Episode 15 - Before I Sleep
Air Dates - Canada: Dec 6 2004, UK: Jan 25 2005, US: Feb 18 2005

A woman is found in suspended animation in Atlantis, and the team is shocked to see that it is Dr. Weir herself, who tells them of her trip 10,000 years into the city's past.

Episode Guide | Spoilers | Teaser

(This topic is for people who have seen the episode to discuss it. If you don't want to be spoiled, don't read this topic.)

I really enjoyed the episode. This was the first time I didn't completley hate Weir. And the references to "Back to the Future" were very welcome and hilarious to me (especially considering some stuff that has been going on within other locations on the forum...) and it wasn't even a ripoff, like some M&M episode would have been.

It was also nice to see them work in some scenes from the first episode, but slightly different. I wonder if they filmed them at that time, or went back and redid it. It looked like all of Sumner's lines were the same, so I bet they just replicated the scenes and stuck in some existing footage.

Anyway, another top-notch episode in my opinion. I'm really enjoying Atlantis much more than I thought I would.

I second the motion. This ep rocked my socks off! It answered question on how things happen, it was well put together. The WHOLE time I was on the edge of my seat. And now it's opened up a possibilities for future eps that just excites me so much! I really liked weir for the first time EVER! *Contemplated allowing her not to die....*gasp*

my one complaint...the very end, the backdrops were not very realistic.

other than that, GREAT ep. So excited for the rest of season, it should never end! *votes to give SG1's budget to atlantis*

Normally I spend some time with a Photoshop manip, but try this one...

Indeed it was a good episode.

I thought it would be more along the lines of... "adequate" however it was a great episode.

Too bad most of those ZPMs will most likely be dead (after 10000 years).

Answers some questions, and reassures some points. One point is that the Wraith really did/were destroying the ancients. (I can't remember if this was actually mentioned or not in the series... but this just reassured me.)

That gives me an even bigger desire to see the 2 part finale, in a hope that our plan goes well.

I third the motion.

Great episode!
I was concerned that being a time travel episode they would screw it up, but luckily they didn't and instead pulled it off wonderfully.

Although the nitpicker in me is feeling a little squirmish as it kind of contradicts an episode of SG1 involving time travel as well as not explaining why all the Ancients are all speaking English instead of Ancient!
LOL, they could have at least shown them giving Dr Weir a translator or something before they started speaking.

But that stuff's material for another forum, and not that important anyway.

One thing I think that was missing from the episode that would have made it even better, was showing the transport ship being taken out. It would have made it more emotionally moving to see the people that were about to die as well as being extremely cool looking! I wanted to know what their transport ships looked like.

Best episode of Atlantis so far.

[edit] Forgot to mention that the Back to the Future references were great too! Love those movies. Janus's ship has a flux capacitor! That had me laughing pretty intensly.

This post has been edited by GuNdj: Dec 7th 2004, 4:56 AM

very nicely done episode and does a great job in answering questions we all had

the ancients had other ships beside the puddle jumper(warships and large transports), why they were losing the war(it was because of the wraith's superior numbers afterall), if they built any outposts in peg(there were at least 5, well 5 that should have zpms), even tells us who put the dust covers on the consoles(weir the neat freak, ^^), it also puts to bed the confusion some ppl had about when the ancients ascended(after they had left atlantis, presumablely when they were on earth)

but i'm puzzled by why the ancients were still transporting ppl from others planets even though they have been under seige for years, shouldn't they be done with that already and all their ppl safely on atlantis once they started losing the war? and why didnt they use the gate to get to atlantis instead of charging through the wraith blockade(although its possible that the wraith control the gate on whatever planet the last transport was fleeing from, they can build a new gate with ease, orlin did it and with common stuff to boot)?

would be nice if you said what the spoiler was about anyway...


it was a great episode and it was good to see the ancients. i dont hate weir as much but still a litte. comedy between mkay and sheppard was great. 4 star ep from me...

This episode was soo good, so moving, and yes, so touching, I think im gonna watch it again! and again and again, [even though i have finals in 6 hours]. Anyways, there are things that they didn't show, some people suggested, that they should have shown that the puddle jumper had blown up, or getting destroyed. Well, that would mean that they would actually destroy the puddle jumper that they ONLY have. I am assuming they only have one, because there's no need for two. Obviously . They have more on stock, but u've never seen 2 puddle jumpers flying together. Even in the storm, there were 2 puddle jumpers, but, they were never on screen together!

