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Stargate Information Archive _ Atlantis Season 3 _ 318 - Submersion
Posted by: Arcady Dec 20th 2006, 9:22 PM
Season 3, Episode 18 - Submersion
Air date: 2007
The team goes searching for an alternate power source beneath the surface of the ocean.
http://www.sg1archive.com/atlantis/s3.shtml#318 | http://www.sg1archive.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=15263 | Teaser
(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)
Posted by: Revan Jan 23rd 2007, 10:04 AM
A Wraith Queen... well I didn't see that coming before the episode had aired...
Pretty good episode overall, I didn't see the trick they played on the Queen at the end coming, so thats good. Kinda wondering why they brought Weir along with them to the bottom of the ocean...
AND, are they going to be doing anything with the Wraith cruiser... I liked it when Rodney made the crack about Shep destroying the Cruiser soon after he would repair it, thereby rendering all his hard work irrelevent.
Posted by: baggers1982 Jan 23rd 2007, 10:22 AM
A Wraith Queen... well I didn't see that coming before the episode had aired...
Pretty good episode overall, I didn't see the trick they played on the Queen at the end coming, so thats good. Kinda wondering why they brought Weir along with them to the bottom of the ocean...
AND, are they going to be doing anything with the Wraith cruiser... I liked it when Rodney made the crack about Shep destroying the Cruiser soon after he would repair it, thereby rendering all his hard work irrelevent.
I was wondering exactly the same thing, we've got a practically intact wraith cruiser just waiting to be used. it would have been nice to see them actually retrieve the ship.
And i hope we get to find out more about the ancient technology down at the bottom of the ocean, i'm sure it will return, probably next time we haven't got a zpm.
A pretty good episode, 8/10.
Posted by: Revan Jan 23rd 2007, 12:56 PM
Why did the Jumper windshield shatter when Ronan accidentally shot it? Is it only armored from the outside?
Posted by: Pitry Jan 23rd 2007, 1:03 PM
God, what a shockingly bad episode. Sigh.
First, the distinct feeling of Somewhere in the Beginning of Season 1.... Hey, we've managed to see the Wraith before without repeating this nonsense, what in the world made them go back to that? I thought after Michael and Common Ground SGA finally learned to deal with its bad guys in a sensible, jjust a tad bit more 3d way... but no. Back to silly Wraith queens trying to be scary.
It jsut didn't work for me. The entire concept, the entire backsell at the end - there's using it as a story device and then there's over doing it and in bad taste and that's basically what happened here.
I hope this episode was supposed to be 17 and Sunday 18. Or that it's a one time glitch. I certainly hope this complete adn utter lack of mention of a main hcaracter who just died an episode before isn't a sign to what's gonna happen in next seasons. Hell... Line in the Sand spoilers
Teyla... once again, they've fallen to the exact same trap they did with Ronon. It's not development if she stays inside her box, even if they do give her - finally, this season! - something to do. It's only development if she's forced out of her box. Much like Ronon didn't really gain anything to his character in Sateda, Teyla is still the exact same person she was before Submersion. Sorry, they're goin to have to do ebtter than that. Where's Teyla's equivalent of Tao of Rodney? of Common Ground? Of Phantoms or the Real World? Even in Sunday we hardly got to see anything.
Erm, good parts: Elizabeth. Sh got to play a bit with Teyla and banter a bit with Sheppard. Zelenca not knowing what was going on around him was also lovely. he does it so well. Didn't even get exxcited about Rodney this episode, he wasn;t his funny usual self.
Where's the season 3 I've learned to ove so much? Hoping for ebtter luck next week.
Posted by: AngelofDarkness34994 Jan 23rd 2007, 3:41 PM
I thought it was pretty good episode. I gave it a 8/10 because some of it was predictable. I love this episode it had a lot of Teyla in it but after Teyla finished doing her thing were she tries to tap in to the wraith minds or see if they are really near by at the beginning I knew the wraith had taken over her mind. But all in all I loved Teyla in this episode and thought it was a pretty good episode.
Posted by: WaterDweller Jan 23rd 2007, 5:40 PM
Ooooh, Ancient underwater-suits. 
You'd think Ancient technology would be a little less bulky. 
Posted by: Revan Jan 23rd 2007, 5:47 PM
Ooooh, Ancient underwater-suits.
You'd think Ancient technology would be a little less bulky. Nah...
Those suits were probably equipped with propulsion units, so the wearers could make repairs all over the station. AND, they were at an extreme depth... a thicker suit is necessary so you don't get crushed like a tin can underfoot.
Posted by: That General Guy Jan 23rd 2007, 9:50 PM
Regrettably i'm starting to think, that all the Stargate series are coming to end...i mean the more i think about it the more i realize, they just can't do it any more, i mean they've run out of cool new technologies to wow us with. They've done everything Super Power Soures, Fast + Powerful Ships, Advanced Weapons, Cloaking/Phase Shift Technology, and its never enough, we're always one planet against a universe gone nuts. Truthfully character development and small victories can only get you so far and we're out of ways to win big victories. In both Atlantis and Sg1, we've got almost no useful allies left (Ascard excluded of course but we haven't seen much of them lately), and the only way we can win the many wars we are engaged in is to use either some super disabling weapon distributed using the Stargate (ie super bomb, replicator disruptor, or wraith gas) or too become mass murders (which they won't do for ethical reasons).
This ep was the perfect example of that same formula as always...Advanced Tech Cool; Unexpected Problem results in the death of pointless extras; we're cut off with no hope of escape and time running out; we hatch a crazy plan that saves us at the last moment; We get some technology that will help us...a little in some upcoming battle (in this case probably First Strike); End ep. The only exception is character development eps and even they're starting to drag a bit.
I'm starting to think the switch to direct to DVD movies might not be such a bad idea...and that is saying something.
I'm hoping for the third series they do a Voyager-Like series, that way we don't get stuck with any particular type of Tech or Enemy over the long term. This way we can get back to the Glory Days of Stargate where we explore new planets and met new people. Maybe something like hey now that the Orii-Alteran war is over lets trace their path from the Orii galaxy to our own, see what happened along the way. And just for kicks lets not take an F-304, lets take an intersting Alien ship, with unexpected surprises in store for us.
Thoughts?
Posted by: thehighcommander Jan 24th 2007, 1:18 AM
where was dr beckett? did i miss that part of the episode? Paul McGillion was credited as being in that episode
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 24th 2007, 6:07 AM
where was dr beckett? did i miss that part of the episode? Paul McGillion was credited as being in that episode
They didn't want to change the credits yet... What, for the last three episodes of the season? Beckett is dead, people should learn to get over that...
Coming back to this episode... It was meh... How many times do we have to see Teyla concentrating into Wraith minds? The queens of the Wraith seem not very impressive as usual. And there was nothing new in this episode. I think I had quite enough of the Wraith too...
Overall: 44/100
Posted by: Pitry Jan 24th 2007, 9:10 AM
They didn't want to change the credits yet... What, for the last three episodes of the season? Beckett is dead, people should learn to get over that...
Coming back to this episode... It was meh... How many times do we have to see Teyla concentrating into Wraith minds? The queens of the Wraith seem not very impressive as usual. And there was nothing new in this episode. I think I had quite enough of the Wraith too...
Overall: 44/100
Things always look bad when you have a character that's concentrating into someone else's mind. it was horrible in Babylon 5 and it's horrid in SGA, too. I'd have expected them to stop doing it, then. And if they do, in a better constructed episode ;)
I don't think it's about enough of the wraith - rather enough of the wraith as they are portrayed in Submersion. that's what I meant when I said they regressed to season 1 - one dimensional cliche bad guys - I mean, enough. It's much better when they put more substance into them, in the likes of Michael or Common Ground. For the life of me I can't understand what made them go back to this sillyness.
