All I am saying is that they have the capacity to be really great. It's a good nitpick because we have seen both extremes. Although, considering their short lifespan, they must receive rather hasty training.

As for the leisure thing, they have pretty rotten lives. They were made to kill people, and they don't have much time to live. As soon as he is done, he has to go back. He may have wanted to savor the chase, make his life more interesting.

Never mind, there is no defending it.

yer i really liked this one shame about the tok'ra & jaffa leaving i hope we get to see jacob again, but i surpose it could have been worst teal,c could have left with the jaffa, i expected bra'tac to be in this one. carter was quite resourceful with the U.A.V missile, i really wanted to see who the spy was that imformed anubis of the site, hey BTW how powerful would the drones be if tey ha a personal shield.

resourceful: yes
lucky: yes

the stupid warrior walked right into the one place he could be shot at with a stationary weapon!

Would've been cool if she could've adapted it as a pseudo-shoulder mounted weapon, braced herself against the rock pile, lined him up in her sight and let it rip. After all, he'd been taking pot shots at her the whole time, right? Fair play to the Major, I say...

yer i surpose but the drone probably didn't know what carter was doing he didn't know that it was a weapon, BTW what the hell are we surposed to call these dudes anyway now kull warriors, super soldiers or drones... maybe we should just do a oneil & call them anubis' goons.

As in greek (? I think it is greek) Alpha comes first, and Beta comes next. So the Alpha site would be the number 1 backup site and the Beta site is the number 2 backup site. So the Alpha site in Death Knell was the original Beta site and the Beta site in Death Knell will become the new Alpha site.

My overall for this episode is 3/10
... ok the action was bad . how can she jumb all the shots . he should work on his aiming

This post has been edited by Bonzai: Jan 30th 2004, 6:45 AM

A personal shield like the Goa'uld Personal Defense shield? Quite honestly, I don't think that it would make much difference as they are obviously already able to withstand huge amounts of energy directed at them. Personal shields are going to have a limit on their defensive capabilities anyway and you are assuming that it would be better than their armour. The only advantage that I can think of is that it might stop the shots from that new weapon they have made, but we won't know for sure.

This post has been edited by Aesir: Jan 30th 2004, 8:22 AM

Just thought of something else I'd like to bring up.

I really, really,really enjoyed not only how much Jacob was in this episode, but also seeing his predicament at being caught in the middle of two loyalties. Its curious that even though Selmac obviously has seniority over his host age-wise, he is happy to just hang around and let Jacob do the talking when they're at the SGC, and only surfaces when he is needed specifically for his knowledge or to make a point.

I can't help but wonder if he does the same thing when he's around the other Tok'ra, which might be one of the reasons the rest of the Ruling Council has been on the border of ostracizing him from knowing everything when they deal with the Tau'ri. The other Tok'ra that was with Jacob at the SGC had a great line when Jacob asked him "Who do you think you're talking to?"

Other Tok'ra: "That's a good question."

The other thing that struck me was when Jacob mentioned to Sam that he was 'not ready to give up yet' , which made me wonder if Jacob could actually walk into a council meeting and say "Hey, I'm going back to Earth. Find Selmac a host and he's all yours. I'm outta here." The Tok'ra have always said one of the distinctions between them and the Goa'uld was they don't take hosts against their will, so does that mean they would get Selmac out and let Jacob walk away if so desired?

This post has been edited by mithwriter: Jan 30th 2004, 5:53 PM

Okay... Jacob/Selmac is the Tok'ra liaison to the SGC, so it would make sense that Jacob would have control in their dealings with them as they are likely to respond better to a human voice/mind and also because Jacob probably cares more and wants control.

According to what we have been told of their ways and ethics it would seem so, although the separation of a symbiote from a host is not an easy thing to achieve as there is great risk to both the symbiote and the host, even if they are both willing to be separated.

Was it just me, or did the music and sound effects when the SS was firing on Carter at the river, seem the same as from the start of 711 when the SS is firing on Teal'c and Bra'tac at the start of the episode?

I didn't notice, but that would make perfect sense. They commonly use the same music for similar scenes/themes in episodes and since the super soldier was using the same weapon in both cases, the sound effects would be the same too.... isn't this to be expected?

