This is interesting. Thanks for the info. For some reason, I had the impression that MS had written at least one episode before. Don't know where that came from, but it was obviously wrong.

So this was his first attempt then. Well, that puts a slightly different light on it. He obviously doesn't have that much of a talent for writing scripts, as he seems to have realised himself from these comments. No shame in that. We can't all be writers. But it's a shame that the result was fans having to watch a pretty lacklustre episode, all the same.

But, again, for me, it wasn't a terrible episode. Just average and one that didn't engage me much. Certainly not the worst I've seen. (Disclosure still holds that record for me. <G>)

Albion

That's it!!!!!

I am NEVER reading spoilers again!!!
This would have been a pretty darn good episode had my thirst for SG1 info not led me to the spoiler sections. Grrrrrr. From the beginning the words "where are the clones, where are the clones" plagued my very being quashing all potential for suspense and intrigue. From now on I shall exercise restraint and shall overt my eyes from the temptations of the alluring spoiler. From this day forth I am spoiler free!

....and therefore shall enjoy SG1 the way it's meant to be enjoyed.

Can't wait for the next few eps


--------------------------------------------------
To Sci-Fi is not to geek but to Future Freak

Answer is here: http://www.cmzoo.org/

Hmm, mixed feelings about this episode. It was a good story line, but it definitely needed more episodes dedicated to it.

I thought the combination of Michael writing the ep and Amanda directing worked well. Big down side - no RDA.

This for me was average, good directing yadda yadda,storyline wore a bit thin near the end and could have had plenty more in it too really compete with other episodes!!
But the one thing that really did crack me up was the fact that in my weelly TV magazine under this episode it said with Richard Dean Anderson and he wasn't in in not even once!! or if you love him as i do, but i look at it positivily(sp) it means that hopefully he will be in The Lost City more since he had an episode off! *prays that this is true*7
Thats all folks!!

I think the writers wanted to write a boring episode instead of the other ones done for the season so far.

1. Michael Shanks wrote this episode, not the usual writers.

2. If anything the episodes written by the cast have been far better than those by the usual writers.

3. Just because you comment is short dont make the size bigger and put it in green.

I tend to agree, I specially like the CJ scripts... Those tend to being out Teal'c's better qualities and allows you to see a different side of him. Generically this looks to be a great episode.....I am suprised that it is not available for download yet......can't wait to see it.

I've posted the url of my site in the off topic/episode download section last week, where I've listed some sites who are offering downloads quite fast. Might want to check them out.

There says there is an error......

I agree with what most people have said. Techincally good ep, nothing special, good for ATs first directing gig (says she whos not intierly sure what directors actually do other than shout a lot), but just didnt really catch my interest, and it seemed to drag on a bit, maybe cause I knew what was coming Good to watch once, but not one I'm gunna put on repeat.

The last three episodes have been VERY low-budget, and it shows. Almost completely devoid of special effects (with the exception of the small battle during Hero's: Part 2, but I wouldn't really call that a full-out battle), no stargate, and even worse, no Richard Dean Anderson. This trend is going to be followed 10 fold in the next episode, Inaguration, which is, quite obviously, a dreaded clip show. What does this mean to me?

Means that they have such a big surplus of money, they probably poured it ALL into those last two episodes, which leads me to state six words:

I WANT TO SEE IT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's not the only thing, but it's certainly the most salient thing. The genocide of several millions and the murders of millions of others tend to leave a lasting "black mark" on a country's reputation. I just can't seem to casually dismiss these facts when Germany comes to mind, blame it on my "moral American upbringing."

Really? Have you heard about the stargate on the news lately? There is a reason why this show genre is called science fiction, you know.

It is a fact that many Nazi war criminals fled to South America and the Middle East after WWII to avoid punishment. So I can think of several reasons that would lead you to the above mode of thinking:
1) These escaped Nazis either couldn't or wouldn't have any children, hence no immoral sons. This possibility seems very improbable.
2) The Nazis turned out to be really ethical parents, and taught their children to value human life, the principles of equality, fraternity and etc. Therefore, their children couldn't possibly grow up to be like them. Somehow I don't think so....
3) you have information about the past and current activities of Nazi criminals' descendants.
4) you don't have any info on the war criminals or their progeny and simply don't want anything negative to be associated with the word "Germany."

I think the latter is the case.

Ahem, that prime real estate is in MY backyard, thank you very much! This episode was set in the middle of the Los Angeles Metropolitan area. Since Stargate is supposed to be set in current times, I think we could take just a little more interest in keeping that bomb from going off! I sort of felt that SG1 was just a little too nonchalant about that...I guess this happens a little too often for them to get too worried.