Posted by: Revan Jan 24th 2007, 10:13 AM
Things always look bad when you have a character that's concentrating into someone else's mind. it was horrible in Babylon 5 and it's horrid in SGA, too. I'd have expected them to stop doing it, then. And if they do, in a better constructed episode ;)
I don't think it's about enough of the wraith - rather enough of the wraith as they are portrayed in Submersion. that's what I meant when I said they regressed to season 1 - one dimensional cliche bad guys - I mean, enough. It's much better when they put more substance into them, in the likes of Michael or Common Ground. For the life of me I can't understand what made them go back to this sillyness.
Well.... it could be argued both ways... either she is one-dimensional because the Wraith are one-dimensional creatures, or because she has been on the ocean floor for 10 millenia.
Of course, I would think being there for so long would piss her off, and make her severely angry and more dangerous...
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 24th 2007, 12:55 PM
where was dr beckett? did i miss that part of the episode? Paul McGillion was credited as being in that episode
So, are you changing your stance about the ascension?
I thought this ep was just ok. I totally thought they were actually going to fly the wraith ship out of the Ocean for a second, but I realized that the Wraith would have just done that. At the time the ship was crash, the entire race fleet was together, so they should have been able to either rescue them, or tell them how to repair the damage.
What ever happened to the whole saltwater thing?
They're searching for an underwater facility and they don't detect a nearby ship?
I wouldn't have thought that the ancients used big bulky suits like that, when they have personal shields...
Posted by: Revan Jan 24th 2007, 1:01 PM
What ever happened to the whole saltwater thing?
I wouldn't have thought that the ancients used big bulky suits like that, when they have personal shields...
What saltwater thing?
Well... they have to be able to breathe... and at that depth, the shield wouldn't last very long...
Posted by: rkenshin Jan 24th 2007, 1:18 PM
saltwater thing came from the ep, 38 minutes (season 1) regarding the part where Ford was trying out different things to get the bug off Sheppard and Beckett commenting on the saltwater aspect when that happened
Posted by: More Cowbell! Jan 24th 2007, 1:19 PM
It's a safety measure, so you can be thrown clear of the accident.
Same reason people don't wear seatbelts, lol
Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jan 24th 2007, 1:30 PM
I wonder what happens now... 
Are we going to use that power station for something... Or are we going to
blow it away... Or forget that it is down there or...
And same with the Cruiser... Are we going to use this opportinity and study
the Wraith tech... Or are we going to blow it away or just forget that it even
exists as we usually do when we find something potentially usefull...
And those underwater-suits were just ridiculous... 
Posted by: Revan Jan 24th 2007, 1:32 PM
And those underwater-suits were just ridiculous...
They were deep-sea pressure suits.
Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jan 24th 2007, 3:36 PM
They were deep-sea pressure suits.
What ever... In any case they look very awkward and primitive... Several
million years older design than what I would expect from the Ancients...
Even we could propably make more advanced "deep-sea pressure suits"
in the shows universe... (Most likely even in our real universe...)
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 24th 2007, 4:01 PM
I wonder what happens now...
Are we going to use that power station for something... Or are we going to
blow it away... Or forget that it is down there or...
And same with the Cruiser... Are we going to use this opportinity and study
the Wraith tech... Or are we going to blow it away or just forget that it even
exists as we usually do when we find something potentially usefull...
And those underwater-suits were just ridiculous...
They said that they would remain there to continue the study on the Ancient platform... Perhaps it will help us somehow...
I wonder what would you expect from the Ancients though... Personal shields? Revan just explained that they would drain very fast at that depth.
Posted by: Sibylle Jan 24th 2007, 4:11 PM
They said that they would remain there to continue the study on the Ancient platform... Perhaps it will help us somehow...
I wonder what would you expect from the Ancients though... Personal shields? Revan just explained that they would drain very fast at that depth.
Teleporterts shouldn't be too hard. If a shuttle can communicate with the surface it would be possible to make a teleporter to the surface and back.....it would save a lot of trouble and time
There was no need to swim so deep, a shuttle is fine i guess.
I wonder what we're doing with the Wraith Cruiser. I would make it a main topic of research and investigation if i were Weir (wich ofcourse i'm not). But I geuss we use it to safe atlantis from being destroyed, and that we lose it in the process. Just as we did with all the other ships we got.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 24th 2007, 4:25 PM
Teleporterts shouldn't be too hard. If a shuttle can communicate with the surface it would be possible to make a teleporter to the surface and back.....it would save a lot of trouble and time
There was no need to swim so deep, a shuttle is fine i guess.
I wonder what we're doing with the Wraith Cruiser. I would make it a main topic of research and investigation if i were Weir (wich ofcourse i'm not). But I geuss we use it to safe atlantis from being destroyed, and that we lose it in the process. Just as we did with all the other ships we got.
There are some problems though... The platform is pretty deep... Communication with Atlantis was one of them... We are the ones that adjusted PJ for underwater, so the Ancients used something else for it... what??? They didn't see to have beaming technology like in Atlantis on the platform...
The second problem is that I was referring to underwater exploration... They needed the suits for maintaining the platform from the exterior... Kind of like water-nauts...
Posted by: Revan Jan 24th 2007, 4:33 PM
What ever... In any case they look very awkward and primitive... Several
million years older design than what I would expect from the Ancients...
Even we could propably make more advanced "deep-sea pressure suits"
in the shows universe... (Most likely even in our real universe...)
Why? There is no reason to do so... the principle that those suits operate on is fairly inflexible... You get squashed by water pressure without substantial protection... and those suits were more futuristic or contemporary to that what is available in our society.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 24th 2007, 5:59 PM
There are some problems though... The platform is pretty deep... Communication with Atlantis was one of them... We are the ones that adjusted PJ for underwater, so the Ancients used something else for it... what??? They didn't see to have beaming technology like in Atlantis on the platform...
maybe there is a set of rings in the station.
Why? There is no reason to do so... the principle that those suits operate on is fairly inflexible... You get squashed by water pressure without substantial protection... and those suits were more futuristic or contemporary to that what is available in our society.
I agree. I thought that the personal shield might be "cooler" in that situation, but we are talking about a lot of pressure, and energy conservation does become a problem. I am suprised that the cruiser wasn't crushed.
Posted by: Catania Jan 24th 2007, 6:13 PM
There are some problems though... The platform is pretty deep... Communication with Atlantis was one of them... We are the ones that adjusted PJ for underwater, so the Ancients used something else for it... what??? They didn't see to have beaming technology like in Atlantis on the platform...
But the platform had a docking port for the PJ That is what I dont understand, I saw atleast 2.
