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Posted by: Arcady Jul 16th 2006, 7:46 PM

Episode 2 - Misbegotten Air Date: July 21, 2006 The Atlantis team must decide the fate of a colony of Wraith they have turned into humans. Dr. Weir must defend her leadership when she is evaluated by the I.O.A. More info:  Episode Guide  Spoilers  Teaser  Screencaps

Posted by: Sighfienerd Jul 21st 2006, 10:59 PM

I only have one thing to say about this episode. Damn that Wraith makeup! Connor Trinneer is a hottie and I want to see more of him without the makeup and preferably without a shirt.

No, seriously - he needs to be made a regular or at least a fairly regularly recurring regular. Try saying that three times in a row, and take note Dr. Beckett - it's recur, not re-occurring. Anyway, I didn't get to see the last half because of a bleedin' phone call, but the plot definitely looks twisty turny enough for some follow-on episodes. Don't forget TPTB - more human Michael time. Shirt optional.

And do something with Shep. Losing. interest. fast.

Edit: Whoops! Sorry, posted that in the wrong thread, but my super powers enabled me to move it to the correct place and delete the old one. It's good to be

Posted by: Gate Jumper Jul 21st 2006, 11:43 PM

Good episode I guess, it was better than SG-1's ep for tonight. Why did they even try to control two hundred human formed Wraith, they barely controlled Michael, Live and Learn I guess too bad the Atlantis team doesnt know anything about it.

Posted by: Revan Jul 22nd 2006, 1:41 AM

Beckett!!! Ironically, they are the two people I nearly killed....

Weir is still a firecracker... Ya know, I am beginning to really like Mr. Woolsey.

Not such a bad episode, although I am curious to know the fate of Michael, once again our enemy...

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jul 22nd 2006, 8:52 AM

Ok... So First we got Ancient war ship which could have given us little advantage over the Wraiths
but we sent it to fight the Wraiths even though it was far from battle ready... So we just wasted all
the drones it had and everything we could have learned from it...

And then we got Wraith hive ship which we could have studied and we could have figured out the
beam jamming system and become able to nuke the Wraith hives at will... But no no no. Again we
sent this barely operational ship to meet the Wraiths and of course we lost everything AGAIN...

I wonder what happens next... Are we going to get our own ORI ship and blow it up too ??

Posted by: Christy Jul 22nd 2006, 10:07 AM

I thought this was a good episode. Not totally a loss. But i didnt agree with putting the wraith on that planet...it used up personnel which could have been making repairs and things.
Im gonna miss Michael...oh though i still cant figure out why the Wraith move their heads so much.

Posted by: Subfer Jul 22nd 2006, 10:08 AM

Dam im angry on those writers, why do they have to destroy all the cool ship they get, but otherwise it was a good episode. They should have told us more how Weir got back on Atlantis and i dont understand how in the past Zpm was deplited when they dialed another galaxie but now they are dialing Earth all the time.
And how could a nuke be so easly disarmed by a wraith that probably never before have seen one, i would think that that is a little more complicated.
I hoped that Woolsey will stay a little longer on Atlantis like a year or at least 6 months!!

Posted by: Natoma Jul 22nd 2006, 12:09 PM

They did explain how Weir and Woolsey got to Atlantis. The Asgard shuttled them, shaving 2 weeks off their trip. Didn't you pay attention?

As for the ships, they had no choice. With the ancient ship, they HAD to catch up to the wraith before they were unreachable. And yes, they knew they were almost assuredly committing suicide. With the wraith ship, they KNEW they weren't able to take on another wraith hive, but they were hoping to get there before the other hive did so they could get their people and destroy all the humanized-wraith. Of course, it didn't work out that way.

But in both situations, they made the right decision.

Posted by: JinxY Jul 22nd 2006, 12:19 PM

Nice to see Michael again really cute guy .. the long haired dudes seem a little less interesting wihtout the wraith make-up .... they look better when their bad Nice interraction between Shep and Weir
However i'm not very found of the ideea of turning wraith into humans then easily abandon them as war casualties .... true they would've been a usless burden but still ... they made them human, they have a responsability... and no one seems to care about that except for dr. Beckett ... i mean they saw what happened to Michael, those kind of hybrids could never fit in either worlds... I'm really looking forward to see how this will turn up and if Michael got off that planet somehow.

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jul 22nd 2006, 12:46 PM

In the Orion case I can agree that they didn't have much choise (They had to stop the
Wraiths from reaching earth at any cost...) But in this Hive ship case I say they wasted
that hive for nothing...

---

And that drug doesn't even work... Those "Wraith humans" may look little like humans
but the Wraith is still in there (Its only suppressed) Even if they would make that drugs
effect seemingly permanent the Wraith will still be there... And they can never be sure
if the change is truly permanent so they can never trust them...

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 22nd 2006, 2:40 PM

A nice conclusion to the Season starter. I thought Michael would have been treated better than he was, but actually it was better this way. I have a feeling that the Wraith colony on that planet escaped and will pose a great threat in the future.

In other news... Expected, expected. Wraith Hive-ship went k-boom. Unexpected, unexpected, Teyla being the only one that can pilot the ship. They can make good use of this so called Wraith gene in the future, if they really know how.

Posted by: Ancient Kane Jul 22nd 2006, 3:27 PM

Ok episode i liked the whole wriath killing bit with the sneaking part. Really starting to not like Carson, what a "moron". Then again i would of killed them from the beginning. That bit with Ronon and Micheal where Micheal goes are you going to be my excutioner and Ronons like "I WISH". That was good. The only thing i really really didnt and dont like about stargate atm is Richard bloody Woolsey. It is me but i just hate that guy SO MUCH. why is he in like every episode. Parts with him in just bring both shows down. Have him killed off PLEASEE!!!!

Posted by: Athgar Jul 22nd 2006, 4:17 PM

I can't help having a lot of sympathy for Michael after the last few episodes, poor bloke has been kidnapped, experimented on and mutated, ostracised, betrayed twice, experimented on again and then suffered an attempted nuking

And nobody seems concerned about this apart from Beckett. Has it really not occurred to anyone than genetically altering a sentient race against their will is perhaps not acceptable practice? Not defending the Wraith but that doesn't mean they should have carte blanche to do whatever they like to them

I hope we don't see any more ships destroyed for a while, it starts getting repetitive no matter how well explained

Don't the Asgard have better things to do than shuttle humans around?
Was there any mention of how the Daedalus was retreived?