And thank you, Arcady, for pointing out that Los Angeles is NOT in Orange County. Wonder if that was Shanks' mistake or someone else's? For geographic clarity, Orange County neighbors Los Angeles County to the southeast -- and probably would have been affected had the bomb been as powerful as Sam estimated. I had to chuckle at the idea of them trying to evacuate all of L.A. County. We are talking about 9 1/2 million people!

Other than that, I did like the episode well enough after I got over the initial shock that they did not deal with anyone's grief over the outcome of the previous episode. Just business as usual. Definitely NOT in character, but then I understand that Shanks started writing this episode over a year ago, so the problem is in its placement more than anything else.

I am more than a little annoyed that if they were going to introduce Pete, they only chose to mention him again in the context of Agent Barrett asking Sam out. How odd that we didn't hear her telling her father about him or perhaps telling Emmett Bregman (film-maker in 717-18) that she was "seeing someone" to get him to stop prying about her relationship with Jack. Very strange.

I liked the genetic research angle of this episode. It figures that the ethically-challenged NID would try something like this to try to obtain the information they needed. I think the mention of some Nazi connection was completely unnecessary. As if the U.S. hasn't conducted plenty of its own unethical experiments over the years? Not to mention the completely overlooked American Eugenics program that was going strong at the same time that Germany was developing theirs (in fact, the leaders of the movements in both countries were colleagues and corresponded frequently). I'm glad that Stargate has mentioned Eugenics in at least 2 previous episodes.

I enjoyed AT's directing and MS's role in this. It it good to see Daniel in his morally indignant mode again. I also agree that we need more of Teal'c not just in this episode, but all episodes. Not to mention Jack!

yer i liked this one, that goa'uld bomb was pretty cool & it just had a great story, if you can believe it i didn't even notice that RDA wasn't in this episode untill afterwards & thought hey rd wasn't in that ep, i guess it's coz were used to seeing so little of rd in sg1 these days. A real shame he would have made that ep even better than it already was. But on another point their must be tons of undiscovered canobic jard with goa'uld symbiot in them around on earth still.

From my limited knowledge of LA Orange County is next to disneyland and is credited as being in LA as LA is about 80 differant cities all mixed together. I could draw a map but my drawing is not that good and i really can't be bothered

As aside note if anyone has already said this I do apologies MS had story credit for Evolution and wrote the treatment for that. Also I think he helped with Crystal skull but not sure how much though 719 was his first full script

It a nice frist try Shanks On the story But a better for dircteding form Amanda .. I hope ... we will see more dircteding form her .

Actually, from what I've been reading on other forums, that's only partly true, it seems, and I may owe MS a bit of an apology.

This seems to have been a committe episode in part. As I understand it, from comments MS apparently made at a convention, he pitched the original idea for this particular episode to the writers. At that point it was much more complex in plotting. As time went by, several of the ideas he'd come up with were hived off and used in other episodes - giving him due screen credit. So this episode was basically shorn of a lot of its elements and by the time it got to the script stage it was down to the basics.

MS's script was then worked on by various staff writers, so although MS is the only one credited on screen, it was a joint/group effort this one it seems.

That, of course, is a fairly standard practice in TV writing and not at all unusual and from what I gather MS certainly had no complaints about the process.

But it does seem that the episode that we saw on screen was a bit of a dog's dinner by the time it reached the screen and that MS isn't to blame for a lot of that. Which is a real shame when it's his first attempt and only his name is on the screen credited as being responsible for it in its entirety.

I'd actually like to see him get another chance now - let us see what he could come up with under the best of circumstances rather than the worst. He certainly seems to have good ideas. Whether he can translate those into a good script is something this episode doesn't seem to have allowed him to establish.

Albion

How little are we actually going to see RDA on the later episodes and the next season? 5, 10 minutes screen time?

That's what I was thinking too, as well as the aforementioned X-Files, Silence of the Lambs stuff. It was a good script, production-wise, for AT to get her directing debut on since there was very little tech/action, but the lighting (or lack thereof) must've been quite a challenge.

The story itself was a very basic, a by-the-numbers-type of script. Once you get past the intros it was:

1. Teal'c and Lee (nice to see him, btw) at the bomb.
2. Daniel and Anna
3. Carter, evil scientist, and Barrett.

I had problems with the scientist with being so obviously repulsive, and the only conclusion I can make why this choice was made was to show there were two versions of evil in this ep...the scientist and the goa'uld personality inside Anna. One is obvious, the other is hidden, both just as bad. I think it would've been more interesting if this guy had been brilliant and likable, yet still twisted in his logic about his motivations because then there would've been the opportunity by Carter and Barrett to be influenced by what he says. Let's face it, its harder to dismiss someone's darker motivations if that person doesn't look so dark.

