I agree about the that! the episode no matter what you say about it, did have some amazing sights. The army of orion class ships destroying an atlantis base city with weir just watching. VERY COOL! I didnt expect to see that kind of stuff till much later on. Good episode shame about the whole betray the naive replicator (havent seen that before).

The ancients (ascended ones) should definatly do something about this!!!!

This post has been edited by Ancient Kane: Aug 12th 2006, 4:11 PM

ok Asurans have no ships? they have to wait till they build a new city to attack atlantis?.

I somehow feel that they packed too much into this episode and once again referring SG-1 story arch which
is bad for new comers to this show!!.

Why do we have to make blast out of 3 ZPMs 1 would be more than enough!!. We could easily use 2 right?.

After watching this episode I was like WHAT!!, a sudden turn to Atlantis!!. Too much in a single episode.



The reference to ZPM that could blow out the whole solar system which is made in SG1 was laced with some explosive material to amplify the blast. While these are clean ZPMs.

I feel that this eps. was a bit flawed. If these replicators built their city like the other replicators did, then the ENTIRE city and everything in it wouldve been under their control.

which meant that the "pause" button would stopped everything, even the control room and the puddle jumpers.

this leads me to believe that the neo-replicators did not build the city of the ships out of their own breatherns.

also, i think they shouldve let niam give him a chance to try to convince oberon. that wouldve made 1 less enemy and a much better chance to destroy the wraith. i mean they should only use the pause AFTER they realized that convincing wasn't an option.

They were already on their way to Atlantis, the fight would have begun in a matter of minutes. Atlantis's two best defenders, McKay and Sheppard were on Asura. If they woud have waited, that would have surely been the end of our series.

I wonder if the Asurans and the Wraith have a live and let live attitude towards each other, since the Wraith can't really feed on the Asurans, and so the Asurans don't don't have to be concerned with them.

Maybe it wasn't just the Wraith that the Acients fled from, maybe it was the combined threat.

These replicators arent Replicators like in SG-1. They mention they have integrated organics, so A) they're not pure nanites, they're more like mega-nanite-enhanced humans than the human-form replicators from SG1, and B) their city and technology probably isnt all built out of replicator blocks either, its probably just a regular city like Atlantis. So that probably means they're not as powerful as the HFRs, as well as not being susceptible to the EMP-shockwave tech that the Asgard used. It probably also means they're not as tech-hungry as the MW/Ida replicators, since their drive is to destroy, not to assimilate new technology. Hell, we cant even say they're crion-based technology like Reese's reps. They're just another microscopic sentient von Neumann machine, the similarity ends there. Oh, and with the hand-in-the-head mind probe technique...

As for needing 3 ZPMs to blow the city....he was jury-rigging the overload on the fly, without much of a chance to disable safeties and such, so its probable to assume that, with full power, the city's structural integrity fields and the like would have dampened the explosion from just one or two enough that they couldnt be sure it would take it out entirely.

I was kinda disappointed....after Major Winchester pulled his hand out of Shep's head, I was really hoping they were going to resurrect the same Replicators from SG-1....like, they had fired off small capsules of the microscopic replicator blocks into galaxies to seed them with replicator life, one made it to Pegasus and made its way towards the best tech it could sense - the Asuran outpost, where the Reps assimilated the Ancient tech. Instead we get a watered-down, parallel-evolution version of the Replicators. But the exact same formula as in SG-1...the intractable, arrogant leader, and the weak, pliable lieutenant that gives them a way in.

Are we going to see the same sense of betrayal when they bring Niam down from orbit? Is he going to feel the humans betrayed him, just as the Ancients did so long ago, and swear vengeance upon them too?

It seems to me that Rodney would have realized that Niam would have survived the vacuum, and either fallen into a stable orbit around Atlantis (which they seem to imply he had) or burned up in the atmosphere. If they knew he was still alive up there, wouldnt they try to go back up in a jumper and reprogram him again to remove the rage, and brought him safely back like they intended? They seemed sincere enough in their desire to help him and not betray him to so callously leave him floating up in the frozen void.