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 22nd 2006, 5:08 PM

can anyone please tell me whats going on with the timeline between the 2 shows.. iam totally confused.. did the events in 302 occur after or befroe 1002 ?

also don;t you guys think that atlantis is taking a darker turn than sg1? i mean they basically started to play god and didn;t care about killing over 100 civilians whom they created

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 22nd 2006, 5:43 PM

It could be anyone of them... It could be before 1002, it could be after it... Point is that 1003 will surely happen after 302. That is the only thing we know for sure. The fact that the shows are not connected so much except for the beginning and end of seasons makes their timelines distinct. Normally we would assume that 1003 happens before 303, 1004 before 304, 1005 before 305, but there is no way to know for certain.

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 22nd 2006, 7:08 PM

Okay, Morpheus on SG1 and Misbegotten on Atlantis were both written by M & M, and the Atlantis episode wins hands down. At least this episode made sense, and it wasn't starring Mckay. I love Beckett and his humanity.

I knew not to trust Michael right off the bat, but I didn't care. It was still a good story. I have a hunch that Michael will somehow survive. He's a great character.

We already know that he cannot go to the Wraith, and he cannot be with the humans. I know that they used their connection/telepathy to reach the other hive ship, but did you notice at the end, when Michael said that they would wait for the other Wraith to come and rescue them? They all looked at Michael and walked away. So I'm still thinking he cannot go with the Wraith. Even though the same thing happened to them, they are still going to ostracize Michael.

I loved Shep's call to nuke the planet, to fire on the planet. They couldn't let them survive.

My only question, where did the puddle jumper come from? I missed that. I thought they had used the hive ship to bring the 200 and to leave the team and Beckett. Then Shep with Teyla's help used the hive ship to return to rescue them. So where was the puddle jumper?

Finally they used Teyla's Wraith DNA for something. It only took 2 years and some months.

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 22nd 2006, 7:17 PM

They used the PJ they had inside the ship. When it was in Atlantis' orbit, they transported a PJ aboard the hive ship, and they used it to rescue Beckett, transport the nuke, and save themselves.

My question to this: I thought the dart bay was destroyed in No Man's Land... and even caused secondary explosions. Did they manage to repair it that fast to bring a PJ?

Posted by: Romestar Jul 22nd 2006, 8:13 PM

I wish the episode had more action, like a big ground fight on the planet with the wraith or something.

Posted by: Kate Jul 22nd 2006, 8:34 PM

Pretty good ep, though I like the last one better. I don't suppose that is the last we will see of Michael. Can't wait for both SG1 and Atlantis's next episodes they both look good.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 22nd 2006, 8:51 PM

YAWN. If SGA ended tomorrow I would not miss it. What a boring, boring episode. So predicable. Woosley won hands down. He is a great guy. Oh how I love bald men.

They said in 1002 they want to go to SGA so maybe this will take place next week and we shall see what the timeline is for the two shows. 8 days passed between 1001 and 1002 and Woosley was there for both episodes so...who knows.

Posted by: Clan Furling Jul 22nd 2006, 10:35 PM

Everybody's talking about being a sad ep because of all those ships that were lost. I'm just sad that they renewed Weir's job on Atlantis. When are they gonna FIRE her. She is so anoying that they wouldn't even show her traveling back to Atlantis on an Asgard ship, she is so anoying that even Woolsley wanted to leave her on Atlantis making sure that she doesnt "move her annoyance" back at the SGC. I think Teyla did a superb job on commanding while the "crazy lady" (aka weir) was away.

Posted by: J&S4Ever Jul 22nd 2006, 11:57 PM

My thoughts exactly. That was my problem with this episode. They are just turning these Wraith into humans and it's like "Screw them! Not our problem. Kill them when we need to." From a strictly moral point of view it's very bothersome to me.

And Michael, like he helped damn it. They could have given him a chance. The other Wraith did not want him, but noooooo...We had to go and make him human again. I know it's for plot purposes, but it's just WRONG!

We know Michael is going to be back with a vengance..pun intended. I have a feeling that those converted Wraith are going to start posing a bigger problem than the non-convereted Wraith. Maybe they'll come up with a formula to convert humans to Wraith. Now wouldn't that be ironic!

BTW the actor who plays Michael...Did he have a part in Star Trek Enterprise?

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 23rd 2006, 12:36 AM

Yes, it's Conner Tinner, and he was the second in command, and the one lead character that was killed. His character was a friend of the captain's. He also had a relationship with T'Pol.

Posted by: J&S4Ever Jul 23rd 2006, 12:40 AM

Cool. I just saw a commerical for an upcoming episode of Enterprise and I thought I had seen him. Thanks!

Posted by: Lagger Jul 23rd 2006, 1:28 AM

i think it was a crap episode....

a bad ending for the first one

Posted by: Cha'Lok Jul 23rd 2006, 4:55 AM

What did Michael do to Beckett? He had him captured and strapped to a chair and when he talked to him there was something like an echo, I think he talked to beckett's mind or something. A while later he said to the other wraith that 'He (beckett) has served his purpose'. Maybe they brainwashed beckett somehow?

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 23rd 2006, 5:29 AM

My guess is that he probe his mind on a psychic level. Like Teyla did to gain access to a Wraith mind on one of the ships that was headed to Atlantis on S1 finale.

Posted by: Jade Jul 23rd 2006, 7:15 AM

I was pretty bore for the first half of the episode, actually the first half hour, until the realisation that the wraith starting to rebel, and sheppard and the team arrived on the planet.

Woosley has been everywhere, does he have an identical twin, because he is been evaluating everyone, across galaxy, impressive.

Now turned Wraith into human, then destroying them, eventhough they don't have a choice considering the alternative, I still think killing the wraith in human form is quite shocking, I understand how Beckett feel

Posted by: Osy Jul 23rd 2006, 9:29 AM

I enjoyed this episode. I enjoy all the episodes. But then, I am easily entertained. I will admit this was not one of the better episodes, but it kept my interest nontheless.

My only complaint...what the hell happened to the make-up or wardrobe department for this episode? (Who ever was in charge of the wigs!) Don't get me wrong, I LOVE this show, but in this episode, a bunch of the wigs were SO bad and SO fake looking that it was laughable. It made the show look like it was done by amatuers. I was really disappointed. Did they just run down the street to the local Spencers and grab a dozen white halloween wigs? Because that's what it looked like. They were so blatent, it was almost distracting. I know they have a limited budget, but come on. I really expected better.

Anyway, I also felt bad for Michael. (Which I think was the point. The writers wanted him to be a sympathetic character.) What the SGA team did was inexcusable. It really made them no better than the Wraith.

Posted by: Ancient Kane Jul 23rd 2006, 9:31 AM

Really. I spent the whole episode waiting for them to finally realize that killing them was the right thing to do. They are infact wraith and even as humans they were too nosy for their own gd. Shame they were all too humain to blow them up before they had to sacrifice their hive ship.

Posted by: dr lee Jul 23rd 2006, 10:07 AM

How 'dark' are they going to make Atlantis? all the moral implications of effectively killing humans, yes de-wraith-ified humans but they are still humans none the less, are very interesting.