Perhaps my posting was a little arrogant, I should have pointed out that it's only my opinion. I guess I was just angry because - as you say - everyone claims the Alliance is over as if it was clearly said in the episode. You referred to the final scene, but in this scene Jacob says "The Alliance is in trouble." And you claim this scene is evidence that it's over? I don't see it. In my opinion the reason why Jacob won?t visit earth again soon is because the Tok'ra don't trust him any more and he doesn't want to raise suspicions. He even admitted that he would have told General Hammond about their operative although the others decided to keep it a secret.

is it me or was that tok'ra in allegiance called malek & the tok'ra in death knell called delek are they related or are they running out of names 4 tok'ra.

DO THE DRONES REMIND ANYONE ELSE OF DARTH VADER ? i would have thought they could have come up with a more original costume for them

This post has been edited by gate_lemming: Feb 3rd 2004, 3:45 PM

Not unless Vader chucked the cloak lately and started wearing NFL-type padding on his chest and shoulders. I think they look fine. They've got some armor action going, but not enough to go overboard into Stormtooper territory. I also like the headgear because there's no humanity to it. Has a nice, creepy, what-the-hell-is-under-that kinda feel.

Another excellent episode for Stargate's greatest hits collection. At last, a weapon that we can use to kill supersoldiers. Then it was too bad that the 3 race alliance has fell apart. At least we still have Selmak and Teal'c on our side.

The Tok'ra loss isn't that bad, since they were never really that good of allies and did numerous things that were kinda dumb and not the best option.

The jaffa's departure was kinda expected, since they don't really like being ordered around. The Tauri can still do join operations with both races, covertly of course. But when we get all the ancient goodies, it won't really matter, haha.

Why are we arguing about if the alliance is over???? I think it was pretty obvious that the Tokr'a don't want to share information with us anymore and that the Jaffa feel the need to establish their own colonies. The only reason that Jacob said the aliiance is in trouble was to not complicate things for Sam who had just woken up.

Anyway, I really liked the episode. I definitly think the SS have improved. The Jack/Sam hug at the end was more than comforting a friend. What about Pete?? Not that I like him, but he wasn't even mentioned. I'm going to miss Jacob/Selmak.

I'll try to keep it short most of what I think has already been said.

The Good:

- Things blew up, we were off world, danger, excitement, ect.
- old school StarGate is good
- Lots of Jacob - I really like the actor and the character, also I totally agree with this:

I also disagree with this

I think that Selmak is really comfortable with letting Jacob do the talking. And though I hate to admit it, I do think that Jacob has had more of an affect on him than previous hosts, but ya can't blame him, who doesn't like Jacob?

- Quote "We'll jump off that bridge when we come to it." a cute play on words as well as a reference to Bra'tak's favorite Earth cleche (sp?).
- good to see more of Jack
- (Don't hate me for this one) this is a personal opinion, but I have to admit, I think Delek is a cutie (a cutie with an attitude and some poor decision making skills, but a cuttie none the less).

The Bad:

- the whole thing (though I liked it) was a little stiff, perhaps I've been brainwashed by the last few epps but I actually wanted a little (a little) more emmotion.
- have to agree here:

Yeah, could we focas on the rest of the team a bit more, pretty please?
- don't like watching the alliences split, but I never liked change much anyway. We'll just have to see what they do with it


The Ugly:

Gosh after last week's bedroom scene, I can't think of anything!

Yeah, that wasn't exactly short, but I tried to keep the ranting down

One other comment,

I though along a similar line, but I had to wonder - Would Selmac through in the towel and go back to Earth with Jacob and help out? Hmmm.....

Oh, and I vote for SSER on the new weapon.

And that's it from me campers.

No offense to any of you guys, but why is anyone mad about the alliance breaking up. The To'kra never saw us as equals, the amount of trouble one had to go through to get their mission reports were insane, and they would call on us when they are in trouble. Truthfully, the only true alliance we've seen so far is that of the Asgard; and even that is limited to some point.

Is the alliance going to get back, obviously; both the To'kra and the Jaffa are too narrowminded to see the bigger picture. It is quite simple from To'kra "We've lost more operatives in the past 7 years then the previos 100" and the Jaffa "We need to know what really is independence." That is blatant stupidity, however they argue it, whether it is losing soldiers or wanting freedom, neither is going to be relevant if EVERYONE is killed.