As for the language, yes, it might be a loop hole. But, if ppl say ancients are advanced as they say. Then, it shouldn't be a surprize that there's a universal translator automatically running. I mean, look at startrek, they didn't need to [except when the federation just started, universal translator were inadequate, techno wise]

Any how, what I dont understand the is transport ship, being bombarded, they know for sure that there are wraiths all over the place, and for some reason, they used a transport ship to transport ppl from place to place.

I like how the episode went actually, I loved how everything has flown to the right places.

Hopefully, there will be future episodes, where it could tell us more about the saga. Such as the great alliance with the nox, furlings, ancients, asgards, and whatnot. I love episodes that tells stories about stargate, and it's series. It makes everything rightfully fall into place!

This episode spoiled most of stargate for me...I'm surprised I'm the only one to think this.

After 8 Seasons of SG1 + Atlantis of building the ancients up to be such an advanced race..they are just a bunch of assclows. They remind me so much of the Tollan with their smug attitude and non-interference policy, they need to take a page out of the asgard book.

All the non-interference crap they spout is a bit old when all the threats to earth are situations they caused or failed to deal with:

- Leaving Stargates for Goa'uld to enslave humans
- Letting Anubis get their technology
- Seeding Pegasus then failing to protect it from the Wraith

and we needed to clean up all of their mess...

They didnt strike me as an enlightened and advanced race in this episode, they seemed petty, small-minded, arrogant and cowardly.

Its lucky that there was a 2nd evolution of their race, cause the first were a bunch of losers.

All in all, the ancients (with the exception of the Scientist which reminded me of Mckay) were a huge let down.

(sorry to anyone this upsets, Im just really disappointed with stargate at the moment)

Hehe yea and they are not very clever aswell. I mean come on you are going back to your homeplanet after being away for miljons of years and what do they bring with them? Some bags, I mean come on take a few puttlejumpers and some power supply units to rebuild your civilation. BUT it is interesting to see that alot of ancients still made it back to earth so it is likely / possible they could still live on earth (that might be a nice twist ).

I absolutely loved this episode. I had a feeling Weir would finally pick up speed judging from the last couple episodes and yes - she gets a whole episode revolving around her.

The scene of them hearing the transport being shot down was chilling enough IMO, I didn't feel the need for visuals...

The Ancients were a bit different than I expected but I don't feel it spoiled anything...SG-1 has become a real mess story-wise anyway, so this doesn't change much for me.

They're still humans in many ways, after all. The first evolution was a bunch of losers? You consider "us" in reality a successful race?

I think from what we have seen in Stargate we can say we are very successful:

- We dont make a mess then leave someone else to clean it up
- We help our allies when they are threatened (and prevail)
- We help the many people's throughout the galaxy who are an offshoot of our own race
- We dont run at the first sign of trouble
- Hold our own against foes with superior tech and numbers on a regular basis

The ancients however:

- Make huge screw ups and leave it to us to sort it
. Leaving Stargate network making it easy for goa'uld to enslave humans
. Letting Anubis have access to ancient knowledge and weapons
. Allow the Wraith to terrorise countless worlds which they had a duty to protect
- Dont help races because it would be considered "interfering"
- Dont help us (an offshoot of their race)
- Abandon an entire galaxy, abandon their city and run back to earth

I think we can safely say they are Losers with a capital L!

Their tech is the only impressive thing about them...however, im surprised such an incapable race survived long enough to reach it.

I just wished their race was as impressive as their technology but they were found lacking in that area in my opinion, they didnt seem to me like a race who have grown wise from millions of years of civilisation.

I do not think that you guys see the problem in this. If you watch enough sci-fi, you will understand why interferance is actually a bad thing. There are lots of episodes esp startrek [voyager, enterprise], where people interfere and actually have no consequences.

First of all, Tollana's reason that they didn't help earth, was not only because they were arrogant, was also because, earth was not as advanced as they were. Watch the episode again, and they said that they have learned from their mistakes from sharing technos with other worlds, and end up destroying themselves.

Didn't you watch the Episode for SG-1 [ cant remember], but the plot is, that.. they found the harcisist, and Daniel had the knowledge to defend earth. Instead of defending earth, the def mechanism was instead targetted to the ppl of Russia. Now, look at that episode and see the effects of 'new' technology, that could potentially do a lot of dmg.

Now, imagine the ancients are these advanced race they claim to be, and they have impressive techno. That would end up eliminating the earthlings. If the ancients cant beat em with their tech, how could we do? [watch atlantis! ]

Time travel phenomenon
There are lots of sci-fi that tries to defy time travelling. There are lots of possibilities that if you interfere with something, you could ruin everything. Although, most ep about time travel, it always turns out right. but what if it doesn't. do u see my point?

anyhow, i think your expectations of the ancients is too much, they have disappointed you in a way.

