Episode 18 - Heroes (Part Two)
Air Date: (UK) February 10, 2004
Air Date: (US) Feburary 20, 2004

Stargate Command comes under investigation after an off-world rescue mission goes terribly wrong.

Guest Starring: Adam Baldwin as Colonel Dixon, Saul Rubinek as Emmett Bregman, Robert Picardo as Agent Woolsey.

(Part 2 of 2.)

Credits | Spoilers | Teaser

As of last week I was soooo looking forward to this episode, but now that I have seen it, I wish I hadn?t.
Started off very spectacular, one of the best battle scenes I have seen in a long time. A lot of CG which was incorporated nicely.
Then when Sam came down the corridor crying, I knew that the episode was going to be very sad. Although they avoided the fact Janet died and left u wondering whether it was Colonel O?Neill was just shameful. They can?t do that to u?.it builds up suspense for the wrong reasons.
When the video came on of how Janet died I didn?t think it looked too bad, it looked instantaneous. Nice to know that he wasn?t going to use the video but nicely said by Daniel, ?She gave more, More than I gave back? Very touching.
I thought it was nice how Teal?c was able to finally show his emotions through words instead of facial emotions. Nice speech at the end which Janet deserved of all the lives she had saved.
I liked the fact they called the child ?Janet?.

Episode gets a 9/10 for me.

Looking ahead I am not looking forward to Inauguration in 2 weeks, smart ass Woolsey working for Kinsey.
The added ?shipper? scene within Heroes Part 2 was also incorporated nicely.
I just want to know, where will Cassy go now? Foster home or to Sam?

Can?t believe theres only 4 episodes left?.can?t wait to see The Lost City.


By the way Ronny Cox wasn't in it...

Well, what can I say?

Of all the types of episode we get - we very rarely get an almost purely emotional episode.
True there was a fight scene - but that was very short - but very good mind you.

Personally - I believe it was a fitting departure for Doc Frasier - much better than the one given for Daniel during series 1 - even though he wasn't dead of course.

There was a point where I went off the reporter (forgive me for not remembering his name) - where he was ranting on about "doing his duty" - but, like everyone else, he grew on me.

Unlike Woolsey - but its good to see a new 'nasty' guy to replace Simmonds after his 'ejection' as it were.

ps. It was so obvious about Simon's kid - as he was lying there when he mentioned his son - it occured to me that it wasn't going to be a boy - and that he was going to end up calling it Janet. But it was nice anyway. Good episode though - very good - in my opinion

Fantastic episode 10/10!

Kinda overwhleming and a tear-jerker (just a tiny bit)

The way Fraiser died, it was so sudden, I felt Carter's pain, especially when Carter thought Jack was going to die, but you know the scene where Carter goes - "Sir, when you were hit and I thought..." and she started to cry, and Jack goes "Come here", I thought they were kinda peck on the cheek, but they hugged instead.

The Film guy, he was a right ol' and so was the NID agent guy, he got on my nerves, but glad to see he buzzed off, and the film guy realises that Stargate is more than TV news but more of a importance of a front line which men and woman die for the world.

Fitting memoral and Teal'c the big softie! Since I don't really know what else to say, still feel pretty sad, but Fraiser will be missed and will Teryl Rothery herself!

Well, I cried.

I have to say that if I'd come to this episode without knowing anything about it, it would have been almost unbearable to watch. And even knowing that O'Neill no way, no how was going to be dead by the end of it, I was still nervous. I wasn't sure about the method used to tell this episode at first, but I think it worked in the end and produced a very tense dramatic story.

I was surprised that they managed to get some moments of humour into this one, which were very welcome. But this was a great episode with some beautifully worked moments of character relationship in it.

I found the ad breaks very intrusive! Am looking forward to seeing this as a complete two hour episode on DVD eventually, without the distractions.