Posted by: fan_83 Jan 24th 2007, 6:20 PM
perhaps thats for the underwater jumpers..
i would guess that the ancients had 2 types of jumper, normal and ones modified for underwater use..
that would make sense for the underwater base back in 311..
and there might be transporter or rings, but they were still in the process of exploring it...
also its nearly impossible to begin up the cruiser.. do you know how big is that bloody thing.. i would guess they would repair it and then fly it up
regarding the salt water thing
you forget the saltwater only work on the exposed skin of the bug and not on the outer shell, i would guess the wraith skin prevents the salt from affecting it or the human dna, reduces the side effect
we now know that a wraith queen is capable of extreme environments..wow
Posted by: Revan Jan 24th 2007, 6:52 PM
perhaps thats for the underwater jumpers..
i would guess that the ancients had 2 types of jumper, normal and ones modified for underwater use..
that would make sense for the underwater base back in 311..
and there might be transporter or rings, but they were still in the process of exploring it...
also its nearly impossible to begin up the cruiser.. do you know how big is that bloody thing.. i would guess they would repair it and then fly it up
regarding the salt water thing
you forget the saltwater only work on the exposed skin of the bug and not on the outer shell, i would guess the wraith skin prevents the salt from affecting it or the human dna, reduces the side effect
we now know that a wraith queen is capable of extreme environments..wow
All Jumpers work underwater to a certain depth. They outfitted one with a grappler for a specific mission.
So no, one type of Jumper, multiple uses.
It is structurally intact... the sublight drive was out of power, so it couldn't be flown out.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 24th 2007, 7:28 PM
i would guess that the ancients had 2 types of jumper, normal and ones modified for underwater use..
if the Ancient made specific jumpers for underwater use, then we would just call it a regular jumper, we wouldn't call it a "modified" jumper.
But like Revan said, all of the jumpers have submarine capabilities.
Posted by: Raxor Jan 25th 2007, 7:03 AM
i liked this ep, though its nothing i really havent seen before in one form or the other. Just a new take on it for me.
I would hope they do something with the platform and cruiser in the future.
and why would a wraith queen be on a cruiser anyway, surely a hive ship would be much better for her...
**1/2,
Posted by: Revan Jan 25th 2007, 9:26 AM
i liked this ep, though its nothing i really havent seen before in one form or the other. Just a new take on it for me.
I would hope they do something with the platform and cruiser in the future.
and why would a wraith queen be on a cruiser anyway, surely a hive ship would be much better for her...
**1/2,
The Crusier is a smaller target, I suppose...? Though that didn't really work, they still got shot down.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 25th 2007, 12:13 PM
I think she was on a cruiser for the simple fact that they didn't want to give us another hive, and they knew that we could not miss a Hive parked that close to where they were going.
Posted by: Sibylle Jan 25th 2007, 12:33 PM
Well a hive would be cool 
I hope we get somethig out of the cruiser, weapons or some darts. Maybe some other techniques that are quite useful, like new ways of powerdistribution etc.
I always dislike the fact that we get cool stuff (Hive ship, cruiser, Ancient warship, other ancient ship, thousends of drones etc.) and that nothing is done with it. McKay is capable of solving the most complicated problems when it comes to ancient technology (he's always doing the impossible) but he isn't capable of making some effective weapons (that not use 30 bullets per wraith) of some means of attacking....
I would say: set up the drone factory, make sure there is a nice constant flow of drones, and equip all shuttles with them....... find out how to copy the human shield we've seen two times, give it a powersource (like a crystal from SG-1 from a Ori weapon).....
But nooo, we use the technology one time and then it disappears, i geuss the same will hapen to the Cruiser in ep20.
Does someone know when 19 is aired?
Posted by: Gate Jumper Jan 25th 2007, 2:03 PM
I always dislike the fact that we get cool stuff (Hive ship, cruiser, Ancient warship, other ancient ship, thousends of drones etc.) and that nothing is done with it. McKay is capable of solving the most complicated problems when it comes to ancient technology (he's always doing the impossible) but he isn't capable of making some effective weapons (that not use 30 bullets per wraith) of some means of attacking....
At least the gun didnt fall apart this time
Rodney is getting better with the shooting thing, but he did scream for help like he does everytime, that was funny. I think that cruiser will at some point get blown up or be sacraficed to either save Sheppards team, the Deadalus, or Atlantis, can anyone tell me the average life-span of a wraith ship in the hands of the Atlantis team??
Good episode though, I wish they explained why the Ancients ditched the station, I guess they'll explain more about it later...
Posted by: Revan Jan 25th 2007, 2:12 PM
I think she was on a cruiser for the simple fact that they didn't want to give us another hive, and they knew that we could not miss a Hive parked that close to where they were going.
Would a Hive have survived impact?
At least the gun didnt fall apart this time
Rodney is getting better with the shooting thing, but he did scream for help like he does everytime, that was funny. I think that cruiser will at some point get blown up or be sacraficed to either save Sheppards team, the Deadalus, or Atlantis, can anyone tell me the average life-span of a wraith ship in the hands of the Atlantis team??
Good episode though, I wish they explained why the Ancients ditched the station, I guess they'll explain more about it later...
They might not even get the Cruiser off the ocean, and nothing may come of the deep-sea platform...
Posted by: poundpuppy29 Jan 25th 2007, 5:41 PM
I liked this EP I thought it was great character development for Weir and Teyla I like the friendship that is there between them. I also thought it was funny when Teyla kicked Ronon there OMG I know it was the Queen in control at the time but still. I like how they paired my ships like they should.
Posted by: Lagger Jan 26th 2007, 5:32 AM
why didnt the ancients just connect atlantis(after it was sunk) to the underwater platform, and run the sheilds of it forever
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 26th 2007, 7:46 AM
why didnt the ancients just connect atlantis(after it was sunk) to the underwater platform, and run the sheilds of it forever
And do what? Sit in their city for thousands of years doing nothing... Blocking the gate so that Wraith don't dial it, and waiting for all the Wraith to go back to sleep? The Ancients are explorers, I don't think they would have settled for such a life, and plus, they desired ascension.
Posted by: minimax Jan 26th 2007, 8:06 AM
Why did the Jumper windshield shatter when Ronan accidentally shot it? Is it only armored from the outside?
good question,
but jumpers " are not armored ", there are shilds, and those shilds could be active or inactive...
+jumper was inactive
at least
a wraith ship for our people
and a preaty good one
submersion was fine. litle action, little horror, some fun
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 26th 2007, 8:43 AM
at least
a wraith ship for our people
and a preaty good one
submersion was fine. litle action, little horror, some fun
You could have edited your previous post... There is an edit button for a while under each post you make... Instead of making a new post right under your previous post, you should try to edit it... Double posting is not allowed.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 26th 2007, 12:15 PM
good question,
but jumpers " are not armored ", there are shilds, and those shilds could be active or inactive...
+jumper was inactive
They jumpers were not originally sheilded. Mckay reverse engineers the cloaking device to emit a sheild in the same way that they changed Atlantis' sheild to cloak the city.
Maybe the windshield came crashing down because there were a rapid pressure change with occurred at the impact of the energy black, and the entire weight of the ocean came crashing in.
Posted by: glom Jan 26th 2007, 12:39 PM
64% Full of telegraphy, but alright.
ACCESSORISATION OF THE WEEK: Since when do Puddle Jumpers have strobe lights?
NEW THERMODYNAMICS OF THE WEEK: Geothermal power is good, but not as good as the kind of power we would be expecting from a ZPM.
NEW DIVISION OF LABOUR OF THE WEEK: Why is Weir along? As leader of Atlantis, she should be there leaving Shepherd to lead the exploration team.
NEW RADIOTELEPHONY OF THE WEEK: If everyone is on the same channel, Zelenka should have heard the conservation between Shepherd and McKay about the first loss of power.
EFFECTIVENESS OF THE WEEK: The direction to make the Wraith demon look creepy was kind of cool.
MYSTERY OF THE WEEK: Or of the series rather. Why doesn't Teyla use contractions? It makes her dialogue sound very forced.
HOMOPHOBIA OF THE WEEK: Shepherd hates queens. I spit upon his bigotry.
