WOW

Damn good episode!

Like most people here, I think the reason for the Tokra leaving the alliance is quite dumb and an improper reason to leave. The Jaffa's reason was damn good and it was well thought over and I had to agree with them. But the Tokra arrogance really got to me in this episode and their act of "kicking" Selmak of the council finally made me agree with Jack's view of the Tokra.

On a lighter note, I was expecting Jack to say something like "Get up Carter, Pete's waiting back home" or something close to that. But the taking her close thing made me cringe again

Plot and story were brilliant. I was not a big fan of Grace or Fallout and I think this episode finally got things on track again after Chimera.

On a super soldier note, I cant believe not even one member of SG1 can get hit by the weapon. I felt that the writers were making SG1 members a bunch of super soldiers in their own right.

Saying that, I sure hope the alliance does not end here. Bratac's speech in Allegiance moved me and I thought that everything was going well between the alliance. Just goes to show u that SG1 is unlike other shows where u can guess everything

Not Big one from me today, and the fact that most of what im gonna say has already been said

this it what it should be, old skool stargate.
love the ending now that our allies are leaving for now. that leaves thor (and he could kick all their asses)

but anyways my rating for this episode was an excellent
***1/2

and i cant stand this bloody jack sam stuff people go on about. its a scifi show if you want crap like that watch a soap.

EDIT: love the super-Zat

This post has been edited by Raxor: Jan 28th 2004, 9:33 AM

I also have to say this is a good ep.

Why....

No freaking Starwars sh_t
No Freaking spaceships
No shippy sh_t.

Just good old-school stargate.

I thought I would just add give my opinion on a few things. Firstly, about the Alpha, Beta, Gamma....... sites. It seems to me that we must have 3 off-world bases:
1. The original Alpha Site (compromised after Anubis captured Jonas)
2. The Alpha Site shown in this episode
3. The Beta Site mentioned in this episode.

It is also probable that two more bases will be needed. They cannot use the Beta Site mentioned in this episode because the Tok'ra and the Jaffa know about it and if any of their operatives were captured they could reveal the location of the base. Another site will be needed in case of an attack on the new Beta site (which will become the Alpha Site now). Am I making any sense? I think I am.

On another note, we have to decide what to call the weapon. TER, super-zat, or anything else? Suggestions?

This post has been edited by jaffagod: Jan 28th 2004, 2:54 PM

Yeah your quite right saying we have to make a name for this weapon seeing as the show didn't
I think Super-Zat is pretty cool, or you could have TER Mrk 2, SSD (Super Soldier destroyer), DE (Drone Eliminator).
Ok my suggestions suck

No offence but I think it is you who is confused.

The alliance has completely ended otherwise why did Jacob have that conversation with Sam at the end saying that he wouldn't be seeing her for quite a while. If the alliance was still up and running Jacob would still be popping back to Earth every now and then like he always has. So sorry mate but you're the one who's got it wrong! Plus the fact do you really think that absolutely everyone else who has written about it could be getting it wrong and you are the only one to rightly interpret it? Sorry man but that just doesn't add up

Anyhoo I really liked this episode. I liked the way they all showed how much they cared for Sam without it being too overstated. I also really like the way that now that Sam has a boyfriend, Jack is more free to show friendship towards her without it being misinterpreted.

Most other stuff has already been said so I'll leave it at that. I'd give it 8/10

Death Knell

The death of the Tok'ra, Jaffa Tauri alliance? It seems so.
It was quite a nice little surprise that the alliance actually appeared to come to an end by the time the episode was over. Normally you watch these types of episodes, wait for Daniel's impassioned speech and expect everything to work out ok in the end. This bucked the clich? (to mix my metaphors) by splitting the alliance up for, what appears to be, some pretty legitimate reasons. After all the only ones with everything to gain and not much to lose by it were the Tauri.
I don't think we've heard the last of this plot thread though. My money is on this very schism being the reason why Anubis decides on an all out attack on Earth and the end result being that all parties realise they have a lot more to gain than to lose by reforming the alliance. Heh, I'm in denial.

