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awwww you jelous he had a good chance of scoring and you have none? lol

This episode turned my sights onto Dr. Beckett. Infact, the Doc is just a Scottish Dr. Fraiser! lol! I kinda found it strange thought that that whole planet practically voted to kill themselves. Not to mention how it ended. You always expect them to win..... but this time they lost in another way.

Okay, watched this episode and really really need to get something off my chest.... <breathing>

What is with Major Sheppard's hair !!! He's supposed to be an officer and a gentlemen for crying out loud. What's with the "just got out of bed" hairstyle ! No way would that be considered acceptible by military standards. no no no... how did the makeup department let him go on to the set with out dragging a comb through that mop ?

Oh, that was just soooo distracting. It made me nutso ! <breathing>

Okay, that's out of my system, on the whole this wasn't a bad episode. In general, I thought it was a really good showcase for Carson Beckett. Who is really growing on me as a character. And I am terribly disappointed that he is still NOT in the opening credits!

But, I believe what disappointed me was the story. Not that it was a bad one. No, the problem is that it's a story that I've already seen before... example, it reminded me of the Stargate episodes "Past and Present" and "Cure". Didn't Daniel fall in love with Linea the same way Beckett was falling for the Doctor (forgot her name) ? So, you've got a lesser evolved society that's created a serum that might be able to save their people from extinction. Sure sounds similar to me.

Also, the title "Poisoning the Well" was a give away. How could you not know what was going to happen with a title like that ? It told the whole story. I thought so anyway. Because wasn't the whole point of innoculating the people with the serum to "poison the well" for the Wraiths ? Because that's what happened. Not only did it protect some of the people from the Wraiths, it also created the poison to kill them. Of course, we don't know how that serum would work on the humans at Atlantis or Teyla's people.

But, kinda bummed they off'd Steve. That was too bad. Was being to enjoy having him in lockup. yet, you sort of figured that once they found the correct protein sequence that they'd need to test it out and Steve just happened to be in the wrong place and the wrong time.

so... all in all, it wasn't a bad episode, I'm just disappointed it wasn't an original story.

my favorite scene ? it has to be when they bring the good doctor in the puddle jumper through the gate to the facility. there they are walking down the corridor when they start making the Dr McCoy (ST) references. Loved the line "He's Dr McCoy in real life." couldn't help but start laughing at that. Beckett sure seems alot like him. You know, competent doctor who hates having his molecules scattered across the universe.

Really enjoying Beckett and McKay so far. Having doubts about Dr Weir. Will like Major Sheppard more once he does something with his hair.

This post has been edited by CitizenK: Aug 23rd 2004, 9:27 PM

Personally, I love the "just got out of bed" hairstyle.
It's so easy to do!

It seems like Sheppard borrowed too much from Weir and McKay's personalities this episode. I can understand the good doctor being upset (the "do no harm" scene) but Sheppard's attitude was uncalled for.

It's true that he isn't the seasoned veteran that O'Neill is, but his disbelief of their "by any means" solution was well... unbelieveable. Anyone who has studied history and particularly military history would find many similar instances where a culture chose a course that would reduce it or even destroy it, rather than submit to a more horrible fate.

Frankly, I think it was the SG Team that made the wrong decision. If this innoculation were passed on to any world that wants it, it would create indecision and doubt among the wraith. Something it looks like they have never had to deal with. And, because the deadly effects aren't instantaneous, their ships would be several days out from the planet when the deaths started.

Comment on its use as a weapon: Although it doesn't kill instantly, at least it might keep the bugger down after it's been hit once or twice.

Final note: Goodbye Steve. Next time they get a Wraith, I hope they name him Kenny. I'd love to see Sheppard and McKay torn to some researcher and say, "Hey, you killed Kenny. You B_____d!"

It seems they took their attitude because if they didn't the series would be over too fast.
They have a viable means of defence from culling from the wraith, let the various worlds decide if they want to take the chance on using it.
Or, how about the good doctor do some more work and try to make a version that doesn't kill half the people who try it!

It just seems they took the easy way out, they had written themselves into a corner as it were.

Ah, but here's the point, the Haukin (sp?) have a viable defense against culling from the Wraith. Technically, we don't know if that serum will work on "any" human. We can't assume that all the human species in the universe are the same. There could/should be differences. So, there is no way to know (without proper testing) if the serum will have the same effects if used by the SGA. As it was, the serum killed 50% of the Haukin people.

I have to agree with Beckett, I don't know if the cost was worth it or not. But, I think given time, Beckett probably could find a way to create a serum that would have a lower morality rate.

That's one of the problems I had with this story... once again, it got wrapped up way too neatly and again... once the damage was done to that society, what did the SGA do ??? they left. They left exactly the same way they left in Childhood's End.

so far, they haven't left a "team" to help deal with the repercussions. Which is what they should do. They should have left another medical team to help those people. But, no... they left them on their own. and that is so wrong on so many different levels.

