1) I am sure Orlin(5.03 Ascension) could interact as a "ghost" when he met Sam for the first time, he was in the street and walked through her Kitchen. He explained then that they can take Corporeal form for short amounts of time.

Then because he wanted to take it to the next level, he descended so he could have a higher level of interaction with Sam.

(I think)

2)I dont really see them knowing where an Ascended Ancient is, is a problem, It was made quite clear that she cannot give them any information or help in anyway so for the SGA team (apart from Sheppard who has other interests) it doesnt matter if she is there or not.

Theres one thing i dont like about this episode. The Ancients were at war with the Wraith. Now they are acended and they could wipe out fleets of Wraith ships by using their minds. Why didn't they just destroy the Wraith and let their people live in peace.

Yay sheppard got a girl.....but won't this be like the sam/pete/jack thing but sheppard/teyla/n tht ancient person


*sigh* if only love was simple in movies/seris


Emma x x

To quote Daniel in Abyss - "The hardest part of being who or what I am is having the power to change the things I want to change and knowing that I can't...Even when I'm certain, even when it's absolutely clear to me, even when it affects the people I care about, because for all I can do...I'm no more qualified to play God than the Goa'uld are."

I think that's basically the Ancients' reasonings as well.

The anicents, i a nutshell had a prime directive - do not give help to those that do not have the ability to help themselves, do not change things which affect the future of the universe - basically it's: Mind Your Own Business, Do Not Get Involved In Other Species Wars.

The Ancients decided that they would not do anything major, they hardly made themselves known to others. Chaya/Athor broke the rules by helping others.
They had the power to destroy the wraith but chose not to because one of their decisions were that they would not use their powers in such a form.

and i'm not making any sense so you'll probably not understand anything which i just said.

We know that the Ancients can create the illusion of anything they want like what Oma did at Abydos. Athar thus has the ability to make it seem like her planet is densely populated like Earth. If Major Sheppard can leak out false information about a massive 5 billion people population on her planet to the Wraith simultaneously broadcasting to the hives, I'm sure they'd all rush for a feed. Then Athar can "protect her people" thus crippling the Wraith at the same time. They only need to do this discretely so The Others do not find out about their scheme until it's too late and the Wraith come to her planet. Athar would need to create the illusion of dense population so that any recon will see it and confirm the great find. What do you guys think?

but that would mean someone would have to face the wraith in order to get the information across.

i wonder if they will keep in contact with that planet?

Remember that they're yet to fully explore the downed Wraith ship a few eps back, The Defiant One. I'm sure that they'd be able to hook up some power to it and find out how to get into the Wraith communications network. From there they may be able to broadcast the information. If not then they can work on finding out how to broadcast to a Wraith Hive using what they find on that ship, bring it back to Atlantis and once they have it working to dial a Stargate near a Wraith Hive and broadcast through it.

That may not be true.
List of possible Ancients we have met

Anubis: half ancient half goauld. Possibly ascended, but not fully.
Oma: protector for the harcicist
Orlin: the one who talked to carter, and decides to ascend.
Chaya: The protector of the paradise [Atlantis]
Daniel Jackson: Weird plot, cool though. Ascended and got kicked out.
The monk in Oma Desala's temple. He ascended.

And i think there are more. I just cant remember em.

possible ancient
Weir
teyla



YES. i love this episode. very cool. very ancientsy... Thats why i like atlantis, because i want to know more about the ancients!

This post has been edited by noradd: Dec 5th 2004, 9:02 AM

Weir and Teyla are not possible ancients...they don't even have the ATA gene.
Dr. Becket and Major Sheppard have the ATA gene and so they may be one of the descendants of the ancients.

I think the Others would know if Chaya created an illusion like this, thus intefering.

It would be like Orlin (5.03 Ascension)and the Others would kill all of those on Chaya's planet and all the SGA team.

I apologise for the late reply:

You are quite right. I forgot about that fact, but didn't Chaya take on the form for a longer duration than any other? I guess when she was 'sleeping' she could have reverted.

This is a problem if the team are desperate. They can also try to use this fact to an advantage. As someone has already mentioned, a message to the wraith about the planet would surely cripple them as Chaya must protect her people.
With SG1 there was a moral issue, but the Atlantis team seem to lack morality especially McKay and Shepperd.