Overall I thought this was a really good solid episode. We had all the nice big guns and explosions so plenty to keep those who love action occupied, plus we had the whole Carter and the supersoilder doing the whole Linda Hamilton/Terminator thing out there. The seemingly indestructable SS had Sam, the only one with the knowledge to build the weapon to stop them, in it's sights and it absolutely was not going to stop until she was dead.
My only complaint about this was that I felt that Carter's flight didn't come across quite as desperate as it should have. I got no sense of frustration from her that she was stuck, hurt and fighting for her life. One minute she was barely able to walk on that gammy looking leg and the next she's running along...amazing what a bit of adrenalin can do! I can't quite put my finger on why it felt off because AT's acting was superb (yet again), I think it was just the lack of vocalisation from her. She hardly uttered a whole sentence the entire episode.
Also, while everyone was clearly concerned about her I don't think this itself was quite enough to work up enough of the necessary tension. The only real "OMG! Carter's gonna die!" moment was when the SS was approaching the tree and we are supposed to think it's Carter but it's just another dead SG member.

Jacob/Selmak's conflicts played a central theme here. His realisation that he doesn't fit quite right with the Tok'ra, his concern for the alliance and his fears for Sam and the final emotional conflict he faces and the ramifications of his decision to stick with the Tok'ra despite their dwindling faith in him. Simply great stuff.

A couple of random thoughts:

Daniel seemed to fade into the woodwork for a while there. Apart from the one scene with Jacob (which seemed more to provide the dramatic flashback and to gear up the whole concern for Carter thing that's going on) he seemed mostly superflous in all his other scenes. Actually none of the regular SG1 actually had massive parts here. Sam probably had the biggest but actually said the least. It was more of a Jacob episode really, which is fine by me. Looks like there isn't going to be too many of them left this year.

Great to see Siler again and that missile equipped UAV. I wish they'd do a Siler centric episode. He deserves it.

How many super soldiers were sent to the site? I'm guessing it was more than one. The implication is that most of them were destroyed in the self destruct of the base but that one lone one that could not be stopped (and couldn't aim for toffee) chased our poor Sam through the wild silver birch trees of somewhere that looked a lot like Canada.

Almost no humour in this one at all. One tiny moment near the end when Jack asks Teal'c to check the soldier is really dead and that's it. Interesting the see that Jack (who drives a lot of the humourous scenes) didn't lighten up at all until Carter was safe and sound. Something for the more rabid shippers to project over no doubt!

Ok so how many times in one year can Carter get whumped? Who is writing these things this year? Do they have issues with women? Did Aesir write this episode?

Related to the previous comment, one thing I have noticed this season is that there is a distinct lack of Dr Fraiser where there normally should be. How many times has one of them ended up in the infirmary this year? It's been just about every episode. I realise that these eps are probably being shown in a different order to which they were initially filmed, but I get the feeling that they are being shown in a different order to which they were first intended to be shown too. Can't say why but the seasonal continuity seems a little off to me. For instance you'd think Sam might have mentioned to her dad that she's got a bloke in her life? Or is that it for Pete? One episode and she's back to knowing glances and furtive touches with Jack (hey, I'm not complaining!) Plus they seem to have lumped a lot of individual character centric episodes together which feels a little off.

Loved the gate being on it's side. It looked pretty damn cool like that and who cares what shape in the ground the kawoosh created. But where did that ladder come from? Hey at least this one featured an actual gate. All those who moaned about it being missing last week, please take note.

I thought the last scene on the planet with Jack giving a weary, hurt and shell shocked Carter a little hug was nicely done. I liked the pan out at the end of this scene where we see that Teal'c is turned away (deliberately maybe or just to guard the SS?) allowing Jack and Sam a little private hurt/comfort moment. I liked the fact that Jack is so clued in to Sam that he knew she needed a little bit of a hug too, even though Sam seems to be the sort of girl that doesn't really like to let her weaknessess show. Even if you're not a 'shipper it's a nice friendship moment and perfectly fitting. Of course if you're a shipper it's probably tantamount to a bloody proposal. Personally I'll take a happy medium. I couldn't see him giving Teal'c a hug like that but nothing much would surprise me these days.

