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Stargate Information Archive _ Atlantis Season 3 _ 305 - Progeny
Posted by: Arcady Aug 8th 2006, 12:39 AM
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 11th 2006, 10:01 PM
WTF?? Rodney just strolls to the database and searches for Asurans, but he can't search for power or engery source....? Is it because it was Sheppard's imagination?
I think the Atlantis story just took a major leap forward. I am very excited about what is going to come next.
That guy reminds me of fifth.
Mckay and Sheppard going back and forth about time was hilarious.
It is still very funny that they always look or McKay to get stuff done, but I fear that it will soon become a cliche.
McKay: "Ronan, I could use..." (Ronan pushes the guy over).
I hope they call earth and get some of those replicator killing guns.
Posted by: Janos Aug 11th 2006, 10:01 PM
That was a pretty wussy explosion for 3 freakin' ZPM's.
I was hoping to see the dude ascend... I don't know where they're going with these Replicators, but I think they should've stuck with just one enemy on the show.
Overall, most of the episode was good. It felt a little rushed at the end though.
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 11th 2006, 10:08 PM
fu**ing Amazing Episode! Best one yet, the parts where that guy showed Wier their history and stuff reminded me of Carter's experience with Fifth when they first met, it was cool. Can't believe they blew up a city, at least we got to see how cool it looks when flying, overall they got lucky that one of the Asurans was symphathic towards them, at first in the Jumper when he's like "Somethings happening" I thought he was about to ascend since he was good but no, the reprogramming thing took me by surprise, this is a lot better than the Wraith, at least we know now that it really is the replicators or super replicators since they are apparently more advanced, great episode!!!!
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 11th 2006, 10:12 PM
I had hoped that the guys stuck around just long enough to tell them where the ZPM storage room or creation lab was. At least they got a new jumper out of the whole deal.
Did those Ancient ships look like the Orion/Aurora class ships? It took a huge number of them to destroy that civilization, and I just realized that they weren't using drones.
Again I wonder why they haven't found he "Lantean" handguns. I remember someone saying in a thread a little while ago that it would be "Atlantean" and not "Lantean", but I thought I heard the replicator use the word Lantean.
EDIT:Gate jumper which replicators are you saying are more advanced, and why?
Posted by: Linz Aug 11th 2006, 10:16 PM
That was slightly lame in my opinion. Felt like the SG-1 season six episodes with the replicator people... I miss the replicator bugs.
A few good laughs but mostly it was a repeated story line in my opinion.
Posted by: Annunaki Aug 11th 2006, 10:18 PM
Didn't Carter say that she thought that just one of those things could destroy a whole universe?
I think it was a excellent episode and have no problem with the show's creators "dusting off" an old idea...It is just good that they made them worse then the original replicators.
Posted by: Aquila Aug 11th 2006, 10:19 PM
Good question on the handguns. 
It looks like this episode is a favorite this year, from the ratings I've seen it's been thumbs up all the way, a very good episode and intro to the new/old enemy for SG-A's Third Season. I'm hoping that this time around however, Niam or at least the sympathizing bunch would be spared and be able to somehow Ascend, afterall, it wasn't his fault being reprogrammed. 
It's going to be even harder disposing of the rest having little Ancient 'power' of their own and on the other hand the enemy having plenty to toss about.
Loved the episode!
Posted by: Reignfire Aug 11th 2006, 10:20 PM
I agree, this episode did feel a bit 'Unnatural Selection' / Fifth-ish. The city looks awesome when flying and that 3 ZPM explosion should have filled up the sky.
And why didn't Shepard shoot a drone at the guy after he went out the airlock???
[EDIT]
From: http://www.imsdb.com/transcripts/Stargate-SG1-Zero-Hour.html
Carter: "Uh, sir, quickly, I wanted to talk to you about something else. I was reading Doctor Lee’s report about the tainted ZPM. I think he may have underestimated the explosive potential. It could have actually destroyed the entire solar system."
Of course that's a booby-trapped one, I don't know if they ever said what a regular one would do.[/EDIT]
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 11th 2006, 10:25 PM
Mckay said in this episode that these Asuran replicators were more advanced b/c their nanites or whatever were way more complex than the human formed replicators, that they were more organic than the ones sg-1 encountered. Teyla asked about the weapon Oniell made about it beating the replicators and Mckay said it wouldnt work on them since they were more complex or whatever I dont remeber exactly what he said?
Posted by: J&S4Ever Aug 11th 2006, 10:38 PM
Excellent episode! 
Finally we get to see a flying city!
Replicators in search of Ascension feels like Anubis all over again. I agree with JTMAG that this new replicator saga feels a little to Fifth-like. Didn't they learn that betrayal was what got Carter in trouble? And HELLO, replicators are not human, no matter how much organic material they have assimilated (Borgish?). Sheppard should have turned that puddle jumper around and shot a mushroom thingy up its butt.
So how did the our galaxy's replicators get created?
I supposed the Pegasus Replicators know how to create ZPMs, so if Rodney could access their computer and create a glitch into their update program, why couldn't he find the ZPM plans???
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 11th 2006, 10:39 PM
Mckay said in this episode that these Asuran replicators were more advanced b/c their nanites or whatever were way more complex than the human formed replicators, that they were more organic than the ones sg-1 encountered. Teyla asked about the weapon Oniell made about it beating the replicators and Mckay said it wouldnt work on them since they were more complex or whatever I dont remeber exactly what he said?
Teyla asked about him defeating the nanite virus from season 1. He mentioned that he used the EMP generator to defeat them, but these we far more complex and that an EMP wasn't going to do the job. He wasn't comparing them to the other replicators. The only thing I can say about these replicators is that they had the advantage of knowing about ancient tech, where as the Replicators in the Milky way did not.
If they did that, then how are they going to revisit him being there?
Posted by: Arteon- Aug 11th 2006, 10:41 PM
Best episode yet of season 3. Knew something was up, but it only dawned on me that they were dealing with Replicators when they pulled their hands out of everyone's skulls. Maybe I'm an idiot, I dunno.
Lots of funny bits, seeing Sheppard stay behind was sad for a moment. And Atlantis was actually better than SG-1 tonight. Wow.
Posted by: Janos Aug 11th 2006, 10:44 PM
A few good laughs but mostly it was a repeated story line in my opinion.
That's it! That's it exactly! I knew it felt a little off. I was expecting more, but it was the same old Replicator story.
Posted by: Airkat Aug 11th 2006, 10:45 PM
I actually thought the episode was pretty weak. Once again they rehash an old SG1 plot. Once again they survive just by luck (the sympathetic 3)
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 11th 2006, 10:45 PM
Best episode yet of season 3. Knew something was up, but it only dawned on me that they were dealing with Replicators when they pulled their hands out of everyone's skulls. Maybe I'm an idiot, I dunno.
Lots of funny bits, seeing Sheppard stay behind was sad for a moment. And Atlantis was actually better than SG-1 tonight. Wow.
For two weeks in a row, but SG1 ep 200 will be great no doubt.
Posted by: J&S4Ever Aug 11th 2006, 10:48 PM
Knew something was up, but it only dawned on me that they were dealing with Replicators when they pulled their hands out of everyone's skulls. Maybe I'm an idiot, I dunno.
Nope, I was taken by surprise too. I thought it was going to be another Genii plot.
Annoying things about this episode:
Sheppard and Mckay arguing about exact times.
Everybody looking at McKay expecting and answer and him saying " Oh, that's me right...Why don't I just go on these missions by myself?"
Unexpected:
He actually sounded concerened and normal when he tried to stop Weir from merging with Replicator Dude. What was his name anyway? Nee'am?? Niam?
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 11th 2006, 10:55 PM
Regardless it being a rehashed replicator story, seeing that metropolis city surrounding their version of Atlantis was just incredible, just wow!!!
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 11th 2006, 11:07 PM
Everybody looking at McKay expecting and answer and him saying " Oh, that's me right...Why don't I just go on these missions by myself?"
I thought those things were very funny. Like I said earlier, it is going to become cliche (and you know how I feel about those). but for now its still very funny to me.
I am just realizing this very moment they they don't wear their velcro labels on their unis. Is that the norm? I'm 100% sure they wear them on SG1
Posted by: J&S4Ever Aug 11th 2006, 11:10 PM
I thought those things were very funny. Like I said earlier, it is going to become cliche (and you know how I feel about those). but for now its still very funny to me.
I am just realizing this very moment they they don't wear their velcro labels on their unis. Is that the norm? I'm 100% sure they wear them on SG1
I just really hate McKay, so anything like that really annoys me.
I think they don't want to give away where they're from. If they come across someone who's heard of them they might be able to figure out who they are from the symbols on their labels.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 11th 2006, 11:13 PM
I just really hate McKay, so anything like that really annoys me.
I think they don't want to give away where they're from. If they come across someone who's heard of them they might be able to figure out who they are from the symbols on their labels.
Thats a good point, but in SG1 they wore the Tauri symbol, and it was definitly bad to people to know they were from earth.
McKay is upset when the leader tells him that he could not understand the plan. He said, "how many PHDs does he have...?"
Back to the uniforms, they also seem to have new vests which appear less combatish to me.
AND WHAT HAPPENED TO SHEPPARD'S COOL LEATHER JACKET?
Posted by: Arteon- Aug 11th 2006, 11:32 PM
WHAT HAPPENED TO SHEPPARD'S COOL LEATHER JACKET?
I stole it. No one knows where Arteon- will strike!
Posted by: Revan Aug 12th 2006, 12:54 AM
We got to see more Lantean war ships.
We got to see the flying city-ship.
We got to see a darker side of the Lanteans.
I thought this was a very good episode. I really liked the eerie music at the end when Niam was floating in space. This episode has set us up for future episodes. They could go quite a few ways with this arc... I wonder where they will take it. I felt really bad for everybody that got blown up...
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 12th 2006, 1:27 AM
That was slightly lame in my opinion. Felt like the SG-1 season six episodes with the replicator people... I miss the replicator bugs.
A few good laughs but mostly it was a repeated story line in my opinion.
All it did was remind me of the 5th storline on SG1. Even to the point of the team betraying him. Yes they took Niam, but pushed him out in space.
Well they didn't destroy everything because at the end Weir and Shep were talking about them rebuilding another city. I will say this making the city fly was awesome.
Reese said that she was created in her father's image (SG1). So I'm assuming that her father was an Ancient. All replicators came from Reese in the MW.
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 12th 2006, 1:56 AM
Reese said that she was created in her father's image (SG1). So I'm assuming that her father was an Ancient. All replicators came from Reese in the MW.
He might have been one of the original creators of the Asurans, and he was trying to create a better version, not better like more advanced but simpler and more controlable, maybe in the hopes of defeating the Wraith?
Posted by: OneLoneFan Aug 12th 2006, 2:04 AM
I felt that this was an excellent episode.....I do see the potenial for one furture storyline, a repeat of history if you will.....could the Assurian<sp?> race divide and go into civil war.....much the same way the Ancient's and Ori did?? There is so many ways they could take this....i hope the writers don't screw it up!