The point of the episode i guess is a setup for the rest of the season and that is humanity will be facing everything alone. Humanity has to defeat Anubis, not the To'kra and no the Jaffa. Can the values of humanity defeat evil alone or do we truly need outside intervention. I guess we will find out

My only question is this, would Bra'tac of been more understanding as the Jaffa leader then the tall, muscular, moronic one we saw in this episode. It seemed that both Bra'tac and Selmak share a common understanding that goes beyond "We have to save our own or we must have freedom". Just a thought.

My thoughts...one poster mentioned that the same music at the end was the same music used in Grace. I'm a bit disappointed I missed that, since as I saw it I was flashing back to 'Jack's' "I'm a safe bet" line in 'Grace'.

Another thing...I liked Daniel's outburst at the end, and that he was working on the negotiations with the Tok'Ra. It was some good character development there, I cannot see the old Daniel acting like he did. (If it isn't that obvious, it was at lest slightly geeky...there was a difference, but it's hard to explain.)

Also good was the SS's appearance. But what was very bad was its aim...it hit the UAV, but not a stationary Carter? Come on. That would have been a great moment to add in some suspense, with the SS creeping up on Carter. Would she hear it in time?

Another bad thing was the final battle with the SS in the end. If it *knew* that Carter possessed the design to the SSER, it should've continued attacking her. It had to know it was pretty much invulnerable except to that weapon. Again, you have a great moment that suspense could be added in; would Jack get there in time to save her? And where the hell was he? It makes no tactical sense for Teal'c to pop out, fire at the SS, then Jack pops out 15 seconds later and twice as far away.

One interesting thing was the conversation with Delek. The way he was talking, I half expected him to turn out to be a Goa'uld. ("You know what sucks? The Tau'ri aren't slaves and have stronger wills." -Paraphrasing the conversation)

More bad things, no Sarah or Pete. It would've been nice to at least have some passing reference or maybe an appearance by either. Sarah would've definitely been someone to ask about the security leak. What I would like to know is why in 'Chimera', Sam was working on a device to neutralize Goa'uld ring transporters and the like...but then in 'Death Knell' she had been working on the SSER for a month. Neutralizing typical Goa'uld tech is all fine and good, but I haven't heard of a ring transporter going rogue, slaughtering Jaffa and offing system lords.

Final opinion: The episode idea was pretty good, but it could've been tweaked to be much better;7/10.

To'kra and the Jaffa should go their own ways. Except for Jacob in the To'kra who else is there to trust. The Jaffa are structurally unsound, and if anybody who might be in command would be thought to be as bad as a Goa'uld.

I agree that there were tactical/logistical loopholes in that final sequence. the biggest problem was placing Carter at the dirt hill where the SS was buried. She's hurt, exhausted, has no weapon with which to defend herself and can't be sure if the SS is dead.... so she sits down right next to it? Now they've got to run a diversion (Teal'c) and get her back to the original rock pile? It would've been better if they had done the following:

-Carter shoots rocket, rocket goes boom. SS does not, but buried.
-O'Neill, Teal'c run for site.
-Carter comes out from rock pile, sits on rocks to observe dirt pile and SS from a safe distance, and struggles to stay awake, exhausted.
-SS begins emerging from dirt hill. Carter doesn't see it.
-Teal'c and O'Neill see open area, SS, and Carter. O'Neill yells warning at Carter as SS takes aim at her.
-Teal'c opens fire on SS, O'Neill flanks around to Carter's position, SS fires at Teal'c. Teal'c forced to take cover, possibly hit from SS arm weapon.
- O'Neill and Carter take refuge behind rocks as SS opens fire on their position.
- O'Neill shoots, then installs new power unit from Carter. SS falls after 2 shots.
- Teal'c emerges from woods a little worse for wear but okay. O'Neill tosses him modified weapon to guard SS.

It's just a suggestion.

I really liked the episode. Daniel is right, without the Jaffa and Tok'ra, the whole thing is gonna fail. They have a weapon to kill the drones, so get up, join together and do something about it! They should get their own bases. I was cool, when Carter set up that UCVA to stop that drone. "A lot of Kinetic energy can kill a drone." Physics!!! Kinetic Energy = (1/2) x mass x velocity ^2!!!!