PITY MONGERING OF THE WEEK: The scene with Teyla begging for pity from Weir for her guilt was rather poorly done.
REDSHIRTS OF THE WEEK: Hands up who didn't see the deaths of the other scientists coming last week! Playing on the concept with McKay not knowing their names was cool though.
EARNED PAYCHECK OF THE WEEK: I was slightly more impressed than usual with the set design. Not sure why, but it just seemed better.
ATLANTIS UNINTELLIGENCE OF THE WEEK:
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 26th 2007, 1:00 PM
100% no longer entertained by by this posting gimmick.
64% Full of telegraphy, but alright.
I don't remember there being any telelgraphs in this episode.
It seems to be extremely effective in Inferno (until the citizens misused the shield).
Well, if she wasn't along for the ride, she wouldn't have been in this ep at all. As a main character, she deserves to go off base from time to time.
Posted by: Revan Jan 26th 2007, 7:06 PM
good question,
but jumpers " are not armored ", there are shilds, and those shilds could be active or inactive...
+jumper was inactive
at least
a wraith ship for our people
and a preaty good one
submersion was fine. litle action, little horror, some fun
Are you SG's sister?
Jumpers are somewhat armored. They were not using the adapted shield generator in this episode, the platform was not deep enough.
Glom, why do you make posts like that?
Posted by: minimax Jan 27th 2007, 8:46 AM
They jumpers were not originally sheilded. Mckay reverse engineers the cloaking device to emit a sheild in the same way that they changed Atlantis' sheild to cloak the city.
Maybe the windshield came crashing down because there were a rapid pressure change with occurred at the impact of the energy black, and the entire weight of the ocean came crashing in.
pardone mua
am getting old. and I do forget sometimes
+ maybe McKay modified Ronons gun+
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 28th 2007, 1:37 AM
They jumpers were not originally sheilded. Mckay reverse engineers the cloaking device to emit a sheild in the same way that they changed Atlantis' sheild to cloak the city.
Maybe the windshield came crashing down because there were a rapid pressure change with occurred at the impact of the energy black, and the entire weight of the ocean came crashing in.
Y noone talks about this jackass' poor grammar? I bet he didn't even realize those little mistakes.
Mckay reverse engineered the cloaking devices to emit a sheild in the same way that they changed Atlantis' sheild to cloak the city.
Maybe the windshield came crashing down because there was a rapid pressure change which occurred at the impact point of the energy blast, and then the entire weight of the ocean came crashing in.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 28th 2007, 4:42 AM
Y noone talks about this jackass' poor grammar? I bet he didn't even realize those little mistakes.
Mckay reverse engineered the cloaking devices to emit a sheild in the same way that they changed Atlantis' sheild to cloak the city.
Maybe the windshield came crashing down because there was a rapid pressure change which occurred at the impact point of the energy blast, and then the entire weight of the ocean came crashing in.
It still makes sense to me, not gonna change that... But what's with the sheild... You spelled it like that both in the quoted post and in this post, two times in this one. It's shield.
Posted by: Lagger Jan 28th 2007, 4:55 AM
the surprise friend was definitly surprising...
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 28th 2007, 11:54 AM
It still makes sense to me, not gonna change that... But what's with the sheild... You spelled it like that both in the quoted post and in this post, two times in this one. It's shield.
Lol, that's what I was saying earlier about people correcting their own work. They sometimes don't see stuff like that, because their mind auto-corrects it...
I have been wondering if the Platform was built before or after they sunk the city. If it was done before they sunk the city, why wasn't the city put closer to the platform.?
We know the technology worked, they used it on at least one other planet.
Even if it did work, I guess they couldn't have hooked the city up to it, because they would have known that it would cause and 'Inferno' situation.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 28th 2007, 12:05 PM
Lol, that's what I was saying earlier about people correcting their own work. They sometimes don't see stuff like that, because their mind auto-corrects it...
I have been wondering if the Platform was built before or after they sunk the city. If it was done before they sunk the city, why wasn't the city put closer to the platform.?
We know the technology worked, they used it on at least one other planet.
Even if it did work, I guess they couldn't have hooked the city up to it, because they would have known that it would cause and 'Inferno' situation.
The platform could have been built before sinking the city. As I remember in Before I Sleep, the city was already submerged for a while... I'm thinking that they've done that with not much time before Weir arrived, and only with the purpose of evacuating the city, but there is an empty timeline hole, that can be filled by the writers.
I'm also thinking that the platform may have been built much time before the war with the Wraith, and that in time, the city may have drifted away from the spot.
Posted by: Gotanks Jan 28th 2007, 12:45 PM
The platform could have been built before sinking the city. As I remember in Before I Sleep, the city was already submerged for a while... I'm thinking that they've done that with not much time before Weir arrived, and only with the purpose of evacuating the city, but there is an empty timeline hole, that can be filled by the writers.
I'm also thinking that the platform may have been built much time before the war with the Wraith, and that in time, the city may have drifted away from the spot.
I was thinking the same thing
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 28th 2007, 1:39 PM
Gotanks, is your name an intentional play off of Gotenks, or is that just a coincidence that is bugging me?
Posted by: Gotanks Jan 28th 2007, 3:05 PM
Gotanks, is your name an intentional play off of Gotenks, or is that just a coincidence that is bugging me?
The first xD I used to be a DBZ fan, always used this as a nickname ever since.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 28th 2007, 3:26 PM
The first xD I used to be a DBZ fan, always used this as a nickname ever since.
USED TO BE??? There should be no used to be... you should be a fan for life
Did I miss them explain how the energy was going to get from the platform to the city?
Also, does this prove how difficult it was to make ZPMs? If it were easy, why were the Ancients fiddling with an alternate powersource?
EDIT: Maybe the guy that makes ZPMs sided with the Ori, and the Ancients were just using ZPMs that they had in storage, but they started to run out?
Posted by: FreshPez Jan 28th 2007, 9:43 PM
Y'all can dump on this episode all you want, but the banter in the puddle jumper in the opening sequence saved it.
"ya know, SHUT UP."
"YOU SHUT UP"
Epic.
As for comments about coming across technology, Atlantis has a full ZPM and a full complement of drones. I look forward to the day these get fired off.
Posted by: glom Jan 29th 2007, 5:57 PM
Glom, why do you make posts like that?
Why not?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 29th 2007, 8:17 PM
Why not?
It wasn't a question like why do you use cold water to brush your teeth... You have a very different and distinct way of posting, it didn't happen accidentally, and we are curious why you take the time to do it. I personally am not entertained by it.
Posted by: minimax Jan 30th 2007, 4:28 AM
Lol, that's what I was saying earlier about people correcting their own work. They sometimes don't see stuff like that, because their mind auto-corrects it...
I have been wondering if the Platform was built before or after they sunk the city. If it was done before they sunk the city, why wasn't the city put closer to the platform.?
We know the technology worked, they used it on at least one other planet.
Even if it did work, I guess they couldn't have hooked the city up to it, because they would have known that it would cause and 'Inferno' situation.
you p[eople do everything but makeing coments about the SG project.
ofcorse there will be some fans bornd out of england, and didnt have luck to learn english so good.
I am in need to tell my opinion about SG:
it is not a real proffesional pictures
same actors play difrent roles in diferent episodes
it is a try to wake the people, and wormhole X
was a cry because didnt succseeded.
is there somebody who thinks there are no alians
maybe not wrait but storye about ancients is posible
Posted by: Revan Jan 30th 2007, 1:48 PM
you p[eople do everything but makeing coments about the SG project.
ofcorse there will be some fans bornd out of england, and didnt have luck to learn english so good.