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 12th 2006, 2:08 AM
It would just kind of suck if they did the same thing with Atlantis as they did with Sg-1, where the replicators took out a lot of the Goa'uld and then Sg-1 beat the replicators at the last minute, It be a way to beat all the Wraith but then it'd be too much the same as Sg-1 and it'd be boring.
Posted by: cidesplague Aug 12th 2006, 2:33 AM
heres an idea wat if they went the way of the borg(like) and started merging with wrath ( dont have a reason y jsut thought it would be interesting) i thought aobut htis befor i read the thing aobut weir trying to merge with the guy. tell me wat yall think
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 12th 2006, 2:41 AM
They replicate, not assimilate! 
Posted by: Ziu Aug 12th 2006, 5:34 AM
That was slightly lame in my opinion. Felt like the SG-1 season six episodes with the replicator people... I miss the replicator bugs.
A few good laughs but mostly it was a repeated story line in my opinion.
Yes, this was another re-hash of SG-1. As I have pointed out on several occasions, most strories are re-hashes of SG-1. I guess the writers think we are too stupid to notice.
If anybody has ever seen the movie 'The Thrill of it all', with James Garner and Doris Day, you know exactly what I am talking about, the scene in the movie "the public will never notice".
Posted by: DrM007 Aug 12th 2006, 6:59 AM
When I saw those hive ships pounding Atlantis, I was like: "B-b-but it's not even the end of the season..." I felt releaved when I realised that it was just replicators, but than I was like "oh, nooooo"
This really was recycle of SG-1 story. But let's be fair - how many stories without any resemblance to previous eisodes can writers create? Altogether sg1 and sga have more than 200 episodes...
i liked:
- the flying city (but what's up with the shield)
- the extended antient city
- rodney and john's time debate
i didn't like:
- still nothing on Teyla's character, come on people, give us SOMETHING...
- the effect that the flying city had when it took off - what was that about, was it like water? then half of remaining city would be under water after each lift off - impractical from my POV.
- why can't rodney take a vacation or get ill or something, so we can see Zelenka in "action". I understand that lots of their problems can be solved technologicaly, but does it allways have to be rodney? Little diversity wouldn't kill anybody. Or does David Hewlett have special contract for being the only smart guy in Atlantis...
Overall nice ep with new old enemy.
Posted by: deadulus101 Aug 12th 2006, 7:31 AM
All I have to say is wow That was probably one of the greatest episodes yet in Atlantis. We finally got to see the city fly and man was it cool and we saw an ancient battle scence which was also cool and the huge ancient city filled with many atlantis looking buildings. But of course a dumb reason why they don't get a zpm. But there were a few things that didn't add up though. In critical mass 1 zpm could have destroyed the whole planet(at least I thought so) and in this one they had to use all 3 to destroy a city and couldn't even take one of them. And another thing I'm assuming that the ancient were getting there butts kicked by the wraith when they made the nanites but when the project went too far they obliderated them (or at least they thought) with lots of Auroa/Orion ships. Wouldn't it have been better to let the nanites go on there merry way and keep those ships and let the nanites kill the wraith. That was the only part that didn't add up. They aggresivly destroyed the replicators which would have cost the ancients many lives cuz the replicators had ancient knowledge but wouldn't go all out for the wraith? That just didn't seem very "ancienty" to me. And why wouldn't they reprogram their code instead of just destroying them. They were living breathing life forms no matter how you see it. I don't think the ancients had the right to just destroy them. Now this is kinda like Battlestar Galactica with the creation out to kill the creators. But overall it was a good episode.
sorry if this is kina long its just that these things have been bugging me.
Posted by: ancient01 Aug 12th 2006, 8:40 AM
I had the same thought as others when the city exploding had no effect on the planet. It was in orbit, but 3 zpm's only blew up the city they were powering? Something doesn't add up. Maybe it had something to do with the shields being up at the time?? Anyhow, I must say I like the potential in this storyline. It did feel like they cut out chunks of the story to fit it into 1 hour. Some things were just too convenient, but another real enemy is just what this series needs.
Posted by: Lagger Aug 12th 2006, 9:10 AM
the asurians havent seen earth resourcefulness, sort of naive in a way....
but now they have next time they come they wont be soo stupid, or trusting..
3 zpm's hardly did anything.. and he needed all 3...!!!
maybe he only used the zpm's to overload something else??
Posted by: touchtone Aug 12th 2006, 12:17 PM
While i loved seeing the city that was a copy of atlantis, I did not like the fact that they've intoduced more replicators, It's already been seen & done in season 6. I hope they can destroy or just forget about this enemy for awhile and move on to better things
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 12th 2006, 12:32 PM
They wont be able to just forget about them if they stay evil, I mean Niam said there were millions of them, back in Sg-1 there was maybe five human formed replicators running around at the most, and now these replicators have the probably unlimited power and resources of the ancient technology, way bigger threat than the Wraith.
Posted by: Lisa Aug 12th 2006, 12:32 PM
Okay....YAY it was a good episode.
I loved watching Atlantis explode. But then I was like "Wait...if there's no Atlantis or Sheppard....why would there still be a Stargate Atlantis..."
ANYWAY.
I'm a bit sad though.
I'll tell you why.
This episode was a kind of rip-off of SG-1 and the replicators. Boo.
And next week looks like a rip-off of season 3's Legacy where Daniel went insane.
C'mon writers...................THINK OF SOMETHING!
Posted by: That Chevron Guy Aug 12th 2006, 12:36 PM
Is it just me or could the team have stole the 3 ZPM's at the end of the ep and the Replicator city-ship would have been totally without power and defenseless!? Shoot a few drones at it and BOOM!
Anyway, even for a revisited plot, I thought that this ep was fantastic! We got to see a Lantean city-ship fly and see some super cool warships......
I thought the whole scene where the Wraith found and bombarded Atlantis was cool too.....Sad to see Sheppard stay behind.
Two thumbs up for me!
Posted by: Aazadan Aug 12th 2006, 12:41 PM
Maybe they had explosion supression technology that was on a different power source (maybe a battery backup or something?), even with as powerful as ZPM's are, I wouldn't expect them to keep them as the only power source in the city, if there were a problem in that room or something (sabotage or whatever) it would leave them entirely defenseless then.
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 12th 2006, 12:41 PM
Taking all 3 zpms and powering up Atlantis to full power was not the plan, duh?
It'd take the whole plot out of the show, trying to find zpm's. They already have the technology so they dont need to look for it, just the batterys.
Posted by: Sighfienerd Aug 12th 2006, 12:43 PM
I didn't mind the Replicator storyline. Actually, I didn't see that one coming.
I found them interesting because they seemed to blend Ancient, human, and machine within one entity. The interest that some of them had in Ascension shows that there will ultimately be a moral dilemma concerning their destruction. I don't think it's fair to say that they are strictly machines anymore.
Posted by: jacksworld Aug 12th 2006, 1:01 PM
I really liked this episode alot and really liked the view of atlantis getting blown away, and seeing the city of asura. The only thing that keeps bugging me is the enemy itself. I mean of all things why did they have to bring back the replicators? I know this version of them is different than from sg-1 but in all its still the same only with ancient technology. I would have liked to see brand new enemies, but in overall the episode was pretty good.
Posted by: ZeroPoint Aug 12th 2006, 1:09 PM
Someone elaborate this for me......
1. Isn't the puddle jumper technically a replicator device? Wouldn't it have some traces of replicator technology in it, or were the replicators (not going to /couldn't) improve the puddle jumper?
2. Why was the person in space completely ignored?
3. If replicators hate alterrans so much, why emulate them?
Posted by: Aazadan Aug 12th 2006, 1:17 PM
Taking all 3 zpms and powering up Atlantis to full power was not the plan, duh?
It'd take the whole plot out of the show, trying to find zpm's. They already have the technology so they dont need to look for it, just the batterys.
This is something I didn't even think of. Rather than overload the systems and make the city blow up they could have just taken all the power sources, told atlantis to raise the shield and then just taken care of the city with squids.
Posted by: Bignes Aug 12th 2006, 1:46 PM
I loved this episode!
And i hope they build them up, hopefully playing on the sometimes ally sometimes enemy storyline.
It also adds a nice little twist with theres planet with millions of people.
Imagine if the Ori could replicate there followers???
And if they have evolved how about a wraith Virus esque weapon to make them edible and send the hive ships at them!
Who knows!
Last thought, is Ford going to make a return, or is he gone for good??
Posted by: HAI KON Aug 12th 2006, 2:28 PM
funny part;
Niam:Your minds are no longer being probed.
Shepard: Good to know it was just are minds. 
McKay: Oh, please don't make me sick.
The city structure was incredible!!!!!!
Posted by: dr lee Aug 12th 2006, 3:09 PM
Has anyone thought that maybe the reason why the explosion was so small was because the 'ZPM'S' weren't normal ZPM's?
These are replicators, yes a different version, but still they are replicators. If they are linked to SG-1s replicators then they have the ability to power themselves and wouldn't they be able to create anything they wanted if the blocks are nanite sized?
If so then whats the guessing that the Cityship was made out of these blocks and wasn't powered by ZPM, Which were just for show anyway and didn't do sh*t?
Posted by: Annunaki Aug 12th 2006, 3:22 PM
That actually makes perfect sense...The Ancients destroyed the entire city and they very well could have took all of the ZPM's before they destroyed the city. The reps created everything in their city, including them, in their creators likeness so it would just make sense that they created their power supply to look like their creators power supply.
Nice thinking buddy..
Posted by: Ancient Kane Aug 12th 2006, 4:08 PM
Regardless it being a rehashed replicator story, seeing that metropolis city surrounding their version of Atlantis was just incredible, just wow!!!
I agree about the that! the episode no matter what you say about it, did have some amazing sights. The army of orion class ships destroying an atlantis base city with weir just watching. VERY COOL! I didnt expect to see that kind of stuff till much later on. Good episode shame about the whole betray the naive replicator (havent seen that before).
The ancients (ascended ones) should definatly do something about this!!!!
Posted by: nerd101 Aug 12th 2006, 4:14 PM
ok Asurans have no ships? they have to wait till they build a new city to attack atlantis?.
I somehow feel that they packed too much into this episode and once again referring SG-1 story arch which
is bad for new comers to this show!!.
Why do we have to make blast out of 3 ZPMs 1 would be more than enough!!. We could easily use 2 right?.
After watching this episode I was like WHAT!!, a sudden turn to Atlantis!!. Too much in a single episode.
Has anyone thought that maybe the reason why the explosion was so small was because the 'ZPM'S' weren't normal ZPM's?
The reference to ZPM that could blow out the whole solar system which is made in SG1 was laced with some explosive material to amplify the blast. While these are clean ZPMs.