It was a surprise that Wells survived. The poignancy of them naming the baby Janet and Emmett finally getting his O'Neill interview at the end - and from a much more respectful O'Neill at that - was very well done. I think that last scene choked me up more than anything else.

Thought for a moment O'Neill was going to just stand there doing zip when Sam broke down - if he hadn't hugged her I'd have had to kill him. <g>

But lots of really good moments in here - from Daniel and Emmett especially.

No doubt I'll recall other observations once it's sunk in, but for the moment I'm left feeling snuffly, but knowing I've just watched one darn good episode.


Albion

This post has been edited by Albion: Feb 10th 2004, 4:34 PM

I enjoyed tonights episode. I had wondered how they'd make the transition between the light-heartedness of last week to the more sombre story tonight and I think they made a reasonably good job of it.
I was surprised at the "who's died? is it Jack?" slant. It just didn't seem to sit well. The writers should have known that most gaters would know it was Janet and not Jack, maybe they should have just cut to the chase instead of trying to be clever?
The memorial was handled well, not too much soppiness and I liked it at the end when Jack had to give the interview though, a nice touch.

OMG

I only saw the second half of the ep and it had me in tears.

I thpought it was excellent - It's not very often I cry at an ep

oh, well.... Off to see the begining

This episode was nothing like what I expected it to be and I do not imply that in a good way. It?s somewhat unusual for me to have so much to criticize in a new episode but there are a lot of problems in this episode. That?s not to say that it was all bad but it was definitely a serious let down.

The first and most painfully obvious problem was the directing, most particularly in the action scenes. This would have been an even greater problem had there been much action to speak of. After last week, I was expecting an all guns blazing fire fight but, much to my disappointment, it did not happen. In what little action we did see the ?cuts? in particular were very bad. It just did not feel?..real, if you know what I mean. It felt sloppy and careless, as has happened a few times already this season, e.g. using the P-90 sound for the MP-5. This was not only a problem during the action sequences though. Although it was less obvious it was still there. Things such as cutting Col. O?Neill?s interview, not even listening to the Memorial and the interviews with the NID guy were all done very badly.

That in itself would have been enough for the episode to attain a black mark in my book but that was not all. The way that a major character, someone who has been in the series from the very beginning, was dispatched so callously really infuriated me. It was just so cold and heartless! I can appreciate that they were trying to build suspense by trying to make you think that Jack was the one who had died but come on! They shouldn?t be doing that, its not right. Also, for her to die on camera was just?evil. I wasn?t even a Janet lover but that?s just not right. She only got about 10 seconds of time in her farewell show and that is something else that really (recurring) infuriates me. The ?Memorial Service? was also very cold-hearted. I seem to remember a much warmer Memorial Service for Daniel in Fire and Water, and he wasn't even dead!

There was the occasional good moment as well. I enjoyed it when Emmet saw ?that? video. He had fought very hard to get at it but when it showed someone that he cared about dying, he couldn?t handle it. That was one of the only parts which kept the episode afloat in my opinion.

Overall I was very disappointed with it and it gets 4/10 from me. I hope that next week?s ep. will be better.

I agree with this... I felt that the action scenes lacked something, although cant put my finger on it.

I disagree completely. I think you are missing the point. It wasnt what O'Neill was going to say, it was that he did it after avoiding them with no sarcastic remarks. With it being left without hearing it is a great move. No matter what he said would make up for the loss of Janet, and therefore it would of been cheap of the writers to try and convey this on screen. It leaves you with your own thoughts of Janet and how you want to remember her.

As for the memorial, you heard all you needed to. It would of been bad directing and editing to just have Carter stood their reading a long list of names. It got the message across... words cant explain their loss... but by reading out the names, it shows what a major part Janet played in their lives.

I agree with this. I dont understand why they did this, when it would be obvious to anyone that it wouldnt be Jack. He's advertised for next weeks show for Gods sake.

