This episode made no sense at all. In the episode where Sheppard wanted to test the drug that made people immune to the wraith, Dr. Weir got all mad, and said that it was against the Geneva Convention. In this episode, she orders them to change a wraith into a human, and she doesn't see anything wrong with it.

I also thought that it was stupid that from what they said at the end of this episode, the season finale is going to be exactly the same as The Seige, except they can't cloak the city. Also, where did the alpha site come from? It seemed like they just pulled it out of nowhere, and had no explanation of when or where it was built.

This episode gets a 2/10.

Ethically, this was one of the worst things I've seen anyone on either SG shows do. I guess the Hippocratic Oath doesn't apply to the Pegasus Galaxy. I used to think that SG-1 had the market cornered on Let's Do Dumb Sh*t This Week ™, but the folks on Atlantis proved they can lay claims to the coveted title, too. I'm a scientist, and one of the first things they taught us in school was that you don't do crap like this. You don't do experiments on people (yes, the Wraith are people, too) without their prior consent. The medical and scientific communities learned this little lesson after WWII.

I only watched this episode for Connor Trinneer (whom, I adore), and I thought his acting was superb. He made Michael into someone you'd sympathize with, and considering how utterly deplorable the Atlantis folks' actions were, I didn't feel the least bit sorry when he went kamikaze on their asses. I kinda wished Teyla had been able to reason with Michael, but I'm also glad that he went back to his people, murderers though they are. No one had any right to experiment on him like that, I don't care how "bad" things get. If it's so bad, get the hell out of the Pegasus Galaxy. But OOPS! The Wraith probably know about Earth AND Atlantis now. Way to go, you compassionate assholes.

And I can't believe Teyla was the only one with serious doubts about all this. Beckett should have known better, and Weir should have never signed off on this "experiment." I can't get over how thoughtless they all were. That "this is war" crap is just being used as an excuse to commit crimes that are just as egregious as anything the Wraith have ever done.

als but its the human way... we all have such outstanding moral when we are all safe at home on out sofa.. but hte moment we find out something eat us for a living , all our morals go out the window...

humans are stupid.... we all have to live with it....

morals and ethics are a luxury that we can afford when we are doing well.... they are not a necessity

Wow, I thought that this was a great episode. Everything on this Sci-fi Firday rocked. Michael was sweet, and a kind person. Ronon got on my nerves ALOT! What the heck was wrong with him!? I know he absolutly hates the wraith, and he has the right to...but uh gosh...the way he was acting was just like a wraith. Arrogant, aggressive, my goodness... Weird Ronon.


Teyla was awesome in this episode, she is so kind to want to be a friend of a former wraith. After all she has gone through, she still has kindess in her heart.


Weir and Sheppard were not in it that much, but when they were I enjoyed them. Mckay was great, and so was Beckett.


9/10

i did like this episode. it raised some really good ethical questions
i thought Connor Trinneer was reallly good as Michael; i really felt for him when he first found out he was a wraith. i definitely think that whole experiment was just wrong, doomed from the start. they never should have done that.
i dont think ronan was too aggressive, i think he was rightfully concerned about the fact that there was essentially a wraith loose in the city.

When a drug is created here it goes through tests in a lab then it gets to the point of where it has to be tested on humans. The retro virus must have reached the point of it having to be tested it on a wraith.
The wraith are culling world's, they have done gene therapy on humans eg Tayla's telepathic abilities and now they are trying to get to earth. The stakes have been upped so everything has to be done to save planets with humans on them.
They are not actually killing the wraith, they are trying to get rid of the wraiths need to feed on humans, but my moral question is who has the right to tell another being how to live. We accept animals killing or eating their young in nature, so is there any real difference in the wraith feeding on humans.

Another reason why micheal could have been moved to the alpha site is out of sight out of mind. If something should happen he was to be killed, but they weren?t prepared for just how much he was starting to remember or feel. As he said he always felt the hunger. What else could have been going on with him.

Michael now knows what it is like to be human and he could use this as a weapon.

maybe the wraith does not die, but his memories (his identity) is erased, and his body is completely changed. so he lost his body and also his identity.

in my interpretation that means that the original being was destroyed (killed)

(i understand that your opinion is basically the same as mine, only wanted to point out this minor issue)

in my interpretation that means that the original being was destroyed (killed)

(i understand that your opinion is basically the same as mine, only wanted to point out this minor issue)
[/quote]

Bastage! lol I know what you mean.
it's kinda like giving someone electric shock treatment, their personality is changed and some may say that is like killing a person. But there is also the side where the body is still alive.
Its a tough area to argue. A person is not charged with murder if they injure another to the point where their origional personality is completey destroyed.