Uh, you have flaws on your comment. We dont know anything about the ancients, except that, we know where they stayed, and that fact that they fought the wraiths and lost. You dont know the reason, why they seem weak.

Stargate was not only for their benefit, it was supposed to unite the galaxy. I remember an episode about this. I cant seem to remember, if someone could clarify it for you.

You dont know anything about ANUBIS. you only know that anubis is a gua'old leader, and he leads an army, and is one of the stronger goau'ld.

and for the rest, i think you are biased. [very in this case]

They seem desperate when u look at the episode, Atlantis did not look like there were lots of ppl. soo many reasons for that. and i cant start making up one, cuz i have no reference.

They abandoned the galaxy- yea, so? if you know u are losing, woulnd't u abandon?

I was speaking of us in reality, but nevermind...I've never understood how people refer to "us" in fiction.

Either way...
- We dont make a mess then leave someone else to clean it up

Uhh...Aren't you forgetting the Ancients died out because of a disease and ascended out of necessity? Who knows what they found out when they were ascended. Read my post in the last episode about why or how it could be quite possible for them to not want to interfere.

- We help our allies when they are threatened (and prevail)

Same here. We know of no example of this not occuring during the Ancient's prime. As I said above there are many possible reasons why the ascended Ancients won't help us.

- We help the many people's throughout the galaxy who are an offshoot of our own race

Once again, same here. Besides, we're using their technology to do so.

- We dont run at the first sign of trouble

You call their last stand against the Wraith, after being overrun and retreating...running at the FIRST sign of trouble? Uh-huh.

- Hold our own against foes with superior tech and numbers on a regular basis

With plenty of dumb luck and once again, mostly using ACQUIRED and not self-developed technology. We never would have come this far with P-90's and nuclear bombs.

The only single point I agree with is the fact that they didn't stop Anubis when he was using Ancient secrets and tapping into the ascended "side".

This post has been edited by Drizzt's Syn: Dec 7th 2004, 7:58 PM

This episode explained how the wraith could defeat a race this powerful. There are simply too many of them.
Like killerbees one on one a human is far superior but they are rarely alone.

So when the entire wraith population (if they still are as many) awakens they?ll be in trouble. We also know the wraith used a peacetalk meeting as a war opportunity so they want fall for that after old-weir told the SG team about this. But now they?ll have ZPM if they can find them and if they still work.


Would have liked this as a double episode:

First episode:
We see them come to Atlantis (fans begin to wonder if this is an old episode then realize the changes?but not know why) play out the disaster in full. Compartments fill up people die some running and screaming. And leave with a cliffhanger when they take off and leave the other to die. (People/fans start freaking and speculating what has happened and why)

Second episode: They find Dr.Weir and we get the story how it happened and timetravel bla bla bla.


This post has been edited by anja: Dec 7th 2004, 8:17 PM

[COLOR=green]My favorite part was when major shephard said not to meant a nice delorean

The fact that they built the stargates in our galaxy that helped the Goa'uld enslave their own ancestors, us, seems like interference in and of itself. It would have been nice of the Ancients to try and at least prevent the Goa'uld from using the SG network after they realized they were expediting their attempted enslavement of humanity.

Great episode. Weir definately has a thing for "John". Atlantis & SG-1 spoilers:

Just the Americans.

Forgot to mention I loved the bit with McKay doing a little vicarious apartment hunting through Sheppard at the beginning. Something like "A balcony would be nice but I'm not married to it."

Hmmm - fourthing that notion... Oh, dear - If Weir keeps that way, she might actually start growing on me *shudders*
Also nice to see the way the writers already set in motions things for the season finale. Good thing they didn't seem to dare do in SG1 season 1 (well, that and a sesne of humour...)

Oh, the timing, the timing. The look on McKay's face when he answered "yes" to Sheppard's comment about flux capacitor. Also the entire "talking about ultimate failure" arguement... classic, these two fighting over who got who dead...

Yeah, I was also somewhat bothered by that. I mean, huh? The Ancients are supposed to be a super-advanced race, they act just like us confused humans. I don't care about the non inteference bit, it makes sense in a way, but pre-ascended Ancients in this episode definitely didn't act like I would expect the Gate builders to act. It would have been better to keep the Anceints' lives a mystery, seeing living legends always ruins it when you discover they're not a legend after all

This post has been edited by Pitry: Dec 8th 2004, 4:19 AM

Maybe 'cause a transport ship with over 300 people can't fit through a stargate?

The girlie one was nice...

I suspect they didn't show us the big ships so that they can do that in a later episode, without wasting too much new information in one episode, if you know what I mean?

adam.