No it wasnt. What the hell are you talking about! It showed her doing her job, risking her own life to save another and ultimatly dieing to save another. You see what sacrifices they made. If they had just said.. hey this is how she died... it would of been terrible. Did you completely miss the Vietnam photographer story in their.

All I can say I agree with some of your points, but I would hate for you to of directed the show (no offence).

Very good ep!!!

Really liked this... Although I thought i knew janet was going 2 die, i was still worried that i was wrong and jack was going to snuff it! but i remebered that he said he was going to be in the pilot for 'that show' very nice ending with dj and the teddy bear.

I just finished watching it, the only ep I've had tears over (and for me thats an accomplishment). Even though I knew that she was going to die, I was still shocked. I thought the suspense over who'd died was great, as in it kept you in suspense for so long, and I like that.

and there were some really sweet moments between all the characters. I thought the bit with the name call at the end was great, realy poinent, but most probably think it was sappy. Has to be one of my fave eps. really different to pt1.

RIP

** from me
one of the worst ive seen, bit better than grace but not far off


for one things, Who hires these sh_tty directors anyway?
what im saying is those action scenes at the start were complete crap, and anything from the last six seasons is much better. i hate the sped up and muffled sound, and i could care less if we feel what they are feeling, i mean i dont want time wasted with bad cameras when they could just steady cam it all and make it smooth. i HATE jerky camera. and the part where Fraiser dies isnt too good anyway. what a BAD end for a GREAT character.
special effects were good as always, but you could have made them more prominant in the battle. but thats a minor niggle.
the battle scences were rather bad as you couldnt see hardly any of the jaffa, which i consider a bad thing. i like seeing the amounts of jaffa which would have added more atmoshphere to the fight. seeing the death gliders and alkesh was a nice thing to see. so that gets a plus

why couldnt fraiser be in this much more, she was one of the greatest characters, and to kill her off in that way, with hardly any scene it is just bad.


during the end i felt no emotion near the end and i didnt really care what was said
liked to see bob picardo, great actor, but i wish john de lancie was still in this.
i didnt like it when jack got hit becasue i knew he was going to be alright. nothing spectactular. and again back to bad directing.

this had potential to be so much more than what it was.
GET DECENT DIRECTORS then i would have enjoyed this episode so much more than i did.

this episode would have more of an impact if the spoilers werent plastered everwhere you went. i liked last weeks ENT than this (strategem) and that is saying something

one of the redeeming things was that Redshirt of the week didnt die, liked that part about the episode.


oh yeah
RIP Rest in Pieces

This post has been edited by Raxor: Feb 10th 2004, 5:24 PM

It would certainly have spoiled the moment for me if we had seen Jack's interview. The poignancy of the moment was in not knowing what he said and having it fade out when it did. The point of the moment was that he had agreed to do the interview and that he had obviously found a new respect for Emmett and for the project. What he said was really irrelevent to that and not showing what he said added to the impact of the scene and made it much more touching than if we'd continued beyond that point.

Re the action scenes - these aren't especially what attract me to the show, beyond that they're often a vehicle for some good interaction between the characters, which does - so I didn't think they were terrible. It did irk me just a little bit by using the 'Saving Private Ryan' silence after Jack got hit. Which I thought was a little heavy handed. But that was a very minor point for me.


Albion

This post has been edited by Albion: Feb 10th 2004, 5:31 PM

Rax I agree with you on the first action sequence, and the distinct lack of Janet over both parts.

But I think the point of Fraisers end is that it was supposed to be sudden and shocking. I knew it was coming and I was still taken aback. I think thats what they were going for. But I think her lack was mainly because she was dead for half the ep. This could have been a factor. Should of had more of her in part 1.

I think this is a love or hate ep.

I wasnt shocked at all
i might be a little if i hadnt read spoilers. but after being amazed my last week ent its gonna be pretty hard to do again

Me too. At the start I was thinking "yeah, you're starting to annoy now." but I have to say it played out nicely in the end and I liked that everyone kind of came round to his way of thinking.