Beckett is getting better and better for me, his as the only moral voice in the whole show for me this season.

Hopefully that will be the last time we will have a Atlantis episode based on mostly earth for a while at least, hopefully not again this season. I'm not going to comment of if i want Wier gone or not as either way i'll have people having a go at me whatever i say.

Woosley is a strange character to work out. one minute he is for us then he is against us, i'll wait a bit longer to make my mind up on him

Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jul 23rd 2006, 11:08 AM

How are they humans ?? They look like humans on the outside sure and maybe inside too but they
are clearly still Wraiths. (Their memories and true appearance isn't really gone... Its just that drug
that keep them suppressed...)

Posted by: ted_simple Jul 23rd 2006, 11:21 AM

Wow, how could anyone not like this episode?? I enjoyed every bit of it!!

They finished the ubercrappy dewraithify story. That's a reason alone to celebrate. And most importantly, this episode was 100% necessary to shed more light on the moral implications of the usage of the drug.

And no, the Atlantis team didn't finish the story by just killing all the prisoners. I would have been deeply disappointed in the writers if that had been the case. No, they tried to fulfill the promise/good intention (call it what you will) that has been formulated in the episode Michael, to use this drug as a 'cure' instead of merely killing their enemies. Of course the idea was hypocritical to begin with; I hated the whole story arc; and I liked this episode because it made clear who the moral winner is. Michael. He sticked to his nature

• which is 'killing the weak'
• but also 'being truthful' and 'not betraying your allies, unless they betrayed you'

In fact, there was more moral substance to this episode than we've seen for quite some time... the only sad thing is that my respect for the Atlantis team has fallen to an all-time low. Can anyone tell me why they didn't develop a nerve toxin to simply kill the wraith?

Think about it, it's a total contradiction: On the one hand, it is recently stressed that 'tough decisions' can't be avoided in defense of earth. Dr Weir said 'at least I made a decision'. Fine. On the other hand, they feel bad about simply blowing up the Wraith ships, so they develop a drug to turn them into humans? Does that make any sense? And wouldn't it have been a hundred times easier to distribute a nerve toxin through the ventilation rather than the drug?

God I just hated it all, and I'm happy the team finally realized that transforming a society through this drug is not a working idea. Hypocritical morons.

Enough the rant.....

Posted by: Revan Jul 23rd 2006, 2:19 PM

Michael did it to Teyla to escape Atlantis. He forced her to undo his bonds.

Posted by: Reignfire Jul 23rd 2006, 6:19 PM

I don't think anyone has mentioned this yet, but why is Michael the only humanized Wraith that gets hair color?

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 23rd 2006, 7:13 PM

The dewraith people with the wigs Reignfire were the ugly worker wraith. The ones with the shell on their face. There were others with short hair there. Also, it is writers liscense so that we know who is who in the episode.

Posted by: Osy Jul 23rd 2006, 7:27 PM

For some reason, I thought the dewraithified warriors (the masked ones...or the shell on their face as you put it) ended up bald. Did anyone else notice that? the Wraith warriors are the big bulky guys and the big bulky guys that were dewraithified on the planet were all bald. Or all the ones I saw were. *shrugs*

But Reignfire, I did notice that with Michael. And I wondered that too. I also wondered why his skin tone was more peachy than green when he reverted back to being a wraith.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 23rd 2006, 7:31 PM

Could be. I wonder if the big burly man that had a pouty face and was bald was one of the shell faced warriors. They were about the same size. I wonder if the actor that played him also played the warrior in other episodes. His biceps and deltoids did not seem as defined those.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 23rd 2006, 7:59 PM

as far as i know.. as long as you keep on taking the drug and have a weak mind, you are basically a pure human..
what is the troubling aspect is that they basicallty killed the wraith personality when they administer the drug..thus creating a brand new human with some defects... and thus they should be treated as such..

i would have been better if they just create a neurotoxin in stead of this dumb cure

Posted by: dr lee Jul 23rd 2006, 8:15 PM

I put the difference of Micheal down to the fact that he has had two treatments of the drug and that they have affeted him much more than the other Wraith who have had only one dose.

i don't know if i was the only one to think this but during the scene in the de-wraith-ified wraith tent one of the big burly guys at the back looked to me to be PDL. Did anyone else see this?

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 23rd 2006, 8:30 PM

They should have just put them all into the airlock and opened the outer door! Simple as that. Although, we would not have had this yawner of an episode if they had.

Posted by: tauri129 Jul 23rd 2006, 9:07 PM

i'm finding the darker side of atlantis, dealing more with moral issues, to be very interesting. this is a problem we never had to deal with with the goa'uld. then the human hosts always wanted to be freed from the goa'uld inside them; but these transformed "people" are still wraith. the things the atlantis team have been doing lately, like changing michael even after he had helped us, nuking (or at least attempting to) a couple hundred innocent beings, and treating another species' very existence, as michael put it, like a disease....you have to wonder what right they have to do this. at the very least, some interesting moral questions are raised. i probably wasnt the only one who felt vaguely uncomfortable during michael's speech in Michael when he was forcing them to think about the way they were considering the wraith part of him a disease to be cured.

Posted by: Mattthegreat995 Jul 24th 2006, 2:03 AM

I had nothing wrong with the ep- I enjoyed it more than SG-1.
The storyline had a nice finish to it, but kinda predictable at the end with the PJ carrying the group.
Woolsey was great, he makes a good character.
Beckett was awesome, they made up for his disappearance from the last ep very well.

Posted by: Osy Jul 24th 2006, 6:30 AM

Yeah, I thought so too. What first caught my attention was his really bad wig. Then I thought to myself, that kinda looks like Peter DeLuise under that really bad wig. But after careful inspection, I concluded it wasn't him. The guy did look similar to him though.

Posted by: ancient01 Jul 24th 2006, 6:58 AM

I was kinda bored by this episode. Michael was the only character that kept any interest for me. I'm looking forward to seeing where they go this season, though.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 24th 2006, 8:04 AM

Actually PDL has lost about 100lbs over the last year. I can show you guys a picture of him if you would like. I will try and go find it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1vmf6rOmRnI&search;=Ben%20Browder%20Stargate

There. You can see that it is impossible that that was PDL.

Posted by: Ancient Kane Jul 24th 2006, 8:10 AM

I agree this episode was much better than the SG1s this week however i didnt find it predictable at all. Apart from the Humans going bad that was ovious.

I dont like woolsey i think hes got an annoying haircut .

Posted by: dr lee Jul 24th 2006, 10:29 AM

Wow is that the same man Em?

Kinda makes it a bit more difficult to find him when he does appear eh?

Posted by: joebags Jul 24th 2006, 2:54 PM

It was an okay episode, but I kept wanting Michael and his buds to get away. Bad writing when you pull for the bad guys in a TV show.