Posted by: kingpet Aug 12th 2006, 5:14 PM
I feel that this eps. was a bit flawed. If these replicators built their city like the other replicators did, then the ENTIRE city and everything in it wouldve been under their control.
which meant that the "pause" button would stopped everything, even the control room and the puddle jumpers.
this leads me to believe that the neo-replicators did not build the city of the ships out of their own breatherns.
also, i think they shouldve let niam give him a chance to try to convince oberon. that wouldve made 1 less enemy and a much better chance to destroy the wraith. i mean they should only use the pause AFTER they realized that convincing wasn't an option.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 12th 2006, 5:50 PM
They were already on their way to Atlantis, the fight would have begun in a matter of minutes. Atlantis's two best defenders, McKay and Sheppard were on Asura. If they woud have waited, that would have surely been the end of our series.
I wonder if the Asurans and the Wraith have a live and let live attitude towards each other, since the Wraith can't really feed on the Asurans, and so the Asurans don't don't have to be concerned with them.
Maybe it wasn't just the Wraith that the Acients fled from, maybe it was the combined threat.
Posted by: droid327 Aug 12th 2006, 6:03 PM
These replicators arent Replicators like in SG-1. They mention they have integrated organics, so A) they're not pure nanites, they're more like mega-nanite-enhanced humans than the human-form replicators from SG1, and B) their city and technology probably isnt all built out of replicator blocks either, its probably just a regular city like Atlantis. So that probably means they're not as powerful as the HFRs, as well as not being susceptible to the EMP-shockwave tech that the Asgard used. It probably also means they're not as tech-hungry as the MW/Ida replicators, since their drive is to destroy, not to assimilate new technology. Hell, we cant even say they're crion-based technology like Reese's reps. They're just another microscopic sentient von Neumann machine, the similarity ends there. Oh, and with the hand-in-the-head mind probe technique...
As for needing 3 ZPMs to blow the city....he was jury-rigging the overload on the fly, without much of a chance to disable safeties and such, so its probable to assume that, with full power, the city's structural integrity fields and the like would have dampened the explosion from just one or two enough that they couldnt be sure it would take it out entirely.
I was kinda disappointed....after Major Winchester pulled his hand out of Shep's head, I was really hoping they were going to resurrect the same Replicators from SG-1....like, they had fired off small capsules of the microscopic replicator blocks into galaxies to seed them with replicator life, one made it to Pegasus and made its way towards the best tech it could sense - the Asuran outpost, where the Reps assimilated the Ancient tech. Instead we get a watered-down, parallel-evolution version of the Replicators. But the exact same formula as in SG-1...the intractable, arrogant leader, and the weak, pliable lieutenant that gives them a way in.
Are we going to see the same sense of betrayal when they bring Niam down from orbit? Is he going to feel the humans betrayed him, just as the Ancients did so long ago, and swear vengeance upon them too?
It seems to me that Rodney would have realized that Niam would have survived the vacuum, and either fallen into a stable orbit around Atlantis (which they seem to imply he had) or burned up in the atmosphere. If they knew he was still alive up there, wouldnt they try to go back up in a jumper and reprogram him again to remove the rage, and brought him safely back like they intended? They seemed sincere enough in their desire to help him and not betray him to so callously leave him floating up in the frozen void.
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 12th 2006, 6:26 PM
Are we going to see the same sense of betrayal when they bring Niam down from orbit? Is he going to feel the humans betrayed him, just as the Ancients did so long ago, and swear vengeance upon them too?
It seems to me that Rodney would have realized that Niam would have survived the vacuum, and either fallen into a stable orbit around Atlantis (which they seem to imply he had) or burned up in the atmosphere. If they knew he was still alive up there, wouldnt they try to go back up in a jumper and reprogram him again to remove the rage, and brought him safely back like they intended? They seemed sincere enough in their desire to help him and not betray him to so callously leave him floating up in the frozen void.
It's not so much they betrayed him as SG1 did to fifth. The whole hands around Weir's neck had a lot to do with it. He actually said that the other were reseting him and that it was too late.
Posted by: max16 Aug 13th 2006, 12:09 AM
i just got done watching Episode 13 - Hot Zone. now i was thinking. do you think that the thing in episode 13 has somthing to do with this episode.
Posted by: FreshPez Aug 13th 2006, 12:42 AM
Ok, it was a very very cool ep, two weeks in a row now. Very well done, especially the flashbacks. Yeah, a do over somewhat of the season six ep, but what are you going to do?
However, they've done a few things that were a common star trek mistake.
1. Our heroes are way too cocky with such a scary race. Badder then the human form replicators. Be a little scared. Be mortified that you've opened the gate and found them. Have a speech, "What have we DONE?" Daniel needs one of these after finding the ori and sicking them on the milky way galaxy.
2. These guys are too powerful. You see it a bit in the episode itself. Hope the writers have a good plan.
Posted by: Revan Aug 13th 2006, 12:42 AM
i just got done watching Episode 13 - Hot Zone. now i was thinking. do you think that the thing in episode 13 has somthing to do with this episode.
Yes. They said the nanites were orignally created to agressively destroy the Wraith. It is possible the Asurans were taking their revenge.
Posted by: FreshPez Aug 13th 2006, 1:03 AM
After thinking about it, here's my problem.
You have met a race of unimaginably powerful beings. You don't screw them. Niam offered to help. It's your only conceivable play, because if you piss em off you either get killed now or later. It's like Picard always getting pissy with Q.
You don't pull your standard sabotage and bust out, we're not talking about Genii here. And McKay goes over his plan, we're thinking they're not in a bugged room?
BTW, when atlantis was blowing up, they had me going. And when the guy had his hand in sheps skull, I was thinking OOOOOHHHH NOOOOO. Not these guys....
I did like how fatalistic Weir was at the end though. We are sooo screwed.... I think at that point I'd be evacuating atlantis.
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 13th 2006, 2:59 AM
My original post said that I felt that the person that created Reese on SG1 was an ancient after watching this episode. Reese had said that her father created her in his image.
I just watched Progeny again. Now I'm thinking that the replicators were created by the ancients, first as nanites, as they said to defeat the Wraith. Niam said that they just progressed to the point that the Ancients wanted to destroy them because they couldn't control them. According to Niam they were unsuccessful. Obviously, a few suvived in order for them to rebuild.
My theory now is an Ancient didn't want to destroy what they had created. Their nanites that were created to help defeat the Wraith, evolved to a human form. The ancient wanted their "child" to survive. I'm thinking he took Reece with him to the planet so that she would survive. Unfortunately, due to the aggression aspect of their makeup, the people on that planet were destroyed. This is probably why Reece's father put her to sleep.
Posted by: David_ofthe_Tar'e Aug 13th 2006, 7:59 AM
Very very cool episode.
First off, how unreal was the image of the Lantean Ships bombarding the planet.... now that’s what I've been wanting to see.
Now is it just me or is Weir a little bit of a shitty negotiator? She meets a race that are unbelievably powerful and she has the nerve to get ancey with them? Not smart by any standard.
My nitpick with this episode is the ZPM's blowing up. In Zero Hour (SG1 804) Carter said that the tainted ZPM was probably capable of blowing up an entire Solar System. But Rodney destroyed THREE ZPM's and the bang didn't seem all that impressive. I know it could be explained away as whatever the tainting material was, but it just didn't seem right.
Its too bad they couldn't keep Niam, all the information he knows about Ancient technology, its just a waste.
Posted by: Lagger Aug 13th 2006, 8:07 AM
My nitpick with this episode is the ZPM's blowing up. In Zero Hour (SG1 804) Carter said that the tainted ZPM was probably capable of blowing up an entire Solar System. But Rodney destroyed THREE ZPM's and the bang didn't seem all that impressive. I know it could be explained away as whatever the tainting material was, but it just didn't seem right.
yeah u pinned it urself..
"tainted"
it was tainted with a substance that was very volitile to energy, and just a spec of dust, destroyed the table..
but the 3 zpm's rodney overloaded,.. well they werent tainted, they were normal, as said a few pages earlier..
hence probably wouldnt hvae such a big bang, im sure if rodney knew how to taint em, it would have been a big bang like in trinity, and hed only need to use one, and take the other 2 as spare.. but alas... he had no way to taint them...
Posted by: ted_simple Aug 13th 2006, 10:13 AM
I somehow feel that they packed too much into this episode
Way too much. It was superficial and sloppy, considering how much it expanded the Atlantis universe. I don't see they put much effort in the show any more. I see the producers clapping each others shoulders, saying "now we have done our Replicator story, one task more completed".
There are so many holes. Frankly, I don't think anything short of a two-parter would have been appropriate. What they did is not much beyond a SG-1 ripoff, the original element is missing. Naturally there have been many new introductions and explanations; so the advancement of the plot had to be pressed into a few minutes.
Many points have already been mentioned, let me do a summary...
- A ZPM going off should destroy a solar system. This is why the explosion should have occured in another solar system, not in orbit of the Atlantis planet. The puddle jumper also shouldn't have flown to Atlantis. Too dangerous: Microscopic blocks of Replicators could have separated from the jumper and started to infiltrate Atlantis.
- QUOTEYou have met a race of unimaginably powerful beings. You don't screw them. Niam offered to help. It's your only conceivable play, because if you piss em off you either get killed now or later. It's like Picard always getting pissy with Q.
You don't pull your standard sabotage and bust out, we're not talking about Genii here. And McKay goes over his plan, we're thinking they're not in a bugged room?
Hell yeah. You meet an aggressive race that thrives on the idea of 'retribution' and what do you do? Right, you piss them off! It also makes no sense that the Asurans have no other means of attacking Atlantis. They should be able to built another Stargate in hours and gate to a planet near Atlantis. Think of the Tollans and Nox who easily devised a means of interstellar travel to take the Tollans to their new home world. A few Replicator blocks smuggled aboard Atlantis and they can start their destructive work.
I can accept that the aggression code wasn't removed from their programming. But at least their aggression shouldn't be directed towards Atlantis... because they're simply too powerful. If the infiltration plan I mentioned wouldn't work, they could attach a hyperspace generator to a ZPM and send it as a bomb to the the Atlantis' solar system... or so... should be done in a couple of hours. The Wraith can't use such methods because they don't seem to have a power source nearly as powerful as a ZPM (they don't even have shields!), but the Asurans do.
Posted by: Revan Aug 13th 2006, 12:15 PM
My original post said that I felt that the person that created Reese on SG1 was an ancient after watching this episode. Reese had said that her father created her in his image.
I just watched Progeny again. Now I'm thinking that the replicators were created by the ancients, first as nanites, as they said to defeat the Wraith. Niam said that they just progressed to the point that the Ancients wanted to destroy them because they couldn't control them. According to Niam they were unsuccessful. Obviously, a few suvived in order for them to rebuild.
My theory now is an Ancient didn't want to destroy what they had created. Their nanites that were created to help defeat the Wraith, evolved to a human form. The ancient wanted their "child" to survive. I'm thinking he took Reece with him to the planet so that she would survive. Unfortunately, due to the aggression aspect of their makeup, the people on that planet were destroyed. This is probably why Reece's father put her to sleep.
I think a replicator built Reece. I think he attempted to purge the agression from her operating code, and did a bad job of it. Well, or he got somebody else to do it, and they did a bad job of it.