That's all well and good to say but not everyone has the internet (which is where spoilers tend to circulate most) and even so some people still actually manage to stay spoiler free. I suspect that when this was filmed the idea was that the whole "who dies?" thing was meant to be a bit of a shocker, hence why no majorly big build up of Janets character and all. Yeah so it's fair to say it was never likely to be Jack but the suspense of wondering what exactly did happen would have added to the episode. Personally I think it was spoilt for me by knowing who it was because it sucked all the intrigue out of that middle section. I can't hold the writers responsible for that though because I chose to be spoilt, I'd be interested to hear the views of someone who wasn't.

Overall I thought this was a top episode. I agree with them when they say this is some of their best work ever. Definitely some of the best acting I've seen in a long time all round and a great little tribute to the real life heroes out there.
The battle scene was a little short and I thought that when they were doing their interogations with Robert Pircardo that we might get to see more of what went on in flashback but we didn't. Talking about the interogations, I loved the way they cut it between the team members...probably the oldest trick in the book but still good.

What's happened to Sam though? She's turned into an emotional wreck just lately. It's great because it really gives AT a chance to stretch her acting wings a bit but it seems very un-Samlike to me. I can understand it though. Battle shocked having lost her friend and almost lost her CO *coughmanshelovescough* it was probably the right reaction from her.
Interesting to see how they all reacted to grief differently. Sam grew weepy and needy, Teal'c turned creative and Daniel pulling away from the others and trying to find meaning for what happened...sitting there in the corner of the infirmary made me just turn to mush... that was the moment the tear threatened (I didn't cry though becuase ultimately I'm too much of a cold hard bitch to get wound up by a TV show).

Mostly I loved that they ended it on a high. Yes it was a tear jerker (almost) but it ended positively with Brigman making his film something worthwhile, the acknowledgement of the lives Janet saved and the birth of a child reminding us that life goes on. And Jack finally giving his interview with quiet dignity was the perfect place to fade out.

I have very mixed feelings about this episode. Part 1 was a pile of pants and on one hand i dont believe the second half was much better, on the other hand i think its an episode that will grow on me in time.

Unlike some, i thought the battle scenes were well done. The muffled sound, slow motion to normal/speed up, added a certain amount of drama and impact on the audience. I also thought the interview with the camera panning around showing Sam, Daniel and Teal'c at different stages in their interviews was well done too.

If i had not read the spoilers for this episode, i think i would have enjoyed it a lot more. I liked the fact they kept you guessing until about half way through the ep as to who died. If i had not read the spoilers, i would have sworn it would have been the other guy that died, not janet.

I have to say, once again, excellent acting by AT. Before this season, i never really thought of her as a good actress, more of an average one, but after watching this ep and others of season 7, my opinion of her is rapidly changing.

For an 'exit episode', Janet wasnt in it much was she?

If theres one thing i have learnt from watching this episode, its not to read spoilers. I believe my disappointment in this ep was largely due to the fact that i knew who was going to die, and practically every major thing about the ep from reading the spoilers. I would have enjoyed this episode a lot more if i didnt know what was going to happen. Some of you have been complaining about the suspense in wondering who died... Jack?... the other guy?... Janet?.... well i think the only reason that this was stupid to some, is because you knew who was going to die in the first place. This episode was very suspensefull and dramatic, but most of that is lost to us because we already know what is going to happen. In some episodes, this isnt a problem, and we can enjoy it even if we do know whats going to happen. But in an episode like this, suspense is the key, and by already knowing what is going to happen, it spoils it too much. I wont be reading any more of the spoilers for Season 8, i dont want to be disappointed to this extent by any other major things like this again.