I am in need to tell my opinion about SG:
it is not a real proffesional pictures
same actors play difrent roles in diferent episodes
it is a try to wake the people, and wormhole X
was a cry because didnt succseeded.
is there somebody who thinks there are no alians
maybe not wrait but storye about ancients is posible
Isn't England like.. the birthplace of the English language? I know a few people from there, and they speak superb english.
The spelling there is atrocious, and I would like to know what the point of your post was. Are you high on drugs or drunk or something?
Was Dickinson killed, or what... he seemed to just disappear.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 30th 2007, 1:57 PM
you p[eople do everything but makeing coments about the SG project.
ofcorse there will be some fans bornd out of england, and didnt have luck to learn english so good.
I am in need to tell my opinion about SG:
it is not a real proffesional pictures
same actors play difrent roles in diferent episodes
it is a try to wake the people, and wormhole X
was a cry because didnt succseeded.
is there somebody who thinks there are no alians
maybe not wrait but storye about ancients is posible
I am probably one of those people, but you may be the poster child.
I have no idea what you were trying to say in that post, beside complaining about us being off topic. I can tell from you extensive post history that you have a great idea of what is considered regular conversation here. You are in a perfect position to critique.
Posted by: FL410 Jan 30th 2007, 3:42 PM
As to why the station wasn't near the city, I think they said it was mobile, which is why MacKay couldn't find it at the start of the ep. It looked like it might have legs from what I saw.
I think its good the writers are showing a little more ancient technology, and exploring the atlantian planet a bit more too. I think the show needs it for its longevity - otherwise it might fall into the mould of 'saving other people's asses we've only just met and don't really care about' every week.
Maybe if we could have a bit more fill to some of the other aspects and people of the 'expedition' (I say that in inverted commas because at the moment all it seems to be is 5 guys and a lot of red-shirts) - then it wouldn't be like Shepard's team are the ones finding everything and saving the day all the time, which seems a tad unrealistic (that they are on an alien world fighting aliens with alien technology accepted, of course )
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jan 30th 2007, 5:08 PM
As to why the station wasn't near the city, I think they said it was mobile, which is why MacKay couldn't find it at the start of the ep. It looked like it might have legs from what I saw.
I think its good the writers are showing a little more ancient technology, and exploring the atlantian planet a bit more too. I think the show needs it for its longevity - otherwise it might fall into the mould of 'saving other people's asses we've only just met and don't really care about' every week.
Maybe if we could have a bit more fill to some of the other aspects and people of the 'expedition' (I say that in inverted commas because at the moment all it seems to be is 5 guys and a lot of red-shirts) - then it wouldn't be like Shepard's team are the ones finding everything and saving the day all the time, which seems a tad unrealistic (that they are on an alien world fighting aliens with alien technology accepted, of course
)lol, inverted commas are called apostrohpies .
I think you make a good point about the dynamics of the show. Carter explains in an SG1 ep that the flagship teams is more likely to be on a dangerous mission. I think the audience would lose interest if different characters were getting into trouble each week. You wouldn't feel connected to the "other guys" (pun intended).
Posted by: glom Feb 1st 2007, 12:57 PM
It wasn't a question like why do you use cold water to brush your teeth... You have a very different and distinct way of posting, it didn't happen accidentally, and we are curious why you take the time to do it. I personally am not entertained by it.
I had no idea conformity was a prerequisite for posting here. I'm copycatting the Cynic's Corner. It doesn't take any time at all. I come up with ideas while I watch the episode then click post when the episode ends.
Posted by: KillerMarv Feb 1st 2007, 1:07 PM
I personally don't care how people post their opinion on an episode. From my point of view, as long as they are expressing their opinion, and not offend anyone while they do that, he can write whatever he likes. I am neutral about his way of posting. I guess I would ask too much out of people, if I would say stop posting everything with paragraphs having titles. 
Although I do have a problem with the way ALIEN_JL posts, pressing that damn Enter too soon, thus making the lines shorter than normal.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Feb 1st 2007, 1:49 PM
I had no idea conformity was a prerequisite for posting here. I'm copycatting the Cynic's Corner. It doesn't take any time at all. I come up with ideas while I watch the episode then click post when the episode ends.
Conformity is definitly not a prerequisite. My post was in response to the brevity in your response to Revan's question. If you are going to spam like that, you might as well just not post. You're free to use any format that you like, as long as it's not offensive.
When comment was just opinion...
Posted by: glom Feb 1st 2007, 3:44 PM
You're free to use any format that you like, as long as it's not offensive.
The two of you sure weren't making it seem that way. After your two initial posts about my posts, you can imagine I would go into defensive mode and be slightly offended at being asked to justify what I thought were fairly innocent posts, that anyone could read or ignore as we all do with posts on any web board.
Posted by: baggers1982 Feb 1st 2007, 9:23 PM
How long was atlantis under siege for? could the ancients have developed the deep sea platform while they were under siege as a last ditch attempt to keep the shields powered, knowing that their access to the supplies needed to recreate zpm's was limited.
Posted by: flash3389 Feb 1st 2007, 9:53 PM
If Atlantis does retrieve the wrath ship i bet they lose it maybe in the next episode when those replicator guys attack. Humans seem to always sacrifice alien ships that they've commandeered.
Posted by: Gotanks Feb 3rd 2007, 10:09 AM
If Atlantis does retrieve the wrath ship i bet they lose it maybe in the next episode when those replicator guys attack. Humans seem to always sacrifice alien ships that they've commandeered.
Posted by: Revan Feb 3rd 2007, 9:34 PM
The two of you sure weren't making it seem that way. After your two initial posts about my posts, you can imagine I would go into defensive mode and be slightly offended at being asked to justify what I thought were fairly innocent posts, that anyone could read or ignore as we all do with posts on any web board.
I distinctly remember sending you a PM about this sort of spam. I am sure I responded to your complaint, but now its just old. Stop spamming.
If Atlantis does retrieve the wrath ship i bet they lose it maybe in the next episode when those replicator guys attack. Humans seem to always sacrifice alien ships that they've commandeered.
Well, they will probably leave it on the sea floor for an undefined amount of time... eventually TPTB may have a use for it... probably getting it destroyed immediately.
Posted by: KillerMarv Feb 4th 2007, 4:53 AM
I distinctly remember sending you a PM about this sort of spam. I am sure I responded to your complaint, but now its just old. Stop spamming.
This is a matter of curiosity. No actual posting against any decision or so... but why actually is he spamming? His posts are still his own ideas about the show, even if they are kind of strange, and contain critics in them. I say that as long as he expresses his opinions, it surely can't be spam, only if he just copies those from somewhere else and posts them here.
Posted by: Gotanks Feb 4th 2007, 8:06 AM
I distinctly remember sending you a PM about this sort of spam. I am sure I responded to your complaint, but now its just old. Stop spamming.
Well, they will probably leave it on the sea floor for an undefined amount of time... eventually TPTB may have a use for it... probably getting it destroyed immediately.
Or they take it apart, study it and reverse engineer a ship with Wraith tech
Posted by: Dafmeister Feb 28th 2007, 4:14 PM
I liked this episode. Ok, it was predictable that the Queen would take control of Teyla but it was enjoyable nonetheless.
There were a couple of points that I didn't understand, such as why taking out the control crystals on an auxillary control panel would render the main control room useless.
Why was the Queen on a Cruiser? Aren't they usually in command on a Hive?
I guess the Wraith are immune to salt water too (unless the new writer didn't watch '38 Minutes').