This post has been edited by droid327: Aug 12th 2006, 6:11 PM

It's not so much they betrayed him as SG1 did to fifth. The whole hands around Weir's neck had a lot to do with it. He actually said that the other were reseting him and that it was too late.

i just got done watching Episode 13 - Hot Zone. now i was thinking. do you think that the thing in episode 13 has somthing to do with this episode.

Ok, it was a very very cool ep, two weeks in a row now. Very well done, especially the flashbacks. Yeah, a do over somewhat of the season six ep, but what are you going to do?

However, they've done a few things that were a common star trek mistake.

1. Our heroes are way too cocky with such a scary race. Badder then the human form replicators. Be a little scared. Be mortified that you've opened the gate and found them. Have a speech, "What have we DONE?" Daniel needs one of these after finding the ori and sicking them on the milky way galaxy.

2. These guys are too powerful. You see it a bit in the episode itself. Hope the writers have a good plan.

Yes. They said the nanites were orignally created to agressively destroy the Wraith. It is possible the Asurans were taking their revenge.

After thinking about it, here's my problem.

You have met a race of unimaginably powerful beings. You don't screw them. Niam offered to help. It's your only conceivable play, because if you piss em off you either get killed now or later. It's like Picard always getting pissy with Q.

You don't pull your standard sabotage and bust out, we're not talking about Genii here. And McKay goes over his plan, we're thinking they're not in a bugged room?

BTW, when atlantis was blowing up, they had me going. And when the guy had his hand in sheps skull, I was thinking OOOOOHHHH NOOOOO. Not these guys....

I did like how fatalistic Weir was at the end though. We are sooo screwed.... I think at that point I'd be evacuating atlantis.

This post has been edited by FreshPez: Aug 13th 2006, 1:08 AM

My original post said that I felt that the person that created Reese on SG1 was an ancient after watching this episode. Reese had said that her father created her in his image.

I just watched Progeny again. Now I'm thinking that the replicators were created by the ancients, first as nanites, as they said to defeat the Wraith. Niam said that they just progressed to the point that the Ancients wanted to destroy them because they couldn't control them. According to Niam they were unsuccessful. Obviously, a few suvived in order for them to rebuild.

My theory now is an Ancient didn't want to destroy what they had created. Their nanites that were created to help defeat the Wraith, evolved to a human form. The ancient wanted their "child" to survive. I'm thinking he took Reece with him to the planet so that she would survive. Unfortunately, due to the aggression aspect of their makeup, the people on that planet were destroyed. This is probably why Reece's father put her to sleep.

Very very cool episode.

First off, how unreal was the image of the Lantean Ships bombarding the planet.... now that’s what I've been wanting to see.

Now is it just me or is Weir a little bit of a shitty negotiator? She meets a race that are unbelievably powerful and she has the nerve to get ancey with them? Not smart by any standard.

My nitpick with this episode is the ZPM's blowing up. In Zero Hour (SG1 804) Carter said that the tainted ZPM was probably capable of blowing up an entire Solar System. But Rodney destroyed THREE ZPM's and the bang didn't seem all that impressive. I know it could be explained away as whatever the tainting material was, but it just didn't seem right.

Its too bad they couldn't keep Niam, all the information he knows about Ancient technology, its just a waste.

Besides the points you made, what is most different between these Replicators and the ones from SG1 is the base program. These Replicators want to emulate their creators, they built an entire civilization to that end. The Replicators from SG1 only want to Replicate.This is the defining episode for where did the Replicators come from originally. Weir said that a few nanites survived the attempted destruction.I like the theory, I speculated something similar in another thread. I don't think that Reece came back with the group from Atlantis though. I think that she would have been created by one of the Lanteans that was evolved with the original project, but her actual construction would have taken place in this galaxy. It might have been a Lantean that wanted to finish the research so they could go home.

This post has been edited by David_ofthe_Tar'e: Aug 13th 2006, 8:00 AM

yeah u pinned it urself..