Although this ep. wasn't a usual SG style ep i thought it was really good and v emotional. The whole 'Jack dying' thing i thought was a bit obvious that he hadnt but then wen i watched it with my mum again (who doesn't go online or anything) she was practically in tears from the moment Jack got shot and had no idea it was going to be janet, so i think the only reason it seemed obvious to me was coz i read spoilers and go online so know about things like SG Atlantis and RDA being in the pilot ep. However even tho i knew he wasn't going to die it did kinda make u think bout the fact that it cud hav been him that died and i got bit teary over that (aspec after the carter scene)

Really liked the bits with Daniel in this ep, the stuff with the tape etc. was great and when the reporter saw the tape it was really moving. Thought Cassie could have been at the memorial service, and although they mentioned her hope they don't just brush over what happened to her.

Very little Teal'c, but actually thought that gd just coz tis really strange to see him acting emotional so prob better to leave it to imagination. (tho scene with him very cute, and so was his speech thing)

Great acting from AT when she was telling O'Neill she was glad he was alive etc. i had a tearful moment then. O'Neill always seems to get out of these akward moments with a 'Come here' and a hug, but twas a ncie scene and liked the way all the characters looked after each other (scene with Gen H and Carter cute too)

Thought there cud have been bit more action, even tho i not an action person and the scenes with Rob P seemed a bit random but i think its going somewhere in another ep so that ok

How predictable was the baby name! it should hav been a boy called Fraiser but hey guess was kinda cute

Oh yeh, and a few more lines for Chevron Guy! moving up in the world

Have to admit, I really enjoyed this episode. I think the main reason was, it was different to the others... basically the way they approached it with the filming. Reminds how they filmed "Black Hawk Down" more real, imo.

In this episode you had action, sadness and shipping, all what you want from an episode. I did like the way they kept you thinking who died, though... was a little obvious it wasn't RDA but made you think who it could be, didn't help that i knew who it was.

Anyway, great episode (10/10)... just need more like it tbh!

This post has been edited by Graham: Feb 10th 2004, 7:25 PM

Just downloaded it (don't have Sky here at University) it was a really sad episode I only found out who died about two days ago, I wish I hadn't now, it would have been so much better if I hadn't

Still a very good episode, not sure about it being the best they've done as many of the cast have said.

Teal'c emotions coming out was a good touch, a warrior as strong and emotionless as a Jaffa showing his feelings and writing a speech, it shows just how over the years bot Teal'c character and Janets have evolved and how close they became

I really wish it hadn't been spoiled for me.

I still had to wonder though. My friend and I watched the first half or so before getting dinner, and we guessed that Jack was probably wearing the new armor. I was wondering if both Janet and Jack had died though.

I don't believe the memorial service could have been much better, I just wished we had heard a couple more names. I also got quite close to crying when I heard the baby's name, even though I could see it coming. I also agree that we should have seen more of Janet, although she did well in the last episode.

I also like the lack of focus on the battle; I think putting more could have been inappropriate.

Is there any truth to the story the film guy told about mark somethingorother? I couldn't get his name to look it up. I thought it was really effective, and all of a sudden, I could see that this guy was quite a bit better than we had been led to believe.

*teryl_brat42 stumbles into the thread with unshed tears in her eyes. for once in her life, she has nothing to say. she bows her head in a moment of silence for the fallen Hero: Janet Fraiser. *

******************************************************************

I honestly have no words to describe this episode other than not good enough for a send out of that magnitude. I now understand why Teryl was upset about being written out of the show. This episode did NOT do her justice. I did, however, love the reactions of the people closest to her. Sam was just as I suspected, crushed by the loss of her best friend. Teal'c was as stoic as ever, but did allow some emotion to show. Hammond was bottling up his emotions, like I thought he would and projecting them as anger towards the IDIOT documentary guy. Then there was Daniel. Poor guy, I really felt for him, especially the scene in the infirmary where he insists the tape be used. I had hoped for a better memorial scene, but seeing how it played into the film, I guess it could have been worse (though not by much). I cried my heart out during this episode, and it does receive a 10 on the emotion scale, but a lousy 5 on the overall scale. The only reason it does not get a 0 is because Janet WAS in it (automatic minimum of 5). I know that this is supposed to be not just about her, but about all the fallen men and women of our armed forces around the world, but it still feels like she deserved more attention.