Posted by: Sighfienerd Jul 24th 2006, 7:08 PM

I think it actually adds to the interest and dimension of the show when the premise is not completely black and white. We saw the moral dilemma concerning the fate of the Wraith being played out between Shep and Beckett. TPTB wrote one of the show's main "sympathetic" characters (Shep) as almost a Wraith in his amoral attitude toward another species.

We've been allowed to sympathize with Michael who could have completely been portrayed as a nasty, life-force sucking alien that deserved death, instead of a creature with thoughts and desires and fears just like the rest of us.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 24th 2006, 7:16 PM

Yeah in that video Dr Lee that is PDL. He loos to be only a 140-150 pounds now. He is so skinny that if he was in an episode it would be most difficult to spot him now.

Posted by: Athgar Jul 24th 2006, 8:30 PM

Complete agreement here. I can't believe nobody some point along the development for the 'humanising' drug didn't ask if it would be better just to kill instead, that nobody had a problem with attempting to remake a race the way they want them to be.

Going back to 'Allies', when Michael talks about being unable to resist the instinct to feed, has it been said definitively that the wraith have to feed to survive? (memory too sketchty to be sure but that was my impression). It is an interesting consideration, if the Wraith are only doing what they need to do to survive is it any worse than what the atlantis team are doing?

Michael definitely comes out of that episode with the most integrity, Beckett might have whined a bit but he didn't object to turning Michael again. I just hope the (when/if) next time he appears he isn't in archetypal evil wraith mode, the moral ambiguity has potential if the play it right

Posted by: Sighfienerd Jul 24th 2006, 8:44 PM

Athgar, moral ambiguity is the perfect phrase. It would be too easy and too predictable to make Michael one-dimensionally evil and to make Shep out as some kind of knight in shining armour. In the real world, things just really hardly ever happen that way. There are always shades of grey and I think this storyline portrays that nicely.

Posted by: Osy Jul 25th 2006, 8:25 AM

If it were simply a case of the Wraith feeding on people only as a form of survival and nothing more, they wouldn't be concidered an "evil" enemy. It would be understood that this is what they need to do to survive, it's not their fault. It's nature's way, so to speak. And humans just need to stay out of their way if they want to stay alive. What makes the Wraith evil, is that they show no mercy and they even go so far as to mess with the minds of their prey. They'll toy with them, intimidate, lie, manipulate, etc and for no reason other than taking pleasure in it and to get their way. If they just captured, fed and left, they would be thought of as a typical predator. No different than what lions do. And they wouldn't be hated like they are.

But regardless of the Wraith's evilness........Michael put it best when he said it wasn't a disease that they can cure. The Wraith are who they are and the Atlantis team has no right to play God and try to change it, especially to suit their own needs. It only makes them just as evil as the Wraith...especially when they don't seem to be overly concerned about what happens to the dewraithified humans.

I think the point is, humans have the potential to be and often are just as evil. We just refuse to see ourselves in that way.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 25th 2006, 3:00 PM

osy : i refer to the treatments of cattles and chickens on earth..

the wraith are not evil.. they are merely the top predators in that galaxy..

besides it was mentioned in the first episode that they want prey with spirit to make it taste much better
they don;'t want sheeps

Posted by: youngjediboy Jul 25th 2006, 3:01 PM

I like the moral ambiguity, I think that's what sets Atlantis as a series apart from SG-1.


BUT as far as this episode goes, my favorite part has still got to be McKay's remark about falling for the this trap just as he gets spyware when downloading porn! You'd think he would have learned...

Posted by: KillerMarv Jul 25th 2006, 3:23 PM

Well, McKay's remark was in No Man's Land, not in this episode. But I agree with what you have said though.

Posted by: startreksuite Jul 25th 2006, 6:28 PM

Great episode! I love the whole, should we save these wraith, destroy them because they are our enemy mantra! I didn't expect Micheal to go from hero for the humans to villian who seeks to destroy us! But it shows what occurs when you allow too much paranoia to fester. Even if the wraith didn't know what had happend previous to their exposure to the retrovirus, they would eventually suspect something and try to overpower the Atlantis team. As Weir said, (paraphrasing) I did the best I could! I didn't have a lot of options. This could just be what I think what I heard, and need more sleep! I'm not surprised the wraith ship was destroyed, since the last ship to give us an edge was destroyed! Well, if a ship is too hard to figure out, it must not be worth keeping anyway! Even McKay's past DOS experience didn't help much, you'd need wraith to help fly it! Yeah, I'd like to see that happen!

Posted by: Forest Jul 25th 2006, 7:16 PM

Overall I didn?t much care for this episode.

Although some parts were good.

I am actually starting to like Woolsey!

As another poster put a line I love by Beckett

Hehe. I thought that was funny.


Why would they try to control 200 ?Wraith? when controlling 1 was so hard? Wouldn?t it have just been easier to kill them from the first place? I knew something bad would come from it, and it did.

This episode wasn?t a super good one in my opinion.

Posted by: Osy Jul 25th 2006, 9:01 PM

There's a difference between how the Wraith treat humans and how human's treat livestock. ALL Wraith treat humans cruelly but not all humans treat livestock cruelly. In most countries, there are laws in place to protect farm animals meant for human consumption. There are also many farms that are "free range" rather than factory farms. So, there are truly humane alternatives because there are many people, like myself, who care about how the animals are treated and how they live their lives beforehand. Because not ALL humans are evil.


That's exactly why the Wraith are evil. They are basically saying that fear makes their food taste better. So to make their food taste better, they will cause their prey to be terrified. That's cruel and evil. There is no need for it. (Besides, they really aren't tasting anything, are they? No taste buds in their tongues or their tongues at all for that matter, are being used at all. So they are just tormenting their pray for the fun of it.) As long as they get their sustenance to survive....there's no need to "play" with their food.

Posted by: Sighfienerd Jul 25th 2006, 11:05 PM

But Osy it sounds like you're saying that the Wraith are inherently, genetically evil when we've been shown that they aren't (necessarily).

I can't remember the name of the episode, but it was the one where the Wraith girl had been raised by a human. She felt disgust and fear at her feeding urges and didn't desire to hurt anyone. So by nurture, she was more human than Wraith.

Posted by: Revan Jul 26th 2006, 12:09 AM

Instinct?.... EXACTLY... while some Wraith are certainly monstrous, they are just predators looking to feed. I wonder if the writers are making a political commentary here...

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 26th 2006, 12:50 AM

Even though she felt disgust, she still did it. She was still inherently, genetically Wraith. Her "father" was not able to change/save her.

