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> Episode 701 "Fallen", Spoilers (Part 2 of 2)
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Sam's Sister
post Jun 15th 2003, 3:00 AM
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QUOTE (The Moody Goa'uld @ Jun 14 2003, 04:34 PM)
And to Sam's sister's comment I think 2001: A Space Odyssey was more important in establishing scifi as serious film genre than star wars.


Yes, I thought about that, too. I know that was an important film. No doubt it influenced Lucas. So perhaps what I should have said was that SW seemed to establish SciFi as a serious mainstream film genre. I don't think people connected with "2001" the way they did with SW. SW was more accessible.

I think that because of that, SW established SciFi films as a forum for cultural mythmaking (the new Western or WWII film). Good triumphing over evil, etc. Joseph Campbell has commented on this in The Power of Myth. I love what he says about Darth Vader representing man's conflicted relationship with machines (which, of course, 2001 did first).

I also think that most of these SciFi shows borrow ideas from other sources. Or great minds think alike. I do think Stargate has a lot of original ideas, but it has explored a lot of things that Star Trek (for example) explored, too: symbiotes, time travel, how to deal with alien cultures without interfering, hyper space, weapons arrays, mind probes, etc. But we don't just watch for the original things, we watch to see how this set of writers answer those recurring questions about the universe. They all seem to deal with Daniel's "meaning of life stuff" at one point or another, and I for one like to see how various series approach that.

Actually, I wish I hadn't read the spoilers for this episode before watching it. Many of you are on the east coast and had already posted before it came on here in the west. I couldn't resist. I wonder whether I would have noticed the SW references as much if I hadn't. Probably. But it wouldn't have bothered me anyway. Let's agree to disagree.

Sorry, somewhat off-topic. Perhaps we should start a separate topic for this.
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iamcrazy
post Jun 15th 2003, 11:15 AM
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so what happened to the asgard in this ep? Do I have to pull out my season 6 eps and watch them again? Did I miss something?

Why trust Yu when we just helped the asgard (practically) freeze their enemy in time?
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sunspark
post Jun 25th 2003, 2:49 PM
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parts of this episode are obviously ripped off star wars, i hope season 7 doesnt become a rehash, the beginning of homecoming is a rip of independence day (may i say i am a very big stargate fan, not a little sh*t who thinks stargate is crap and comes on this website to whinge)
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NomadWFS
post Jun 25th 2003, 7:37 PM
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After reading through this post, and been a long time fan of SG1 (although I only now realized there was such a big fan community) i simply must express some opinions/ideas I have on Season 7.

######-WARNING######-
The following information include SPOILERS and other such information about Season 7. Read on at your own risk.
######-WARNING######-

Anywayz...

Here's my opinion on Lord Yu: (I hope I spelled that right...)

As Jack would put it, once a snake, always a snake. I very much doubt that a goua'uld (I hope I spelled that right too...) of any kind would defect to the Tok'ra under any duress. We've all seen how the goua'uld have a supreme arrogance about them, a limitless resolve, and an endless bag of tricks (ie the priest who thought she 'tamed' her symbiote, bomb in Cassandra, etc etc) and I think the only reason the Tok'ra exist even at all is that a time before the goua'uld became so very conceited and arrogant, maybe even a time where things were much more peaceful, the Tok'ra broke off. As has been said, the Tok'ra broke off millenia ago, and do not share the Goua'uld's arrogance and apathy for human life. Maybe the Tok'ra broke off at a time when they saw fellow goua'uld becoming increasingly evil...

Another theory I have is that the sarcoughagus is the whole reason the goua'uld are evil the way they are. I think that when the sarcoughagus was invented and before the tok'ra and goua'uld split, it was overused by some of these goua'uld, and overuse made them deranged and evil, when in fact, the rest of the goua'uld race may have been progressing toward a more peaceful path. One thing leads to another, and they ultimately split. But, that's just me.

Lord Yu is a rather old system lord, compared to his fellow system lords. Next to maybe Chronus, Ra, Annubis, and a few others, I think he is the oldest. This is because he is so old that not even the sarcoughagus (another spelling error lol) can fully restore him. Thus, he has the most experience ruling. I think he is the most skilled politician of the bunch. He sees many of the oppurtunities that us Earth people present him as adventageous to him and usually goes through with them, where most other System Lords would dismiss them out of arrogance. Lord Yu also, IMO, doesn't have any forces greater than his fellow System Lords. The fact he has survived so many battles can't be any indication. We've all seen how Apophis has cheated death, defeat, humiliation and other things only to come to raise a new fleet. What did it ultimately take? We had to crash a mothership into his home planet at full speed just to make sure he died. Not even a nova stopped him. So, Lord Yu was simply as lucky as most of the System Lords always are- they always slip out at the last second when their armies die, only to rebuild them. I think the only thing that would defeat such a system lord would be overwhelming force. Annubis exibits the classic snakey-head arrogance; dispatching minor lords to deal with him whom he either soundly defeats, sooner or later. IF Annubis brought the whole of his power against Lord Yu and only Lord Yu, I think he would defeat him, eventually.


Now, about Annubis...

Season 6 threw a few plot twists into the mix that could have dire consequences for Earth. Aside from his mastery of Ancients' technology, he has ascended ... like Daniel. Ascension makes you into an energy form, and among other things, these energy beings like Ulma, and the others ARE the Ancients. How do you kill an Ancient? Now, granted that Annubis isn't fully ascended, it still poses a problem. All other system lords, up until Annubis, were just goua'uld inside of humans, or unas, etc. The question I want to know is how do you kill Annubis, assuming you could board his ship and managed to get enough alone time with him? Daniel, at least from what I think, was prevented bu the other Ancients, most likely Ulma, from killing Annubis, since right after it happens, his first prime says, "You ARE all powerful!" and he replies with, "It was not of my doing." This explains why Daniel wakes up in the middle of a planet with the ruins of an Ancient city and his memory is erased. After all, Daniel talked about how ascending gives a person understanding of almost everything.

Annubis also has the potential to become the dominant system lord, since not only is he almost un-killable, his ships are nearly invincible. Unless some great powers intervene (cough) Asgard (cough), we are royally screwed.

I also hope the Tolan make an apperance in season 7. I miss those guys. Seeing as how they are not as all powerful in their isolation as they thought themselves to be, maybe they will help us in our fight against Annubis.

Plus, the lingering idea of all those Ancients Ulma is helping ascend makes me think that maybe, just maybe, that these ascended beings might battle Annubis.

Sorry its so long, but those were some ideas I had.

######-WARNING######-
The above information include SPOILERS and other such information about Season 7. Read on at your own risk.
######-WARNING######-

On the subject of how SG1 took ideas from Star Wars, and other such shows, here's what I have to say:

I got a real kick out of it. I thought it was hillarious. It was obvious that they were ripped ideas, and I think the whole purpose of adding them was to lighten the mood, and make a grave situation a little funny. If you'll notice, there are several references to other shows, for example, when Jack wants to name the X-303 the Enterprise, when the scientists who decide to save Jack and his team talk constantly about Star Trek, and other such references.

I honestly think it was all to put some humor into the show. I mean, how interesting can a space battle really be? At least this way, it was funner. wink.gif
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