Favourite quote: We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it.

I liked this ep. tho do think episodes have been a bit Carter focused lately, i understand RDA is busy but what bout Teal'c n Daniel?? Got a txt from my friend after the bit when Jack asks the guy is Carters there saying 'how many more time can they do the whole 'oh no one of them's lost now the other one will get upset' thing' but i thought it went quite well and those supser soldiers really scare me so was on the edge of my seat for half this one. I'm mad at the Tokra for pushing Jacob out, i think they should have an ep. more dedicated to Selmak n developing that character more, but looks like not gona see them for a while. While i'm annoyed about the alliance splitting i can see the points of the others so in all a good ep.

This was another great episode which furthers the story of Stargate. Instead of a non-sense episode that doesnt' do much in the storyline, this episode moves on.

The Alliance breaking up kinda sets us up for upcoming episodes I think. For a more dramatic ending IMO.

After watching this episode I can't wait to see the rest of season 7. I have a feeling that it's gonna be a cliff hanger at the end of season 7 tho =\

10/10

Interesting discussion
I think it was average episode (not bad , but not so good )
Really it's Sux now we have only Asgard?s as alliance and what about Anubis?
He got more power , more soldiers and prepare to attack the Earth :-(
I don?t think that Tokra and Jafa in position to declare independence in this difficult time.
The Tokra had not enough peoples to defend yourself , so they just want to be hidden!
And what?s about the Jafa, do they have a main leader or space ships or planetary defense?
Hm, just think about it. Only in alliance Earth was able to defeat the Anubis , now what they do?
But the most confusing thing was the Tokra opinion about humans technological knowledge. They don't trust us the using of more advanced technology.:-(
Isn?t it a bit too late, for such of thoughts, coz we have "some" experience?
Well, I have more questions, than answers, &=)
Hope in the next episodes , we get more interesting story line's as before.
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Hey can we get some Aschen?s ?
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Love this episode
the action and adventure was a good return to the old stargate and the relief of those rather....uninteresting (not saying there bad, just a little bland) last couple of episodes
By the way

SG teams 6? and 21 went to the Alpha site and helped those already there to put the stargate back up on its little pedistal or whatever holds it up.

dude seriously why is it only them? o well its kinda good, its "their" look
I like the ending with Carter, Jack, and Teal'c. Teal'c with the dead SS and Carter's head on Jack's shoulder, how nice

Overall, this episode is pretty good (excellent when compared to the rest of the seventh season so far).

I really, really liked the fact that the alliance has broken up. I mean, everything always seem to go just too well for the SGC; and they have been picking up so many wonderful alliances along the way. All along I really felt that a good storyline would be to have the Tok'ra break apart from their alliance with earth; and the fact that it has finally happened makes me feel really good about this episode. I, however, do not feel that the producers should have had the Jaffa break away in the same episode; rather, they should have made the storyline a little more "spontaneous" by having the Jaffa break away a few episodes later (this would allow the Tok'ra's loss to sink in first; and just when we feel that it can't get any worse: the Jaffa leave).

The only thing that I am concerned about with this episode is whether or not the Tok'ra will "stay gone". I mean, I was really moved when Daniel left the show; and I felt that it was a great story arc, but they went and brought him back. If, however, the producers actually had the Tok'ra disappear and not make a comeback until next season (or perhaps never) I would consider this episode that much more effective.

Also, I liked how we finally got to see some blood on Stargate. I remember back in the first season the producers weren't afraid to show a little blood here and there on the series. After about season three, however, almost all of the blood disappeared from the series (now the staff blasts were limited to little black marks); I felt that this was really dissapointing as I enjoy a little bit of realism in the series. Even in "Chimera"; when Pete got hurt by the exploding truck; there was hardly any blood at all. So it's really nice to finally see some in this episode.

