posted by: Major Jay Carter Jan 25th 2005, 5:17 PM

this ep rocks! I just saw it and it was so cool! I love time travel ones. And new out posts, too!

Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 25th 2005, 5:23 PM

Excellent episode. One of the best of the season. Loved the little remarks that Sheppard and McKay were saying to each other when they found out the other died. Did the past version of Weir call the Ancients, Lanteans or Atlanteans? I couldnt make it out.

At the end McKay said they had already been to one of the planets on the list, was it the one from 'Childhood`s End'? Thats the only world we've seen with a ZPM isnt it? Cant wait to see the rest of the season now.

I was just looking at the pics posted by nunu a few post up. Is the woman in the second pic Amatsuratsu (spelling?), the Goa'uld we see in 'New Order'?

Posted by: frostychocolatemilkshakes Jan 25th 2005, 11:41 PM

This was a very cool EP.

We got to see our first (and hopefully not last) glimpse into the city's past. We also got to see the cool Time ship that apparently will be on the SG-1 season 8 finale "Moebius"

I hope we get to see more of the ancients in upcoming episodes.

I sure wish they hadn?t lost their battle with the wraith, though.

Posted by: sgc_commander Jan 26th 2005, 6:05 AM

i personally didnt watch it when it aired on sky one, i recoreded it and guess what i missed the last bit, i got up to the part where the Ancient that was being nice to Weir was about to leave with the info on his time ship. Then it stopped curse Sky one for showing that trailer for 24

Please Help

Other wise a great episode

Posted by: ali Jan 26th 2005, 12:08 PM

This has to be my favourite ep of Atlantis so far. I love the time travel ones. For some reason the part where Elizabeth was left in the city by herself and then finally died after she'd met the others made me really sad...I can't explain it.
I liked the fact that they still managed to get humour in as well with Mckay and Sheppard making fun of each other for dying.
Brilliant episode. What am I going to do when this series finishes?!

Posted by: Krystian SG1 Jan 29th 2005, 9:47 AM

I guess that that guy builds another time ship.

Posted by: stargatesweetie Jan 31st 2005, 12:46 PM

I didn't not like the episode, i just thought the storyline was a little too "out there" -sorry i can't think of a better thing to say I mean, what were the chances of Weir managing to choose the "time ship" and travel thorough time like that?! That's the only thing that could have been improved upon storywise, otherwise the episode was ok. The dialogue between McKay and Sheppard was amusing as usual and Weir was better than her usual bland self.

Posted by: thecopyczar Feb 18th 2005, 11:45 PM

Best episode of Atlantis I have yet seen. I am confused on one thing though. I just saw it tonight - on SciFi channel. And I was under the opinion that it was a new episode. How come everyone else has seen it already? And you too Arcady! We both live in the same city! How on earth did you see it in December?

Posted by: linda_lol Feb 19th 2005, 12:18 AM

OMG.

That was great! That was one of the best I've ever seen coming from SGA. It really digs into the characters. When McKay gave up his life for Weir and the others, that really touched me. I always found him really attached to life and seeing him give it up for them.... wow. Beckett did some good acting as well. And as for Weir, holy shiz. I'm startin to like her a lot more now. I hope people realize that she is worth something on the show cuz she really is a great actress and character.

Posted by: RJLCyberPunk Feb 19th 2005, 8:43 AM

I loved this episode I think it was wonderfully written and it has its mix of poignant and humorous moments.
Lot's of character development in this episode!

It has been said that we humans at our best when things are at their worst. And this episode depicted just that in all its poignant glory!

a 10/10 absolutely!

Posted by: mithwriter Feb 19th 2005, 12:04 PM

I'll admit that the all the character interactions kept me hooked. This was the best Weir's been so far, and kudos to TH in general, which was good considering she was the driving character. I'll also say that it was kinda cool to see a sort of AU, if you will, of what could've happened when her team first showed up at Atlantis. What was strange for me personally was that, when the pilot first aired, I made some comments about how such a big deal was made of the sheild's losing power but how it ultimately didn't matter because the city just rose to the surface anyway.

The 'first' version, was, for me, a much more intense and satisfying experience as a viewer to see these characters facing a worst case scenario, especially the main 3 characters (Weir, Rodney, and Sheppard). My only gripe was that the cut from the jumper being in space being attacked by the Wraith to Weir with the Ancients needed one or two more transitional scenes, but its a small thing to point out in light of the overall episode.

I'd also like to weigh in with the topic of the Ancients being so 'flawed' as a race for people who managed to do the things they managed to do. Personally, I find that much more appealing. I think its one of the truest reflections of humanity that the show has done.