Basically, I think whomever built Reece did a poor job of making her operating system. The Replicators in Pegasus were entirely mature and, while agressive, not emotionally childish. I think somebody tried to rewrite the system code and missed a few lines.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Aug 13th 2006, 12:33 PM
i seem to remember them establishing on the show already that shields cant be used in hyperspace?
am i imagining that, or did the writers just forget?
Posted by: dr lee Aug 13th 2006, 12:48 PM
In SG-1 it's true that they say that Shields cannot be used in hyperspace but as this is Ancient technology then maybe they can be used?
Posted by: Revan Aug 13th 2006, 12:52 PM
i seem to remember them establishing on the show already that shields cant be used in hyperspace?
am i imagining that, or did the writers just forget?
That was not established in the show. They never really adressed that issue.
In SG-1 it's true that they say that Shields cannot be used in hyperspace but as this is Ancient technology then maybe they can be used?
The Replicators could not use shields in hyperspace, because they were using all their power to go fast. Those replicators were fairly unadvanced. These are using advanced technology, they are not generating the power themselves.
Posted by: tauri129 Aug 13th 2006, 12:55 PM
amazing episode! seeing the city fly was SO cool i know this plotline is sort of a recycled one, but that doesnt really bother me. i loved when mckay was saying that he'd been tortured in ways to horrible to mention, and then ronon goes "what did they do?" and mckay responds "i SAID it was too horrible to mention!" lol
Posted by: FreshPez Aug 13th 2006, 1:14 PM
One thing I've always liked about O'Neill was his willingness to take action against threatening aliens and bad situations. Think of Threads, when finding out that the weapon at Takara has fallen into enemy hands, he says, "then we get the biggest nuke we can find and we toss it through the gate right NOW." I've always considered it a differentiator from star trek, they live in a dangerous galaxy fulled with far advanced hostile aliens, and they won't necessarily wait to be fired upon three times before responding.
As for the asurans, now that we've pissed them off, I'd be getting the tainted ZPM dropped into the solar system with the Daedalus. NOW. They're on a planet, they're contained, and they're the most terrifying enemy yet seen since the stargate was opened. You have a weapon that can blow up a solar system. Time to use it, not just sit on the balcony waiting for them to attack.
Posted by: tmgrl Aug 13th 2006, 3:05 PM
I liked the show....I read this whole thread...I was totally surprised when I realized that we had a form of "replicated" beings.....
I loved the flying ship!
I must admit, though, I am left with a great deal of confusion and even more questions.
I agree, as some have said, that these are not simply "replicated" creatures....I do believe that they still have within them much of what made the Ancients who they are/were...this can always be a
"ghost in the machine" as it were....Niam was an example of the possibilities for both very good and very evil....
As for the Wraith....as others have said...while these the Ancients orginally intended to use technolgy to destroy the Wraith, the evolved "creation" that resulted, wound up with the instinct to destroy,
but also without a strong or clear reason to need to destroy the Wraith, since they, themselves....the at least partially-organice replicated beings, have no longer a need to destroy the Wraith since they are neither a feeding source for the Wraith...and,
As..replicated Ascended, they also have no need to "intervene" to help us....so
I ask..
What is really driving them, then??? Some wish to ascend as their creators could...yet others seem to have "evolved" into an entirely different entity, yet one that cannot entirely escape the creatures of their origin.
I don't know....I have loads of questions....they aren't simply h***-bent on replicating and destroying. I believe...or, at least, I hope that
....they are far more complex than we can see at present...and that within their own "society" which is present elsewhere....there are always
the rogues.....
There are shades of Orson Scott Card's work of books that have evolved from the Ender's Game short story and all of the ensuing books....the "hive mind" (Wraith...and now, replicators and partially-organic replicated Ancients)...Philotic engergy...or an energy that allows for instantaneous communication...God???
Lots of questions...I will have to watch this one again...and in light of the SG-1 shows, think about these developments....
This whole idea of "updating" immediately sent me back to the OSCard works, since "updating" was required on a regular basis in order for the
beings located on separate planets to be "current" with the state of the hivemind.
....just thinking out loud.
I did like the show.
t
Posted by: JTMAG1 Aug 13th 2006, 3:12 PM
All this talk about blowing up a tainted ZPM. It was boby trapped, they would have to try using it to blow it up. They couldn't just drop it off and let it blow.
I'm not sure about the Reese's creation, because she was a robot. They make it appear that she created the replicators. If she was by an Ancient, they wouldn't have been a problem, because we know the Ancients had the ability easily destroy the replicators.
Posted by: startreksuite Aug 13th 2006, 3:38 PM
Not a half bad episode! I wasn't completely thrilled with rehashing of some of the ideas from "Unnatural Selection", but liked the backstory of the origin of the Replicators, that the Ancients created them. I was bummed that the guy that helped them escape and destroy the ship was overriden and forced to go back to his original programming. But I guess any advance in our destruction of the Wraith will have to be our own, because any chance of an advanced civilization helping us has their ship destroyed, or something like that! 
Posted by: EH Stormcrow Aug 13th 2006, 3:53 PM
Furthermore he'd didnt look too happy...
QUOTE
Has anyone thought that maybe the reason why the explosion was so small was because the 'ZPM'S' weren't normal ZPM's?
That actually makes perfect sense...The Ancients destroyed the entire city and they very well could have took all of the ZPM's before they destroyed the city. The reps created everything in their city, including them, in their creators likeness so it would just make sense that they created their power supply to look like their creators power supply.
Nice thinking buddy..
I don't agree, why would the computer and technology be the same in that case? Rodney seem to be perfectly at ease with it. Why didnt the Jumper just not sit there if it were a replicator?
No, Reese behaved like a spoiled child. She wasnt violent as such, even if she displayed violence when "attacked".
I wonder whether there will be the same scenario as in the SG1 ep where a replicator block survives and takes over a russian sub. I mean, right the Asuran cityship was blown up, does that mean that individual elements cannot fall on the planet and start replicating? Of course the writer's point in using three ZPM might be to imply they were utterly destroyed.
For my remarks, first I loved the ep it was really neat! Then:
-The city ship, when I saw it from underneath I was thinking about Goa'uld motherships, especially because of the hole in the middle (like the pyramid landing hole on motherships), maybe a possible link?
-I wonder if Niamh being reset erased his will to ascend. At least the other two "women" might still be interested, which leaves a possibility of still helping them.
-Question, if the humans were to tell the Asurans that they are the evolution of the Atlanteans that returned to Earth (in a fashion), would they not be protected from the Asurans?
Posted by: Raxor Aug 13th 2006, 5:48 PM
one of my favourites of the season so far. similarities with sg1 but i dont mind. would like to see what happens with this in the future...
Posted by: GateShip#1 Aug 13th 2006, 6:18 PM
when the part of atlantis was being attack by the wraith, i actually believed that part! lol
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 13th 2006, 6:34 PM
Besides the points you made, what is most different between these Replicators and the ones from SG1 is the base program. These Replicators want to emulate their creators, they built an entire civilization to that end. The Replicators from SG1 only want to Replicate.This is the defining episode for where did the Replicators come from originally. Weir said that a few nanites survived the attempted destruction.I like the theory, I speculated something similar in another thread. I don't think that Reece came back with the group from Atlantis though. I think that she would have been created by one of the Lanteans that was evolved with the original project, but her actual construction would have taken place in this galaxy. It might have been a Lantean that wanted to finish the research so they could go home.
I think a replicator built Reece. I think he attempted to purge the agression from her operating code, and did a bad job of it. Well, or he got somebody else to do it, and they did a bad job of it.
Basically, I think whomever built Reece did a poor job of making her operating system. The Replicators in Pegasus were entirely mature and, while agressive, not emotionally childish. I think somebody tried to rewrite the system code and missed a few lines.
Whether it was a Latean or a replicator that had escaped from the Pegasus Galaxy, Reece was built and they tried to correct the aggressive problem, but obviously did not. Reece was very childlike in comparison. In trying to rid her of the aggression tendency, they took her back to a childhood mentality thinking that would help, obviously it didn't.
I have to admit that I liked them tying this into SG1 and our problem with replicators. But, good grief, it took an ancient weapon to defeat them, with Ba'al helping. What are they going to do now? I mean they left the planet where the human replicators were from. Niam said, the others on the planet know what I have done, they are resetting me. So even if the zpms blowing up got rid of the city that came to Atlantis and the human replicators (which I doubt, I'm sure a few nanites survived), what about the planet where they came from, and what about poor Niam, left floating in space?
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Aug 13th 2006, 6:49 PM
That was not established in the show. They never really adressed that issue.
The Replicators could not use shields in hyperspace, because they were using all their power to go fast. Those replicators were fairly unadvanced. These are using advanced technology, they are not generating the power themselves.
ok, when the replicator ship dropped out of hyperspace, there were atleast like 8 ships right there, they knew that, so if it was possible to raise shields in hyperspace, they would have had them on already when they exited, otherwise the asgard would have blown them away (which happend), the replicators are smarter than that
Posted by: Revan Aug 13th 2006, 8:36 PM
ok, when the replicator ship dropped out of hyperspace, there were atleast like 8 ships right there, they knew that, so if it was possible to raise shields in hyperspace, they would have had them on already when they exited, otherwise the asgard would have blown them away (which happend), the replicators are smarter than that
We have seen a few instances of ships dropping out of hyperspace and getting shot up. The Replicators hadn't transferred power to the shields yet. Also, we do not know how long range sensors work, and if they work at all in hyperspace.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Aug 13th 2006, 8:41 PM
there have been countless examples of ships detecting what is in the location they are going on the show
plus, they were going to the asgard homeworld, the only planet in the galexy w/ asgard, they had to know that the bulk of the asgard fleet woudl be there
Posted by: Revan Aug 13th 2006, 9:09 PM
there have been countless examples of ships detecting what is in the location they are going on the show
plus, they were going to the asgard homeworld, the only planet in the galexy w/ asgard, they had to know that the bulk of the asgard fleet woudl be there
Hmmm...
If it is convenient for them to know what is coming, they will. Otherwise, they won't. They were not given time to raise shields, and the ship didn't entirely die either, some of it got to the planet and started taking over.
Posted by: Lagger Aug 13th 2006, 9:35 PM
but if u cant use shields in hyperspace.... then ....
Posted by: J&S4Ever Aug 13th 2006, 9:37 PM
I just don't think that taking that puddle jumper was a good idea. That replicator technology is going to have a field day with Atlantis computer systems.
Apparently, given that they reset Niam all the way from their home planet, these replicator can communicate with each other, so either Niam is going to warn Atlantis about an impending attack or he is going to coordinate, with Replicators and Wraith(??) to destory them?
Posted by: Revan Aug 13th 2006, 9:50 PM
I just don't think that taking that puddle jumper was a good idea. That replicator technology is going to have a field day with Atlantis computer systems.
Apparently, given that they reset Niam all the way from their home planet, these replicator can communicate with each other, so either Niam is going to warn Atlantis about an impending attack or he is going to coordinate, with Replicators and Wraith(??) to destory them?
Why would the jumper from the replicators be any different than the ones from Atlantis?