So, with all of this said, I was quite impressed with how it turned out; I just hope that this new weapon against the SS doesn't make Anubis' unbeatable drones as easily killed as the Jaffa could be.

I like!

I don't think the hug was shippy, just something a good friend would do. I like how Teal'c stood guard over the corpse of the SS. I liked the scene where the SS was approaching the dead guy who looked like Sam from behind.

Did anyone almost think that the Tok'ra were evil? I almost thought they were gonna make the Tok'ra evil! With that scene between Delek and Selmak. The way they were talking, I almost thought they were gonna reveal that they are just a very insidious branch of Goa'uld. I dunno, maybe its just me, but I got that feeling, the "OMG they are gonna do an amazing twist that I didn't see coming!" but then it turned out that I was just wrong

Still, the breakup of the alliance and the fact that the source of the leak is still unknown will make for some interesting follow-ups.

But then again that was being a significant part of the fandom didn't quite like the move.

I wouldn't. The Tok'ra have become a part of Stargate, and to just say
"Well we cancelled the alliance, and your NEVER going to see us again. Ha!"
would be kind of lame

The contrary, I believe that Stargate doesn't go through enough extreme changes in the plot line. I know that the Tok'ra have been with us for so long; but this is just one of the examples where the show's status has been too stagnent. Stargate needs more linearity in its storylines; I mean, there has to be big things constantly going on that is always changing the course of the series (currently I could watch an episode in season seven and, if I didn't know better, I might just as well have thought that it was from season two; since everything is pretty much the same).

It's not that I didn't like the Tok'ra, and if the Stargate wrote the Tok'ra out of the series like "'Itchy and Scratchy" did Poochy (Simpsons ) I would probably be very angry. Rather, I think that it was very professionally done; as there was tonnes of foreshadowing about the Tok'ra leaving the alliance since the beginning of their conception.

We call them drones: Anubis calls them Kull Warriors.

Definitely the best ep I've seen since Grace...and now some...things.

The Jaffa had a legitimate concern about the status of their own people. They are just now beginning to understand the possibility of being a freed...and someday unified...race. When something like that happens, 'outsider' issues..ie the Tok'ra and the Tau'ri...are going to take a backseat. What the Jaffa do not understand, or maybe not appreciate, is that they would never have had the chance to be free before SG1 come through the gate on Chulak and got Teal'c to defect. The best they've been able to do up 'till then was have First Primes like Bra'tac try to prevent massacres in battle.

The Tok'ra have been fighting for so long that they've gotten conservative in their methods. I'm sure when they first started out they were probably like the Tau'ri, all gung-ho...but time has a way of dulling that edge, and now that there seems to be an end to more Tok'ra and Anubis going after them, you can bet their first instinct is going to be to take a defensive position and lie low. Again, they do not seem to care that the Tau'ri are the ones who have helped weaken the System Lords by being agressive in their tactics.

The "B" storyline was Carter's run from the drone while in posession of the new weapon. Being a "B" story, it was a combination of both the drone chase and O'Neill & Teal'c looking for her, so she wasn't going to be on screen as much.

BTW, that blood trail thing is a *cough* homage to the movie The Silence of the Lambs when Clarice and Buffalo Bill were at one house and the Feds were at another, but the editing made it seem like the Feds were about to break into Buffalo Bill's house.

About the Drones...I think they've gotten more menacing. Their appearance, capabilities, movement and just overall composition is getting much better. I could see why Anubis would only send a couple of these guys to do the job.

And now something for our members with good ears for music. Next time you watch the last Jack/Sam scene, listen carefully for a certain piece of music that's just horns and violins. Its the exact same cue that was used during the Jack/Sam talk in Grace when Jack said "I will always be there for you." Not a coincidence, folks.

This post has been edited by mithwriter: Jan 29th 2004, 12:31 AM

Definitely a "classic" Stargate episode -- had that old Stargate feel.