If you want a more direct comparison, look at the relationship within a typical family. Don't kids (at least when they're younger) have an idolized version of their parents? It is only as they grow up that they begin to see more clearly that their parents have flaws too...which in turn makes the children flawed as well since they are a direct descendant of their parents. The trick is, can the children recognize their own shortcomings and rise above them, or are they destined to make the same mistakes their parents made?

Back to the episode....yes, I had a slight WTF moment when it turned out everyone was speaking the same perfect English as Weir when Illyana couldn't in Frozen, and she was (presumably) one of the same group of Atlanteans that evacuated at the end. Also....I also found it unlikely that no one who was supervising the evacuation made a special point to see Weir out the door (so to speak), especially in light of her and Jonas (another one???) working together.

Overall though it was pretty good.

Posted by: Crilisin Feb 19th 2005, 1:30 PM

this one made me feel realy sad.to think,all of them have died in a nother time line.

well,it was a good ep and im glad they found a zpm.

Posted by: Sighfienerd Feb 19th 2005, 5:35 PM

Oh my. This one was interesting. I really don't think I could have done what Weir did in this situation.

Giving up your life for others when it's chaos and imminent and adrenalin is pumping madly is one thing...but deliberately, consciously choosing to stay by yourself (and in stasis) in an abandoned city, underwater, in a strange place for 10,000 years??

Her choice took far more courage and fortitude (without denigrating the other's sacrifice), than the rest combined. That would be HORRIBLE. Can you imagine how it would feel to go into that box and push that button? Twice? Aging beyond the imagination of man while other creatures in the universe were born, lived, loved, procreated, accrued knowledge, and died - with no hope of rescue, joy, comfort, human contact, and probably anyone even ever knowing of her great sacrifice. The utter and desolate aloneness of it....

I would have walked right through that gate with the ancients and tried to work with Januus to re-build the time ship in order to hopefully jump back to my own time.

One thing about this episode though, Weir now knows what great courage and strength is within her and maybe we'll start to see her as a more confident leader.

Posted by: Aquila Feb 19th 2005, 9:44 PM

Very interesting look at things Sighfienerd. I thought this episode was fascinating in the fact that we got to see the living breathing Ancients in how they really were...the solemness and rambunctiousness at the same time yet with an air of humility and superiority intertwined. No doubt that we saw the one female counsel member who recorded the evacuation message when SG-A first came to Atlantis. I wonder what really happened to all of them...as for the development of Wier's character...all in due time.

Posted by: daffy Feb 19th 2005, 11:20 PM

atlantis was empty, maybe most people were already evacuated or something.


I was expecting more like 10,000+++ ancients packed awaiting the last couple hundred to make the trip to earth.


cool tho.

little nitpick, when weir went in cryo-thing the room looked totally different from when sheppard was in it in the first 10 minutes of the show

great episode..10/10

Posted by: The13thDoctor Feb 21st 2005, 12:13 PM

Best episode of Atlantis I have yet seen.  I am confused on one thing though.  I just saw it tonight - on SciFi channel.  And I was under the opinion that it was a new episode.  How come everyone else has seen it already?  And you too Arcady!  We both live in the same city!  How on earth did you see it in December?

Posted by: The13thDoctor Feb 21st 2005, 12:23 PM

I believe this is the best episode yet, but I am a hopeless time travel junky (as stated in a previous post).

The thought that they actually have leads to a potentially un-depleted ZPM is most satisfying. I did notice that the Time Travel pod appears to be the same prop as the one used in the SG1 episode a week or two ago. Perhaps we will be having more time travel!!!

I am wondering if anyone has caught on yet that the Wraith don't like salt water. I say this from a clue several episodes ago when Shepard was bitten by that wraith spider, the only thing that appeared to effect it was salt. Wasn't Atlantis buried in Salt Water initially? Coincidence???

Posted by: ancient01 Feb 21st 2005, 5:31 PM

I definitely liked this one. I think it was generally well written, it finally advanced Weir as a character, and it gave us a tease of the Ancient society. They waited entirely too long to work on advancing Weir's character, but I'm glad they finally got the job done. I'm excited again to see the rest of the season!!

Posted by: CitizenK Feb 23rd 2005, 8:59 AM

Before I Sleep was a surprizingly good episode. I thought it was much much better than Sanctuary. And finally a good episode that showed Dr Weir as something other than shrill. She was terrific. Now, while the time travel paradox issues are starting to bore me, all in all I liked the idea that a Weir from a parallel reality (and Rodney did a nice job of explaining that) was rescued by the Ancients only to help save an alternate reality of herself and team. That was interesting.

I don't know about the portrayal of the Ancients. Some how with all the massive buildup, seeing them in the flesh was a kind of let down. I kept thinking of them as ethereal beings and to see them as ordinary was sort of a mild shock.