"tainted"

it was tainted with a substance that was very volitile to energy, and just a spec of dust, destroyed the table..

but the 3 zpm's rodney overloaded,.. well they werent tainted, they were normal, as said a few pages earlier..

hence probably wouldnt hvae such a big bang, im sure if rodney knew how to taint em, it would have been a big bang like in trinity, and hed only need to use one, and take the other 2 as spare.. but alas... he had no way to taint them...

Way too much. It was superficial and sloppy, considering how much it expanded the Atlantis universe. I don't see they put much effort in the show any more. I see the producers clapping each others shoulders, saying "now we have done our Replicator story, one task more completed".

There are so many holes. Frankly, I don't think anything short of a two-parter would have been appropriate. What they did is not much beyond a SG-1 ripoff, the original element is missing. Naturally there have been many new introductions and explanations; so the advancement of the plot had to be pressed into a few minutes.

Many points have already been mentioned, let me do a summary...

• A ZPM going off should destroy a solar system. This is why the explosion should have occured in another solar system, not in orbit of the Atlantis planet. The puddle jumper also shouldn't have flown to Atlantis. Too dangerous: Microscopic blocks of Replicators could have separated from the jumper and started to infiltrate Atlantis.
• QUOTE
  You have met a race of unimaginably powerful beings. You don't screw them. Niam offered to help. It's your only conceivable play, because if you piss em off you either get killed now or later. It's like Picard always getting pissy with Q.
  
  You don't pull your standard sabotage and bust out, we're not talking about Genii here. And McKay goes over his plan, we're thinking they're not in a bugged room?
  
  Hell yeah. You meet an aggressive race that thrives on the idea of 'retribution' and what do you do? Right, you piss them off! It also makes no sense that the Asurans have no other means of attacking Atlantis. They should be able to built another Stargate in hours and gate to a planet near Atlantis. Think of the Tollans and Nox who easily devised a means of interstellar travel to take the Tollans to their new home world. A few Replicator blocks smuggled aboard Atlantis and they can start their destructive work.
  
  I can accept that the aggression code wasn't removed from their programming. But at least their aggression shouldn't be directed towards Atlantis... because they're simply too powerful. If the infiltration plan I mentioned wouldn't work, they could attach a hyperspace generator to a ZPM and send it as a bomb to the the Atlantis' solar system... or so... should be done in a couple of hours. The Wraith can't use such methods because they don't seem to have a power source nearly as powerful as a ZPM (they don't even have shields!), but the Asurans do.

The show has again lost a lot of credibility. It doesn't appear nearly as dense as SG-1.

This post has been edited by ted_simple: Aug 13th 2006, 12:04 PM

I think a replicator built Reece. I think he attempted to purge the agression from her operating code, and did a bad job of it. Well, or he got somebody else to do it, and they did a bad job of it.

Basically, I think whomever built Reece did a poor job of making her operating system. The Replicators in Pegasus were entirely mature and, while agressive, not emotionally childish. I think somebody tried to rewrite the system code and missed a few lines.

i seem to remember them establishing on the show already that shields cant be used in hyperspace?

am i imagining that, or did the writers just forget?

In SG-1 it's true that they say that Shields cannot be used in hyperspace but as this is Ancient technology then maybe they can be used?

That was not established in the show. They never really adressed that issue.



The Replicators could not use shields in hyperspace, because they were using all their power to go fast. Those replicators were fairly unadvanced. These are using advanced technology, they are not generating the power themselves.

amazing episode! seeing the city fly was SO cool i know this plotline is sort of a recycled one, but that doesnt really bother me. i loved when mckay was saying that he'd been tortured in ways to horrible to mention, and then ronon goes "what did they do?" and mckay responds "i SAID it was too horrible to mention!" lol

One thing I've always liked about O'Neill was his willingness to take action against threatening aliens and bad situations. Think of Threads, when finding out that the weapon at Takara has fallen into enemy hands, he says, "then we get the biggest nuke we can find and we toss it through the gate right NOW." I've always considered it a differentiator from star trek, they live in a dangerous galaxy fulled with far advanced hostile aliens, and they won't necessarily wait to be fired upon three times before responding.