Posted by: JTMAG1 Feb 28th 2007, 6:02 PM
I guess the Wraith are immune to salt water too (unless the new writer didn't watch '38 Minutes').
I was on about that too. They made a big deal about it and then when the wraith actually come into contact with saltwater... nothing happens.
Posted by: Invisible Painting Feb 28th 2007, 6:10 PM
Hey that's a good point actually daf, I just guess the writer didn't think of that lol. I mean it is something a lot of peolpe would have missed really.
See teyla is a good character when they develop her lol. I actually enjoyed watching her for the first half of the episode, if they did more with her she'd be good. Rather then a wallpaper who's around a lot lol. But they just need to give her real purpose and I believe that this type of development helps with that.
Posted by: Revan Feb 28th 2007, 11:16 PM
I guess the Wraith are immune to salt water too (unless the new writer didn't watch '38 Minutes').
We are not allergic to saltwater. We sweat and cry saltwater. The Iratus bug is allergic to saltwater, that doesn't necessarily mean the Wraith are. They wouldn't have gotten far as a sentient species if they were...
Posted by: Dafmeister Mar 1st 2007, 11:00 AM
Posted by: Auntie Em! Mar 1st 2007, 12:01 PM
I thought that they established that the Wraith feared salt water? In the first season. However, I cannot remember which episode.
Posted by: Invisible Painting Mar 1st 2007, 12:59 PM
I thought that they established that the Wraith feared salt water? In the first season. However, I cannot remember which episode.
Not to my knowledge...unless you mean the iratus bug. Hey you think that's why they put atlantis in the middle of the ocean as the wraith would be affraid to go there
Posted by: Auntie Em! Mar 1st 2007, 1:37 PM
Hey that was it IP. They talked about that in an episode and that what the theory they gave. Geeeze I wish I could remember which episode it was in. 
Posted by: Revan Mar 1st 2007, 2:52 PM
If the Iratus bug is allergic to salt-water then there is a high chance the Wraith would be too. In adult form, the Wraith are more like the Iratus than Humans so the chances they are also allergic to salt water are increased.
Why not? The Wraith don't need water, they gain all their nutrition from feeding.
I guess it depends on how their internal organs work... humans are mostly salt water... so, I dunno...
Not to my knowledge...unless you mean the iratus bug. Hey you think that's why they put atlantis in the middle of the ocean as the wraith would be affraid to go there
Wasn't that the second episode of the series? 38 Minutes...? In the middle of an ocean, the city can't be overgrown by plants, it is easier to land in water, it wouldn't interfere with life on the continents, animals couldn't get in the city... there are less complications, basically, IMO.
I honestly don't remember anybody saying anything about the Wraith being allerigc to salt water. And now we have seen they couldn't be, given the Queen's swim.
Posted by: Invisible Painting Mar 1st 2007, 3:22 PM
I guess it depends on how their internal organs work... humans are mostly salt water... so, I dunno...
Wasn't that the second episode of the series? 38 Minutes...? In the middle of an ocean, the city can't be overgrown by plants, it is easier to land in water, it wouldn't interfere with life on the continents, animals couldn't get in the city... there are less complications, basically, IMO.
I honestly don't remember anybody saying anything about the Wraith being allerigc to salt water. And now we have seen they couldn't be, given the Queen's swim.
Yeah I was joking about that part, obviously the wraith would still go there even if they were allergic lol. And yeah in 38 minutes they say that the irratus bug has a similar reaction to salt water as leech's do to it. But as said there are a lot of differences to the iratus bug and what they ended up becoming with the wraith. Otherwise the team would just be shooting them with water pistols.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Mar 1st 2007, 5:15 PM
Yeah I was joking about that part, obviously the wraith would still go there even if they were allergic lol. And yeah in 38 minutes they say that the irratus bug has a similar reaction to salt water as leech's do to it. But as said there are a lot of differences to the iratus bug and what they ended up becoming with the wraith. Otherwise the team would just be shooting them with water pistols.
That is probbaly why they dropped the idea imediately, and never mentioned it again.
Posted by: JC1 Mar 6th 2007, 5:45 PM
It feel's like a long time since we've seen the Wraith, unfortunately it was only a single Wraith that was stranded at the bottom of the ocean. I'm kind of wondering whats happening with the rest of the Wraith.
Still, it wasn't a bad episode. Teyla had more to do than usual, Ronan got his ass kicked.
I wonder if they'll do anything with Ancient station and the Wraith cruiser in the future.
Posted by: 38_mins moo Mar 7th 2007, 6:08 PM
Finally got round to watching this one. Thought it was quite a good episode. Something else for us to explore then potentially break!
That thing must be helluva deep, i mean atlantis is already pretty far down.
7/10
Posted by: Revan Mar 7th 2007, 7:21 PM
Finally got round to watching this one. Thought it was quite a good episode. Something else for us to explore then potentially break!
That thing must be helluva deep, i mean atlantis is already pretty far down.
7/10
Didn't they say Atlantis was 500 feet deep or 800 feet or something?
Posted by: Reignfire Jun 8th 2007, 10:53 PM
I was on about that too. They made a big deal about it and then when the wraith actually come into contact with saltwater... nothing happens.
That bugged me too. Like everyone else, I figured the whole point of showing the bug's water weakness was a hint towards a Wraith weakness. I always thought this was the reason Atlantis' last location was in the middle of an ocean and the reason why they submerged it.
That is probbaly why they dropped the idea imediately, and never mentioned it again.
I could just see Atlantis getting regular shipments of Super Soakers, LOL.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 8th 2007, 11:18 PM
I can't figure out when the queen wasn't awakened when Atlantis came under siege, and they thought that Atlantis had been destroyed. With no threat, they could have taken all of the time need to rescue her.
Posted by: Sighfienerd Jun 8th 2007, 11:26 PM
The Wraith don't need water, they gain all their nutrition from feeding.
I'm not sure if that logic necessarily follows. As humans, we gain our nutrition from "food," yet we still need water to survive. I think that is probably true for most creatures that are made up of mostly water?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 8th 2007, 11:37 PM
I'm not sure if that logic necessarily follows. As humans, we gain our nutrition from "food," yet we still need water to survive. I think that is probably true for most creatures that are made up of mostly water?
Water doesn't acually provide nutrition. We need it for a lot of our body's systems to function. Like the circulatory system. Plus osmosis doesn't work without water... diffusion wouldn't be as easy.
Posted by: Revan Jun 9th 2007, 12:09 AM
Water doesn't acually provide nutrition. We need it for a lot of our body's systems to function. Like the circulatory system. Plus osmosis doesn't work without water... diffusion wouldn't be as easy.
Water is the human body's lubricant... and it is a means of transportation. Its like a mess of highways.
Why doesn't osmosis work without water?
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 9th 2007, 3:35 AM
Okay, I just have to say it and I know you saw it coming, why wasn't Beckett even mentioned? It's the episode after his death, and we got nothing from anyone.
So the Queen was hybernating off and on for 10,000 years? Have they established how long a Wraith can live? If so, I don't remember. I also thought that they had established that the Wraith do not like salt water.
Once again Graydon and Dickenson were the unknown ensigns of Star Trek fame. You had to see that one coming. Okay, they have established that when the Wraith feed, they feed on and suck the life from one person. If they have another, they feed a little and cocoon them. Graydon died, so what happened to Dickerson? Are we just to assume that he died?
Finally, they used Teyla's Wraith DNA for something. They established that she had it, but that was in season 1, now we get another revisit. Yes, they did something with it in the Michael episodes, but not enough.