Posted by: JinxY Jul 26th 2006, 1:46 AM

True. But humans can choose whether or not to eat livestock and some choose not to where the wraith cannot make that choice. It was shown in Instinct that although it had been tried nothing can be done. They are not evil by nature just because they are on top of the food chain but it does seem that in time they have begun to enjoy their possition and play with their pray and that is cruel and evil... and it is where the drama comes from, humans are very much evolved in comparison to the other animals and they aware of their condition and can suffer terribly....

Posted by: Osy Jul 26th 2006, 5:57 AM

That's exactly my point. (Regardless of whether humans choose to eat meat or not. It's beside the point. By nature, we are omnivores. Despite popular belief, it isn't healthy to be vegiterian or vegan. We end up lacking vital nurtients we get from meat that don't always break down properly in our system in suppliment form. But since people usually overdo their red meat intake, people associate meat with high cholesterol, etc and see it as unhealthy. We are only supposed to intake small amounts of meat in our diets. But intake it, nevertheless. But how we choose to treat the beings that we feed upon is what is hugely important. But I digress....) I know the Wraith have no other choice but to feed on humans. That's not what makes them evil. What makes them evil is how they treat the humans they are feeding on. They are unnecessarily cruel.


I never recall even implying that. The Wraith are evil because they want to be. Like I said, they could simply capture, feed and move on, like any natural predator should. But they don't. They choose to intimidate, terrorize, manipulate and toy with their pray because they like to and because they can. That's what makes them evil.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 26th 2006, 10:18 AM

osy : but they do capture, feed and move on.. most of the feeding that occurs is done on captured prey.. they terrorised those that would become a threat.. jsut like we kill lions, tigers and otehr top predators that is a threat to us..

and if you look up the slaughter at cattle farms,.. you will see that we are also terrorising the cows as well...

ps: have you look up the way, some of us force feed ducks in order ot get a huge gibbet(spelling?) in order for it to taste better... tell me what is more evil... force feeding animals or the wraiths feeding..

and my example is one of many..

i think you are stuck a bit on the concept that humans are food to the wraith and are in no position to call their actions evil when we are doing exactly the same thing in more cruel ways

Posted by: Osy Jul 26th 2006, 11:12 AM

Yeah, I know all about Foie Gras and I think it's horrific and cruel and I have signed many petitions and written to many politicians to try to ban the practice. Only two states in the U.S. (New York and California) still force feed ducks and geese in order to enlarge their liver. That's what Foie Gras is. It's specifically fatty liver made into a p?t?. Apparently it is a very expensive delicacy. A delicacy that's made from the suffering and agonizing prolonged death of ducks and geese. It's banned in most countries. Fortunately, due to the petitions, letters and emails, Arnold Schwarzenegger has signed a bill to completely ban the production AND sale of Foie Gras in California by 2012 and is already starting to stop the production of it, meaning millions of birds will be spareda cruel existance and a terrible end.

As for the cattle farms, as I said, there are many out there that are free range. These cows live happy lives roaming freely out in the fields to graze as they normally would. They are not subjected to living a life in confinement, like cows in factory farms are. When it comes time for them to be slaughtered, the free range cows are carefully brought inside and their death is made as quickly and painlessly as possible. It is all done humanely.

My point is, there are millions and millions of humans that DO care for the welfare of animals even though they eat them. Now we know the Wraith are an intelligent and advanced society. Do you think for a second there are any Wraith petitioning for the welfare and humane treatment of the humans they feed upon? Of course not! Because they don't care. They like watching the humans suffer. And no the Wraith don't just feed and move on. They capture their prey and store them alive...and aware of their impending demise. Look at the things that they are kept in on their ships. That's like a factory farm to the 1000th power but worse. The humans don't get medical care, regular meals or social interaction. And while factory farms are a terrible place, they at least get that and the livestock are at least blissfully unaware of why they are there. Whereas the humans stuck on those ships all know they are going to die, which is worse.

Look, I'm not saying humans on Earth are perfect. We do a lot of evil things. The way many humans treat animals is unforgivable. But not all of us are that way. With the Wraith, ALL of them are that way. That's the difference. Do you get what I'm saying?

Posted by: Athgar Jul 26th 2006, 12:58 PM

I'd hardly call him a villain, he gets mutated against his will, lied to and held prisoner even after he helped save the Daedalus crew. What would you do in the situation? I doubt I'd sit contently in my prison camp and think positively of the people who had betrayed and 'altered' me




Can we really conclude all wraith treat humans cruelly? If a hypothetical alien witnessed war crimes on earth, could he conclude that all humans are war criminals? I sincerely hope the Wraith will not be written so blandly as a whole race stereotype.

I'd also bring up the Tok'ra in the same sort of principle, though I further hope that sort of parallel doesn't appear or at least not in a similar way

Posted by: Osy Jul 26th 2006, 2:58 PM

So far, this is how the Wraith are being written. Though, I personally think it would be cool to see activist Wraith fighting for the humane treatment of humans.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 26th 2006, 7:59 PM

i beleive your analogy is wrong.. it was scientifically proven in an article a couple of years ago that the cows waiting outside the slaughterhouse know that they are going to die.. the final bleats of their breathen being killed cause their muscles to stiffen and make their meat less tasty.. i can;t rememebr hte exact detail but its there..

also you have to remember that the wraith store humans alive but are mostly i nsuspended animation.. most of the ones that are alive are mostly asleep or unconciious.. only a very few strong willed ones manage to move and talk...and the humans don't need medical care or food.. they are mostly in suspended animnation.. so half of your point is moot..

also the simple fact that humans have a choice as to not eat meat allow for the creation of a class of people petitioning for better animal rights.. the wraith can only feed on humans..and most of the feeding which happens are offscreen but from waht could be seen the feeding is done on a one to one basis.

so the wraith are not exactly evil. they make no pretense as to what they are. unlike humans

Posted by: Osy Jul 26th 2006, 10:27 PM

Unless I am remembering things incorrectly here, but weren't humans not the Wraith's original food source? Didn't they have to create an enzyme or something to better allow for the absorbtion of the life force from the humans?

If I am remembering that correctly, then your entire point is moot, fan_83. That would make the Wraith most definitely evil, because they never needed to feed on humans in the first place. They chose to because they prefered them and they changed their physiology to accommodate it.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 26th 2006, 11:31 PM

That enzme seems to be part of the bugs what the Wraith evolved from. I think it is naturally part of what the Wraith are.