Niam was reset, he can see Atlantis form orbit. He will be able to help the Asurans attack Atlantis... unless he enters the atmosphere. The past 2 nights, I have seen what happens when something enters the atmosphere. *sizzle*
Posted by: J&S4Ever Aug 13th 2006, 10:39 PM
Why would the jumper from the replicators be any different than the ones from Atlantis?
They were made by Replicators so it would make sense that they are programmed by the Replicators and not the Ancients. Therefore some of the programs might be dangerous to Atlantis.
Or is my thinking off.
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 13th 2006, 10:44 PM
They were made by Replicators so it would make sense that they are programmed by the Replicators and not the Ancients. Therefore some of the programs might be dangerous to Atlantis.
Or is my thinking off.
I noticed or thought it looked different inside the stolen puddle jumper than it does it our jumpers. Maybe it is more advanced or maybe in another episode it'll take off on its own like its being controlled by the replicators through subspace and it picks up Niam and goes back to Asura? I mean you cant expect him to float in space forever?
Posted by: LyaOfTheNox Aug 13th 2006, 10:45 PM
hmmm, I liked this episode I don't really mind when they re-hash old SG-1 episodes, just the fact that the character's personalities are different make the whole episode different.
I felt really silly when it was revealed that the 'destruction of Atlantis' was just a dream put in Sheppard's mind; I knew there were going to be replicators b/c I had read the all the spoilers. Still I was like "OMG, WTF, the wraith! Nooo don't die" then the hand gets pulled out of his forhead and I'm "...oh, yeah, I knew that"
oh, and does anyone like/watch Firefly? 'Come on, tell me someone else was picturing the ending of the last episode of the season, 'Objects in Space'? It ends with the bounty hunter, Jubal Early, just floating in space, the camera zooms in, and he says "Well, here I am." I kept waiting for ...what was his name-- Niam?, to mumble that.
Posted by: magnavox Aug 14th 2006, 12:43 AM
Ooh, replicator episode, creepy, I like that.
Shep's 'vision' of the destruction of Atlantis was awesome. It really goes to show how easily they can be knocked down.
The ending with Niam? floating in space was very cool, just the look on his pale face...reminiscent of Fifth...mwa ha ha ha ha ha 
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 14th 2006, 2:25 AM
The ending with Niam? floating in space was very cool, just the look on his pale face...reminiscent of Fifth...mwa ha ha ha ha ha
Yeah, I said the same thing. It was definitely a revisit of 5th with Sam, only this time it was Niam and Weir.
Posted by: Auntie Em! Aug 14th 2006, 3:26 AM
Um. They know the address to Earth from Sheps vision so why the fu** would they bother with Atlantis? 
Good episode but it SOOOO screamed of rehashness that Atlantis is all about. I did however like the spin on it so I accept it.
I liked Niam and was hoping that he would ascended.
I knew it was not really the wraith coming and the way that Shep put the the self destruct code in I thought he would realize that it could not be real before he put the last of the code in but alas it was not to be.
EH those two woman died on the Atlantis look alike city when the ZPMs exploded. They cannot help us.
That Jumper was a repla-jumper. Why does it not just fall apart thereby killing SGA-1 instantly!!!! 
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 14th 2006, 4:35 AM
Wow, second great episode in a row for Atlantis. I can't say which episode I like more, this one, or Sateda. Although this episode presented an old enemy back on stage, Sateda showed us a glimps into Ronon's past. Although Sateda did that, this episode showed us a glimps into the Ancients past, and their huge mistakes. I guess it's true that absolutely nothing is perfect.
Oberoth was a great character. Why the f*** did they kill him off that fast? They would have made great episodes with him as the leader of the Asurans. Still, Niam is kind of like a Fifth for the Asurans, I bet he will be back.
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 14th 2006, 4:38 AM
That Oberoth guy, I'm sure they could bring him back if they really wanted, I mean all they'd have to do is say he was replicated/made again, since he's a leader figure and stuff. I'd rather see Niam again which we probably will.
Posted by: Pitry Aug 14th 2006, 5:18 AM
So that's how Unnatural Selection was supposed to look.
I wondered.
Finally - I know I've said about Atlantis episodes that they're excellent before, but this is one of the only I can say this without adding for myslef - "for Atlantis". Finally, a great episode.
Nah, I don't mind the Unnatural Selection vibes. Or rehashes. Or..
The Asuran city was marvelous. I loved it. See - that's how they shouldb have done the Atlantis shots in Pegasus Project!
Arrogant Ancioents. Surprise, surprise.
They weren't exactly replicators, no. I agree. Now I hope they explain somehow the similarities between these replicators and the ones in the Milky Way galaxy - unless Reese was built by the Ancients? They also have another very differnet trait - the replicators don't have feelings. They're not aggressive, they're not hateful, they jsut... replicate. These lot have feelings. Oooooh (cue dramatic music).
Loved the bits when.. well, Decent Replicator, can't remember his name - showed Weir their history. All those post-apocalyptic-war pictures. Beautiful. Sheppard's hallucinations.... Rodney's arbitrary numbers and complaining on why he's not going alone to these missions - ha! Unfortunately, Ronon and Teyla returned to being wallflowers, Ronon's only contribution was to remove that Asuran (and ha, the way Rodney automatically turned to him to do it) - and Teyla on repeating Jonas Quinn's half-arsed moral issues from Unnatural Selection about betrayel... Either get a morally-inclined character a-la Jackson\ start being consistant about moral reactions - or drop it altogehter. Please?
But it was great. REally looking forward to Real World.
Posted by: Lagger Aug 14th 2006, 6:31 AM
i dont no... these replicators seem different from milky way replicators....
they are not as agressive, and they havent seemed to advance their tech.... its still basic ancient technology they are using...
as for the puddle jumper, thats a very good idea.. but i think its a normal puddle jumper... that the puddle jumper is really an object rather than a replicator
Posted by: ancient01 Aug 14th 2006, 6:34 AM
I'm not sure we really know that the Asurans really have any relation to the Replicators. I agree it does seem likely, but I'm sure the writers can make it go any way they want. My feeling about the puddle jumper is that it is just like the ancients' jumpers. The Asurans wanted to imitate their creators, so it stands to reason to me that all their equipment and environment "real" to match the ancients rather than like the replicator blocks. But, like I said, the writers can go any direction they want to advance the storyline...
Posted by: JinxY Aug 14th 2006, 7:39 AM
Wow, we finally got to see the big snow-flake in space 
I liked the replicator story, not original but good. However since the entire city was built by the replicators, and they have that interconnection with eachother, what stopped them from taking over the jumper ? They got to Niam pretty fast ....
Other things I liked were dr.Weir coming on the mission with the team, the Asuran city, and the flashback of it's previous destruction.
What I didn't like was how easily they gave up the fact that they came from an Ancient city, clearly Oberoth immediatly though of Atlantis, the ZPM overload why distroy them when they could have taken them to Atlantis ? They took the jumper ... I'm sure they could have found a lot of ways of distoying the asuran city once it was left without it's power source.
I don't think they betraid Niam in any way, he was being overwritten and he was clearly a danger to everyone, in fact the ideea of bringing him along in the first place was bad, McKay should have known the others will get to Niam sooner or later.
Once again, the incredible Ancient arrogance, passed over to their creations, was the key to their distruction.
Posted by: Branston Aug 14th 2006, 7:54 AM
Um. They know the address to Earth from Sheps vision so why the fu** would they bother with Atlantis?
Not sure what you mean by that, the replicators don't seem to be interested in any other planet than there own otherwise i'm sure they could have taken over most of the galaxy by now afterall havent they had like 10,000 years to build a kick ass fleet of ships, soldiers (afterall numbers would only be limited to resources) etc but all they did was build a very impressive megacity. They could of owned the wraith a long time ago and conquered the pegasus galaxy and any other if they really wanted. Get the feeling theres a lot more to come from this race.
Posted by: TheCordler Aug 14th 2006, 8:33 AM
This episode was not written with enough difference to the replicater episodes of SG-1, but they did manage to give more into the evolution of the nanites from atlantis.
-The ZPM's do not blow up solar systems, only when combined with that unknown element from camulus and become tainted do they reach a volitile blast. The point is the element allows the ZPM to release all the energy of it's subspace in a frightful explosion.
- the ZPM overload is not the same as a bomb, McKay said he was going to set the ZPMs to overload. Overload means pumping more energy into something that causes it to explode. hence all he did was draw out more energy than any atlantis generators and tech could handle so that they blow up, think of it as the zpm's didnt explode but the generator that filters thier energy did.
- apparently the ancients seemed to have 2 dozen aurora's near the end of the war bombing the asurans, what did they mystically lose all 24?
- did anyone else get the feeling that when the asurans said they were almost ready to use their weapon that will wipe out the wraith entirely, the Weapon at Dakara?? could they be designing one to elimenate the wraith?
- was it me or could we not have asked Niam where the spare ZPM's were before they got out? i mean as a replicater immune couldn't he have gotten several for us.
- If the Team can just goto a computer in atlantis and google up info, why not google info on the ZPM factory in atlantis. Apparently judging from Niam's response they produce them in quantity as if from a factory. Im sure atlantis has one.
- seeing that Ronan's Gun can stun the asurans, why didn't they just stun niam at the end, then reprogram and cut him off from the subspace update?
- I wonder if those nifty Asuran pistols can do more than stun, i hope they have a kill feature as they now possess at least 3 :-D
- I couldn't help but laugh that shepard was damned quick to get the asuran pistol from a frozen asuran, remembering what they did in his dream of course.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Aug 14th 2006, 9:07 AM
ok, in terms of auntie ems thing about taht they know where the milky way is, and how to get there from johns mind, they have no desire to go there and take over, remember that they are trying to be the ancients, who were by nature a peaceful race (atleast tahts what we're supposed to assume), the only reason they were going to attack was to get revenge on the ancients, they have no issue with the humans
in terms of the leader getting blown up, he could still be alive, remember that energy on powers the replicators, so, whereas the city (which was constructed of regular material) was blown up, the asurans could have been perfectly fine, and even if he was blown up, all he needs is a few microscopic blocks left to grow again
for cordler about all the ancient warships, remember that they were in a hundred years war with an enemy that vastly outnumbered them, so for those 2 dozen (if tahts how many there were) ships, the wraith probably had 200 hives, and, we dont kknow how early in the war that was
another thing, the city they "built" looks like it was just repaired from the wreckage of the ancient city that the battleships were attacking, it wasnt taking much damage, so there was probably a way to just target the asurans themselves
as for the reprograming the guy once the others changed him back, they couldnt do taht from atlantis, because the controls for that were on the asuran cit... and that just blew up
Posted by: EH Stormcrow Aug 14th 2006, 9:37 AM
They were in the heat of battle...he didnt think about it in time.
I'm worried about Niamh being in space, he can relay any computer attack from the Asurans to the Ancient computers in Atlantis. Or, as pointed out, the Jumper could carry the computer attack.
Posted by: toolazytothinkofanoriginalname Aug 14th 2006, 9:45 AM
how is the jumper going to attack? you have to be flying it
Posted by: Goa'uld Aug 14th 2006, 1:38 PM
Here's what I thougt about this episode.