I didn't recognize the writer or director on this one. Not too sure that I want to see them again.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 9th 2007, 4:02 AM
Okay, I just have to say it and I know you saw it coming, why wasn't Beckett even mentioned? It's the episode after his death, and we got nothing from anyone.
I know. I remember episodes after Daniel's "death" or Janet's death, and it certainly wasn't like this. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they didn't know the order of episodes from start, so they filmed them too independently.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 9th 2007, 4:44 AM
Posted by: Revan Jun 9th 2007, 7:56 AM
So the Queen was hybernating off and on for 10,000 years? Have they established how long a Wraith can live? If so, I don't remember. I also thought that they had established that the Wraith do not like salt water.
Once again Graydon and Dickenson were the unknown ensigns of Star Trek fame. You had to see that one coming. Okay, they have established that when the Wraith feed, they feed on and suck the life from one person. If they have another, they feed a little and cocoon them. Graydon died, so what happened to Dickerson? Are we just to assume that he died?
The iratus bug did not like salt water... apparently the wraith do not have that weakness...
RED SHIRTS! They can absorb many at once for some sor of... 'super-charge'... I spose...
Posted by: Invisible Painting Jun 9th 2007, 10:04 AM
I didn't recognize the writer or director on this one. Not too sure that I want to see them again.
The writer of this episode wrote Common ground. That was a fantastic episode, he also wrote the arc though which was a little....less then fantastic
It depends his record is a bit mixed. He's been a story editor for the whole of season 3 though according to imdb.The iratus bug did not like salt water... apparently the wraith do not have that weakness...
I am wondering if they meant that or if they just forgot about the salt water in the sea should affect them. Either way it's done now but I'm wondering if they had thought of it what would happen.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 9th 2007, 10:58 AM
Water is the human body's lubricant... and it is a means of transportation. Its like a mess of highways.
Why doesn't osmosis work without water?
"Osmosis is the net movement of water across a partially permeable membrane from a region of high solvent potential to an area of low solvent potential, up a solute concentration gradient."
No water, without Osmosis, the body wouldn't be able to change the concentration of certain substances inside cells. Plus, water is used to evacuate uslessless/dangerous soluable items. It's also used for temerpature control as well.
The Wraith in 'Condemned' said they had evolved past the point where eating as Humans do provided them any form of sustinence. If they don't require food to live, I can't see why they would require water.
If the Wraith have skeletons (which we know they do) then they probably have muscles. it might be important to have during the chemical reactions that create muscle contractions.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 9th 2007, 11:10 AM
If the Wraith have skeletons (which we know they do) then they probably have muscles. it might be important to have during the chemical reactions that create muscle contractions.
They could be extracting water out of the bodies they feed upon. In fact, the "victims" look so dried up, it makes sense to me that the Wraith actually do that.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 9th 2007, 12:08 PM
They could be extracting water out of the bodies they feed upon. In fact, the "victims" look so dried up, it makes sense to me that the Wraith actually do that.
Yeah, The bodies are always pretty dried up. That makes perfect sense to me.
Posted by: Sighfienerd Jun 9th 2007, 1:59 PM
They could be extracting water out of the bodies they feed upon. In fact, the "victims" look so dried up, it makes sense to me that the Wraith actually do that.
Masterful!
Posted by: Sylver Jun 9th 2007, 2:26 PM
This was an OK episode. I didn't quite get why Weir was there, unless it was to show us she can be something other than stuck in the gate room/her office. Or maybe it was the Teyla aspect? Someone other than John had to say no to her? Either way, it wasn't working for me. I had expected this to be a Teyla-centric episode, but once again, she and the plot were shoved to the background.
Question about McKay - is he regressing character-wise, or are the writer's ignoring the progress he's made this season?
The best part - and you can tell the episode is a bad one when this is the best line - McKay grumbling over how he hired the wrong guy. That really is classic McKay.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 9th 2007, 3:07 PM
I know. I remember episodes after Daniel's "death" or Janet's death, and it certainly wasn't like this. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that they didn't know the order of episodes from start, so they filmed them too independently.
Whether it was filmed and shown out of order or not, it just didn't set well with me.
The writer of this episode wrote Common ground. That was a fantastic episode, he also wrote the arc though which was a little....less then fantastic
It depends his record is a bit mixed. He's been a story editor for the whole of season 3 though according to imdb.I am wondering if they meant that or if they just forgot about the salt water in the sea should affect them. Either way it's done now but I'm wondering if they had thought of it what would happen.
Okay, I did enjoy Common Ground, but this one was awful.
I think they actually forgot about the salt water thing. Remember that bug was from season 1. This is the end of season 3. They have different writers. I don't believe they have them become familiar with what went before, or we wouldn't be having so many things to nitpick about.
Posted by: Invisible Painting Jun 9th 2007, 8:07 PM
I think they actually forgot about the salt water thing. Remember that bug was from season 1. This is the end of season 3. They have different writers. I don't believe they have them become familiar with what went before, or we wouldn't be having so many things to nitpick about.
Alan McCulloch though, in most of his scripts he references earlier seasons or things that happened years before, aspects or characters that haven't been mentioned in a couple of years return, he is one writer who seems to really know his stuff and isn't affraid to go into SG1 backstory. But I think that was more his interest, he seems to have a natural interest that shows through in his scripts. I don't think they try and get all the writers up to speed though, if they can write an episode, they stick it at that.
Posted by: ancient01 Jun 11th 2007, 4:55 PM
I'm disappointed they didn't make the salt water an issue for the wraith. That just seems like a huge missed opportunity. Setting that aside, though, I enjoyed the episode. It was nice to see the characters working together to resolve the problem.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 11th 2007, 5:28 PM
I'm disappointed they didn't make the salt water an issue for the wraith. That just seems like a huge missed opportunity. Setting that aside, though, I enjoyed the episode. It was nice to see the characters working together to resolve the problem.
It wouldn't make them too much an enemy anymore with such a weakness. That was a missed opportunity to ruin the show, given that this salt water thing was taken into account in the fourth episode. We can't have such a 'scary' enemy be defeated so easily.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 11th 2007, 5:49 PM
If the salt-water weakness hadn't been left out (we don't know if it was intentionally ignored or not) the Wraith Queen could not have swam across from her Cruiser to the driling station, pretty much killing the point of the episode. An obvious plothole but a necessary one.
Posted by: Shylodog Jun 11th 2007, 5:54 PM
Here's what I'm thinking...
When they used saltwater to remove the bug, we saw the bug react to it. What we didn't see is what the result of that reaction was. We don't know if it hurt the bug, or was just suffocating it. We do know it didn't like it and let Sheppard go.
After it let Sheppard go, Ford emptied a few rounds into it, which we assumed killed it. When Ford pulled it off, we are not afforded any imagery that would substantiate any kind of "Alien Nation" reaction to saltwater.
So to me, this provides no inconsistancy of the story.
We don't know if the Queen was having any kind of reaction to the saltwater she was swimming in. We don't know if it was causing her any kind of pain. We do know that she's over 10,000 years old at least and is a war-hardened Wraith. We also know that she swam without protective gear in an environment that would have turned any human body into pink mushy snack for the local wildlife. As an intelligent and ageless being, how hard would it be for her to hide any kind of discomfort that she may have experienced, whereas her less intelligent progenitor would act more instinctively?
Oh, and it was asked earlier, Carson Beckett stated in the pilot episode (and I'm paraphrasing here) that given the properties of the tissue sample he analyzed, the Wraith do not age as we do, and could conceivably never die due to natural causes.