Posted by: startreksuite Jul 27th 2006, 7:08 AM

Well, I'm just pointing out that Michael's first exposure to the retrovirus had him upset, but realized that we could most likely help him out, and the second time he was more hostile. It could be the environment change, or that one's point of view can change, from bouts of amnesia, or something to that effect.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 27th 2006, 8:17 AM

startreksuite: why don;t you try getting betrayed by the ones you have saved.. and tell me how will you feel about that especially its the second time you have been changed into something that you weren't

also the wraiths release the enzymes to help transfer the life force.. it works just like our stomach acids do in order to digest the food.. i don;t see a problem with that

Posted by: Athgar Jul 27th 2006, 8:59 AM

He was more hostile because he remembered it was the second time they had changed him, in spite of his help

Posted by: Mau Jul 27th 2006, 10:35 AM

They put the drug into the ship, giving a chance of wraith killing each other to garantee a survival.Thats logic.Moral limit went to the edge, so no choice in here, but...

Now they make the same mistake twice.
Stupid atlantis team. Make a community of non-humans.It goes against every racional thinking...under those circunstances, without no prove that the drug will work, they actually made the mistake twice.

It would be more logical do kill the remain wraith. The Wraith caracther doesn?t give any other choice.Death to all. Its not a war about wrong or right. Its a war about survival of two different species, and to tell you the true, im hatting more the humans than the wraith.

Whats the point on continue with this nonsene episodes? Jesus, its history repeating. I?m starting to get piss of with this series...
Hope not to see this drug history one more time, or else f*** the tvshow....

and Mr. Woosley and team...ok you done your part. Don?t want to ear from you again, with the bitchcomplain. We already saw that on previous episodes...
This episode was total bs.

Posted by: Revan Jul 27th 2006, 11:40 PM

I agree with you. It exists as a by-product of evolution because they were better able to feed on their prey. It gave them an advantage because they could more efficiently and more effectively consume nutrients from their victims.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 28th 2006, 12:17 AM

Also on Earth there are insects that inject venum not to directly kill their prey but to soften and liquify the tissue of their prey so that they can be consumed. The insect does not give a sh*t if the prey is alive during the feeding though it will be dead. They just inject and wait for their dinner to cook! I think of the Wraith this way. Their aim is not to kill, dying is just a byproduct of feeding on humans.

Posted by: hobo_joe20 Jul 28th 2006, 12:21 AM

I don't know ... some of the wraith we have seen appear to quite enjoy watching the life slip away from their "food" ...

Posted by: Auntie Em! Jul 28th 2006, 12:39 AM

Oh hell they love watching the life suck away from their prey. I did not mean the Wraith did not care. Hell they thrive on that. It seems to give them more energy. I think that their huge grins and smiles whilst they feed gave me a huge hint on the matter at hand!

Posted by: Revan Jul 28th 2006, 12:46 AM

Some snake's venom paralyzes their victim. That is interesting to watch.




They are psychic, they can feel our emotions. Remember? The Queen in Rising got excited by the Colonel's valor. Besides, the Wraith do not know anything else. Michael is the only one that has that unique human perspective.

Posted by: Osy Jul 28th 2006, 7:08 AM

Ok, so the Wraith do not know anything else. Well, whose fault is that? There is no reason the Wraith could not try to become friendly with humans and try to understand them. People become friendly with animals and try to understand them even though we eat them.

Also, we keep equating the Wraith to animals. But there is a big difference. The Wraith are an intellectually and technologically advanced society. Animals live only by instinct to survive because it is ALL they have to survive. When you are intellectually and technologically advanced, that negates most instinctual behaviour. They have the intelligence and technology to study human beings and get to know what they are like as a species. They could have learned ways of "hunting", "culling" and feeding that would have been most humane and caused least amount of fear and stress to the humans, so that the humans could live their lives on their respective planets without living in terror. But the Wraith choose not to do that. They take delight in the human's fear. That goes beyond instinct. Animals do not enjoy the fear of their pray. It's not something that even registers with them. There's a big difference.

Posted by: fan_83 Jul 28th 2006, 8:07 AM

osy you just answered your own question... the wraith wants the humans living in fear and terror because it makes the food more tasty...
when yo ulive under opressions, they will be some of you who feel that they have nothing else to lose and therefore grow a spirit to fight back, this is the spirit which the wraith prizes so much as its more tasty

and the funny thing is that ,we are also intellectually and technologically more advanced than animals and yet we aren't saints when it comes to the treatment of animals. i don't think we are in a positon to comment until we fix our mess

and you talk about it being humane... please explain why would the wraith subscribe to a human notion of treatment of its food? why should the wraith follow human concepts. you work under the assumption that the wraith share human charasteristic.... wraith are more bug than human and their instinct and thought pattern are more bug than human

Posted by: IndyJan Jul 28th 2006, 12:06 PM

The Wraith like food/humans that are strong and show valor. The Queen said that makes the eating more enjoyable for them. In the season 1, 2-parter opener, she commented about that because Sumner fought and was not afraid. She also commented about the first guy that she fed on, did not put up much of a fight. He was not as tasty.

The Wraith are part human, but mostly bug. From how they act and react, I would say their human counterpart is very low. Remember the young female child that was found. The man tried to raise her and make her human. Tried to stop her from feeding. He thought he had. He even let her feed on himself, but it served no purpose. She may have felt bad about it, but she still participated in the Wraith feedings.

Posted by: Osy Jul 28th 2006, 2:06 PM

Dude, what the heck are you talking about? What question?

Posted by: startreksuite Jul 29th 2006, 8:34 AM

I don't pretend to be morally superior to the wraith, or that I would do anything different than what Michael did. If you really read my post, you would have realized that I was saying was that it was interesting how Michael changed from hero of the humans to their nemesis! I didn't say I didn't understand what he went through, or I wouldn't done the same in his place! Of course if you helped someone out and they turned on you, whether for the higher good or not, you'd be ticked they did it, and go against them. I found this interesting, this event that occurs, human nature has this naturally occuring, it's not exclusive to the wraith. I'm sorry you thought I didn't get it, but I do.

Posted by: Dan70 Jul 29th 2006, 9:43 AM

I'm not entirely sure what the 'moral' treatment of micheal after he helped us was supposed to be. If they let him go than he could still bring the wraith back to atlantis - again - and would it be fair to the humans he would consume after he was released. Alternativly, keeping him locked up in Atlantis for eternity wouldn't be much better, especialy when he would still need to feed to survive. The best thing for him is to turn him into a human and take away his memory of being a wraith (he couldn't handle being a human but knowi g he was a wraith last time). Unfortunantly this didn't work, though they didn't know this at the time.

Posted by: dr lee Aug 8th 2006, 10:37 AM

The post that i was responding to was deleted.

Posted by: Revan Aug 8th 2006, 4:36 PM

I deleted his post.

Why did they force Michael to become a human again? Were they just trying to make him angry?

Posted by: startreksuite Aug 9th 2006, 7:09 AM

They did it for two reasons. One, because he knew the location of Atlantis, and could tell others about it. If he was treated, he would forget. Also, the treatment supposedly had a better hold on the wraith dna, with better results. I guess not!