I would like to state for the record that I KNOW this is just a TV show. Regardless, I bawled like a freaking baby!

For lack of a better term, losing a good character in a show sucks.

The battle scene was one of the best that we have seen in awhile. The on field action makes for a great listening experience when I'm able to see a cleaner version in surround sound. I see this as a 'turning the corner' episode, which sets the tone for the rest of the season and quite possibly the rest of the series. I just hope this isn't a 'jumping the shark' episode.

I liked how things turned around quickly enough that the journalist became somewhat of an alley to the SGC. Throwing in the NID angle was good. As a viewer there is some anger that needs to be channeled and the NID character was the prime lightning rod.

Seems like the SGC has been taking a beating the past few episodes. Their alliance with the Tok'ra and rebel Jaffa is in jepordy, unable to successfully take out Anbuis' new army, just slow them down. . . Carter getting a boyfriend. (<----Comic relief people).

I'd say SG-1 is long overdue to kick some serious azz.

Er...She just got an episode devoted to her.

Exactly! I was expecting to see her die and fall and bleed and such, but instead I only got that small little snippet....My heart skipped a beat because I just wasn't expecting a Jaffa to just shoot and and that be the end of it. It really was more dramatic that way IMO.

Well then obviously you wouldn't like this ep. This is a purely emotional ep, not an action one, so......

First off, one small little rant....I've noticed that for the past few episodes, a ton of people have been saying "That didn't even have suspense! Its SO obvious x and y and z was going to happen!"
I'm really getting sick of it. I mean, it's pretty obvious to me why these people haven't quite got the suspense factor that others have....THEY READ THE SPOILERS! If you KNOW whats going to happen, and you know HOW it happens and WHY it happens and you generally know everything about it, then your not quite going to be surprised when (OMG!) ****IT HAPPENS****. It's REALLY annoying watching people whine about it being so obvious when they've practically read the script.
I'm done now.

Moving on....I thought this episode was great. Great acting from everyone all around (except jack...But since he didn't actually do much acting, he doesn't count). I thought that the not seeing Janet thing was actually good, because it gives you more time to reflect on her and her loss.
This episode is kind of like....Going outside on a chilly night, and just feeling the cold air all around you and realizing it's actually real and how your alive....That's just the general feeling the episode gave me.
The combat scene was OK, but I don't watch Stargate for it's combat scenes, so....(I usually just fast foward through them).
I liked seeing all the reactions from all the people. I liked how Carter was crying her eyes out, and how Hammond was being the brave general and keeping his emotions bottled up (Though finally letting them out) and how Daniel was internalizing it all...Especially that scene where he tells Emit to use the tape
Tealc was also good during the brief time he was there. He looked like he was about to break up in tears !!!!!!
Jack really disappointed me though. He kind of just was...there. It didn't look like he was showing any emotion at all. I mean, it didn't look like Daniel was either, but you could tell he was. He was showing a ton of it, just not as upfront as Sam. Jack just looked like he couldn't care either way.
I also liked Emit and how he became a "good guy" at the end.
That....guy that Picardo played really annoyed me. I was practically shouting at the TV for Hammond to use Emit to put Picardo in a negative light, almost like a "How dare he even do this!" type way. Bah!!!! But he was good too, for what he did (I especially liked the "putting a price" On the members of the SGC. That really made him seem cold)
I also liked the NID-Kinsey twist they put in there. It just makes so much sense, especially sihnce....well.....
And yeah, SG1 has been taking a beating. I kind of like it personaly....They aren't the superpeople that they usually are, and thats good.
I mean, I want to say it makes them seem more human but they already are....it makes them seem more real, like *I* could be them. Though I never could
Anyway, I really liked this ep. Clear 10/10 for me.