Good things: Seeing the city fly
Watching Atlantis blow up
Bad things: Everyting else
I didn't like Unnatural Selection, and this crappy ripoff was even worse. I've liked every episode on Season 3 so far except this one, so I hope that the writers stop writing episodes like this.
Posted by: Revan Aug 14th 2006, 3:03 PM
Never talk about downloading
It is entirely against forum rules to discuss illegal activities such as downloading. I repeat, it is illegal, don't do it in the forum.
Posted by: Auntie Em! Aug 14th 2006, 3:45 PM
They want to go after the Ancients so they go after an ancient city they know contains no ancients yet they know of earth. Earth is where the ancients returned to. Ancient than breed with humans carrying their seeds into some of human kind. They must also know that some of those human are part ancient, all be it a small peice. So again why exactly are they going after Atlantis?
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 14th 2006, 4:03 PM
I took a second watch at the episode, Auntie, and I can answer your question.
It seems that the Ancients included a program into the Asurans that precluded them from ever harming them. The only way they can have retribution on Ancients is to destroy the objects they used. Atlantis has no Ancients anymore, so the Asurans can destroy it without bypassing this program and take their revenge.
Posted by: Auntie Em! Aug 14th 2006, 4:09 PM
DUH!!!!!!!!!!
***smacks head***
Of course. Thank you Marv. Good to have you back. 
Posted by: ancient01 Aug 14th 2006, 4:48 PM
Here's an observation I hadn't considered before- I'm guessing that having the ancient gene isn't enough to protect Sheppard and friends from the Asurans' Asimov rule. They were fully prepared to kill the whole group.
Posted by: Aazadan Aug 14th 2006, 8:41 PM
Here's an observation I hadn't considered before- I'm guessing that having the ancient gene isn't enough to protect Sheppard and friends from the Asurans' Asimov rule. They were fully prepared to kill the whole group.
They might not have known about it.
Posted by: Lagger Aug 14th 2006, 10:19 PM
yeah..... their genes dont matter...
after all you cant class them as ancients... hes not belonging to a race that is millions of years old...
i think it would have to be a real ancient.. ie one thats frozen etc..
the program told them they couldnt attack ancients, but didnt say they couldnt attack humans..
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 14th 2006, 11:12 PM
Em, I had wanted it to end with Niam ascending while in the puddle jumper. But like my husband said, "no matter what they want, they are a machine, they can never ascend to another plane of existance.
As far as Oberoth plan for the Wraith, I have to wonder what it is except to get as many Wraiths as they can on a planet, with just them, and the Wraith die of starvation, or by killing each other for food. Niam and his people are Replicators/Machines, so they cannot be fed upon.
I remember a thread a long time ago about who was worse, replicators or wraith. I said replicators of course, the wraith cannot feed on them, so eventually they will die.
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 15th 2006, 1:14 AM
DUH!!!!!!!!!!
***smacks head***
Of course. Thank you Marv. Good to have you back.
Thank you, Auntie, it's good to be back...
Now, back to the issue. I don't think that having a gene would determine the Asurans to not harm them either. It is the Ancients that created them, not some group of people 10,000 years later that have their gene sort of like bad luck or something. The Asurans know that the people from Atlantis are the second evolution, they know that even if they have the gene, they are not Ancients.
Posted by: Gate Jumper Aug 15th 2006, 2:39 AM
Plus the ancients have a much higher brain activity so that could give off something that the replicators can detect to determine that they're ancients, and the atlantis team wont have anything close to that level.
Posted by: FrankM Aug 15th 2006, 12:51 PM
It is entirely against forum rules to discuss illegal activities such as downloading. I repeat, it is illegal, don't do it in the forum.
I fully support and agree with the stand, "It is entirely against forum rules to discuss illegal activities such as downloading" ... I would say go back and re-read my original message however my original message has been deleted. If you recall my original message ... IT NEVER ASKED where ANYTHING could be downloaded, it NEVER ASKED for anything illegal. It ONLY asked if the episode was being rebroadcast anywhere prior to next weeks episode, or barring that if there was any LEGAL service whereby the episode could be viewed (i.e. RePlayTV or something of that nature). I also indicated that I watch the episodes via DishNetwork and asked if anyone knows if DishNetwork offers any service (ANY LEGAL SERVICE) whereby you can view something already broadcast. I'm a little confused why my last message would be deleted and I'm not happy that it appears that I was asking for something illegal or asking for some download site which I WAS NOT DOING.
In any case, I spoke with a friend of mine locally that happened to record the show and still has his recorded copy. He has invited me over for dinner, our wives can go shopping and our children can play together well we have a chance to watch the episode, lucky we can do that on Thursday, so I'll get a chance to see the episode before the next episode (which was my goal).
Thank you.
Posted by: Lt. Michael Aug 17th 2006, 9:24 AM
What a brilliant ep.
Nice to see the flying city in action.
Unlike others I don't think this storyline was a rip off from SG-1. I see it as a background story on how the replicatores evolved in the first place.
After watching this ep. we can now piece together the hole replicator time line.
Please correct me if I'm wrong or feel free to add.
More than 10,000 years ago : The Alterans in Pegasus invent the nanites. These evolves into some "artificial Lanteans".Then the Lanteans realises that they aren't going to do what they were designed for they decided to end the experiment by killing them. Some how some of the nanites survive and rebuild in numbers and society.
Less than 10,000 years ago: One of the Alterans returning from Atlantis properly one of the original creators of the nanites decides to give his research a second chance and created Reese. Reese when created the bug like replicator as toys. She only gave them 2 instructions. To replicate and protect them self. They end up with killing all life on the planet and in their search for better materials to replicate from the end up in the Ida galaxy along with the Asgards.
From here the story as we have seen in SG-1 during the years.
This ep. also answers a lot of previous open questions. Where did the replicators come from in the first place. How was Jack O'Niel so quickly able to come up with at weapon from destroying the replicators and so on.
Posted by: Auntie Em! Aug 17th 2006, 9:27 AM
Way more than 10,000 years from the sounds of it.
There is nothing to say that these replicators are the same relplicators in the MW. That has to be stated in the shows first. Though we can guess at it.
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 17th 2006, 9:34 AM
Way more than 10,000 years from the sounds of it.
There is nothing to say that these replicators are the same relplicators in the MW. That has to be stated in the shows first. Though we can guess at it.
Since TPTB has used the same word for them, we have to assume that they are somehow related. Lt Michael's explanation sounds plausable, making the Asurans the first and better version of Replicators.
I believe that some Ancient took human form or left to that planet prior to ascension and tried to help Reese's planet by creating her and enabling her ability to produce those small replicators. That was probably her "father". But something went wrong and he lost control of that experiment, and had to shut her down as the small replicators became independent and were destroying the planet.
Posted by: Lt. Michael Aug 17th 2006, 10:20 AM
I know "more than 10,000 years" isn't a very precise definition but all we know is that the Asuran nanites was created during the war between the Wraith and the Lanteans and that the Lanteans left Atlanis 10,000 years ago. We can only speculate how long time the war went on. As far as I remember we haven't heard exactly how long the war was.
There is also a big difference between the different human form replicators.
The Asuran build everything in the normal way like their creators. They copied the Lanteans as much as possible.
Reese was more a "androide type" replicator. She was build with nano technology but also had a battery and some other electronic stuff in the small sliding thing on her neck.
First to Sixth plus RepliCarter was build by nanites created from neutronium but they build a lot of stuff from the classic replicator block like Fifth's ship.
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 17th 2006, 10:28 AM
I know "more than 10,000 years" isn't a very precise definition but all we know is that the Asuran nanites was created during the war between the Wraith and the Lanteans and that the Lanteans left Atlanis 10,000 years ago. We can only speculate how long time the war went on. As far as I remember we haven't heard exactly how long the war was.
There is also a big difference between the different human form replicators.
The Asuran build everything in the normal way like their creators. They copied the Lanteans as much as possible.
Reese was more a "androide type" replicator. She was build with nano technology but also had a battery and some other electronic stuff in the small sliding thing on her neck.
First to Sixth plus RepliCarter was build by nanites created from neutronium but they build a lot of stuff from the classic replicator block like Fifth's ship.
Yes we know how long the war was... It lasted for almost one humdred years. In this time, the Ancients lost planet by planet until only Atlantis remained. The decision of leaving Atlantis came shortly after this.
The difference between replicators comes from the materials that were available for them to replicate wherever they were. The master block was probably insterted in the main program, and it looks different for both forms of Replicators.
Posted by: Lt. Michael Aug 17th 2006, 10:33 AM
In that case we then know the Asurans was created between 10,100 and 10,000 years ago. Then "the more 10,000 years ago" wasn't way off.
I also think one of the main differences is that the Asurans was created by the Lanteans. The SG-1 replicators - first the bug type and later the human form - was created by Reese witch had a mind of a child.
Posted by: CobraBog Aug 17th 2006, 11:59 AM
I wonder why wuld someone program an android like Rees with the mind off a child. Way was an android desined to protect the people form that palnet with the mind of a child
Posted by: Revan Aug 17th 2006, 12:18 PM
I wonder why wuld someone program an android like Rees with the mind off a child. Way was an android desined to protect the people form that palnet with the mind of a child
It seems unlikely that her creator meant to make her immature. Also, she was not the planet's protector... it turned out she was actually its destroyer. The creator probably screwed up somehow.
Posted by: FrankM Aug 17th 2006, 12:49 PM
I wonder why wuld someone program an android like Rees with the mind off a child. Way was an android desined to protect the people form that palnet with the mind of a child
Is it possible that Reese's creator made her with the intellilect of a child to see how the android would evolve? I think it is possible that the creator was testing Reese and her ability to learn. Just a thought anyway.
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 17th 2006, 7:37 PM
I posted before that Reece and these replicators were connected.
I suggested that an ancient took the technology to this other planet and tried to create a replicator minus the aggression attitude. This would explain the childlike mentality of Reece. He took it too far, yet was unable to remove the aggression attitude. I agree with Marv, they must be connected simply because they used the term replicators for them both. Reece was the beginning of all replicators in the MW. They did finally advance to become human like, similar to what we now have in the Pegasus Galaxy.
Posted by: Revan Aug 17th 2006, 11:23 PM
I really didn't like how Weir was manipulating poor Niam. She was dangling the ascention carrot right in front of his face to get him to help them escape. I understand they did it for the story arc, but it was a dumb thing to do overall. They should have given Niam at least some chance to change Oberoth's mind.
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 18th 2006, 2:03 AM
I really didn't like how Weir was manipulating poor Niam. She was dangling the ascention carrot right in front of his face to get him to help them escape. I understand they did it for the story arc, but it was a dumb thing to do overall. They should have given Niam at least some chance to change Oberoth's mind.
I can understand why they didn't give Niam a chance with Oberoth. But, I really didn't want them to "betray" Niam, much like they betrayed 5th on SG1. Like I said before, I wanted Niam to ascend, but like my husband said, "no, he cannot, he's a machine." Couldn't they have stunned him with a Wraith weapon, taken him back to Atlantis and deactivated him until they could re-program him?