Posted by: Revan Aug 9th 2006, 3:11 PM

But he remembered. They should have known he remembered, given that when he reverted originally, he regained his memories.

Apparently, the better treatment was better. It more effectively made them human, but preserved some of their minds.

Posted by: IndyJan Aug 9th 2006, 10:24 PM

Yes this treatment was better. That is why Beckett wanted to go back because there were Wraith that had been turned into humans that were counting on them as their saviors.

Posted by: Pitry Aug 14th 2006, 5:10 AM

So there is moral ambiguity in the world! So the by-any-means-necessary attitude isn't accepted by all Atlantis characters! Hooray, at last. It wasn't that much better, but after the past two seaosns, I'm finally getting some hope. The thing so apparent in SG-1 - the world isn't black and white - finally finds its way to Atlantis, too.

Why does it have to be the medical doctor, tho? Out of all the science fiction cliches - and as much as I enjoy the fact Beckett gets some much needed attention - why the medical doctor?!

Eh, Michael survived. Obviously. The temptation is too high. No one ever dies.
So now we have in the galaxy a rogue human with Wraith influences and a rogue Wraith with human influences?... I can jsut see the spin off - Stargate: Michael & Ford! Ye, gods. I hope it doesn't mean they're throwing Ford out to the cold - while I didn't like the whole Wraith Enzyme plot, I enjoyed the character in season 1 and hope to see him again.

Amusing, all in all...

Posted by: IndyJan Aug 14th 2006, 11:01 PM

Pitry, I have posted a few times about this very issue, almost from the first. The very worst person who has just wanted to go out there and do whatever, take whatever, by any means, no matter who or what it hurts, is McKay. How many times during season 1, let's get the zpm, we need it. Forgot that it would leave a world defenseless from the Wraith. McKay is truly all about me, me, and me.

It boggles my mind just how bad the Atlantis team is. I remember comparing them to SG1. SG1 did not take things from a world or race. Good grief in SG1, Shades of Grey,

In fact, there were times that SG1 went back to correct problems that occurred, but they never took things and left a world or a people defenseless.

Posted by: Pitry Aug 15th 2006, 4:58 AM

I know Indy, I suspect I've been screaming at the moral issues of Atlantis since the Geneva convention comment.

I accept it in McKay because he's that kind of person. I don't mind having someone pose that POV - as long as there develops an on-screen "debate" about it. That's the thing in SG1 - Jack never believed in it, not to the extant you can see in Atlantis, but there often was debate on the matter between him and Daniel. Or episodes like Shades of grey, the Sentinel, Enigma - they at least showed both POVs. Yes, my little holier-than-thou morla world (I've no illusion about that, I know I belong to that group...) was happy that the heroes chose the view I agree with, but there was debate.

There's no moral debate in Atlantis. It's "we do what we need to survive and that's it." Had Weir - thew way, at least, I see her character - stood up to Rodney's and Sheppard's attitude saying, Okay, maybe what we're doing here is wrong, I would have been glad - but not one character accepts that. It's "we'll do whatever we need to survive and there's no moral issue about it!"... which really gets on my nerves.

It's even more apparent when you compare it to the way SG1 dealt with their enemies, for example Rite of Passage

I don't see such a thing ever happening in Atlantis.

Posted by: IndyJan Aug 15th 2006, 10:57 AM

Pitry, I so agree. You would think that with Weir being the supposed diplomat that she is, she would be the one to voice concerns. Okay, she's the leader, and they do need to survive, but you would hope to see her think about it once in awhile. I don't care for Teyla and to have her voice her concerns, irritates me to no end.

Daniel and Jack did discuss these issues time and again. Yes, Jack knew what had to be done, but he never just took or did. Even in the movie, Jack let the people of Abydos survive. He made sure the nuke was on Ra's ship. It was mentioned in the SG1 series premiere,

What I don't get is that both shows are written pretty much by the same writers, even ones that wrote for SG1 in the early seasons. You would think that they would remember that.

Posted by: FrankM Aug 15th 2006, 1:19 PM

I liked this episode ... I disagreed with the way Michael was treated. I understand he is still a wraith afterall but he was being rejected by the Wraith and could have been some kind of friend, well, maybe not firend but we could have treated him differently. Of course I don't think he could have just been set free but experimenting on him again was obviously a mistake. Overall I liked this episode.

Posted by: Pitry Aug 16th 2006, 4:34 AM

Couldn't agree more. I feel with Teyla much like I felt with Jonas in season 6. It feels forced. It doesn't feel the moral concerns come from a character who is moral, the way it came from Daniel - for Daniel, it was a natural part of the character. It feels like, "oh we need someone to voice a moral concern - Sheppard no, McKay no, Weir no, Ronon no... Teyla!" It just makes her character more inconsistant - the same thing that happened with Jonas when they decided to do that in season 6.



The even more surprising part is that SG1 still deals with the moral dillemas. (dilemmas? Grrr.) They still don't have - and never had - a "by any means necessary" attitude - even with the Orii, I don't get that impression. Moreover - Crusade/ Ripple Effect spoilers

So they (= writers) can't have forgotten, or changed their view of life, or whatever. Which is the one thing I can't get through with in my head - hwo come this is so blatantly missing from Atlantis?!

Posted by: Revan Aug 16th 2006, 9:47 AM

Dilemna.

I noticed that too. It could just be due to the actors they have available. They might be having difficulty giving their characters moral views. OR TPTB are being dumb.

I agree that... you would think Weir would be more considerate than she is. She even said it in Critical Mass, 'we crossed a line'... That is what I want to see.

Posted by: IndyJan Aug 16th 2006, 8:48 PM

Yeah, Weir needs to do more of that. One comment, "we crossed the line," just doesn't cut it. If they can still keep the moral dilemma on SG1 with the Ori, why can't they on Atlantis with the Wraith? I feel the Ori are far worse then the Wraith. I mean if worse comes to worse, they can retreat back through the gate to Earth. It's not as if they are alone.

Posted by: Revan Aug 16th 2006, 10:51 PM

I would have less of a problem with them taking drastic and unnecessary measures if they were stranded and without hope of rescue. They aren't.... they can go home anytime they want to do so. Even Caldwell isn't about to go psychotically attacking a Wraith Hive... It is like... they are taking turns being the voice of morality...

Posted by: IndyJan Aug 17th 2006, 7:32 PM

This is what I said. If they had still been stranded as they were in season 1, I might, like you be more understanding, but they are not. Not only can they return home, but the Daedelus is around with Caldwell.

Posted by: originIsSalvation Aug 26th 2006, 6:51 AM

I just saw the recently and I have to say, they've done some really good cross-overs this season with this episode and The Pegasus Project.
Season 3 is shaping up to be a really good season, but they really have to learn to hold on to big warships for more than 5 seconds.