I suppose I'm also surprized that they didn't have time for a romance between AU Weir and that Ancient scientist. oh well...

and you know, I really love the interaction between Sheppard and McKay. I loved their dialog to each other when they found out how each had died. too funny. I think the two characters do have the best chemistry together. And yeah, Dr Beckett is definitely the moral conscious of the team.

poor Lt Ford, is he ever going to get anything interesting to do ?

So, a 10,000 year old Dr Weir gets to save her team. I think the thing that makes me scratch my head most is why did she age ? she was in suspended animation, wasn't she ? I know that the scientist said she would be in a deep sleep and all her bodily functions would have slowed down, but even if you do the calculations, she still would have been dead long ago. we're just going to have to suspend all logical thinking on that point.

still... this was a really good episode. I think one of the best of the season.

8/10

Posted by: Mister Oragahn Feb 27th 2005, 9:15 PM

This episode spoiled most of stargate for me...I'm surprised I'm the only one to think this.

After 8 Seasons of SG1 + Atlantis of building the ancients up to be such an advanced race..they are just a bunch of assclows. They remind me so much of the Tollan with their smug attitude and non-interference policy, they need to take a page out of the asgard book.

All the non-interference crap they spout is a bit old when all the threats to earth are situations they caused or failed to deal with:

- Leaving Stargates for Goa'uld to enslave humans
- Letting Anubis get their technology
- Seeding Pegasus then failing to protect it from the Wraith

and we needed to clean up all of their mess...

They didnt strike me as an enlightened and advanced race in this episode, they seemed petty, small-minded, arrogant and cowardly.

Its lucky that there was a 2nd evolution of their race, cause the first were a bunch of losers.

All in all, the ancients (with the exception of the Scientist which reminded me of Mckay) were a huge let down.

(sorry to anyone this upsets, Im just really disappointed with stargate at the moment)

Posted by: Christy Apr 4th 2005, 12:07 AM

come on, Jar Jar was annoying...but cute and funny.
every place has a set of rules and commands...and these are put in place to not only keep themselves in place...but it can also be a good thing for other worlds

Posted by: Ilzy Jun 1st 2005, 7:22 AM

I haven't seen much of Atlantis but this episode and Sanctuary are somehow convincing me that it may be worth to watch after all

In this episode you can really see how Atlantis and SG1 go togeather in terms of plot. The whole time machine thing and introduction of its maker goes well with the very end of season 8 of SG1.

Posted by: Christy Jun 2nd 2005, 4:33 AM

but Atlantis and SG-1 don't have the same plot...except for exploring places they've never been to.
This episode was too slow for my liking but we learnt quite a bit so i was happy.

Posted by: dorien Jun 26th 2005, 8:36 AM

I was pleasantly surprised by this episode. I always thought that the team's first arrival at Atlantis was too easy. It was nice to see an alternate scenario where things went from bad to worse to total failure. Using time travel to fix the catastrophic problem...yes, it's a standard sci-fi plot device, but I just don't tire of it.

The episode did have one irritating element that has been there from the start...Ford and his hat. What is with this guy? He's like some preteen boy who won't be parted from his favorite team hat. And where is the show's Air Force advisor? In the military, hats (referred to as "covers") are not worn inside. But there's Ford, who apparently had nothing to do in the episode, wearing the damn thing all the time. Such a doofus. And I'm supposed to believe that he's a military officer. Yeah, right.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 1st 2005, 10:14 PM

What I liked about this episode was that we finally got into the character of Weir. I have felt that her character was a total waste up until now. While it moved slow, it was good, plus I liked all the extra information about the ancients.

Posted by: David_ofthe_Tar'e Jul 26th 2005, 5:40 PM

Loved this ep. We finanly got a real look at the Ancients. I've been haning for something like this for so long. Pretty much since the Fifth Race. They were pretty much what I had come to expect them to be. I really hope that we get to see Junas again. I really liked him, oOoo and the other Ancient Brunette, she was a hottie. Didn't like that Stuffy old guy with the white beard.

Posted by: althea Aug 2nd 2005, 11:12 AM

this may be something that should be classed as nitpicking but i haven't found the relevant thread yet, but it's really bugging me!

how did shepard know it was weirs birthday???

anyone point me to a relevant thread or make a suggestion?

maybe he's sweet on her and did some digging around or he has all the atlantis teams personal details in his filofax

Posted by: Dafmeister Aug 2nd 2005, 1:43 PM

this may be something that should be classed as nitpicking but i haven't found the relevant thread yet, but it's really bugging me!

how did shepard know it was weirs birthday???

anyone point me to a relevant thread or make a suggestion?

maybe he's sweet on her and did some digging around or he has all the atlantis teams personal details in his filofax 

Posted by: starryeyes Nov 15th 2005, 11:51 AM

A very good episode. One of the best of the season so far. I loved learning more about the ancients. I hope we see more of them in other episodes.
How unsettling though for Dr. Weir to see her old self lying there dying. I would be mighty freaked out. I loved the whole time travel senerio and the fact that she was able to help out her future self and save the city.
One other thing I was wondering though. I didn't think two identical particles, I mean both Weir's could inhabit the same space in time. I don't have any scientific knowledge about this so maybe I'm just picking up this from other Sci-fi shows. lol. Anyway very good episode.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Nov 19th 2005, 11:03 PM

No. You are thinking of where 1 person comes from on reality and the otther from this 1. This is nto the case hare. It is like they are twinss. They are both from this reality just different time periods.