I wasn't talking about all ascended (Full circle had a whole group of ascended people), but original ascended and ancient.

Here's my list :-
Original Ascended:
Oma
Orlin
Chaya

Ancient:
The above three, and also the woman at the beginning of SG Atlantis, also in Frozen in SG1.

BTW, all humans are descendent of the Ancient. As Beckitt puts it, our evolution has simply divurge.

Well not all humans would be descendend from ancients.. perhaps from a more primative form of their evolution creating a very similar path but not a direct descendancy.

Why do you say that? Just wondered about your reasoning...

The Ancients are the first ones there as Dr Bekitt said (and other episode), which implies that humans must be descended from the Ancients no matter are weak the genes are, or evolutionary stages. Stargate unlike Star trek goes into great length to show that distinct races are completely different although humanoid.

a certain phrase that has been thrown around a lot on the show is that humans are the "second evolution" of humankind, which means we started out from scratch and evoled into something akin to the ancients, wheather the happened because we were seeded by the ancients or it was just a random fluke doesnt change the fact that we didnt descend from the ancients(well there could have been frisky ancients running around on earth among humans sometime in our past but that would be after we evoled)

Surely 'second evolution' means that we evolved from The Ancients themselves. Much like us evolving from a certain type of ape is an evolutionary step (assuming you believe we evolved from ape like creatures).

But I do understand what you mean, a second stage of sentient beings could have evolved from Earth after the Ancients left, and look similar because of similar environment and conditions. But would it be so similar that some people would have the same genes?

Is it not easier for the genes to dissappear (through dilution and mutation), than it is for the genes to build up to be the same again? How would humans have exactly the same physiology as the Ancients.

If it happened once there is a minute chance it could happen again. All that might have happened is that tiny chance has played out in this story. Also if its just 10,000 years the ancients could have passed on that gene to humans themselves for all we know.

From what I hear animals supposidly share some genes with humans.. so why not the same here?

We contain about 75% of the genetic material found in Bananas. And something in the very high 90s percentage of the genetic material of monkeys (could well be above 99%, i forget biology...)

They've not made it clear what they mean yet, either we evolved from the same primates as the ancients did, wether we were engineered by the ancients or something else entirely.

This is only season one, remember. We may all have been waiting for answers about this stuff since SG1 S5/6, but they can't reveal it all in Atlantis S1, else there'd be nothing left to write about!

Patience, people!

adam.

This whole ascension concept i think is rather flawed....
I presume that everyone (the ancients) didnt suddenly learn how to ascend...so obviously 1 or 2 ancients would have figured out how to ascend. Then once they have ascended, they would show others how to do so and eventually u get alot of people ascending and then they form their laws about not interfering with the mortals (us)... The flaw comes in the part before they formed the laws of not meddling in the affairs of the physical. ONce the first guy ascends and realises the power he possessed....once of his top priorities i would imagine would be to stop and plague and put the wraith on the endangered species list.

That is true of course. And the Ancients were supposedly wiped out by the Wraith or the plague. The mystery is why is the Pegasus universe scattered with humans - ie where did they all come from before the Wraith herded them.

We know that our universe is scattered with humans because the Gao'uld used them as slaves and relocated many humans in the early times.

Your also assuming that the Ancients are the first race to ascend. There could be a higher power involved, or a battle that is greater than the mortal coils itself. Or as the next evolutionary step. If the first ascended stopped the plague, then the Ancients might never have ascended.

Can you be teach how to ascend? Ascension only happens on death, yet not all Ancients ascended. I always thought that all you need is to leave your Earthly desires and baggages behind, yet Chaya and Daniel Jackson proved this wrong.

I'm not usre.. in Maternal Instinct the monk tells Bra'tac he has to remove his symbiote in order to ascend, and when Daniel asks him if he has to die to, the monk says no.

I never liked this ascension idea. It makes the show somehow religious... Powerful spirit-like angelic beings floating around...
It is easy to think that there could be parasitic aliens which can wrap around someone's brainstem, but then these some ideas like Oma Desala and "the others" and her little monk friend and all the "If you know the candlelight is fire, the meal was cooked a long time ago." and blablabla and the glowing clouds...geez. This atlantis episode felt more like an episode from "Touched by an angel"...

In my opinion, at least Budha ascended.

Sentinel

there was no wonder why the wraith didn't touch their planet when she was around