Glad you mentioned the number of drones (odd that they are using that term -- I immediately thought of the Borg). I kept wondering why there weren't more of them after seeing that army at Anubis' base. What if there had been a team of drones on Sam's trail? Doubtful there could have been a happy ending.

And that music DID sound familiar -- they have done this before with little musical themes, most notably the one they played when Daniel ascended. A very nice touch...very observant, Mith.

Speaking as a reformed shipper, I am just plain confused by that hug. Looked like it could be interpreted either way. But the complete lack of a mention of Pete made me feel like they could have just skipped the Chimera episode altogether. Keep the whole ship thing in undertones and get back to the real story.

I did have to wonder why Jacob couldn't use a healing device on Sam's face. She should have some major scars from that, shouldn't she?

Did any of the good guys hear 'kull warriors', or was it just us, the viewers?

I still can't. Do you think all of his thousands of warriors are busy all of the time? I would guess that he can't possibly use all of them, unless he sends big batches of them on missions. I think he should get his money's worth since the current warriors are all going to die soon.
However, for all we know he sent 10 of them and 9 were destroyed by the self destruct, although I doubt more than 3 or 4 came.

Hmm a name of the weapon aye? Well remember the weapons they used to reveal and shoot the Re'tu (sp?) well the new super weapon look almost like those, so what is the name of those weapons?

Well they are called TER...so the easiest thing to call them would be SSER or SER.

Super soldier eradication rods.

SSERs.....what do ya think people?

I do like the name. It kind of has a good ring to it.

Favorite part of the episode had to be the loving hug at the end between Jack and Sam. For all of the leghumping fans out there this is not one of your moments. That hug showed the great amount of love that Jack has for Sam. I saw the hug as more of a big brother little sister thing. Jack noticed that Sam was just plain worn out and needed rest, she was also mentally drained from the chase that she gave the SS. She basically needed a shoulder and he was there for her. That is a good friend.

I also enjoyed Teal'c over the SS in the same scene, eventhough I wanted him to take a few pot-shots at the damn thing. That would have been funny as hell.

We may be better off without the Tok'ra and the Jaffa. I say this because it seems that we spend almost as much time putting fires out between the two races as we spend vanquishing the enemy from the galaxy beside the two races. Besides about the only Jaffa that does anything worth a damn is Bratak (where was he this Ep.? filming Dragon Storm for SciFi?), and the only Tok'ra that seems to help us kill the bad guys is Selmak. True we could use the Tok'ra tech., but they don't want to give it to us. So I say let them go, they will both come back to us with their tails between their legs begging for us to take them back.

Speaking (I suspect) on behalf of all the not-so-rabid shippers out there I think you'll find that actual leg humping is the last thing I want to see anyone do. Eeew!
No way is it brotherly love though. I'd be shocked if my brother wanted to stick his tongue in my mouth (see Window Of Oportunity for evidence to support the fact that this is what Jack would really like to do). I'd agree though, that in this instance the supposed "shippy" scene was more about friendship than that tounge sticking thing they might otherwise want to engage in if it weren't for those pesky regs.


SSERs has a nice ring to it. I wonder whether we'll actually see them in use again.

Well, the drones never struck me as being out for fun or leisure to be honest. They go in, do what they were told to do somewhat ruthlessly and efficiently and then go home, as far as we've been led to believe from other episodes. So, no, can't say this scenario really flies for me.

The UAV had to be a lucky shot or that gun was on automatic at the time. <bg>

He missed Sam, as someone else pointed out, when she was a perfect target and later missed Teal'c - despite the fact that Teal'c somehow managed to run straight into the line of fire on his way to the bushes.

I agree about the hug not being brotherly. And I suspect it's slightly more than 'just good friends and compadres' too. I somehow can't see Jack offering Daniel or Teal'c a comfort hug if they'd been run to ground by a drone and were exhausted! (The mind boggles at the image of Jack and Teal'c that one conjures up). I do think it was a 'if you need me, I'm here' moments. Definitely a comfort hug rather than anything sexual. Very sweet whatever it was, anyway.

Albion