The writers really need to deal with some of the moral implications they've been hinting at instead of skirting the issues. now, that has been really bugging me about this show. the way they avoid dealing with serious issues.

First off, I agree about McKay's hair. It's too hollywood, not military. However, as long as he acts like a miliitary man, I'll let it go. Does anyone know what his accent is? What part of the US I guess.

NO they don't. They have a viable defense against FEEDING. The next time the wraith arrive, after a few of their people die, they will nuke the planet to prevent the drug from spreading. So instead of the Hoffans getting culled, they'll be exterminated.

HOPEFULLY Dr. Beckett's only job now is to work on this serem, lowering the mortality rate. Does the atlantis team have it?

[Q]If this innoculation were passed on to any world that wants it, it would create indecision and doubt among the wraith.[/Q]


Not really: They'd just kill EVERYONE on the Planet. I mean, this innoculation doesn't prevent against tactical nukes launched from space, does it?

[Q}o, there is no way to know (without proper testing) if the serum will have the same effects if used by the SGA. As it was, the serum killed 50% of the Haukin people.[/Q]

But the small Atlantis team hardly has the resources to devote to researching the compatibility with the various human races of the world, and it'd be extremly difficult to test. And killin 50% of all people given to it...cure is worse than the disease.

[]But, I think given time, Beckett probably could find a way to create a serum that would have a lower morality rate.[/Q]

Well, IRL it would probably take many years, and thats with a ton of funding and researching and a ton of people.
One man...It'd be near impossible.

[Q]once the damage was done to that society, what did the SGA do ??? they left. They left exactly the same way they left in Childhood's End.[/Q]

In Childhoods End their socieyt was changed for the better. They didnt have to stay and "fix" anything because there was nothing to fix.
In this ep, there was quite a bit that went wrong.

It was an okay episode I liked the interacion btwn dr becket and allisson hossack character. But Mckay is getting to be an ass again, I was starting to like him, now im yoyoing.
Oh yes, we must tell them that it was our fault for awakening the wraith but shhhh, lets not tell the other people we had taken their only defense against the wraith(childhoods end) from them and then returned it and f*cked it up. I cant believe he even dared to say thaty to Sheppard. What a hipocrite

Help...Friday came and went...I thought SG1:8x07 and SGA:1x07 would be repeated tonight. Can't find them.

I'm on DirectTV east coast with local. Does anyone know if those eps are being shown again before this coming Friday?

Alice

Off topic:

Whos "Jeff Webber"?

He's a character that RDA played on General Hospital

Oh! I watch that show (which might explain why I, surprisingly enough, gave Affinity a more positive review than most people).

But I've never seen O'Neill in it.

okay, so, technically, what went on in abu-g'reib prison in iraq is okay, cos iraq hasn't adopted the geneva convention, and they used to do it too?... the geneva convention, while there to make sure the people who signed it don't get tortured, experimented on and whatnot while being in jail, is also one thing to keep our humanity. it's a half-arsed morality to say you can do X in one sentient being and not another. your hukanity and morality aren't jugded by the way you treat your friends, it's by the way you treat your enemies.

..and the faqct the atlantis team is on a differnet galaxy dpesn't change a thing. they're not there to start a human civilisation from scratch. they're there to study with the hope they're coming back to earth at some point.

as for the episode... well. the writers did their own choice when they decided that unlike sg1, there isn't going to be a humanistic character in atlantis. (funny that the humanistic character is in the military-based enviornment, while the civilian has a very military-headed civilian personal...). actually while i recognised the dilemma i didn't expect any of the caracters to throw in the geneva convention - and defintiely not to be dismissed so fast. the character of weir - not the acterss - seemed to bring the subject up only "for the record", ie yeah yeah we considered this. if th point of the writers was to show her as a moral person, they failed.... especially if you compare this to various sg1 episodes, where even jack who doesn't usually have moral problems such as these objected to this spirit. as for beckett, i would have expected him to leave the experiment a lot sooner than he did, but, oh well... it would have been better if they avoided that mention altogether, dedicated to their decision not to throw this kind of a moral dilemma into atlantis, and kept with the "but yer getting them all killed!" dilemma, which wasn't a dilemma at all, really, because all the characters we're supposed to feel about never really had a dilemma.

don't get me wrong, the episode waas very good, a lot better than this week's sg1, but the writers shoudl realise that they're no longer writing military personal. it's a different set of morals, differnet conducts of behaviour and different priorities. you can't have carter's blind following of orders even though she completely disagrees with them. these - with the exception of sheppard and ford - are not people that re going to be satisfied by an "order". but then again, we still have 13 more episodes that might offer character development... maybe teyla and weir would stop having the character depth of an extermely small sheet of paper

This post has been edited by Pitry: Aug 25th 2004, 2:09 AM

You either need a dictionary or some typing lessons. Both are fairly cheap.