As for the asurans, now that we've pissed them off, I'd be getting the tainted ZPM dropped into the solar system with the Daedalus. NOW. They're on a planet, they're contained, and they're the most terrifying enemy yet seen since the stargate was opened. You have a weapon that can blow up a solar system. Time to use it, not just sit on the balcony waiting for them to attack.

This post has been edited by FreshPez: Aug 13th 2006, 1:15 PM

I liked the show....I read this whole thread...I was totally surprised when I realized that we had a form of "replicated" beings.....

I loved the flying ship!

I must admit, though, I am left with a great deal of confusion and even more questions.

I agree, as some have said, that these are not simply "replicated" creatures....I do believe that they still have within them much of what made the Ancients who they are/were...this can always be a

"ghost in the machine" as it were....Niam was an example of the possibilities for both very good and very evil....

As for the Wraith....as others have said...while these the Ancients orginally intended to use technolgy to destroy the Wraith, the evolved "creation" that resulted, wound up with the instinct to destroy,

but also without a strong or clear reason to need to destroy the Wraith, since they, themselves....the at least partially-organice replicated beings, have no longer a need to destroy the Wraith since they are neither a feeding source for the Wraith...and,

As..replicated Ascended, they also have no need to "intervene" to help us....so

I ask..

What is really driving them, then??? Some wish to ascend as their creators could...yet others seem to have "evolved" into an entirely different entity, yet one that cannot entirely escape the creatures of their origin.

I don't know....I have loads of questions....they aren't simply h***-bent on replicating and destroying. I believe...or, at least, I hope that

....they are far more complex than we can see at present...and that within their own "society" which is present elsewhere....there are always

the rogues.....

There are shades of Orson Scott Card's work of books that have evolved from the Ender's Game short story and all of the ensuing books....the "hive mind" (Wraith...and now, replicators and partially-organic replicated Ancients)...Philotic engergy...or an energy that allows for instantaneous communication...God???

Lots of questions...I will have to watch this one again...and in light of the SG-1 shows, think about these developments....

This whole idea of "updating" immediately sent me back to the OSCard works, since "updating" was required on a regular basis in order for the
beings located on separate planets to be "current" with the state of the hivemind.

....just thinking out loud.

I did like the show.

t

All this talk about blowing up a tainted ZPM. It was boby trapped, they would have to try using it to blow it up. They couldn't just drop it off and let it blow.

I'm not sure about the Reese's creation, because she was a robot. They make it appear that she created the replicators. If she was by an Ancient, they wouldn't have been a problem, because we know the Ancients had the ability easily destroy the replicators.

Not a half bad episode! I wasn't completely thrilled with rehashing of some of the ideas from "Unnatural Selection", but liked the backstory of the origin of the Replicators, that the Ancients created them. I was bummed that the guy that helped them escape and destroy the ship was overriden and forced to go back to his original programming. But I guess any advance in our destruction of the Wraith will have to be our own, because any chance of an advanced civilization helping us has their ship destroyed, or something like that!

Furthermore he'd didnt look too happy...

I don't agree, why would the computer and technology be the same in that case? Rodney seem to be perfectly at ease with it. Why didnt the Jumper just not sit there if it were a replicator?


No, Reese behaved like a spoiled child. She wasnt violent as such, even if she displayed violence when "attacked".


I wonder whether there will be the same scenario as in the SG1 ep where a replicator block survives and takes over a russian sub. I mean, right the Asuran cityship was blown up, does that mean that individual elements cannot fall on the planet and start replicating? Of course the writer's point in using three ZPM might be to imply they were utterly destroyed.


For my remarks, first I loved the ep it was really neat! Then:
-The city ship, when I saw it from underneath I was thinking about Goa'uld motherships, especially because of the hole in the middle (like the pyramid landing hole on motherships), maybe a possible link?
-I wonder if Niamh being reset erased his will to ascend. At least the other two "women" might still be interested, which leaves a possibility of still helping them.
-Question, if the humans were to tell the Asurans that they are the evolution of the Atlanteans that returned to Earth (in a fashion), would they not be protected from the Asurans?