Just my 2 cents.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 11th 2007, 7:45 PM
Yeah, he did say that they probably wouldn't ever die of natural causes, but they do starve to death.
Posted by: Shylodog Jun 11th 2007, 9:46 PM
Yeah, he did say that they probably wouldn't ever die of natural causes, but they do starve to death.
True, but I think since they hibernate, starvation would be a loooooooooooooooooooooooong time comin'. In "The Defiant One" we saw that a wraith soldier can live quite some time without food right handy. Granted, we were never really told how long, but I had the feeling it was easily a few hundred years. Unless he lived off the wisp's energies. Heh.
Posted by: IndyJan Jun 12th 2007, 12:39 AM
Alan McCulloch though, in most of his scripts he references earlier seasons or things that happened years before, aspects or characters that haven't been mentioned in a couple of years return, he is one writer who seems to really know his stuff and isn't affraid to go into SG1 backstory. But I think that was more his interest, he seems to have a natural interest that shows through in his scripts. I don't think they try and get all the writers up to speed though, if they can write an episode, they stick it at that.
I do like Alan McCulloch. He has been one of the better writers the past few years. I have noticed that he will refer back, which is a good thing. I like it when they remember the SG history. I don't care for it when they forget what they themselves have set in motion.
Yeah, he did say that they probably wouldn't ever die of natural causes, but they do starve to death.
Yeah, they don't die of natural causes, whatever that may be for them, LOL! As we have said she was over 10,000 years old. We know as a Queen she is very strong. She and her crew went into hybernation. We can only assume that she awoke each time before any crew members since they said that she fed on her crew. You have to wonder when was the last time that she fed.
People were talking about fluid. To the best of my knowledge I don't remember any Wraith actually drinking. For that reason, I'm assuming that they get their fluid from sucking the life out of their food. When they eat, they take the fluids out of the humans, which is quite substantial.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jun 12th 2007, 3:18 AM
Here's what I'm thinking...
When they used saltwater to remove the bug, we saw the bug react to it. What we didn't see is what the result of that reaction was. We don't know if it hurt the bug, or was just suffocating it. We do know it didn't like it and let Sheppard go.
After it let Sheppard go, Ford emptied a few rounds into it, which we assumed killed it. When Ford pulled it off, we are not afforded any imagery that would substantiate any kind of "Alien Nation" reaction to saltwater.
So to me, this provides no inconsistancy of the story.
We don't know if the Queen was having any kind of reaction to the saltwater she was swimming in. We don't know if it was causing her any kind of pain. We do know that she's over 10,000 years old at least and is a war-hardened Wraith. We also know that she swam without protective gear in an environment that would have turned any human body into pink mushy snack for the local wildlife. As an intelligent and ageless being, how hard would it be for her to hide any kind of discomfort that she may have experienced, whereas her less intelligent progenitor would act more instinctively?
Oh, and it was asked earlier, Carson Beckett stated in the pilot episode (and I'm paraphrasing here) that given the properties of the tissue sample he analyzed, the Wraith do not age as we do, and could conceivably never die due to natural causes.
Just my 2 cents.
That is quite a good point. But people remember it badly. The creature didn't let go of Sheppard after they put salt first and then water on it. It reacted to it, and got in deeper in his neck.
They didn't even know what the creature reacted to because of that, salt, water, or the combination of them both.
And does anyone remember how they got rid of the creature? Ah yes, they fooled the creature that Major Sheppard was dead, by stopping his heart.
So, in any case, the creature got more aggressive when treated with salt and water.
Posted by: ancient01 Jun 12th 2007, 5:38 AM
So, in any case, the creature got more aggressive when treated with salt and water.
That's really my point. Salt water doesn't necessarily need to be an "Achilles Heel." It could do something else entirely to them. This story pretty much put the kibosh on any really viable storylines having to do with salt water.
Posted by: Shylodog Jun 12th 2007, 10:29 AM
And does anyone remember how they got rid of the creature? Ah yes, they fooled the creature that Major Sheppard was dead, by stopping his heart.
GAH! How in the world did I forget that?!?!?
Good catch, Marv!
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 12th 2007, 10:37 AM
That is quite a good point. But people remember it badly. The creature didn't let go of Sheppard after they put salt first and then water on it. It reacted to it, and got in deeper in his neck.
They didn't even know what the creature reacted to because of that, salt, water, or the combination of them both.
And does anyone remember how they got rid of the creature? Ah yes, they fooled the creature that Major Sheppard was dead, by stopping his heart.
So, in any case, the creature got more aggressive when treated with salt and water.
Well, I associated the creature's response with pain or discomfort. The Creature also dug in deeper with other attempts to hurt it.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jun 12th 2007, 11:34 AM
Posted by: Shylodog Jun 12th 2007, 2:19 PM
I don't see your point there Marv. The Iratus bug feeds of a person's life energy so by stopping Sheppard's heart, effectively killing him, the bug would have let go as there would have been nothing else for the bug to feed on.
He was correcting the facts of my statement, being oh so subtle about it.
I omitted the fact that it took "killing" Sheppard for the bug to let go, thereby attributing the bugs release to the salt water. I had totally forgotten that they stopped his heart.
Posted by: cosmos Jun 12th 2007, 6:35 PM
Though some people referred to the Wraith as being silly villains, I find them interesting. I wish there was more of the Wraith in this season. They are a mystery to us and I look forward of the time where they will open up and we will see how their society works and how formidable they can be when they are actually going into war and not trying to deal with what they perceive as a minor nuisance. There is just so much potential...
This episode was not that bad but has room for improvement. For once a queen that strong and being trapped there for so long should have been more angry and difficult to capture than we saw.
Other than that I found very amusing the idea that McKay has hired Greyden (or whatever) instead of Greysen who was regarded by all a brilliant scientist because he confused their names, while Greyden had been there for 8 months and McKay didn't even know he existed in his team.
Posted by: Revan Jun 12th 2007, 9:29 PM
"Osmosis is the net movement of water across a partially permeable membrane from a region of high solvent potential to an area of low solvent potential, up a solute concentration gradient."
No water, without Osmosis, the body wouldn't be able to change the concentration of certain substances inside cells. Plus, water is used to evacuate uslessless/dangerous soluable items. It's also used for temerpature control as well.
If the Wraith have skeletons (which we know they do) then they probably have muscles. it might be important to have during the chemical reactions that create muscle contractions.
Osmosis is just diffusion through a membrane. Almost everything in the body is in aqueous solution, so it has a certain concentration... but I don't think we can say that osmosis is impossible without water. Obviously in humans it is, because we would be dead, rendering the discussion moot.
Well, I associated the creature's response with pain or discomfort. The Creature also dug in deeper with other attempts to hurt it.
It was in pain so it started draining more energy to compensate?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Jun 12th 2007, 11:00 PM
Osmosis is just diffusion through a membrane. Almost everything in the body is in aqueous solution, so it has a certain concentration... but I don't think we can say that osmosis is impossible without water. Obviously in humans it is, because we would be dead, rendering the discussion moot.
NO. Osmosis is a type of diffusion. And it is specifically a diffusion of water accross the membrane. It there was no water, then it would just be call diffusion. Diffusion can occur inside or outside of a membrame to balance the concentration gradient of any matter, but Osmosis is always the diffusion of 1 O and 2 Hs grouped together accross the membrane.
It was in pain so it started draining more energy to compensate?
Yes, that's what I thought. They showed earlier that the big did exactly the same thing when they tried to shoot it off. I assume that the gunshot hurt and so the salt water hurt.
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