I was kind of confused about the episode- until Dr. Beckett showed surprise that the serum actually killed the Wraith, I thought that was what it did all along. Producers could have made that a little more clear. About the Geneva convention, I don't know too much about it, so I'll leave the "legality" of the issues to people better qualified to talk about it. However, I have no moral objection to weapons testing on the Wraith, especially if it involves a possible cure. I view the Wraith as a disease, nothing more than a sentient form of bacteria or virus. Like today's islamic jihadists, they're not going to be impressed with our sensitivity; they're just going to take advantage of it. When it comes down to the justice of man, Hammurabi said it best. An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth. Anything else is unfair.

As far as the innoculation goes, though, the Hoffans(?) failed to realize that while their serum might win them a battle, it would surely cost them the war. Strategically, they achieved nothing besides becoming the top target on the Wraith's most wanted list. "Victory at any cost" is the only way to ensure the future, but the Hoffans goofed. If all the Hoffans die in a Wraith orbital bombardment, the last ditch defense is lost for the rest of the galaxy. Swimming in a river of stink with no floaties on...

Common sense and re-reading my post will show it's the later, not the former. I'll stick to typing slower and general pondering on the pointlessness of starting a post with that comment, if you don't mind..

Forgive me for paraphrising, I don't remember the exact wording... but:
"and eye for an eye would get the whole world blind" ~Gandhi.

This post has been edited by Pitry: Aug 26th 2004, 10:54 AM

This is the best episode of Atlantis so far, IMO. I enjoyed the plot and the character development. The few nitpicks I had are already mentioned by MYOB and I agree with ColonelJackO'NeillRocks that Weir's character development didn't move forward in this epiosde. The producers could have left her out of this episode with no loss of storyline.

I thought that the Hoffans were a little too eager to try the "vaccine", especially when they seemed to be such a patient race - meticulously recording each generation's work and taking hundreds of years to develop the serum until SG-A came alone.

I'm sure there is a vote somewhere about how we feel about killing off Steve the Wraith. I'm going to go look for that. Steve's arrogance about the Wraith's vengeance on the humans was starting to wear thin on me, so the shock on his face when he realized he was dying was sweet revenge.

Anyway, it was a good show. I hope to see more episodes of this caliber.

TauJin

No, it doesn't surprize me that the Haukin (sp ?) wanted to try the vaccine so quickly. It makes sense really. Dr Beckett provided them with the scientific breakthrough they need to synthesize it. They didn't know when or if the Wraiths would be returning. And considering how bad the cullings had been in past for their people, it was important for them to see that this vaccine worked. So, time was of the essence.

The problem is that they wouldn't wait for proper testing like Beckett wanted. They were too worried about the Wraiths coming to decimate their society. For them, the loss of 50% of their race was better than losing 75% of the race to culling. At least, that's how I saw how their people were reacting. Otherwise, why would all those people (97%) of them volunteer to take a drug that could kill them ?

still... not a bad episode... lots to talk about...

What you have said about the serum and how it might effect different humans in the galaxy is accurate. Just as today, there are certain ethnic cultures that are more susceptible to certain diseases and illnesses, this maybe the case for this serum. I agree thought that in time, Beckett might have been able to make it work. I agree, even though the Hallins voted to administer the serum, I think the cost was too high. But it is their culture, their people, and not us.

I was wondering the same thing,perhaps not all the gates have DHD's so it would be more practical to take a Puddle Jumper Ship so they can dial the gate from the cockpit to return home.Offworld Recon would be better with a ship as they can explore a wider area surrounding the gate than on foot.

That's a very good point. I hadn't noticed any DHDs lying around for the team to use in the Pegasus galaxy. I does seem like they have to use the puddlejumpers in order to access the various gates on planets they visit.

But, I guess that's how the writers are going to differentiate between the Pegasus galaxy in SGA and our galaxy in Stargate. At least, they are trying to show that the team is in a region of space radically different than our own.

it is true, it did seem like the most interesting stuff occurred to SG1 while walking to and from the gate. I mean, half the fun was watching them make a mad dash to the gate to escape from the Jaffa or even big honkin bugs.

And tehy can fly away quicker when an enemy shows up...and make a quick escape...thats a good idea actually, taking a puddlejumper...

anyhow, i was gonna say that this was one of my favourite episodes because Beckett was in it...they really need to give him more storylines..i want to see him at least once an episode...i wish that they'd made him a main character but he's just like teryl rothery/doctor fraiser

Richard Dean Anderson played Jeff Webber on General Hospital from about 1978-1982, something like that. It was just before he did MacGyver.