Posted by: starryeyes Nov 23rd 2005, 7:48 AM

Ah yes, that makes sense. I was thinking of the two Carter's and the fact that the parallel universe Carter was suffering the effects of entrophy. I think that's what was said anyway. Different situation with the Weir's. This time travel stuff can give you a headache, but I love it.

Posted by: blackbelt83 Feb 1st 2006, 2:37 AM

ok this was a cool ep. I really liked it seeing them go back in time and actually meetint the ancents. I would have had a million questions. I cant belive they wouldent send her back to the futuer. also was it just me or did the bald old guy who seemed to be incharge.

Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 1st 2006, 7:36 AM

QUOTE(blackbelt83 @ Feb 1st 2006, 7:37 AM)

also was it just me or did the bald old guy who seemed to be incharge.

» Click for Spoiler «

he played the merlin ancent.

» Click for Spoiler «

The actor who played Moros, Matthew Walker, played Moros in this episode and Merlin in 'Avalon'. He also played Roham in 'Touchstone'.

Posted by: Dafmeister Mar 13th 2006, 6:25 PM

QUOTE(Sheppard007 @ Mar 13th 2006, 10:50 PM)

The Ancients are so advanced, but I am a little surprised why Janus did not explain how they could Recharge or Manufacture a ZPM. I mean these things have to come from somewhere.

They wouldnt have given the Atlantis team a mthod of creating a ZPM (the one thing they wanted most) that early in the season.

QUOTE

I am very surprised as well that the ancients did not put the city asleep with Weir did. It was the ancients intention to return back I believe, but am just surprised that they kept the light burning

The Ancient never intended to return. The hologram in 'Rising' said that Atlantis was left in the hopes that Humans would one day find it.

QUOTE

What I am also puzzled about is why Weir had to switch the ZPM's one-by-one as the cit's power resources still worked when they arrived the first time. If Janus just installed the fail-safety mechanism it would have worked as well.

Then what? The entire premise of the episode would have been spoiled.

QUOTE

For the language part I did not even notice it until this form. I found it not that surprising that they speak English as well, a lot of people of earthlings speak more than one language. However I seem to remember from the Frozen episode that the frozen woman learnt very quickly another language?

The point is that the English language hadnt even evolved at that point in time, so they Ancients should not have been speaking English.

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 16th 2006, 11:21 AM

QUOTE(slayr-cxf50 @ Oct 16th 2006, 4:53 PM)

Oh yeah, whoever said that the mysticism surrounding the Ancients was destroyed in this episode - I agree with you. Why did they have to show the Ancients as just crappy people?

The Ancients are essentially Human and are capable of making the same mistakes as Humans do now. I prefer that TPTB decided to show that the Ancients aren't perfect, it makes them more interesting.

Posted by: eXcalibur Oct 23rd 2006, 11:52 PM

QUOTE(GuNdj @ Dec 7th 2004, 2:54 AM)

I third the motion.

Great episode!
I was concerned that being a time travel episode they would screw it up, but luckily they didn't and instead pulled it off wonderfully.

Although the nitpicker in me is feeling a little squirmish as it kind of contradicts an episode of SG1 involving time travel as well as not explaining why all the Ancients are all speaking English instead of Ancient!
LOL, they could have at least shown them giving Dr Weir a translator or something before they started speaking.

But that stuff's material for another forum, and not that important anyway.

One thing I think that was missing from the episode that would have made it even better, was showing the transport ship being taken out. It would have made it more emotionally moving to see the people that were about to die as well as being extremely cool looking! I wanted to know what their transport ships looked like.

Best episode of Atlantis so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention that the Back to the Future references were great too! Love those movies. Janus's ship has a flux capacitor! That had me laughing pretty intensly.

So I'm a newcomer to the forums, but I agree - great episode.

Not why I'm writing though. I also had a nitpick about Dr. Weir being able to communicate with the Ancients. While there's probably something to be said for the idea that the Ancient (Altaran?) language was an ancestor of (modern) English (one potential explanation for why everyone in the Milky Way can speak English), I still think 10,000 years prior that derivation wouldn't yet have occured. Certainly not enough for the communication that occured in While I Sleep.


So, I'm thinking the translation device or at least some reference would have been cool (like in SG1's "The Nox").

Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)