I was really dissapointed in this episode. When I first heard about it, I thought it had the potential to be really good, but it ended up just sucking. bleh. And there wasn't very much Mckay in this episode he only got what? 2 lines, and then that scene in the cafeteria (ha, which I loved-- Mckay can't lie to save his soul). Ha! it's a connection No Mckay=bad episode ;)




ummm, yeah there is. There are instances all the time where we tell people how to live. Just because something is one culture's way of life doesn't make it right-- in some cultures fathers kill their children, people own slaves, young kids are used as cheep labor-- that's their way of life, but that doesn't make it right, and some would even say we have an obligation to stop them. Saying Atlantis can't use this drug is like saying a rabbit shouldn't learn how to run faster to avoid a fox because it's the fox's way of life to eat it. Frankly, if you were being fed on by a wraith, you would wish you had some sort of weapon or defence to use against him. I may not have liked this episode, but I don't see why people are making a big moral delema out of Atlantis's attempt to stop the Wraith from eating everyone in two galixies.

I knew from this forum that Michael was a Wraith. But I must say, even knowing that, I was looking for hints about it. I could find none. What I saw was, "somthing is not right, something is off." But no way did I get a feeling that he was a Wraith.

I love CT! He did a bang up job in this role. His acting was superb. Did anyone else pick up on the fact that when Michael did rebel and fight, he picked up a human weapon? And Shep and his men were using Wraith stunners. I thought that was a nice psyhological turn there.

I'm with Xay on this issue about them doing these medical experiments. It's wrong. Unfortunately, Weir and her people view them as animals, and nothing more. It's the same mentality that the Nazis had about the Jews. They are not human, so what?

Okay, the Wraith are going to kill them, but it doesn't give you the right to do what they did. I'm truly surprised that Beckett went along with this. Besides, even if it worked, which it appeared to, I'm with Ronon on this, they are still Wraith. That is not going to change.

So now Michael has the knowledge of Atlantis and they will be coming.

But it was a well written story and I did like it. I didn't see it as fluff or filler. Plus they finally gave Teyla something to do that wasn't fighting. They tapped into her Wraith connection because that is what Michael was able to pick up on.

since when is the earth-army's job to decide what is right and what is wrong?
i thought they are simply defending themselves.
this is a very very very big difference.

and...you are sure that everything we earthians do is right? what about the world wars? or problems regarding discriminations based on <insert random world like skin-color, religion>...was that all right?






they are not just stopping them. they are "changing" them...

i have nothing against inventing a chemical/biological weapon that KILLS them. they are at war, so soldiers kill soldiers. no problem.

but what i hate about this episode is that they hipocritically think/argue that they do something better, because they don't kill them, they just change them. they strip out the "evil" part, and leave in the "good" part. ?!?!?!?

but effectively they are killing them.

just think about it. what should be easier? :
a. find a chemical/biological weapon that kills wrait
b. find a chemical/biological weapon, that alters the wraiths body/mind into a human body/mind

i think #a is much easier to achieve.

so this is not about having a weapon to defend them. this is about respecting the life of intelligent beings.


so let me sum up this again:

fighting a war with the Wraith: ok
changing their race forcefully into something else: not ok

p.s: if Beckett&co thinks they are doing this right, why were Michael's memories erased/blocked? why were they hiding this information from Michael? why didn't they just explain it to him?

Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.....(asimov)

I dint Think he was a wraith that was a surprize to me. I liked this ep. I think it is building up to A big finally they are going to have to do something about atlantis eithere submerge it again wich rodney couldent do at the end of season one or they are going to have to move it in that case they will need two more zpm's dint sound like they could do it with two but the wraith are not going to fall for the same trick again. and they will move on atlantis fast to. This is going to be a good season finally.

i thought it was an ok episode...kind of dark though...kind of like a frankenstien type episode

concerning the ethical issue- if they used the retro virus on that girl wraith in the episode Instinct it would have been ethically fine because she wanted to be human and not feed on them. the episode said that when she was young she ate like a human and latter as she would age the aratis bug gene would have more of an influence on her and turn her fully into a wraith...and since when the wraith are fully grown they are basically pure evil and so thats why it would have been fine to use the retro virus on her when she was young because when she was young she was closer to being human.....the retrovirus didnt work on micheal because he was already a fully grown wraith and the aratis bug gene part of him had fully turned him into a fully grown wraith and made him pure evil and so he wasnt able to shake those wraith instints when he was human.