The other problem I had was with the interaction between Daniel and Anna. It was too easy to just leave them cut off from each other with the cell walls seperating them. By doing so, there was no personal jeapardy for Daniel at stake. No tension.

If, on the other hand, Anna had wanted him inside the cell to talk to her as a measure of his trust, then the stakes would've been considerably higher because we had already seen what would happen if the other personality came out, and Daniel literally would've had his own life in his hands, trusting only his wits and compassion that he could save her and figure out how to get the info to disarm the bomb.

Sorry, but I didn't like this episode much at all.
Yeah, Daniel was great and so was Sam, but.....

Where the <expletive deleted> is the Stargate?!?!?!? I mean for <expletive deleted>, the show is NAMED after the <expletive deleted> thing! And it's been getting less and less attention in Season 7 and quite frankly it's <expletive deleted> annoying me.
Let's have the team actually use what the show is named after instead of turning this into an <expletive deleted> EARTH BASED show. I mean <expletive deleted> <expletive deleted>, should we just rename it to "The TAURI - Adventures and Exploits of a civilian, scientist, and warrior in the military!"?
The next ep is soooo going to be a <expletive deleted> bomb, because it won't use the Stargate for SURE, and its a <expletive deleted> clip ep. I mean come on......
In this episode, I don't think the word Stargate was even uttered.....Sigh.....

Also, my opinion on RDA still stands: If Stargate is so ruining his life (despite him getting more leeway than anyone else) to the point where he can't even function, then he should just leave. I'm sorry, but if he continues to whine and whine and whine, then he should just say goodbye and go away because he really is bringing the quality of the series down.
Big thumbs down to RDA!

This post has been edited by SlavsyaRossiya: Feb 19th 2004, 2:36 PM

He goes away, so does the show...just so ya know.

Also, I think that the weaker episodes have bigger problems than not showing the gate. If memory serves, the gate hasn't been used in a number of eps which were still fairly solid efforts. Frozen is one that comes to mind....

....wait a sec, that one was like the X-Files too, wasn't it? That episode where Mulder and Scully were stuck with those researchers...oh yeah, it was called Ice.

Ice, Frozen...hmm...my humble brain sees a slight correlation situation.

I honestly don't mind if the gate isn't used as long as its a good story. Let's face it, there are episodes where the gate is used plenty and the episode still s*cks.

[Q] He goes away, so does the show...just so ya know.[/Q]

But he's already gone in almost every way that counts.
He's not in most episodes for long, and when he's there it isn't jack whos there.

And yeah, I've noticed Stargate is trying to be an X-Files.....I'd prefer it to be Stargate.

Thanks a lot for your viewpoint, I appreciate that. We discussed a novel at university today, recognized totalitarian thinking/behaviour in one of the characters and compared it to Islamistic fundamentalism as well as to people who place their career before everything else. I realized that I was probably the only one who instantly thought of the Nazis, or better said of the idea they stand for.

I think that's just the point. The sg-1 writers have to "borrow" ideas for their show, and that's only natural, letting Kevlar be a Nazi son has a certain point.

I guess I got a little angry while watching the show:
"We think it came from the Germans." My country is mentioned for the first time! Hooray!
"Kevlar is the son of a Nazi war criminal." And it's explained for everyone who doesn't know it ;-(
"Now that makes sense." Yes of course, Germany -> Nazi. That makes sense!
Just wanted to give you my thoughts, I know I had a special (and not neccessarily fair) point of view on this dialogue.

But I still think it's literature. I'm not trying to make an excuse for the atrocities the Nazis did at all, don't understand me wrong, but I do think it's part of the past and the main connection to the present is that those events should be remembered. We can be glad they are over. Totalitarism has other faces today.
And I fear that many viewers will see this episode and think it's "plausible"/near to reality. Just because it's a vivid idea doesn't mean it's actually probable that such a person as Kevlar must be the son of a war criminal.

You want to talk about facts, you ask me what I know about the descendants of those people... it seems you want to ask me: Couldn't such a person exist!? You know, that's the wrong question. Yes, he could exist! It's always the same with those yes/no-questions. But shouldn't we look at modern societies and ask ourselves what significant forces there are really today? What kind of people could possible really act immoral nowadays?

This post has been edited by ted_simple: Feb 19th 2004, 6:44 PM