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 25th 2006, 4:21 PM

Not a bad episode but not as good as 'No Man's Land'. I think the overall plot was pretty obvious really although I didn't expect them to change Michael back into a Human again.
There's a couple of nitpicks I had:
-Why was McKay able to complete the manual interface so quickly considering he said that he couldn't even move the ship? To from not being able to move a ship to piloting it through hyperspace is a huge leap in such a short space of time.
-Why does Michael look different? Every male Wraith either had long, white hair or was bald. Michael has short, brown hair but when we saw him being transformed in season 2 he had long, white hair. His hair should not be short and brown.

Posted by: JTMAG1 Oct 25th 2006, 10:02 PM

I had that same thought about his hair. My guess was that it was a sign of his being corrupted (?I don't remember what term the queen used) by his time with the humans. It made him stand out more and we could relate to why he was not accepted by the other Wraith.

Posted by: Revan Oct 25th 2006, 10:20 PM

He only had brown hair when he was human, it got grey when he turned back. His hair was short because they cut it, and possibly a different color because they used an experimental version of the drug on him, leaving a lasting effect.

Everyrone else they turned was turned using the gas.

Posted by: JC1 Oct 26th 2006, 9:29 AM

This was an allright epsiode. I was a bit dissappointed they wasted the captured hive ship so quickly. Are they ever going to have a keep one these ships for more than an episode?

I felt Micheal was treated really badly by the Atlantis team. Twice he was turned into something he didn't want to be, even after he saved Shepard, Ronon and Mckay. Remembering this, he really didn't have much choice, but to do what he did in this episode.

The only other thing I found intresting, was Woolsey's conversation with Caldwell. It seems Caldwell, still might have his eye on Shepards job.

Posted by: Hayes Johnmichael Oct 27th 2006, 3:29 PM

Atlantis is like far away from earth so they have limited supplies until a delivery comes but where did 200 suits and footwear come from, they couldnt of had it already packed on the daedalus just incase this happned coz it wasnt planned !!

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 27th 2006, 4:45 PM

Atlantis doesn't recieve supplies as and when they are needed, anything they could possibly need is transported on every run Daedalus makes and it is stored in Atlantis until it is needed. Those suits were just one example.

Posted by: Revan Oct 27th 2006, 6:21 PM

I would hope Atlantis had extra cloth and a tailor, just in case they ever needed it.

Posted by: Dafmeister Oct 27th 2006, 6:29 PM

There's no real need for a tailor, etc. The personel mainly wear military designed attire, which would be transported via Daedalus. It would be too costly and time consuming for the city to have a few people to produce all the clothing needed for the hundreds of personel in Atlantis.
Is it just me or do the episode discussion threads seem to be going off in some weird tangents?

Posted by: Revan Oct 27th 2006, 6:47 PM

Before the Daedalus arrived, they would have needed that kind of thing... they don't now.

It might be you, but it might not be... I will have a look-see.

Posted by: Pitry Oct 29th 2006, 1:09 PM

They already have wayyyy too much power on their hands. I hope they don't. It would give them a too unrealistic advantage.

Posted by: Hayes Johnmichael Oct 29th 2006, 1:45 PM

i can see it happening like in Sg1. get a ship then it gets destroyed and so on and so on

Posted by: cosmos Nov 8th 2006, 11:14 AM

I don't really see what they could have possibly gain from using the dewraithifying drug like that.
What was the point of keeping that camp is beyond me. I understand why they used it in the previous episode but on this one, I don't.

Their previous experience with Michael should have been adequate to know that these people would try to learn about their past no matter what. And especially since the Atlantians weren't prepared to stay there indefinitely and commit resources to keeping them look human and feel human.

As said by others, dewraithifying Michael for the second time was just plain wrong.
In my view they have missed an opportunity to a diplomatic solution. From the available data they collected from Michael, they knew that humanised Wraith were not accepted as pure Wraith any longer, effectively becoming a separate sect. One with the understanding of what it is to be human.

They could have tried to promote the idea that the drug enhibits the feeling of Hunger allowing them to have another choice. No longer will their lives revolve around the burning sensation of hunger, no longer will they have to suffer from not enough 'food' for their overgrowing population.

They could have tried to promote all that to Michael at first and getting him past his first bad experience, use him as an intermediary to others gone through that transformation. Given some time the drug can be perfected so that it won't inhibit their own memories, so that they would remember who they are or perhaps taking it part time could have the same effect.

Not every once-humanised Wraith would find that a good idea but some of them might. All in all its a plan with far more benefits for everybody if it produces results than what they are doing now is for Atlantis - which amounts to nothing. Plus they have alienated Michael enirely and missed that chance already.
-----
Another comment I have for this episode, is about Caldwel and Sheppard. I found very amusing that Caldwel would always check for lifesigns and then presume Sheppard dead and then of course he is always alive. I laughed at the end when Sheppard has forgotten to decloak and so once more Caldwell was thinking this time he is gone and then of course he wasn't.

Posted by: thehighcommander Jan 17th 2007, 1:38 AM

so, they still have the left over darts from the hive ship right? when they were loading into the jumper to fly down to the planet, there were none in the hanger (and the hanger was undamaged so obviously it wasnt the one they blew up to stop the ship)

i highly doubt the wraith woudl launch every single fighter they had and not save some as reserves

Posted by: cdpage Mar 6th 2007, 9:01 PM

An ok EP.

I really don't like what they did with Michael. Its a #5 or what ever his name was from SG-1 replicators.

typicly SG1 would treat the goa'uld with more respect. and it always served them well.

Frankly Micheal would have made for one of our best alies againt the Ori. But i guess that would mean introducing them to our galaxy...albeit a small number.

I suppose like cason said, they have the expeirance to gain. he should be at least a little further in his studdies now.

Posted by: Revan Mar 6th 2007, 11:00 PM

The Ori and Wraith will likely never cross blades... TPTB want them to be two different and separate shows.

Posted by: bostjan91 Aug 19th 2007, 2:24 PM

I'm just thinking - why use such a virus which transform them only temporarly? I know that they didn't have any other thing, but they couldn't do that for ever (giving them injections)

Posted by: Uncle JTMAG1 Aug 19th 2007, 3:47 PM

I think the idea was to transform them permanently, but the retrovirus was still in experimental stages.

Posted by: bostjan91 Aug 20th 2007, 2:04 AM

But why did they want to transform them into humans - Wraiths didn't agree with the idea, why bother if they want to be Wraiths. You can be evil as human or as a Wraith.

Posted by: Auntie Em! Aug 20th 2007, 2:17 AM

I believe that they wanted to turn the wraith back into humans so that the wraith could feed on them. They would in infact start culling themselves and leave the humans in the PG alone.

Do not worry about your mistakes with english. At least you can speak/write in two languages. That is one more than what I can do.