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 18th 2006, 4:02 AM
I really didn't like how Weir was manipulating poor Niam. She was dangling the ascention carrot right in front of his face to get him to help them escape. I understand they did it for the story arc, but it was a dumb thing to do overall. They should have given Niam at least some chance to change Oberoth's mind.
Yes, exactly... And how can such an advanced being fall for it that easily? How could he be blinded by this only goal of ascension. He was a machine, not a human (and certainly not Fifth, although...), and seeing how Weir talks to Niam, and the way he looks at her and follows everyone's command (give codes, open this, ascension is in your grasp, etc.). They should have given Niam more personality, he should have looked much more advanced than us...
Posted by: HAI KON Aug 18th 2006, 12:05 PM
Since when do puddle jumpers have shields?
Did anybody else notice that? (part where shepard and his team escape in the mind probe)
Posted by: Revan Aug 18th 2006, 12:33 PM
Since when do puddle jumpers have shields?
Did anybody else notice that? (part where shepard and his team escape in the mind probe)
I think many of the small craft in the show have minor shielding. Not death gliders, or 302's... but transports and Al'Kesh and jumpers
Posted by: Pitry Aug 18th 2006, 3:43 PM
I posted before that Reece and these replicators were connected.
I suggested that an ancient took the technology to this other planet and tried to create a replicator minus the aggression attitude. This would explain the childlike mentality of Reece. He took it too far, yet was unable to remove the aggression attitude. I agree with Marv, they must be connected simply because they used the term replicators for them both. Reece was the beginning of all replicators in the MW. They did finally advance to become human like, similar to what we now have in the Pegasus Galaxy.
Good point.
If that is indeed the case, it's ironic that in the end it's the replicators who inserted those traits back - well, they're not as aggressive as the Asurans are cut out to be, and yet. ;)
Posted by: TheCordler Aug 20th 2006, 11:39 PM
Since when do puddle jumpers have shields?
Did anybody else notice that? (part where shepard and his team escape in the mind probe)
Posted by: Mau Aug 24th 2006, 10:44 AM
The first time of replicators:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nemesis_%28Stargate_SG-1%29
Explanation of replicator history:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replicator_(Stargate)
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 24th 2006, 10:57 AM
Wikipedia is the result of people being able to edit every information located there. I, for once, don't entirely trust anything there is there for this reason. Only TPTB can confirm information as official.
Posted by: agentx5 Aug 25th 2006, 8:46 AM
This episode started out great and the twist was very clever, but I HATED the ending of this one.
I was hoping the maybe this time Wier could get the replicators to be allies. You know, like good replicators vs. bad replicators. Talk about a kick-ass ally.
The ending felt horribly weak both with the writing of script and obviously simple budget.
Not to mention I'm abhored by the idea that they brought the replicators bad. What the hell? Are the Wraith not good enough anymore?
So in conclusion why I hated the ending: opening old can of worms already done (replicators again), either tying loose ends that could be cool for growth of Stargate as a whole (replicators as allies) too soon or leaving other loose ends implying impossibilty of survival, and creating another enemy as if the Wraith weren't strong enough or something.
Otherwise it was a very well done episode
That was a pretty wussy explosion for 3 freakin' ZPM's.
I was hoping to see the dude ascend... I don't know where they're going with these Replicators, but I think they should've stuck with just one enemy on the show.
Overall, most of the episode was good. It felt a little rushed at the end though.
I agree.
Posted by: Revan Aug 25th 2006, 10:14 AM
This episode started out great and the twist was very clever, but I HATED the ending of this one.
I was hoping the maybe this time Wier could get the replicators to be allies. You know, like good replicators vs. bad replicators. Talk about a kick-ass ally.
The ending felt horribly weak both with the writing of script and obviously simple budget.
Not to mention I'm abhored by the idea that they brought the replicators bad. What the hell? Are the Wraith not good enough anymore?
So in conclusion why I hated the ending: opening old can of worms already done (replicators again), either tying loose ends that could be cool for growth of Stargate as a whole (replicators as allies) too soon or leaving other loose ends implying impossibilty of survival, and creating another enemy as if the Wraith weren't strong enough or something.
Otherwise it was a very well done episode
I agree.
We cannot be in control. The good guys have to be at a disadvantage in this show, or there is no peril... nothing scary, no urgency. For some reason Stargate has to be an underdog story.
There aren't anymore MilkyWay replicators... they were all destroyed using the Ancient Device on Dakara.
No, they Wraith are weak... they just aren't scary...
That wouldn't have been cool, we would have destroyed the Wraith in a week.... removing all enemies... what would have been done then? End the show? That is why we now have the Asurans... because the Wraith are not strong enough...
Posted by: IndyJan Aug 25th 2006, 7:07 PM
No, they Wraith are weak... they just aren't scary...
I have been saying this from day one. I am not intimidated or scared by the Wraith. They are so cliche they are not even funny. I usually end up laughing at them, especially the huge mouths full of bad teeth.
Posted by: Revan Aug 25th 2006, 8:13 PM
I have been saying this from day one. I am not intimidated or scared by the Wraith. They are so cliche they are not even funny. I usually end up laughing at them, especially the huge mouths full of bad teeth.
And their freaky-ass smiles... they need to close their mouths more often... I bet all the actos have chapped lips.
Posted by: Jade Aug 29th 2006, 4:39 AM
So these replicators are more evolved?
I am not sure if I missed anything, but if the teams' mind had been probed, doesn't that mean all the replicator from that planet would know Atlantis location, which means what stops them from sending more ship to bomb the crap out of Atlantis?
Posted by: Revan Aug 29th 2006, 12:26 PM
So these replicators are more evolved?
I am not sure if I missed anything, but if the teams' mind had been probed, doesn't that mean all the replicator from that planet would know Atlantis location, which means what stops them from sending more ship to bomb the crap out of Atlantis?
They might. They must be built first.
Posted by: Malika Aug 29th 2006, 4:04 PM
Hmm, what do you think McKay meant by, ?too hideous to recount.?
When they said Atlantis would be dark I didn't think they meant that, if it is what im thinking , but my mind takes strange twists. The comment on Lantean vr's Atlantean, depends on what you think, everything i've read says Lantean like fiction, but there should be a ' at the front.
Love Atantis! 
Posted by: dr lee Aug 29th 2006, 4:41 PM
When he said that my brother said to me 'He was stuck in a room with only lemons to eat'
Posted by: magnumopus Sep 10th 2006, 1:45 PM
this episode was stunningly good
srry fo double posting...but .....episodes like this make sg-1 look like crap!
Posted by: cosmos Sep 12th 2006, 9:55 AM
Replicators again?
I would be much happier if they were all blown up in this episode in one go.
Plus they gave them the Knowledge of the Ancients and the Strength of another Atlantis type City with infinite ZPMs, they are too strong and as such our heroes' solutions seem very cheap and convenient.
It would have been 2 out of 5 If Shep's fantasy wasn't there which I enjoyed and so, I'll give the episode, overall a 3/5. But I wish we would have a hint of what the others were going through their fantasies.
Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 15th 2006, 5:27 PM
A very good episode, Atlantis is much better than SG-1 so far (apart from 'Irresistible'). The only thing I didn't like was the end, everything happened too quickly. There was too much put in the middle of the episode and it made the ending seem rushed. I know the team had to survive but the way it happened just seemed a cop out, it was as if the writers had realised they needed to end the episode quickly.
If the other Asurans were able to reset Niam, why couldn't he send the changes that McKay had made to the rest of the Asurans?
Posted by: Revan Nov 15th 2006, 5:36 PM
A very good episode, Atlantis is much better than SG-1 so far (apart from 'Irresistible'). The only thing I didn't like was the end, everything happened too quickly. There was too much put in the middle of the episode and it made the ending seem rushed. I know the team had to survive but the way it happened just seemed a cop out, it was as if the writers had realised they needed to end the episode quickly.
If the other Asurans were able to reset Niam, why couldn't he send the changes that McKay had made to the rest of the Asurans?
McKay never reset Niam, thats what he was about to do when Niam was getting taken over.
McKay had opened the door when he changed the base code to allow his virus to freeze them.
Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 15th 2006, 5:44 PM
McKay said that he had changed Niam's code so that he wouldn't be aggressive and it would be spread to the rest of the Asurans when they all merged. What I meant was if the other Asurans could reset Niam, why couldn't he have "reset" the others by sending the changes that McKay had made to him to the rest of the Asurans?
Posted by: Revan Nov 15th 2006, 5:50 PM
McKay said that he had changed Niam's code so that he wouldn't be aggressive and it would be spread to the rest of the Asurans when they all merged. What I meant was if the other Asurans could reset Niam, why couldn't he have "reset" the others by sending the changes that McKay had made to him to the rest of the Asurans?
If they figured out what was going on they must have blocked him, so he couldn't upload the package. It would have been fairly simple, because nobody knew, and nobody was dead... but the others found out what he did, so they simply took control of him.
Posted by: JC1 Nov 15th 2006, 6:08 PM
Definately a good episode. The Asuran city looked pretty impressive. It was nice to see they didn't just re-use the Atlantis set.
The Asurans don't seem as dangerous as the replicators. They seem happy to be just left alone. And why attack the humans on Atlantis, they're not Ancients?
It was intresting that Ronans weapon seemed to stun Asurans. I don't think we've seen any weapon, except the disruptor, have any affect on human replicators. I'd love to know where he got that gun from.
Posted by: Revan Nov 15th 2006, 6:18 PM
Definately a good episode. The Asuran city looked pretty impressive. It was nice to see they didn't just re-use the Atlantis set.
The Asurans don't seem as dangerous as the replicators. They seem happy to be just left alone. And why attack the humans on Atlantis, they're not Ancients?
It was intresting that Ronans weapon seemed to stun Asurans. I don't think we've seen any weapon, except the disruptor, have any affect on human replicators. I'd love to know where he got that gun from.
There are no more Lantians on Atlantis, so, to get vengeance, they will simply destroy Atlantis, the city of the Lantians. It is the next best thing...
Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 15th 2006, 6:43 PM
Posted by: peter_pan Nov 15th 2006, 7:23 PM
Why do they always do this? they have a ZPM in there sites and they let it go again I now its to exstend the story line of the program you cant have them getting hold of every thing all at once. But it still does my head in.
Why didn?t they just take all 3 ZPMs instead of using them to blow up the city. If they had it would have just left the city adrift and defenceless all they would have had to do then is fly back up with a nuke if they wanted too.
As for why when the ZPMs blow up it didn?t make a really big bang this is my answer to that. Its didn?t actually blow up the ZPMs but all the systems they where connected too well that?s my answer anyway.
Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 16th 2006, 4:30 AM
Posted by: peter_pan Nov 16th 2006, 12:13 PM
If they kept the shield up so the puddle jumpers could not through until they got a nuke. Which they could have got from earth through the Stargate. If they had took all 3 then they would have had 4 in total so one could have been sent though the gate to power it from that side sending them a nuke. Or just use the ZPMs to fly away in Atlantis.
Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 16th 2006, 12:36 PM
Posted by: peter_pan Nov 16th 2006, 12:45 PM
Well they could have just put the shield until they worked out how to fly it and waited for Daedalus to turn up and destroy the Asuran city. Then daedalus could have gone to the next nearest stargate then use that to get into Atlantis until they worked out how to fly the city.
Posted by: Dafmeister Nov 16th 2006, 12:52 PM
So they're suddenly going to work out how to pilot the city even though they haven't been able to for the last two years? Do you honestly think the Asurans would wait around while the Daedlaus attacks their city? A dozen Puddle Jumpers would take Daedalus out in seconds.
What happens if the Wraith show up? They need the cloak to hide the city because the Wraith weapons drain the shield quickly and the cloak can't be activated if the shield is up. Whatever the scenario, they couldn't have the ZPMs, destroy the city and the Asurans in it. They either leave the ZPMs and destroy the city or take the ZPMs and sonner or later have the Asurans invade Atlantis.
Posted by: 38_mins moo Nov 19th 2006, 4:49 PM
Got to say this was one of the best Atlantis episodes for a while. I liked the grandure of the asurans city and when niam was showing elizabeth the ancient worships destroying the city. Am i right in thinking that next weeks episode is considered the 2nd part but will stand on its own as a seperate episode?
Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jan 9th 2007, 5:37 AM
...
WEIR: May I ask, what counsel did you offer that the others chose to disregard?
Is it just me or do you think the Asurans suggested killing all humans ??
(And that virus we met earlier in Hot Zone was their idea how...)
Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 9th 2007, 8:41 AM
Posted by: ALIEN_JL Jan 9th 2007, 11:49 AM
When has it been suggested they want to kill all Humans?
Who said it was their idea? The nanites seen in 'Hotzone' evolved to form the Asurans, they could not have created them.
TEYLA: Why would they do this?
WEIR: I think they look at the Ancients like parents who betrayed them, and
now they see humans as the favoured siblings who receive all the parents' love.
They've been seeking revenge ever since.
SHEPPARD: Just what we need � more bad guys.
McKAY: Which means we've probably just identified the race that created the
nanovirus that nearly killed me a couple of years ago.
---
Sounds to me like they do hate humans and want to kill them and that they
created the virus we met... (didn't evolve from it...)
Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 9th 2007, 1:41 PM
Posted by: Revan Jan 9th 2007, 3:55 PM
TEYLA: Why would they do this?
WEIR: I think they look at the Ancients like parents who betrayed them, and
now they see humans as the favoured siblings who receive all the parents' love.
They've been seeking revenge ever since.
SHEPPARD: Just what we need � more bad guys.
McKAY: Which means we've probably just identified the race that created the
nanovirus that nearly killed me a couple of years ago.
---
Sounds to me like they do hate humans and want to kill them and that they
created the virus we met... (didn't evolve from it...)
That was all speculation. As Daf said, neither Weir nor McKay have any of the facts... so they could not know the truth. Eventually Weir finds out what really happened, when Niam tells her. At which point we find out they did evolve from the nano-virus.
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 9th 2007, 5:12 PM
Here, let me help you with the quote from where Niam shows Weir what the Asurans really are. You should have remembered this ALIEN, you saw the episode, and yet missed the most important part:
NIAM: There was no disagreement, Dr Weir. Only betrayal. If you wish to know the truth of who we are, I will show you.
McKAY: Elizabeth?
WEIR: It's OK, Rodney...
NIAM: The Ancients, as you call them, were desperate in their search for a better way to fight the Wraith. Though greatly outnumbered, they relied on their technological superiority to give them a much needed advantage. Soon, they succeeded in creating one. Instead of building bigger more powerful weapons, they chose to build smaller ones. Microscopic machines designed to infiltrate and destroy from within.
WEIR: Nanites.
NIAM: In these tiny killing machines, the Ancients embrued an agression that surpassed even that of their enemy. The technology allowed for the organic assimilation and self-replication to increase their effectiveness. And replicate they did... They grew in numbers, evolving at a rate that took the Ancients by surprise. The molecular machines begun interlocking, assembling themselves to form more complex organisms, eventually evolving in the most effective and efficient form they knew of. This is how we were born. We took the image of our creators, yet we were far different from them. The agression program remained into our core, feeling a rage we could not contain. We implored them to have this violent nature removed from our programming, but the Ancients wanted a weapon, and since their scientists included a directive prohibiting us from ever harming them, they continued the experiment. When the Ancients concluded that the experiment had gone too far, that we would never become the weapon they desired to create, they decided to end it. So they chose to destroy us, to leave no trace of us behind.
Posted by: baggers1982 Jan 9th 2007, 7:10 PM
Here, let me help you with the quote from where Niam shows Weir what the Asurans really are. You should have remembered this ALIEN, you saw the episode, and yet missed the most important part:
My own opinion is that the asurans just have a problem with the Ancients, during their occupation of Atlantis, all the ancients were killed on site, yet the humans were simply captured.
So as long as we occupy atlantis, the asurans will have an issue with us, but i doubt this issue extends to all humans.
they have had 10,000 years to deal with the wraith too, but they haven't yet. so maybe there is a sinister plot to eradicate all sentient life in pegasus.
Posted by: Dafmeister Jan 9th 2007, 7:24 PM
The Asurans are pissed at the Ancients because they didn't give them a chance to live, they decided to kill wipe out their mistake instead. Humans don't factor into it.
Posted by: baggers1982 Jan 9th 2007, 7:31 PM
The don't need to deal with the Wraith though, they can't feed on the Asurans and they have less advanced tech than the Asurans. If it's true that the Asurans want to kill all the Humans in Pegasus, they would have done so by now.
The Asurans are pissed at the Ancients because they didn't give them a chance to live, they decided to kill wipe out their mistake instead. Humans don't factor into it.
The only thing i'd say that would contradict that statement is that the asurans were programmed to destroy the wraith. and i'm very surprised that they haven't already. so although they don't pose any immediate threat to the asurans. surely they should have some kind of built in desire to do what they were designed for.
I agree that the asurans probably do not have a grand plan for the humans, but can you see them co existing with us, and sharing the galaxy!
Posted by: Parmenides Jan 23rd 2007, 2:09 PM
A total rehash, but still quite interesting. The Asuran mega-city was very cool.
As for the wimpy power of the ZPM explosion, remember, as people have said - the ZPM Carter was talking about was tainted, with a powder that would amplify the explosion. In fact, in Trinity, Project Arcturus overloaded, and it destroyed a mere 5/6 of a solar system, and it was of a far grander scope than a normal ZPM...so the one we saw does make sense.
Posted by: kordone Jan 27th 2007, 3:45 AM
I thought the Puddle Jumper could fly right through the Atlantis shield. (I'm referring to Rising where in the first scene you see the Jumper flying through the shield to get to the city).
Posted by: KillerMarv Jan 27th 2007, 4:13 AM
I thought the Puddle Jumper could fly right through the Atlantis shield. (I'm referring to Rising where in the first scene you see the Jumper flying through the shield to get to the city).
We have seen not once, but a lot of times that anything we send through our own shield passes through it: missiles, weapons, F-302s... That is valid for every kind of shield we have encountered in the Stargate Universe. Why would it be different for Atlantis? They don't need to lower the shield, from the inside anything gets to the outside.
Posted by: cdpage Mar 21st 2007, 8:36 PM
One of the Best EP so far for sure!
good follow up to that last ep...sheesh
Again this really opens up the atlantis story. but having two Bad Guys and a 3rd possible on the way (Ori), things can get rather messy.
Posted by: Revan Mar 29th 2007, 11:43 PM
Again this really opens up the atlantis story. but having two Bad Guys and a 3rd possible on the way (Ori), things can get rather messy.
The Ori are most likely unaware of Pegasus.
Posted by: d1craig Apr 19th 2007, 6:23 AM
this is the type of wait i was expecting for a follow up to that crystal skull episode of sg1 (like a season or 2 then go back and visit it).
anyway i liked this episode. it was very good i just wonder how Reese came to be?
Posted by: Dafmeister Apr 19th 2007, 6:53 AM
Posted by: d1craig Apr 19th 2007, 7:17 AM
not once did i mention that is did have anything to do with it. i was saying after seeing the crystal skull i thiught it would be a season or 2 before we saw it again and we didnt.
so i was glad to see that they visited the race that made the virus instead of leaving it open forever
Posted by: thefirstone Apr 19th 2007, 12:29 PM
I liked this episode, it was a great introduction to the Asurans. Now that we have more enemies and no allies it kinda gives me mixed feeling about season 4.
Posted by: bostjan91 Aug 19th 2007, 2:20 PM
I didn't like the episode, in fact i don't like any episode wich includes replicators or Aurans (they are almost the same), i don't realy know why don't i like them, perhaps cause they could'nt kill them so simply.
Posted by: Uncle JTMAG1 Aug 19th 2007, 3:49 PM
I didn't like the episode, in fact i don't like any episode wich includes replicators or Aurans (they are almost the same), i don't realy know why don't i like them, perhaps cause they could'nt kill them so simply.
What good is introducing an enemy that could be killed easily?
Posted by: bostjan91 Aug 20th 2007, 2:26 AM
I didn't mean easily but more easy - just shot them or something, now if they meet them on any expedition, they can't defend themself.
P.S.: Couldn't they use the weapon on dakara
Posted by: KillerMarv Aug 20th 2007, 2:30 AM
I didn't mean easily but more easy - just shot them or something, now if they meet them on any expedition, they can't defend themself.
P.S.: Couldn't they use the weapon on dakara
Well, have you seen Counterstrike from SG-1's Season 10? If so... (gonna use spoiler tags)
And even before that, the weapon was controlled by Jaffa and it was the capital of their new born nation.
Besides, how would you bring an entire mountain to the Pegasus Galaxy?
Posted by: JTMAG1 Oct 8th 2007, 1:57 AM
I am watching this episode, and and I am wondering, why don't the Asurans have a sheild on thier gate when they know the Ancients want them dead.
And as far as I can remember, this is the first time that they had seen the those weapons. How did Ronan and John know how to shut them off as they ran into the Jumper?
Posted by: Dave312 Oct 8th 2007, 3:02 AM
I am watching this episode, and and I am wondering, why don't the Asurans have a sheild on thier gate when they know the Ancients want them dead.
Would it really have made a difference if they had a shield on their gate? The Ancients attacked by ship so it wouldn't have helped at all. But still they could have had a shield around their city. That would have made a difference. But most likely it would have been a surprise attack.
On second thought, its not like the Asurans could have defended themselves. They weren't allowed to fight back!
Posted by: Revan Oct 8th 2007, 4:49 PM
I am watching this episode, and and I am wondering, why don't the Asurans have a sheild on thier gate when they know the Ancients want them dead.
And as far as I can remember, this is the first time that they had seen the those weapons. How did Ronan and John know how to shut them off as they ran into the Jumper?
The Ancients thought the Asurans were all defeated and gone.
I am unsure what you are talking about. What weapons?
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