Now in Dr. Weirs mind and Dr. Beckette's i think they see the aratis bug gene as no different than a guald symbiote inside a human being becuase the aratis bugs long ago bit the humans and the changed the humans into the wraith. and so all they were trying to do was to get the evil bug gene out of micheal which is the same thing they were trying to do for that wraith girl in the episode Instinct....and so thats why i have a hard time seeing dr. weir and dr. beckette as the bad guys in this episode...alot of people said they were and i can understand that but they arent.

dr. beckett should have been spending his time perfecting that drug we saw in the episode called Poisoning the Well...because if wraiths cant feed on humans anymore they will become extinct or they will start feeding on something else like cows

The moral issue aside, this wasnt such a bad episode. IMO Teyla and Ronon were the only people on Atlantis that seemed to realise that transorming Michael into a Human was wrong. Like others have said, it suprises me how quickly Weir's moral stance could change given her reaction to McKay destroying a solar system in 'Trinity', yet it was ok for the Atlantis team to experiment on a Wraith.

One thing I noticed was that there must be a stylist in the city as they had time to give Michael highlights while he was unconscious.

This was a strange episode and not a very good one. All of the characters didn't seem to be themselves, except for Ronan, who doesn't do much anyway.

Killing the Wraith in war is one thing. But capturing one, experimenting on him, turning it into a human and then telling he's better off, is wrong and very arrogant.

I would have thought Becket and Weir would object to such action and at the very least, Sheppard and Teyla would question it. But no, Becket requested it and Weir gave it her full approval.

And then after Micheal escapes, they all sit around and come to the realization that the Wraith will not only know about Atlantis, but will also have valuable intel from Micheal.
Luckily, Sheppard comes up with the revelation, "We're going to need more firepower." Surely this should have been the plan from the begining?

Yeah, I also thought this episode seemed a little out of whack. Also, I guessed about 15 minutes into the show that Michael had been changed into a human from a wraith using the retrovirus. The way everyone was acting really shifty around Michael was a big clue, as was the wraith dreams and the fact that he told McKay he recognised the Wraith schematics he had on his computer. Maybe these were deliberately placed clues.

I am not going to go into my views on the ethical and moral issues raised in this episode (loads of people seemed have got it covered) cos I am on my lunch at work so don't have the time.

chelle_b

I thought Shepard was told that the that the ZMP had been depleted in 'Coup d' Etat'?? 1 of the Genii had found in the past & had placed it into storage.

It was. He lied when he said it was the one that the Brotherhood took. Even if they had a second ZPM they still may not be able to submerge the city. They have no idea how much energy it takes and McKay said himself that he hadno idea how the city was submerged in the first place.

Did anyone else find it strange how Michael knew exactly how to use the laptop??

This post has been edited by shogi: Mar 2nd 2006, 12:25 PM

Ane how he knew what a cd was and where to put it.

You raise a good point. Maybe the wraith have their own versions of laptops?


That can be easily discovered just by looking at what other people do with those objects. Alot easier than figuring out how to work a laptop without previous exposure.

What was it about 2 days on atlantis being "human" and becoming very handy at using a laptop etc......
Better than people putting phone cards into the floppy drive to get onto the internet i suppose.

As far as the moral issues in this episode, in the March/April SG/Atlantis, Tori is quoted as questioning what Weir did in this one. She said Weir would never have made any decision like this in season 1. She says that this is a definite change for her character. She hopes that this darker side to Weir will be addressed in season 3. She said that there is no one on Atlantis that she can freely speak to about some of the decisions that she has to make simply because she is the leader and making those decisions. I guess it's lonely at the top.

yeah her character sure has gotten darker this season....i mean in the episode critical mass she approved the use of torture....the season 1 weir i dont think would have done that (i think she use to be a hippy)....it was interesting she let ronon do the torture since he is an alien and not part of the geneva convention and so he wouldnt get in trouble and the SGA crew could all deny they approved it and say ronon did it on his own